Hi, I've been making 6 gallon "KIT" wine for a year and a half. I've
made 7 batches: 2 white, 2 red, 2 kool-aid (mist-type) and 1
sparkling.

In all cases, I followed the instructions as written and all but two
(which are too young to try) are quite pleasing.

My question is about bulk aging after the clearing step, is there any
benefit to aging the wine in the carboy or should I just go ahead and
bottle? I am mainly interested in aging red wine kits. My father
wants me to make him some Cabernet, he usually drinks two buck chuck,
so the bar isn't real high. But I would like to know about carboy
aging.

The instructions make it seem so frantic that you bottle the wine at a
certain time and I am so afraid to mess it up. I've made my husband
cut trips short because we had to rush home and bottle. Can I just
rack it, put the airlock back on and bottle at my leisure?

I am not ready to try my hand at real grapes, so this is just a "KIT"
question. I enjoy reading the other posts and have gotten many good
tips. Thanks.

Good question. And you'll get several responses. My experience (I've
done over 14 kits) - and just mine - is that bulk aging "Kits" isn't
worth it. The kit was made to get it to bottle in the recipe and
timeline. When I did try to bulk age - and added 1/4 teaspoon Meta, as
suggested, I had poor results. One was so oxidized I contacted
WinExperts and they reviewed what I had done and said "they don't
recommend bulk aging their kits".

So what I learned is: follow the instructions to bottle time, they want
you successful, so you will buy more kits. If I want to really let it
get better, let it bottle age for all the time they recommend. This
Pinot Gris I am finishing next week to bottle says to age for 3 months,
but 6-12 months is better. So I will age for 6-12. I am also told, but
no experience - is that kit wines do not age well for 5-10 years, rather
should be drank within a few years.

Making wines from juice and fruits via recipe is totally a different
world in my experience. But I am anxious to hear others.

DAve

p.s. wish I had a son like you that would make me 30 bottles of wine to
get me off the 2 buck chuck swill. hahaha.

wrote:
> Hi, I've been making 6 gallon "KIT" wine for a year and a half. I've
> made 7 batches: 2 white, 2 red, 2 kool-aid (mist-type) and 1
> sparkling.
>
> In all cases, I followed the instructions as written and all but two
> (which are too young to try) are quite pleasing.
>
> My question is about bulk aging after the clearing step, is there any
> benefit to aging the wine in the carboy or should I just go ahead and
> bottle? I am mainly interested in aging red wine kits. My father
> wants me to make him some Cabernet, he usually drinks two buck chuck,
> so the bar isn't real high. But I would like to know about carboy
> aging.
>
> The instructions make it seem so frantic that you bottle the wine at a
> certain time and I am so afraid to mess it up. I've made my husband
> cut trips short because we had to rush home and bottle. Can I just
> rack it, put the airlock back on and bottle at my leisure?
>
> I am not ready to try my hand at real grapes, so this is just a "KIT"
> question. I enjoy reading the other posts and have gotten many good
> tips. Thanks.
>

The general consenus on kit wines is that their is little difference
between the results of carboy aging & bottle aging. It will get
better over time as Dave said, just doesn't matter carboy or bottle.

Having said that, the most important attribute of a good winemaker is
PATIENCE. Cutting short a holiday in order to bottle wine is (excuse
my comment) STUPID. Yes the instructions say to bottle in 28 or 42 or
whatever days, but bottling in 35 or 55 or 85 days is no big deal.

Last year we started a good Shiraz kit in Feb or March and bottled in
November. It is a VERY NICE wine. A couple of people that we have
shared it with, have made the exact kit. One actually just started
their second one.

I suggest, racking off sediment about 2 weeks after adding the
clearing. Then bottle at your leisure. Check the air-lock regularly.

Steve

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:41:59 -0700, wrote:

>Hi, I've been making 6 gallon "KIT" wine for a year and a half. I've
>made 7 batches: 2 white, 2 red, 2 kool-aid (mist-type) and 1
>sparkling.
>
>In all cases, I followed the instructions as written and all but two
>(which are too young to try) are quite pleasing.
>
>My question is about bulk aging after the clearing step, is there any
>benefit to aging the wine in the carboy or should I just go ahead and
>bottle? I am mainly interested in aging red wine kits. My father
>wants me to make him some Cabernet, he usually drinks two buck chuck,
>so the bar isn't real high. But I would like to know about carboy
>aging.
>
>The instructions make it seem so frantic that you bottle the wine at a
>certain time and I am so afraid to mess it up. I've made my husband
>cut trips short because we had to rush home and bottle. Can I just
>rack it, put the airlock back on and bottle at my leisure?
>
>I am not ready to try my hand at real grapes, so this is just a "KIT"
>question. I enjoy reading the other posts and have gotten many good
>tips. Thanks.

Jack Keller has instructions for an extended process for making wine
from kits. Take a look and see if this might yield what you want.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/extended.asp


On Aug 7, 2:41 pm, wrote:
> Hi, I've been making 6 gallon "KIT" wine for a year and a half. I've
> made 7 batches: 2 white, 2 red, 2 kool-aid (mist-type) and 1
> sparkling.
>
> In all cases, I followed the instructions as written and all but two
> (which are too young to try) are quite pleasing.
>
> My question is about bulk aging after the clearing step, is there any
> benefit to aging the wine in the carboy or should I just go ahead and
> bottle? I am mainly interested in aging red wine kits. My father
> wants me to make him some Cabernet, he usually drinks two buck chuck,
> so the bar isn't real high. But I would like to know about carboy
> aging.
>
> The instructions make it seem so frantic that you bottle the wine at a
> certain time and I am so afraid to mess it up. I've made my husband
> cut trips short because we had to rush home and bottle. Can I just
> rack it, put the airlock back on and bottle at my leisure?
>
> I am not ready to try my hand at real grapes, so this is just a "KIT"
> question. I enjoy reading the other posts and have gotten many good
> tips. Thanks.

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 06:34:06 -0700, shbailey >
wrote:

>Jack Keller has instructions for an extended process for making wine
>from kits. Take a look and see if this might yield what you want.
>
>http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/extended.asp
>

It's been a while since I read Jack's extended instructions closely.
As I recall, the majority of it was fine. There are a couple of
points I'm unsure of, such as the extra tannin at the start.

There are a couple of points that I would change. One is the
bentonite. I would follow the kit's instructions on bentonite, and
not Jack's. There are a large number of different bentonites, and the
kit manufacturer should know what is best for the bentonite in their
kit.

The biggest problem with Jack's instructions (IMHO) is that they are
generic, and not specific to any particular brand. I'm not sure that
all of his comments (eg the tannin) will apply to every kit.

Steve

Ouch Steve, I don't know about stupid...

I did read Jack Keller's page and this isn't what I needed to know.

Actually, you and Dave answered my question. No, bulk aging wine
kits doesn't make them better and NO! being super anal about the exact
bottling date isn't necessary.

I am off to the store to get a Cabernet kit, and I did read on other
posts that better kits make better wine. Thanks for your help.

Susan

Yes Susan, as a general rule the better kits (larger box size, more
money) make a better wine. Of course, your tastes may vary. For
example, these days there's a lot of discussion about oaked and
unoaked chardonnays. If you like unoaked chardonnay, leaving the oak
out of a kit designed to be oaked may not be your cup of chardonnay.

Good luck with the Cabernet.

Steve

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 11:10:24 -0700, wrote:

>I am off to the store to get a Cabernet kit, and I did read on other
>posts that better kits make better wine. Thanks for your help.
>
>Susan

On Aug 7, 9:41 pm, Steve > wrote:
> The general consenus on kit wines is that their is little difference
> between the results of carboy aging & bottle aging. It will get
> better over time as Dave said, just doesn't matter carboy or bottle.
>
> Having said that, the most important attribute of a good winemaker is
> PATIENCE. Cutting short a holiday in order to bottle wine is (excuse
> my comment) STUPID. Yes the instructions say to bottle in 28 or 42 or
> whatever days, but bottling in 35 or 55 or 85 days is no big deal.
>
> Last year we started a good Shiraz kit in Feb or March and bottled in
> November. It is a VERY NICE wine. A couple of people that we have
> shared it with, have made the exact kit. One actually just started
> their second one.
>
> I suggest, racking off sediment about 2 weeks after adding the
> clearing. Then bottle at your leisure. Check the air-lock regularly.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:41:59 -0700, wrote:
> >Hi, I've been making 6 gallon "KIT" wine for a year and a half. I've
> >made 7 batches: 2 white, 2 red, 2 kool-aid (mist-type) and 1
> >sparkling.
>
> >In all cases, I followed the instructions as written and all but two
> >(which are too young to try) are quite pleasing.
>
> >My question is about bulk aging after the clearing step, is there any
> >benefit to aging the wine in the carboy or should I just go ahead and
> >bottle? I am mainly interested in aging red wine kits. My father
> >wants me to make him some Cabernet, he usually drinks two buck chuck,
> >so the bar isn't real high. But I would like to know about carboy
> >aging.
>
> >The instructions make it seem so frantic that you bottle the wine at a
> >certain time and I am so afraid to mess it up. I've made my husband
> >cut trips short because we had to rush home and bottle. Can I just
> >rack it, put the airlock back on and bottle at my leisure?
>
> >I am not ready to try my hand at real grapes, so this is just a "KIT"
> >question. I enjoy reading the other posts and have gotten many good
> >tips. Thanks.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I would like to say that, personally, I would like to keep the use of
the word "stupid" out of this group. I don't think its a nice word,
and, happily, I am confident I speak for the vast majority of users of
this forum. I feel quite strongly about it. Personal opinion.

Sean

This is a very civil group, yes.

As to the OP, aging in carboys should be slower in general. there is
no need to rush the process, whether it's a kit, juice or came from
grapes the basic ingredients are all similar. The major problem with
aging is preventing oxidation. That is pretty easy to do. Keep the
sulfite levels normal, keep the container well sealed and keep it
topped to 1/2 " are all that i do and have bulk aged wines for 2
years. I have a kit chardonnay in bulk aging for at least 9 months
now and am about to bottle it. (I realize Dave had an issue but that
may have been an aberration.)

If you want a rule of thumb for sulfite additions add 1/8 to 1/4
teaspoon K meta per 5 gallons wine each rack. I prepare the carboy,
add the sulfite to a little water and dump it in the carboy while I
get the rest of my racking stuff ready, then I rack into it without
splashing. I only splash on the first rack. f

2 buck Chuck should be pretty easy to duplicate with kits; aging is
more of an option than necessity if that is where you want to end up.
It's not bad wine but you can do better (even with cheap kits) if you
keep good notes. You may find the reds are better with more oak if he
likes it that way. If you want to experiment bottle most of it the
way you want and keep a gallon back in a gallon jug, adding oak to
that in some measured amount. Let that age a month or so and bottle
it, see which he likes more.

Joe

Hi gang!

I'd just like to say that I think winemakers have a great sense of
humor and feel that this was the post's intention.

Okay, I'd like to get my Dad off the two buck-chuck, but the wine kit
I bought is "Vintners Reserve - Cabernet Sauvignon." The guy at the
store tells me that I should age this in the bottle for at least a
year, before drinking. Well, I guess Dad's going to be two-bucking
for a bit longer.

I am now at the degassing stage, it's quite foamy. I have the drill
attachment, but I always feel I'm causing the foam with the motion?!?
I'm going to search for more info on this subject.

Thank you all for your advise.
Susan

Yes, your poor Dad will have to look at your wonderful bottles of wine
for a while. Though I did this kit once, and it was very nice in 6 months.

Drill degasser - the instructions when hand stirring says "stir
vigorously for 2 minutes" and "if you don't do this right the wine will
not clear" and scary things like that. What is vigorous? I tried this a
few times and got blisters so went and bought a drill attachment.

I use a Drill attachment also - I have a 19volt cordless and put it on
high and then stir one direction until the wine is spinning and then hit
reverse and do it again until the wine is a tornado in the carboy. I do
this over and over for about 1 minute. Then I rest (snicker) and the 2
inches of foam slowly settles. After 5 minutes, I repeat the above. This
time much less foam. Then I consider it done.

I just did this to my Zinfandel kit and it's in the last 28 days of
clearing.

Good luck. Let us know if Dad likes this better than Charles' 2Buck!
I'm guessing he'll think he has a $20 bottle of wine and much enjoy it.

DAve

wrote:
> Hi gang!
>
> I'd just like to say that I think winemakers have a great sense of
> humor and feel that this was the post's intention.
>
> Okay, I'd like to get my Dad off the two buck-chuck, but the wine kit
> I bought is "Vintners Reserve - Cabernet Sauvignon." The guy at the
> store tells me that I should age this in the bottle for at least a
> year, before drinking. Well, I guess Dad's going to be two-bucking
> for a bit longer.
>
> I am now at the degassing stage, it's quite foamy. I have the drill
> attachment, but I always feel I'm causing the foam with the motion?!?
> I'm going to search for more info on this subject.
>
> Thank you all for your advise.
> Susan
>

Dave Allison wrote:
> Yes, your poor Dad will have to look at your wonderful bottles of wine
> for a while. Though I did this kit once, and it was very nice in 6 months.
>
> Drill degasser - the instructions when hand stirring says "stir
> vigorously for 2 minutes" and "if you don't do this right the wine will
> not clear" and scary things like that. What is vigorous? I tried this a
> few times and got blisters so went and bought a drill attachment.
>
> I use a Drill attachment also - I have a 19volt cordless and put it on
> high and then stir one direction until the wine is spinning and then hit
> reverse and do it again until the wine is a tornado in the carboy. I do
> this over and over for about 1 minute. Then I rest (snicker) and the 2
> inches of foam slowly settles. After 5 minutes, I repeat the above. This
> time much less foam. Then I consider it done.
>
> I just did this to my Zinfandel kit and it's in the last 28 days of
> clearing.
>
> Good luck. Let us know if Dad likes this better than Charles' 2Buck!
> I'm guessing he'll think he has a $20 bottle of wine and much enjoy it.
>
> DAve
>
> wrote:
>> Hi gang!
>>
>> I'd just like to say that I think winemakers have a great sense of
>> humor and feel that this was the post's intention.
>>
>> Okay, I'd like to get my Dad off the two buck-chuck, but the wine kit
>> I bought is "Vintners Reserve - Cabernet Sauvignon." The guy at the
>> store tells me that I should age this in the bottle for at least a
>> year, before drinking. Well, I guess Dad's going to be two-bucking
>> for a bit longer.
>>
>> I am now at the degassing stage, it's quite foamy. I have the drill
>> attachment, but I always feel I'm causing the foam with the motion?!?
>> I'm going to search for more info on this subject.
>>
>> Thank you all for your advise.
>> Susan
>>
Reading from Wine Experts 2007/2008 Catalog Aging Periods for Vintners
Reserve (Reds- Minimum 2 months, Maximum 1 year)(Whites - Min. 1 month,
Max 1 year).

Brian

Yes, good point. The Winexpert site has the detailed instructions for
each kit - which I have found two mistakes in two different kits and
found corrections on the site.
For this kit:
http://www.winexpert.com/%7EASSETS/D...eserve_Eng.pdf

For when it is drinkable: they state "Try to wait at least six months
before you try your first sample—but a year is better."

Good you pointed out that, Brian. The WinExpert said they rarely update
the instructions, so it was a fluke that I had two kits in a row with
updated info on the web (one was a wrong S.G. reading). But I do check
each time now. smile.

DAve

Brian wrote:
> Dave Allison wrote:
>> Yes, your poor Dad will have to look at your wonderful bottles of wine
>> for a while. Though I did this kit once, and it was very nice in 6
>> months.
>>
>> Drill degasser - the instructions when hand stirring says "stir
>> vigorously for 2 minutes" and "if you don't do this right the wine
>> will not clear" and scary things like that. What is vigorous? I tried
>> this a few times and got blisters so went and bought a drill attachment.
>>
>> I use a Drill attachment also - I have a 19volt cordless and put it on
>> high and then stir one direction until the wine is spinning and then
>> hit reverse and do it again until the wine is a tornado in the carboy.
>> I do this over and over for about 1 minute. Then I rest (snicker) and
>> the 2 inches of foam slowly settles. After 5 minutes, I repeat the
>> above. This time much less foam. Then I consider it done.
>>
>> I just did this to my Zinfandel kit and it's in the last 28 days of
>> clearing.
>>
>> Good luck. Let us know if Dad likes this better than Charles' 2Buck!
>> I'm guessing he'll think he has a $20 bottle of wine and much enjoy it.
>>
>> DAve
>>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi gang!
>>>
>>> I'd just like to say that I think winemakers have a great sense of
>>> humor and feel that this was the post's intention.
>>>
>>> Okay, I'd like to get my Dad off the two buck-chuck, but the wine kit
>>> I bought is "Vintners Reserve - Cabernet Sauvignon." The guy at the
>>> store tells me that I should age this in the bottle for at least a
>>> year, before drinking. Well, I guess Dad's going to be two-bucking
>>> for a bit longer.
>>>
>>> I am now at the degassing stage, it's quite foamy. I have the drill
>>> attachment, but I always feel I'm causing the foam with the motion?!?
>>> I'm going to search for more info on this subject.
>>>
>>> Thank you all for your advise.
>>> Susan
>>>
> Reading from Wine Experts 2007/2008 Catalog Aging Periods for Vintners
> Reserve (Reds- Minimum 2 months, Maximum 1 year)(Whites - Min. 1 month,
> Max 1 year).
>
> Brian

Susan:

A lot of people are very happy drinking the wine from that kit much
younger than 1 year. In fact, the Ferment on Premises business has a
term for it..."trunk aging". Customers bottle in the store, load the
bottles into the trunk, and its magically aged when it reaches their
house.

Don't get me wrong, the wine will be much better in 3..6...9...12
months. So get your Dad to try after a month in bottle, and see what
he thinks. After all we all have different tastes.

Degassing...the winemakers biggest problem. Many days I think that we
are making more work for ourselves. I spend much more time degassing
than I did 5 years ago, and I don't think there is any difference in
the result. I don't remember the wine being gassy back then and it
isn't now.

At least one kit company (Vineco) does not recommend the use of drill
mounted stiirers because people stir too hard and whip air into the
wine thus using up the free SO2 and shortening the wine's shelf life.

I do NOT have a good answer to "how to degas" question. And in my
opinion neither does anybody else.

Steve

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:13:34 -0700, wrote:

>Hi gang!
>
>I'd just like to say that I think winemakers have a great sense of
>humor and feel that this was the post's intention.
>
>Okay, I'd like to get my Dad off the two buck-chuck, but the wine kit
>I bought is "Vintners Reserve - Cabernet Sauvignon." The guy at the
>store tells me that I should age this in the bottle for at least a
>year, before drinking. Well, I guess Dad's going to be two-bucking
>for a bit longer.
>
>I am now at the degassing stage, it's quite foamy. I have the drill
>attachment, but I always feel I'm causing the foam with the motion?!?
>I'm going to search for more info on this subject.
>
>Thank you all for your advise.
>Susan

Well, I spent two days trying to degass my Cab., finally I emailed
winexpert and this was their very fast response.:

"Thank you for your contact and for choosing our products. You only
stir the wine vigorously - the one time - the one day - stabilizing
day. It probably wasn't gas you were observing, after that amount of
stirring: it was more likely bubbles from the stirring. A good way to
check gas levels in a wine is to fill a hydrometer tube half-way with
the wine, plug the end with a #6.5 bung (or your hand), shake it hard,
and open the top. If it 'pops', then it's gassy. If not, then it's
flat. "


So, good lesson for me! I didn't try the hydrometer-tube thing, I
just quit whipping, topped up and later this week we'll see if it's
bottling time. Hope this helps others out there. Let me know if
anyone does the hydrometer-tube-shakey thing.

That is good to know, I will try it as I am about ready to degass a
South African Shiraz. thanks! I'll let you know if it pops.
From my above posts, I think I learned to not set the drill on HIGH and
whip it so hard. I am still learning. thanks. DAve

wrote:
> Well, I spent two days trying to degass my Cab., finally I emailed
> winexpert and this was their very fast response.:
>
> "Thank you for your contact and for choosing our products. You only
> stir the wine vigorously - the one time - the one day - stabilizing
> day. It probably wasn't gas you were observing, after that amount of
> stirring: it was more likely bubbles from the stirring. A good way to
> check gas levels in a wine is to fill a hydrometer tube half-way with
> the wine, plug the end with a #6.5 bung (or your hand), shake it hard,
> and open the top. If it 'pops', then it's gassy. If not, then it's
> flat. "
>
>
> So, good lesson for me! I didn't try the hydrometer-tube thing, I
> just quit whipping, topped up and later this week we'll see if it's
> bottling time. Hope this helps others out there. Let me know if
> anyone does the hydrometer-tube-shakey thing.
>
>