It seems that there is much less activity here lately. Are folks moving
elsewhere?

dick

On Dec 19, 11:25 pm, Dick Heckman > wrote:
> It seems that there is much less activity here lately. Are folks moving
> elsewhere?
>
> dick

If they are anything like me Dick, it's the Christmas preparations,
finishing off work etc. Also with less fruit coming into season I
guess less wine is being made and less questions being asked
therefore. I did wonder myself though...

Jim

I check in every day - but don't have much need to start threads this
time of year; last year's grapes are now aging into wine in the cellar,
the vines are all dormant, and there isn't really much going on in the
winery. A little prep for some spring bottling, but that's about it.

Meanwhile - enjoying the wines from '05 and '06 right now!




On 2007-12-19 15:25:39 -0800, Dick Heckman > said:

> It seems that there is much less activity here lately. Are folks
> moving elsewhere?
>
> dick

Dick Heckman wrote:
> It seems that there is much less activity here lately. Are folks moving
> elsewhere?

I'm going to FL, USA for the Christmas Holiday. Did a second racking of
'07 Zin/Alicante last week - about 80 gals. Bottled 12 cases of '06
Shiraz/Zin/Alicante blend on Monday. Transferred 120L of '07 into
French Oak. Bringing down some '03 Cab/Zin,'04 Cab/Zin/Carignane,'05
Cab/Zin, and '06 Zin/Alicante for my 86 year old Dad for Christmas.

Steve

On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman > wrote:
> It seems that there is much less activity here lately. Are folks moving
> elsewhere?
>
> dick

This is the original winemaking newsgroup, it's been around for close
to 15 years. To be honest, it's not only spawned a lot of other
groups but most questions have been asked and answered many times.
The groups was much more active years ago, but that is where a lot of
questions got answered. I might be willing to bet there are close to
a thousand posts on cleaning/ removing labels from bottles for
example. There really aren't that many ways to do that and I can
guarantee all of them have already been explored here.

I'm not saying it's outlived it's usefulness, just that there are
other groups out there now answering all these questions, again. So
'dilution' is occurring...

Joe

On Dec 20, 4:46*am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman > wrote:
>
> > It seems that there is much less activity here lately. *Are folks moving
> > elsewhere?
>
> > dick
>
> This is the original winemaking newsgroup, it's been around for close
> to 15 years. *To be honest, it's not only spawned a lot of other
> groups but most questions have been asked and answered many times.
> The groups was much more active years ago, but that is where a lot of
> questions got answered. *I might be willing to bet there are close to
> a thousand posts on cleaning/ removing labels from bottles for
> example. *There really aren't that many ways to do that and I can
> guarantee all of them have already been explored here.
>
> I'm not saying it's outlived it's usefulness, just that there are
> other groups out there now answering all these questions, again. *So
> 'dilution' is occurring... *
>
> Joe

I agree with Joe.

You can search almost any wine making question within this group and
you will find pages of relative info. I search first and if I don't
find the info/help I need, then I will post a question. Why post if
the info you need has been discussed multiple times. I think some of
the folks that have been around this site for awhile probably get
tired of the same old questions all the time. That said, this is a
great group and a wealth of information and if you don't like to
search and would rather post questions, I bet you will still get some
discussion.

Happy Holidays!

Jesse

Exactly, People have learned how to do searches. I assume that is the
reason also. It's very rare a "new" question is posted and just as
rare that a "new" answer will be given.

Bob

On Dec 27, 5:41*pm, wrote:
> On Dec 20, 4:46*am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman > wrote:
>
> > > It seems that there is much less activity here lately. *Are folks moving
> > > elsewhere?
>
> > > dick
>
> > This is the original winemaking newsgroup, it's been around for close
> > to 15 years. *To be honest, it's not only spawned a lot of other
> > groups but most questions have been asked and answered many times.
> > The groups was much more active years ago, but that is where a lot of
> > questions got answered. *I might be willing to bet there are close to
> > a thousand posts on cleaning/ removing labels from bottles for
> > example. *There really aren't that many ways to do that and I can
> > guarantee all of them have already been explored here.
>
> > I'm not saying it's outlived it's usefulness, just that there are
> > other groups out there now answering all these questions, again. *So
> > 'dilution' is occurring... *
>
> > Joe
>
> I agree with Joe.
>
> You can search almost any wine making question within this group and
> you will find pages of relative info. I search first and if I don't
> find the info/help I need, then I will post a question. Why post if
> the info you need has been discussed multiple times. I think some of
> the folks that have been around this site for awhile probably get
> tired of the same old questions all the time. That said, this is a
> great group and a wealth of information and if you don't like to
> search and would rather post questions, I bet you will still get some
> discussion.
>
> Happy Holidays!
>
> Jesse

On Dec 27, 10:45 pm, wrote:
> Exactly, People have learned how to do searches. I assume that is the
> reason also. It's very rare a "new" question is posted and just as
> rare that a "new" answer will be given.
>
> Bob
>
> On Dec 27, 5:41 pm, wrote:
>
> > On Dec 20, 4:46 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman > wrote:
>
> > > > It seems that there is much less activity here lately. Are folks moving
> > > > elsewhere?
>
> > > > dick
>
> > > This is the original winemaking newsgroup, it's been around for close
> > > to 15 years. To be honest, it's not only spawned a lot of other
> > > groups but most questions have been asked and answered many times.
> > > The groups was much more active years ago, but that is where a lot of
> > > questions got answered. I might be willing to bet there are close to
> > > a thousand posts on cleaning/ removing labels from bottles for
> > > example. There really aren't that many ways to do that and I can
> > > guarantee all of them have already been explored here.
>
> > > I'm not saying it's outlived it's usefulness, just that there are
> > > other groups out there now answering all these questions, again. So
> > > 'dilution' is occurring...
>
> > > Joe
>
> > I agree with Joe.
>
> > You can search almost any wine making question within this group and
> > you will find pages of relative info. I search first and if I don't
> > find the info/help I need, then I will post a question. Why post if
> > the info you need has been discussed multiple times. I think some of
> > the folks that have been around this site for awhile probably get
> > tired of the same old questions all the time. That said, this is a
> > great group and a wealth of information and if you don't like to
> > search and would rather post questions, I bet you will still get some
> > discussion.
>
> > Happy Holidays!
>
> > Jesse

I kind of agree and kind of don't.

Many people use the news-reader portion of outlook express. Unless
their newsgroup provider has unlimited retention and was there before
the start of this wine-making group they wouldn't be able to find the
messages in their news-client. They might not realise (as I didn't
till the middle of this year) that they could search the entire (I
think) archive on Google. Also, different practices and materials and
equipment arises from time to time, so it is on occasion worth
revisiting.

I agree in general though

On Dec 27, 9:55*pm, jim > wrote:
> On Dec 27, 10:45 pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Exactly, People have learned how to do searches. I assume that is the
> > reason also. *It's very rare a "new" question is posted and just as
> > rare that a "new" answer will be given.
>
> > Bob
>
> > On Dec 27, 5:41 pm, wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 20, 4:46 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman > wrote:
>
> > > > > It seems that there is much less activity here lately. *Are folks moving
> > > > > elsewhere?
>
> > > > > dick
>
> > > > This is the original winemaking newsgroup, it's been around for close
> > > > to 15 years. *To be honest, it's not only spawned a lot of other
> > > > groups but most questions have been asked and answered many times.
> > > > The groups was much more active years ago, but that is where a lot of
> > > > questions got answered. *I might be willing to bet there are close to
> > > > a thousand posts on cleaning/ removing labels from bottles for
> > > > example. *There really aren't that many ways to do that and I can
> > > > guarantee all of them have already been explored here.
>
> > > > I'm not saying it's outlived it's usefulness, just that there are
> > > > other groups out there now answering all these questions, again. *So
> > > > 'dilution' is occurring... *
>
> > > > Joe
>
> > > I agree with Joe.
>
> > > You can search almost any wine making question within this group and
> > > you will find pages of relative info. I search first and if I don't
> > > find the info/help I need, then I will post a question. Why post if
> > > the info you need has been discussed multiple times. I think some of
> > > the folks that have been around this site for awhile probably get
> > > tired of the same old questions all the time. That said, this is a
> > > great group and a wealth of information and if you don't like to
> > > search and would rather post questions, I bet you will still get some
> > > discussion.
>
> > > Happy Holidays!
>
> > > Jesse
>
> I kind of agree and kind of don't.
>
> Many people use the news-reader portion of outlook express. *Unless
> their newsgroup provider has unlimited retention and was there before
> the start of this wine-making group they wouldn't be able to find the
> messages in their news-client. *They might not realise (as I didn't
> till the middle of this year) that they could search the entire (I
> think) archive on Google. *Also, different practices and materials and
> equipment arises from time to time, so it is on occasion worth
> revisiting.
>
> I agree in general though - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Oh yeah, you can get the original posts from when they started the
group in Usenet back in 1993 on Google's archives. I probably have at
least 50 books on wine and winemaking but probably learned more here
on this group. You can never beat first hand experience. Google is
amazing, you can read 100 year old winemaking books now if you want
to...

Joe

Joe Sallustio wrote:
> On Dec 27, 9:55 pm, jim > wrote:
>> On Dec 27, 10:45 pm, wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Exactly, People have learned how to do searches. I assume that is the
>>> reason also. It's very rare a "new" question is posted and just as
>>> rare that a "new" answer will be given.
>>> Bob
>>> On Dec 27, 5:41 pm, wrote:
>>>> On Dec 20, 4:46 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman > wrote:
>>>>>> It seems that there is much less activity here lately. Are folks moving
>>>>>> elsewhere?
>>>>>> dick
>>>>> This is the original winemaking newsgroup, it's been around for close
>>>>> to 15 years. To be honest, it's not only spawned a lot of other
>>>>> groups but most questions have been asked and answered many times.
>>>>> The groups was much more active years ago, but that is where a lot of
>>>>> questions got answered. I might be willing to bet there are close to
>>>>> a thousand posts on cleaning/ removing labels from bottles for
>>>>> example. There really aren't that many ways to do that and I can
>>>>> guarantee all of them have already been explored here.
>>>>> I'm not saying it's outlived it's usefulness, just that there are
>>>>> other groups out there now answering all these questions, again. So
>>>>> 'dilution' is occurring...
>>>>> Joe
>>>> I agree with Joe.
>>>> You can search almost any wine making question within this group and
>>>> you will find pages of relative info. I search first and if I don't
>>>> find the info/help I need, then I will post a question. Why post if
>>>> the info you need has been discussed multiple times. I think some of
>>>> the folks that have been around this site for awhile probably get
>>>> tired of the same old questions all the time. That said, this is a
>>>> great group and a wealth of information and if you don't like to
>>>> search and would rather post questions, I bet you will still get some
>>>> discussion.
>>>> Happy Holidays!
>>>> Jesse
>> I kind of agree and kind of don't.
>>
>> Many people use the news-reader portion of outlook express. Unless
>> their newsgroup provider has unlimited retention and was there before
>> the start of this wine-making group they wouldn't be able to find the
>> messages in their news-client. They might not realise (as I didn't
>> till the middle of this year) that they could search the entire (I
>> think) archive on Google. Also, different practices and materials and
>> equipment arises from time to time, so it is on occasion worth
>> revisiting.
>>
>> I agree in general though - Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Oh yeah, you can get the original posts from when they started the
> group in Usenet back in 1993 on Google's archives. I probably have at
> least 50 books on wine and winemaking but probably learned more here
> on this group. You can never beat first hand experience. Google is
> amazing, you can read 100 year old winemaking books now if you want
> to...
>
> Joe
>

I've just noticed that in the last year the post volume seemed to drop
pretty drastically. I've been lurking most of the time for quite a few
years and copying posts that I found valuable. I'm not all that
computer literate and never thought to search google. I just like to
see what folks are thinking about wine and winemaking from time to time.
I've made fruit wines when the fruit was available and I felt like it
for about 30 yrs. I've never worried about recipes etc other than
making sure I had a reasonable SG at start and a decent wine yeast.
I've never had a real failure.

I've planted a few vines now and in a couple of years maybe I'll have
some grape wines. The frost in the Southeast last spring knocked my
vines in a cocked hat and I'm almost starting over.

Thanks,

Dick

"Dick Heckman" > wrote in message
...
> Joe Sallustio wrote:
>> On Dec 27, 9:55 pm, jim > wrote:
>>> On Dec 27, 10:45 pm, wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Exactly, People have learned how to do searches. I assume that is the
>>>> reason also. It's very rare a "new" question is posted and just as
>>>> rare that a "new" answer will be given.
>>>> Bob
>>>> On Dec 27, 5:41 pm, wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 20, 4:46 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman > wrote:
>>>>>>> It seems that there is much less activity here lately. Are folks
>>>>>>> moving
>>>>>>> elsewhere?
>>>>>>> dick
>>>>>> This is the original winemaking newsgroup, it's been around for close
>>>>>> to 15 years. To be honest, it's not only spawned a lot of other
>>>>>> groups but most questions have been asked and answered many times.
>>>>>> The groups was much more active years ago, but that is where a lot of
>>>>>> questions got answered. I might be willing to bet there are close to
>>>>>> a thousand posts on cleaning/ removing labels from bottles for
>>>>>> example. There really aren't that many ways to do that and I can
>>>>>> guarantee all of them have already been explored here.
>>>>>> I'm not saying it's outlived it's usefulness, just that there are
>>>>>> other groups out there now answering all these questions, again. So
>>>>>> 'dilution' is occurring...
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>> I agree with Joe.
>>>>> You can search almost any wine making question within this group and
>>>>> you will find pages of relative info. I search first and if I don't
>>>>> find the info/help I need, then I will post a question. Why post if
>>>>> the info you need has been discussed multiple times. I think some of
>>>>> the folks that have been around this site for awhile probably get
>>>>> tired of the same old questions all the time. That said, this is a
>>>>> great group and a wealth of information and if you don't like to
>>>>> search and would rather post questions, I bet you will still get some
>>>>> discussion.
>>>>> Happy Holidays!
>>>>> Jesse
>>> I kind of agree and kind of don't.
>>>
>>> Many people use the news-reader portion of outlook express. Unless
>>> their newsgroup provider has unlimited retention and was there before
>>> the start of this wine-making group they wouldn't be able to find the
>>> messages in their news-client. They might not realise (as I didn't
>>> till the middle of this year) that they could search the entire (I
>>> think) archive on Google. Also, different practices and materials and
>>> equipment arises from time to time, so it is on occasion worth
>>> revisiting.
>>>
>>> I agree in general though - Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Oh yeah, you can get the original posts from when they started the
>> group in Usenet back in 1993 on Google's archives. I probably have at
>> least 50 books on wine and winemaking but probably learned more here
>> on this group. You can never beat first hand experience. Google is
>> amazing, you can read 100 year old winemaking books now if you want
>> to...
>>
>> Joe
>>
>
> I've just noticed that in the last year the post volume seemed to drop
> pretty drastically. I've been lurking most of the time for quite a few
> years and copying posts that I found valuable. I'm not all that computer
> literate and never thought to search google. I just like to see what
> folks are thinking about wine and winemaking from time to time. I've made
> fruit wines when the fruit was available and I felt like it for about 30
> yrs. I've never worried about recipes etc other than making sure I had a
> reasonable SG at start and a decent wine yeast. I've never had a real
> failure.
>
> I've planted a few vines now and in a couple of years maybe I'll have some
> grape wines. The frost in the Southeast last spring knocked my vines in a
> cocked hat and I'm almost starting over.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick

It's the newbies that keep this group going. All too often lately,
they are being told to "go get googled". Some interpret this as
the equivalent of "go get F***** ", and they take their questions
to friendlier places. I, for one, would like to see the use of
google as an answer be outlawed in this group !! (personal
opinion of one grouchy old fart)

Dick Heckman wrote:

> Joe Sallustio wrote:
>> On Dec 27, 9:55 pm, jim >
>> wrote:
>>> On Dec 27, 10:45 pm,
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Exactly, People have learned how to do
>>>> searches. I assume that is the
>>>> reason also. It's very rare a "new" question
>>>> is posted and just as rare that a "new"
>>>> answer will be given. Bob
>>>> On Dec 27, 5:41 pm,
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Dec 20, 4:46 am, Joe Sallustio
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> It seems that there is much less activity
>>>>>>> here lately. Are folks moving elsewhere?
>>>>>>> dick
>>>>>> This is the original winemaking newsgroup,
>>>>>> it's been around for close
>>>>>> to 15 years. To be honest, it's not only
>>>>>> spawned a lot of other groups but most
>>>>>> questions have been asked and answered many
>>>>>> times. The groups was much more active
>>>>>> years ago, but that is where a lot of
>>>>>> questions got answered. I might be willing
>>>>>> to bet there are close to a thousand posts
>>>>>> on cleaning/ removing labels from bottles
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> example. There really aren't that many
>>>>>> ways to do that and I can guarantee all of
>>>>>> them have already been explored here. I'm
>>>>>> not saying it's outlived it's usefulness,
>>>>>> just that there are
>>>>>> other groups out there now answering all
>>>>>> these questions, again. So
>>>>>> 'dilution' is occurring...
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>> I agree with Joe.
>>>>> You can search almost any wine making
>>>>> question within this group and you will find
>>>>> pages of relative info. I search first and
>>>>> if I don't find the info/help I need, then I
>>>>> will post a question. Why post if the info
>>>>> you need has been discussed multiple times.
>>>>> I think some of the folks that have been
>>>>> around this site for awhile probably get
>>>>> tired of the same old questions all the
>>>>> time. That said, this is a great group and a
>>>>> wealth of information and if you don't like
>>>>> to search and would rather post questions, I
>>>>> bet you will still get some discussion.
>>>>> Happy Holidays! Jesse
>>> I kind of agree and kind of don't.
>>>
>>> Many people use the news-reader portion of
>>> outlook express. Unless their newsgroup
>>> provider has unlimited retention and was there
>>> before the start of this wine-making group
>>> they wouldn't be able to find the
>>> messages in their news-client. They might not
>>> realise (as I didn't till the middle of this
>>> year) that they could search the entire (I
>>> think) archive on Google. Also, different
>>> practices and materials and equipment arises
>>> from time to time, so it is on occasion worth
>>> revisiting.
>>>
>>> I agree in general though - Hide quoted text
>>> -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Oh yeah, you can get the original posts from
>> when they started the group in Usenet back in
>> 1993 on Google's archives. I probably have at
>> least 50 books on wine and winemaking but
>> probably learned more here
>> on this group. You can never beat first hand
>> experience. Google is amazing, you can read
>> 100 year old winemaking books now if you want
>> to...
>>
>> Joe
>>
>
> I've just noticed that in the last year the post
> volume seemed to drop
> pretty drastically. I've been lurking most of
> the time for quite a few
> years and copying posts that I found valuable.
> I'm not all that
> computer literate and never thought to search
> google. I just like to see what folks are
> thinking about wine and winemaking from time to
> time.
> I've made fruit wines when the fruit was
> available and I felt like it
> for about 30 yrs. I've never worried about
> recipes etc other than making sure I had a
> reasonable SG at start and a decent wine yeast.
> I've never had a real failure.
>
> I've planted a few vines now and in a couple of
> years maybe I'll have
> some grape wines. The frost in the Southeast
> last spring knocked my vines in a cocked hat and
> I'm almost starting over.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dick

Hang in there Dick. I lost 90% of my fruiting
buds during the Easter week freezes but this was
a first time happening for me. The other
vineyards around here fared much better and it
was a vintage year. I think I am in my own
little micro climate (on a slope near a ravine)
Growing grapes can be very rewarding as well as
very frustrating at times but once the bug hits
you, you will enjoy.

frederick ploegman wrote:

>
> "Dick Heckman" > wrote
> in message
>
...
>> Joe Sallustio wrote:
>>> On Dec 27, 9:55 pm, jim
>>> > wrote:
>>>> On Dec 27, 10:45 pm,
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Exactly, People have learned how to do
>>>>> searches. I assume that is the
>>>>> reason also. It's very rare a "new"
>>>>> question is posted and just as rare that a
>>>>> "new" answer will be given. Bob
>>>>> On Dec 27, 5:41 pm,
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 20, 4:46 am, Joe Sallustio
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman
>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>> It seems that there is much less activity
>>>>>>>> here lately. Are folks moving
>>>>>>>> elsewhere?
>>>>>>>> dick
>>>>>>> This is the original winemaking newsgroup,
>>>>>>> it's been around for close
>>>>>>> to 15 years. To be honest, it's not only
>>>>>>> spawned a lot of other groups but most
>>>>>>> questions have been asked and answered
>>>>>>> many times. The groups was much more
>>>>>>> active years ago, but that is where a lot
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> questions got answered. I might be
>>>>>>> willing to bet there are close to a
>>>>>>> thousand posts on cleaning/ removing
>>>>>>> labels from bottles for
>>>>>>> example. There really aren't that many
>>>>>>> ways to do that and I can guarantee all of
>>>>>>> them have already been explored here. I'm
>>>>>>> not saying it's outlived it's usefulness,
>>>>>>> just that there are
>>>>>>> other groups out there now answering all
>>>>>>> these questions, again. So
>>>>>>> 'dilution' is occurring...
>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>> I agree with Joe.
>>>>>> You can search almost any wine making
>>>>>> question within this group and you will
>>>>>> find pages of relative info. I search first
>>>>>> and if I don't find the info/help I need,
>>>>>> then I will post a question. Why post if
>>>>>> the info you need has been discussed
>>>>>> multiple times. I think some of the folks
>>>>>> that have been around this site for awhile
>>>>>> probably get tired of the same old
>>>>>> questions all the time. That said, this is
>>>>>> a great group and a wealth of information
>>>>>> and if you don't like to search and would
>>>>>> rather post questions, I bet you will still
>>>>>> get some discussion. Happy Holidays! Jesse
>>>> I kind of agree and kind of don't.
>>>>
>>>> Many people use the news-reader portion of
>>>> outlook express. Unless their newsgroup
>>>> provider has unlimited retention and was
>>>> there before the start of this wine-making
>>>> group they wouldn't be able to find the
>>>> messages in their news-client. They might
>>>> not realise (as I didn't till the middle of
>>>> this year) that they could search the entire
>>>> (I
>>>> think) archive on Google. Also, different
>>>> practices and materials and equipment arises
>>>> from time to time, so it is on occasion worth
>>>> revisiting.
>>>>
>>>> I agree in general though - Hide quoted
>>>> text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>
>>> Oh yeah, you can get the original posts from
>>> when they started the group in Usenet back in
>>> 1993 on Google's archives. I probably have at
>>> least 50 books on wine and winemaking but
>>> probably learned more here
>>> on this group. You can never beat first hand
>>> experience. Google is amazing, you can read
>>> 100 year old winemaking books now if you want
>>> to...
>>>
>>> Joe
>>>
>>
>> I've just noticed that in the last year the
>> post volume seemed to drop
>> pretty drastically. I've been lurking most of
>> the time for quite a few
>> years and copying posts that I found valuable.
>> I'm not all that computer
>> literate and never thought to search google. I
>> just like to see what folks are thinking about
>> wine and winemaking from time to time. I've
>> made fruit wines when the fruit was available
>> and I felt like it for about 30
>> yrs. I've never worried about recipes etc
>> other than making sure I had a reasonable SG at
>> start and a decent wine yeast. I've never had a
>> real failure.
>>
>> I've planted a few vines now and in a couple of
>> years maybe I'll have some
>> grape wines. The frost in the Southeast last
>> spring knocked my vines in a cocked hat and I'm
>> almost starting over.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dick
>
> It's the newbies that keep this group going.
> All too often lately,
> they are being told to "go get googled". Some
> interpret this as the equivalent of "go get
> F***** ", and they take their questions
> to friendlier places. I, for one, would like to
> see the use of
> google as an answer be outlawed in this group !!
> (personal opinion of one grouchy old fart)

I AGREE 100%

One of the nice things about this news group is
that there are those of us out here will answer
questions - even though it has been asked many
times before. I hope we NEVER become like some
of the other newsgroups with answers like "Read
the FAQs" or "Google it". Sometimes the answer
to an old question can be such that it leads to
new understandings or brings up issues that a
plain "Search Google" does not reveal. For those
who find it irritating to see repeated questions
the answer is simple - just don't read them or
reply.

OTOH pointing a fellow to an endless wealth of information is no small
aid IMO. In fact one could argued more helpful than a quick one shot
answer. That might leave the helper feeling good about their deed,
but certainly the helpee is nowhere as educated than if directed to
the wealth of info available to them.

In additon to Lum's book and Keller's site:
http://www.geocities.com/lumeisenman/
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/

there's 2 amazing FAQ's one for wine making:
http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/alcohol/winemaking-faq

and one for grape growing:
http://vitfaq.vinic.com/gohome.html

And last but not leat the Advanced Seach feature for Usenet:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_se...e=UTF-8&hl=en&

Here is the accumulated knowledge of rcw, with detail knowledge and
EXPERIENCE in the specific and esoteric as well as detailed answers
for entry level and novice wine maker.

Frankly I think providing these resources to a novice is much more
valuable than the usual 'buy a kit and follow directions' advice.
Who's really dismissing the noobie here?

Steve
Oregon




On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:17:26 -0500, "Paul E. Lehmann"
> wrote:

>frederick ploegman wrote:

>>
>> It's the newbies that keep this group going.
>> All too often lately,
>> they are being told to "go get googled". Some
>> interpret this as the equivalent of "go get
>> F***** ", and they take their questions
>> to friendlier places. I, for one, would like to
>> see the use of
>> google as an answer be outlawed in this group !!
>> (personal opinion of one grouchy old fart)
>
>I AGREE 100%
>
>One of the nice things about this news group is
>that there are those of us out here will answer
>questions - even though it has been asked many
>times before. I hope we NEVER become like some
>of the other newsgroups with answers like "Read
>the FAQs" or "Google it". Sometimes the answer
>to an old question can be such that it leads to
>new understandings or brings up issues that a
>plain "Search Google" does not reveal. For those
>who find it irritating to see repeated questions
>the answer is simple - just don't read them or
>reply.

I agree Steve but I don't think anyone is dismissing anyone else.
There are always several ways to skin a cat and dismissing one over
the other is where the danger is. I know exactly what both points of
view are trying to say. As long as "newbies" don't take a link as FU,
I'm sure we'll all be fine. That's what links are for. To save typing
it in again. If the "newbie" takes it as if I typed the whole thing
myself ( plagerizing it) then all will be fine.OTOH, if I type a short
answer and the newbie doesn't think I have time for him or he doesn't
interpret my short answer as FU then we'll be fine too. I'm more of
the type where I'd rather someone give me the whole enchillada and let
me peruse it at my own leisure. Then if I still have questions about
the details I won't feel shy about asking them.

Bob

On Dec 31, 1:18*pm, spud > wrote:
> OTOH pointing a fellow to an endless wealth of information is no small
> aid IMO. *In fact one could argued more helpful than a quick one shot
> answer. *That might leave the helper feeling good about their deed,
> but certainly the helpee is nowhere as educated than if directed to
> the wealth of info available to them. * *
>
> In additon to Lum's book and Keller's site: *http://www.geocities.com/lumeisenman...ackkeller.net/
>
> there's 2 amazing FAQ's one for wine making:http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/alcohol/winemaking-faq
>
> and one for grape growing:http://vitfaq.vinic.com/gohome.html
>
> And last but not leat the Advanced Seach feature for Usenet:http://groups.google.com/advanced_se...e=UTF-8&hl=en&
>
> Here is the accumulated knowledge of rcw, with detail knowledge and
> EXPERIENCE in the specific and esoteric as well as detailed answers
> for entry level and novice wine maker. *
>
> Frankly I think providing these resources to a novice is much more
> valuable than the usual 'buy a kit and follow directions' advice.
> Who's really dismissing the noobie here?
>
> Steve
> Oregon
>
> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:17:26 -0500, "Paul E. Lehmann"
>
> > wrote:
> >frederick ploegman wrote:
>
> >> It's the newbies that keep this group going.
> >> All too often lately,
> >> they are being told to "go get googled". *Some
> >> interpret this as the equivalent of "go get
> >> F***** ", and they take their questions
> >> to friendlier places. *I, for one, would like to
> >> see the use of
> >> google as an answer be outlawed in this group !!
> >> *(personal opinion of one grouchy old fart)
>
> >I AGREE 100%
>
> >One of the nice things about this news group is
> >that there are those of us out here will answer
> >questions - even though it has been asked many
> >times before. *I hope we NEVER become like some
> >of the other newsgroups with answers like "Read
> >the FAQs" or "Google it". *Sometimes the answer
> >to an old question can be such that it leads to
> >new understandings or brings up issues that a
> >plain "Search Google" does not reveal. *For those
> >who find it irritating to see repeated questions
> >the answer is simple - just don't read them or
> >reply.

spud wrote:

> OTOH pointing a fellow to an endless wealth of
> information is no small
> aid IMO. In fact one could argued more helpful
> than a quick one shot
> answer. That might leave the helper feeling
> good about their deed, but certainly the helpee
> is nowhere as educated than if directed to the
> wealth of info available to them.
>
> In additon to Lum's book and Keller's site:
> http://www.geocities.com/lumeisenman/
> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/
>
> there's 2 amazing FAQ's one for wine making:
>
http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/alcohol/winemaking-faq
>
> and one for grape growing:
> http://vitfaq.vinic.com/gohome.html
>
> And last but not leat the Advanced Seach feature
> for Usenet:
>
http://groups.google.com/advanced_se...e=UTF-8&hl=en&
>
> Here is the accumulated knowledge of rcw, with
> detail knowledge and EXPERIENCE in the specific
> and esoteric as well as detailed answers for
> entry level and novice wine maker.
>
> Frankly I think providing these resources to a
> novice is much more valuable than the usual 'buy
> a kit and follow directions' advice. Who's
> really dismissing the noobie here?
>
> Steve
> Oregon

There is nothing to prevent both - A simple answer
to a question asked before plus links. I just
hate the "Read the FAQs" or Google It" answers
when a quick response with the answer and yes,
links to resources is much more polite, better
overall and does not take any more time than a
rude reply.


>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:17:26 -0500, "Paul E.
> Lehmann" > wrote:
>
>>frederick ploegman wrote:
>
>>>
>>> It's the newbies that keep this group going.
>>> All too often lately,
>>> they are being told to "go get googled". Some
>>> interpret this as the equivalent of "go get
>>> F***** ", and they take their questions
>>> to friendlier places. I, for one, would like
>>> to see the use of
>>> google as an answer be outlawed in this group
>>> !!
>>> (personal opinion of one grouchy old fart)
>>
>>I AGREE 100%
>>
>>One of the nice things about this news group is
>>that there are those of us out here will answer
>>questions - even though it has been asked many
>>times before. I hope we NEVER become like some
>>of the other newsgroups with answers like "Read
>>the FAQs" or "Google it". Sometimes the answer
>>to an old question can be such that it leads to
>>new understandings or brings up issues that a
>>plain "Search Google" does not reveal. For
>>those who find it irritating to see repeated
>>questions the answer is simple - just don't read
>>them or reply.

On Dec 31 2007, 3:30 pm, wrote:
> I agree Steve but I don't think anyone is dismissing anyone else.
> There are always several ways to skin a cat and dismissing one over
> the other is where the danger is. I know exactly what both points of
> view are trying to say. As long as "newbies" don't take a link as FU,
> I'm sure we'll all be fine. That's what links are for. To save typing
> it in again. If the "newbie" takes it as if I typed the whole thing
> myself ( plagerizing it) then all will be fine.OTOH, if I type a short
> answer and the newbie doesn't think I have time for him or he doesn't
> interpret my short answer as FU then we'll be fine too. I'm more of
> the type where I'd rather someone give me the whole enchillada and let
> me peruse it at my own leisure. Then if I still have questions about
> the details I won't feel shy about asking them.
>
> Bob
>
> On Dec 31, 1:18 pm, spud > wrote:
>
> > OTOH pointing a fellow to an endless wealth of information is no small
> > aid IMO. In fact one could argued more helpful than a quick one shot
> > answer. That might leave the helper feeling good about their deed,
> > but certainly the helpee is nowhere as educated than if directed to
> > the wealth of info available to them.
>
> > In additon to Lum's book and Keller's site: http://www.geocities.com/lumeisenman...ackkeller.net/
>
> > there's 2 amazing FAQ's one for wine making:http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/alcohol/winemaking-faq
>
> > and one for grape growing:http://vitfaq.vinic.com/gohome.html
>
> > And last but not leat the Advanced Seach feature for Usenet:http://groups.google.com/advanced_se...e=UTF-8&hl=en&
>
> > Here is the accumulated knowledge of rcw, with detail knowledge and
> > EXPERIENCE in the specific and esoteric as well as detailed answers
> > for entry level and novice wine maker.
>
> > Frankly I think providing these resources to a novice is much more
> > valuable than the usual 'buy a kit and follow directions' advice.
> > Who's really dismissing the noobie here?
>
> > Steve
> > Oregon
>
> > On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 09:17:26 -0500, "Paul E. Lehmann"
>
> > > wrote:
> > >frederick ploegman wrote:
>
> > >> It's the newbies that keep this group going.
> > >> All too often lately,
> > >> they are being told to "go get googled". Some
> > >> interpret this as the equivalent of "go get
> > >> F***** ", and they take their questions
> > >> to friendlier places. I, for one, would like to
> > >> see the use of
> > >> google as an answer be outlawed in this group !!
> > >> (personal opinion of one grouchy old fart)
>
> > >I AGREE 100%
>
> > >One of the nice things about this news group is
> > >that there are those of us out here will answer
> > >questions - even though it has been asked many
> > >times before. I hope we NEVER become like some
> > >of the other newsgroups with answers like "Read
> > >the FAQs" or "Google it". Sometimes the answer
> > >to an old question can be such that it leads to
> > >new understandings or brings up issues that a
> > >plain "Search Google" does not reveal. For those
> > >who find it irritating to see repeated questions
> > >the answer is simple - just don't read them or
> > >reply.

One of the links in this thread is to a site built by Ed Goist for
just this purpose. He always answered questions in depth and that FAQ
is basically an extension of several of those posts to RCW.

This group seems to be unique, maybe it has something to do with
winemakers in general. I really can't remember the last time I saw
flaming here, it's very civil. For the most part if something can be
taken a few ways people here tend to give one another the benefit of
the doubt.

I usually try to answer what I can here because others did the same
for me.

And no I don't care how many times someone asks how to get those pesky
labels off, I'll still suggest acetone every time. It's cheap and so
am I.... )

Joe

Wow Joe-

Two for two on the link requests here (just pinged you on another
thread).

Any links on those books?

Thanks,

Liam




On Dec 28 2007, 12:03 pm, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> On Dec 27, 9:55 pm, jim > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 27, 10:45 pm, wrote:
>
> > > Exactly, People have learned how to do searches. I assume that is the
> > > reason also. It's very rare a "new" question is posted and just as
> > > rare that a "new" answer will be given.
>
> > > Bob
>
> > > On Dec 27, 5:41 pm, wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 20, 4:46 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 19, 6:25 pm, Dick Heckman > wrote:
>
> > > > > > It seems that there is much less activity here lately. Are folks moving
> > > > > > elsewhere?
>
> > > > > > dick
>
> > > > > This is the original winemaking newsgroup, it's been around for close
> > > > > to 15 years. To be honest, it's not only spawned a lot of other
> > > > > groups but most questions have been asked and answered many times.
> > > > > The groups was much more active years ago, but that is where a lot of
> > > > > questions got answered. I might be willing to bet there are close to
> > > > > a thousand posts on cleaning/ removing labels from bottles for
> > > > > example. There really aren't that many ways to do that and I can
> > > > > guarantee all of them have already been explored here.
>
> > > > > I'm not saying it's outlived it's usefulness, just that there are
> > > > > other groups out there now answering all these questions, again. So
> > > > > 'dilution' is occurring...
>
> > > > > Joe
>
> > > > I agree with Joe.
>
> > > > You can search almost any wine making question within this group and
> > > > you will find pages of relative info. I search first and if I don't
> > > > find the info/help I need, then I will post a question. Why post if
> > > > the info you need has been discussed multiple times. I think some of
> > > > the folks that have been around this site for awhile probably get
> > > > tired of the same old questions all the time. That said, this is a
> > > > great group and a wealth of information and if you don't like to
> > > > search and would rather post questions, I bet you will still get some
> > > > discussion.
>
> > > > Happy Holidays!
>
> > > > Jesse
>
> > I kind of agree and kind of don't.
>
> > Many people use the news-reader portion of outlook express. Unless
> > their newsgroup provider has unlimited retention and was there before
> > the start of this wine-making group they wouldn't be able to find the
> > messages in their news-client. They might not realise (as I didn't
> > till the middle of this year) that they could search the entire (I
> > think) archive on Google. Also, different practices and materials and
> > equipment arises from time to time, so it is on occasion worth
> > revisiting.
>
> > I agree in general though - Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Oh yeah, you can get the original posts from when they started the
> group in Usenet back in 1993 on Google's archives. I probably have at
> least 50 books on wine and winemaking but probably learned more here
> on this group. You can never beat first hand experience. Google is
> amazing, you can read 100 year old winemaking books now if you want
> to...
>
> Joe

Hi Liam,
I just opened Google, click on books and entered "winemaking". All
kinds of old UC Davis books came back along with some French and
Italian books; complete texts. Lot's of partial texts too. A lot
came from the University of Michigan.

Joe

On 1/1/2008 6:47 PM, Joe Sallustio wrote:
[thread snipped]
> One of the links in this thread is to a site built by Ed Goist for
> just this purpose. He always answered questions in depth and that FAQ
> is basically an extension of several of those posts to RCW.
>
> This group seems to be unique, maybe it has something to do with
> winemakers in general. I really can't remember the last time I saw
> flaming here, it's very civil. For the most part if something can be
> taken a few ways people here tend to give one another the benefit of
> the doubt.
>
> I usually try to answer what I can here because others did the same
> for me.
>
> And no I don't care how many times someone asks how to get those pesky
> labels off, I'll still suggest acetone every time. It's cheap and so
> am I.... )
>
> Joe

Yes, this group and rec.crafts.meadmaking are very genial.

As for label removing, I think I can one-up your cheapness, Joe. I soak
the bottles in water. What labels come off after the soak makes for
wine making bottles. What labels do not come off makes for recycling
fodder. :-)

I did build up a nice collection before settling on this scheme, but I
never did use anything other than water and a tool like a scraper meant
for removing county tax and safety inspection stickers from car
windshields. Basically a razor blade set in a broad hand grip. Great
for removing labels.


Cheers,
Ken

Thanks Joe,

I later went ahead and googled up the books myself; later this month I
plan to post a request for book reviews / favorites /
recommendations.

As far as this discussion goes I'm one of those newbies that has only
recently gotten the bug. I did find most of the links posted in this
thread (Keller, Lum, winemakermag.com) on my own. This community is
great though; no two batches will ever be the same and there is no
replacement for experience.

Liam