So heres the plan.....I'm hoping to get #400 of syrah grapes from the
strip...do my primary in a 60 gal drum , and at some point put it
through a ML culture. I'll be putting everything into 6 gallon carboys
for the secondary. I bought a culture from Country Wines , and it's
good for up to 65 gallons. The woman there told me to wait until my
alcohol ferment is complete prior to starting the ML , due to nutrient
competition. My problem is , how do I divide the culture up over
several carboys , or should I rack everything back into a big bucket ,
culture it then return it to the carboys , risking a lot of exposure
to air , etc ,or should I disregard her advice , start the culture
about half way through the primary giving the must extra nutrients. I
guess the alternative would've been to get cultures for smaller
batches , but what I bought is what I've got. Any thoughts ?

On Aug 21, 3:10 pm, wrote:
> So heres the plan.....I'm hoping to get #400 of syrah grapes from the
> strip...do my primary in a 60 gal drum , and at some point put it
> through a ML culture. I'll be putting everything into 6 gallon carboys
> for the secondary. I bought a culture from Country Wines , and it's
> good for up to 65 gallons. The woman there told me to wait until my
> alcohol ferment is complete prior to starting the ML , due to nutrient
> competition. My problem is , how do I divide the culture up over
> several carboys , or should I rack everything back into a big bucket ,
> culture it then return it to the carboys , risking a lot of exposure
> to air , etc ,or should I disregard her advice , start the culture
> about half way through the primary giving the must extra nutrients. I
> guess the alternative would've been to get cultures for smaller
> batches , but what I bought is what I've got. Any thoughts ?

i wouldn't go through the hassle. I am no expert, but I would add the
culture just a day before the wine is dry in the primary. Then press
it with the culture. I have heard where some winemakers will actually
put the culture in real early during fermentation. I think this also
depends on what yeast you are using. Instead, if you want to divide
the culture up over several carboys, I would mix the culture in a
separate container with some amount of wine that is easily divisible
by the number of carboys you have. Let the culture sit in there for
some short period, then divide it equally among the secondaries.
Again - being no expert - adding culture is not like adding acid, in
terms of percision, so i wouldn't sweat it. The culture is alive and
therefore not easily quantified. Remember that most reds (unless over
sulfited) will go through MLF on their own, so adding the cultre is a
security measure in my opinion. My last thought on this is that if
for some reason you have a little more or less ml culture in some
secondaries, they may just take a little longer to go through
MLF.

I like the idea of putting it in before pressing too, but I am from
Pittsburgh and am not sure I understand why you even want to use ML on
anything from the strip. (This poster is from around Pittsburgh
too.)

The grapes from the strip come from California, but from a hot area.
By definition they are low acid wines. What you could end up with is
a flabby Syrah. If you are buying off of Jay or Ron ask them if they
advise using ML and how they would add it. I make a lot of Syrah from
the strip and never added ML to any of it. I'm in the book if you
have questions and need an answer fast. The only time I use ML is
when I make reds form Erie or NY, I don't always use it there either.

Alexis at Country Wines is a good winemaker by the way, if you were
comfortable talking to her just tell her what your final plan is and
see what she thinks.

We have a saying; "The wine will turn out fine in spite of what you do
to it" so don't worry.
Joe

On Aug 23, 6:04 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
> I like the idea of putting it in before pressing too, but I am from
> Pittsburgh and am not sure I understand why you even want to use ML on
> anything from the strip. (This poster is from around Pittsburgh
> too.)
>
> The grapes from the strip come from California, but from a hot area.
> By definition they are low acid wines. What you could end up with is
> a flabby Syrah. If you are buying off of Jay or Ron ask them if they
> advise using ML and how they would add it. I make a lot of Syrah from
> the strip and never added ML to any of it. I'm in the book if you
> have questions and need an answer fast. The only time I use ML is
> when I make reds form Erie or NY, I don't always use it there either.
>
> Alexis at Country Wines is a good winemaker by the way, if you were
> comfortable talking to her just tell her what your final plan is and
> see what she thinks.
>
> We have a saying; "The wine will turn out fine in spite of what you do
> to it" so don't worry.
> Joe

Thanx Joe.I got my grapes from consumers last year ( Ron). I have a
bear of a time getting anything close to accurate as far as acid
testing , and have only been doing this for 4 or 5 years. I gotta
admit it turns into a compulsion after awhile. I'll let you know what
shakes out. Ted.

On Aug 23, 6:43 am, wrote:
> On Aug 23, 6:04 am, Joe Sallustio > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I like the idea of putting it in before pressing too, but I am from
> > Pittsburgh and am not sure I understand why you even want to use ML on
> > anything from the strip. (This poster is from around Pittsburgh
> > too.)
>
> > The grapes from the strip come from California, but from a hot area.
> > By definition they are low acid wines. What you could end up with is
> > a flabby Syrah. If you are buying off of Jay or Ron ask them if they
> > advise using ML and how they would add it. I make a lot of Syrah from
> > the strip and never added ML to any of it. I'm in the book if you
> > have questions and need an answer fast. The only time I use ML is
> > when I make reds form Erie or NY, I don't always use it there either.
>
> > Alexis at Country Wines is a good winemaker by the way, if you were
> > comfortable talking to her just tell her what your final plan is and
> > see what she thinks.
>
> > We have a saying; "The wine will turn out fine in spite of what you do
> > to it" so don't worry.
> > Joe
>
> Thanx Joe.I got my grapes from consumers last year ( Ron). I have a
> bear of a time getting anything close to accurate as far as acid
> testing , and have only been doing this for 4 or 5 years. I gotta
> admit it turns into a compulsion after awhile. I'll let you know what
> shakes out. Ted.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ted,
I'm in the South Hills, I can help you with the acids. Just email me.

Joe.

I would add the ML culture at (or very near) the end of fermentation
but before pressing. I've done this twice with Cabernet Sauvignon
with goods results. Giving the ML bugs a day or so skin contact time
is probably beneficial. Though pressing will aerate the wine a bit
(and too much aeration could promote off flavors from the ML culture),
my experience has been that it is not a problem. The wine at this
point is still nearly saturated with CO2 offering some protection. I
don't think I would try to divide it up into your carboys because
getting the culture to solubilize evenly may proove difficult.

I ML all reds not so much for stylistic reasons as for microbial
stability. A poster above mentioned this also. With low acid grapes
I would supplement with tartaric acid prior to fermentation and put it
through ML. I sleep better at night knowing I've encouraged a known
ML culture to metabolize the malic acid and other nutrients in the
must rather than allowing unknown organisms to do the job.

Also as mentioned by others, success or failure of co-inoculation is
yeast-dependent (perhaps ML strain dependent, too). For example,
Premier Cuvee can produce sufficient amounts of SO2 to thwart or
retard ML. Choose a yeast strain that's ML compatible.

RD

Joe Sallustio wrote:

> I like the idea of putting it in before pressing
> too, but I am from Pittsburgh and am not sure I
> understand why you even want to use ML on
> anything from the strip. (This poster is from
> around Pittsburgh too.)
>
> The grapes from the strip come from California,
> but from a hot area.
> By definition they are low acid wines. What you
> could end up with is
> a flabby Syrah. If you are buying off of Jay or
> Ron ask them if they
> advise using ML and how they would add it. I
> make a lot of Syrah from
> the strip and never added ML to any of it. I'm
> in the book if you
> have questions and need an answer fast. The
> only time I use ML is when I make reds form Erie
> or NY, I don't always use it there either.
>
> Alexis at Country Wines is a good winemaker by
> the way, if you were
> comfortable talking to her just tell her what
> your final plan is and see what she thinks.
>
> We have a saying; "The wine will turn out fine
> in spite of what you do to it" so don't worry.
> Joe

Joe, like you, I do not always add ML but I have
been doing some thinking lately on this subject.

The low acid grapes from CA are probably going to
go through a natural ML even if you don't add it
(It is on the skins along with yeast etc).

the "Natural" ML on the skins may not produce a
desired end product as there are more than one
strain of ML and I have read that some of the
"natural" ones may not be beneficial or give off
flavors.

Of course, if you bump up the acid prior to
fermentation and also sulphite prior to
fermentation - which I usually do - you may be
killing off the "Natural ML"

In some (or maybe most cases) it may be best to
kill off the "natural ML" and add a cultured ML

Any thoughts?

Paul