I wanted to save money, so for a punch down tool I bought a sheetrock
mud mixer. Basically this looks just like a giant potatoe masher. It
had a golden looking 'anodizing' on the outside of it when I started.
After just two punch downs, I noticed the golden color was all eaten
off by the acid and the shiney metal underneath was getting corroded
as well. I immediately went out and purchased a food grade stainless
steel potatoe masher.

Now I'm worried about what happened to the gold anodizing.. it's of
course in my wine. Does anyone know what that stuff is made out of
and what it's toxicity might be? I'm not wanting to dump the wine and
it's showing really well now with great color, clarity and taste. Any
chemists out there know if it's safe to drink this stuff?

Thanks for your thoughts,

Rick

From your description, I'm guessing that sheetrock mud mixer is made
from an aluminum alloy. That the coating was eaten away so quickly
leads me to believe that it was not anodized. More likely was a
gold-colored chromate conversion coating (which is much less durable
than hard anodizing).

IF it was chromate conversion coated aluminum, then I'd have some
personal concern about carcinogenic, hexavalent chromium [Cr(VI)]
content. The standard chromate conversion coating process does leave
traces of hexavalent chromium in the finished coating. I don't know if
the acids in the wine are strong enough to convert Cr(VI) to the much
less bioactive trivalent [Cr(III)] form.

I can't tell whether or not you dissolved into your wine enough
hexavalent chromium in this situation to be a statistically meaningful
increase in cancer risk. Long term exposure to hexavalent chromium
would concern me more (such as the guy working in the metal finishing
factory day after day).

We are exposed to low levels of hexavalent chromium as dust in the air
and (inhaled and skin contact) and from handling chromate conversion
coated objects. Here's an interesting article:
http://www.skcinc.com/instructions/T...erspective.pdf

Gene

EnoNut wrote:
>
> I wanted to save money, so for a punch down tool I bought a sheetrock
> mud mixer. Basically this looks just like a giant potatoe masher. It
> had a golden looking 'anodizing' on the outside of it when I started.
> After just two punch downs, I noticed the golden color was all eaten
> off by the acid and the shiney metal underneath was getting corroded
> as well. I immediately went out and purchased a food grade stainless
> steel potatoe masher.
>
> Now I'm worried about what happened to the gold anodizing.. it's of
> course in my wine. Does anyone know what that stuff is made out of
> and what it's toxicity might be? I'm not wanting to dump the wine and
> it's showing really well now with great color, clarity and taste. Any
> chemists out there know if it's safe to drink this stuff?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts,
>
> Rick
>

Thanks for the response... so long term carcinogin.. hmmm.. could
that be attributed to my wine, I think not. OK then we are good to
go..

Kidding of course, is there any test for the carcinogin that I could
do prior to dumping the 60 gallons of this wine? I'm giving you the
dilution ratio, what is the vote, should I dump this wine?

EnoNut wrote:
> Thanks for the response... so long term carcinogin.. hmmm.. could
> that be attributed to my wine, I think not. OK then we are good to
> go..
>
> Kidding of course, is there any test for the carcinogin that I could
> do prior to dumping the 60 gallons of this wine? I'm giving you the
> dilution ratio, what is the vote, should I dump this wine?
>

I'd think that any EPA certified commercial environmental testing lab
can do a test for Cr(VI) content. The 'home test kits' for Cr(VI) I've
seen come in packs of 100 tests; what to do with the 99 you don't use LOL.

The biggest exposure risk is inhalation leading to lung cancer; oral
ingestion has only been in one study and is considered less problematic
(I couldn't find the Cr(VI) concentration in the Hinkley, CA drinking
water lawsuit made famous in the movie "Erin Brockovitch".)

Hmmmmm.... one mixer in 60 gallons, sounds pretty dilute.
I learned that there is no current standard for Cr(VI) in drinking
water; only the total chromium. Federal standard for total chromium is
100 part per billion (ppb); California state standard is 50 ppb.
California is adopting over the next two years a Public Health Goal
(PHG) of 2.5 ppb for Cr(VI) in drinking water. This exposure guideline
is based on cumulative exposure from drinking 2 liters per day for 70 years.
http://www.oehha.ca.gov/public_info/...rom6facts.html

I found the referenced PHG document also good reading:
http://www.oehha.ca.gov/water/phg/pdf/chrom_f.pdf

To get to 2.5 ppb, I calculated that you'd need 0.56 milligrams of
Cr(VI) in your 60 gallons of wine. Then drink at least two liters per
day for 70 years to achieve your lifetime recommended maximum dosage
<grin>. Oh wait, 60 gallons is only enough for 120 days at 2 liters per
day. If you drink responsibly, say .25 liters per day of that wine, in
that 480 days duration, that would be the equivalent of 20 ppb Cr(VI) in
the wine without exceeding your recommended daily maximum oral ingestion
of Cr(VI) (Unless you live in one of the locations which has naturally
occurring Cr(VI) in the water).

Gene

On May 12, 11:58 am, EnoNut > wrote:
> I wanted to save money, so for a punch down tool I bought a sheetrock
> mud mixer. Basically this looks just like a giant potatoe masher. It
> had a golden looking 'anodizing' on the outside of it when I started.
> After just two punch downs, I noticed the golden color was all eaten
> off by the acid and the shiney metal underneath was getting corroded
> as well. I immediately went out and purchased a food grade stainless
> steel potatoe masher.
>
> Now I'm worried about what happened to the gold anodizing.. it's of
> course in my wine. Does anyone know what that stuff is made out of
> and what it's toxicity might be? I'm not wanting to dump the wine and
> it's showing really well now with great color, clarity and taste. Any
> chemists out there know if it's safe to drink this stuff?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts,
>
> Rick

Put a magnet on this first to make sure it's not steel. I doubt any
of this went into your wine, you didn't leave it in there for hours
and washed it between uses. A test lab could test fot heavy metals.
I have the mud mixer you describe somewhere but didn't think mine was
aluminum. The color could have come from heat treating.

Joe

"EnoNut" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thanks for the response... so long term carcinogin.. hmmm.. could
> that be attributed to my wine, I think not. OK then we are good to
> go..
>
> Kidding of course, is there any test for the carcinogin that I could
> do prior to dumping the 60 gallons of this wine? I'm giving you the
> dilution ratio, what is the vote, should I dump this wine?
>

Dump the wine.

Joe Sallustio wrote:
> On May 12, 11:58 am, EnoNut > wrote:
>> I wanted to save money, so for a punch down tool I bought a sheetrock
>> mud mixer. Basically this looks just like a giant potatoe masher. It
>> had a golden looking 'anodizing' on the outside of it when I started.
>> After just two punch downs, I noticed the golden color was all eaten
>> off by the acid and the shiney metal underneath was getting corroded
>> as well. I immediately went out and purchased a food grade stainless
>> steel potatoe masher.
>>
>> Now I'm worried about what happened to the gold anodizing.. it's of
>> course in my wine. Does anyone know what that stuff is made out of
>> and what it's toxicity might be? I'm not wanting to dump the wine and
>> it's showing really well now with great color, clarity and taste. Any
>> chemists out there know if it's safe to drink this stuff?
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts,
>>
>> Rick
>
> Put a magnet on this first to make sure it's not steel. I doubt any
> of this went into your wine, you didn't leave it in there for hours
> and washed it between uses. A test lab could test fot heavy metals.
> I have the mud mixer you describe somewhere but didn't think mine was
> aluminum. The color could have come from heat treating.
>
> Joe
>
After your reply, I googled mud mixers, and it is likely steel, in which
case the corrosion resistant plating would probably be zinc chromate,
which also has Cr(VI) content. This golden color plating is very common
on steel. Since the golden color got eaten off during Rick's
punchdowns, it's a question of how much was actually Cr(VI), vs the less
biologically active Cr(III), and would that amount be enough to be a
meaningful health risk.

Gene

>
> - Show quoted text -

Yuck.

Here is mine:

http://www.marshalltown.com/catalog/...sp?edino=16389

If this is the one that you used Marshalltown could tell you if it's
plated or just dipped in varnish.



Joe

"Slap" > wrote in message
news:nSF1i.180308$6m4.179839@pd7urf1no...
>
> "EnoNut" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Thanks for the response... so long term carcinogin.. hmmm.. could
>> that be attributed to my wine, I think not. OK then we are good to
>> go..
>>
>> Kidding of course, is there any test for the carcinogin that I could
>> do prior to dumping the 60 gallons of this wine? I'm giving you the
>> dilution ratio, what is the vote, should I dump this wine?
>>
>
> Dump the wine.
>
>

Better yet, send the wine to me, and I'll dump it... in my gullet.. :^)

Thanks for everyones reply.

It looks more like a potato masher than a spinner. Here is a link to
one on Amazon that looks like it..

http://www.amazon.com/Steel-Mud-Mash...9155993&sr=8-2

You can see the gold color on it. Maybe I should contact the
manufacturer and see what I can find out about the coating.

Regards,

Rick

EnoNut wrote:
> Thanks for everyones reply.
>
> It looks more like a potato masher than a spinner. Here is a link to
> one on Amazon that looks like it..
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Steel-Mud-Mash...9155993&sr=8-2
>
> You can see the gold color on it. Maybe I should contact the
> manufacturer and see what I can find out about the coating.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rick
>
Only reference I could find for the coating was at
http://hand-tools.hardwarestore.com/...le-651993.aspx

It says "Made of heavy-duty, rust-resistant plated wire. This Steel Mud
Masher with Wood Handle is one of many top quality items in our Drywall
Mud Mixers department."

No mention what kind of plating was used. Good luck on tracking it
down. It appears that the manufacturer, Soundbest International,
imports a lot of items from many different suppliers and then sells them
under the Soundbest label.

Gene

>
> Put a magnet on this first to make sure it's not steel. I doubt any
> of this went into your wine, you didn't leave it in there for hours
> and washed it between uses. A test lab could test fot heavy metals.
> I have the mud mixer you describe somewhere but didn't think mine was
> aluminum. The color could have come from heat treating.
>
> Joe

WelL I was going to make some beet wine and I thought I would pulp the
beets with a morter-mixer from the DIY home center.
But then I thought I should sanitise the mixer with a solution
of sulphite and citric acid.

As I can not post any pictures here, take a look at the entry for today
in my weblog.

Just look what this solution did in about 2 minutes to the mixer !!!!

The green is I think copper. The shining parts were removed and the
white is where the mixer is welded.

Now I thought the chroom would disappear afther a night of soaking but
look at what happened: the rust occured afther just 1 night in the
solution !!!!


I really think you should dump the wine !!!

> As I can not post any pictures here, take a look at the entry for today
> in my weblog.
>

Sorry forgot the mention of tghe web-log:

http://wijnmaker.web-log.nl/

I left the mixer in a bucket of solution. I"m thinking that is what
did the corroding not the wine. That actually makes me feel better
about the wine itself, since most of the corrosion and subsequent
sloughing off of the coating was probably in the bucket not the wine.

Thanks!

Rick

A lesson to be learned here. When handling food (drink) use food grade
utensels and containers. There are reasons for the food grade rating. If
it was only for personal consumption, do what you want to your body. But if
you share it with others, shame on you. Don't make your point by
endangering others. In that case you are as bad as the guy with the
dangerous TB getting on a plane with others because he needed to go
somewhere. Rick is doing the right thing. Checking.

Ray