Asking only in theory.

I am not interested in getting the most alcohol out of my wine.
I am not interested in finding out the potential alcohol in my wine.
I plan on keeping my wine in my secondary long after the yeast is
finished.

do I need to use my hydrometer?

> I am not interested in getting the most alcohol out of my wine.
is this from a kit, or fresh fruit/grapes ?

> I am not interested in finding out the potential alcohol in my wine.
according to previous assumption, then there are ranges acceptable for
starting gravities.
also, acid contnet is a desired factor.

> I plan on keeping my wine in my secondary long after the yeast is
> finished.
depending upon the initial gravity, yeast style, temperature conditions
during fermentation,
this could take years, though may turn out to be the best you have ever
sampled.

> do I need to use my hydrometer?
refer above. if any of these changes are able to enable a renewed
fermentation
after bottling, then i would say no.
would you prefer to have a cellar of possible exploding bottles?

you decide whether a $5 dollar investment is worth the time and money
expended.
cheers

tks
scott

On Mar 17, 3:36 pm, "Scott" > wrote:
>
> is this from a kit, or fresh fruit/grapes ?

lets assume fruit, with the acid balanced out(I might need to re-read
the directions on this)

> according to previous assumption, then there are ranges acceptable for
> starting gravities.
> also, acid contnet is a desired factor.
>
> > I plan on keeping my wine in my secondary long after the yeast is
> > finished.
>
> depending upon the initial gravity, yeast style, temperature conditions
> during fermentation,
> this could take years, though may turn out to be the best you have ever
> sampled.

that would be a lot of refilling of the airlock assume a fairly
warm environment, good yeast, to speed this up from years to months.

> > do I need to use my hydrometer?
>
> refer above. if any of these changes are able to enable a renewed
> fermentation
> after bottling, then i would say no.
> would you prefer to have a cellar of possible exploding bottles?

I was going to make a post about that, since it seems to be one of the
failures that i'd like to avoid. are we sure the hydrometer will stop
it from happening?

> you decide whether a $5 dollar investment is worth the time and money

the $5 isnt the issue, as the hydrometer came with the kit. I am
trying to get the theory down straight as to what is happening, what
tools are needed, what tools are helpfull, and what tools avoid
certain problems.

also, as per the other post, what tools can be skipped while waiting
for your replacement hydrometer to show up from mail order

I think the bare minimum you can hope to get away with a

reasonable sanitation
a primary fermenter
a secondary fermenter and airlock
a hydrometer
decent ingredients

My belief is that you can do without any of these core items, but you'd be getting away with it when it's good and
failing to reach the standard the rest of the time. There's no point taking extra chances when it is so easy to make a
basic measurement and be confident that you are likely to end up with a fair wine each time.

Jim



"Tater" > wrote in message oups.com...
> On Mar 17, 3:36 pm, "Scott" > wrote:
>>
>> is this from a kit, or fresh fruit/grapes ?
>
> lets assume fruit, with the acid balanced out(I might need to re-read
> the directions on this)
>
>> according to previous assumption, then there are ranges acceptable for
>> starting gravities.
>> also, acid contnet is a desired factor.
>>
>> > I plan on keeping my wine in my secondary long after the yeast is
>> > finished.
>>
>> depending upon the initial gravity, yeast style, temperature conditions
>> during fermentation,
>> this could take years, though may turn out to be the best you have ever
>> sampled.
>
> that would be a lot of refilling of the airlock assume a fairly
> warm environment, good yeast, to speed this up from years to months.
>
>> > do I need to use my hydrometer?
>>
>> refer above. if any of these changes are able to enable a renewed
>> fermentation
>> after bottling, then i would say no.
>> would you prefer to have a cellar of possible exploding bottles?
>
> I was going to make a post about that, since it seems to be one of the
> failures that i'd like to avoid. are we sure the hydrometer will stop
> it from happening?
>
>> you decide whether a $5 dollar investment is worth the time and money
>
> the $5 isnt the issue, as the hydrometer came with the kit. I am
> trying to get the theory down straight as to what is happening, what
> tools are needed, what tools are helpfull, and what tools avoid
> certain problems.
>
> also, as per the other post, what tools can be skipped while waiting
> for your replacement hydrometer to show up from mail order
>

On Mar 17, 4:36 pm, "jim" > wrote:
> I think the bare minimum you can hope to get away with a
>
> reasonable sanitation
> a primary fermenter
> a secondary fermenter and airlock
> a hydrometer
> decent ingredients
>
> My belief is that you can do without any of these core items, but you'd be getting away with it when it's good and
> failing to reach the standard the rest of the time. There's no point taking extra chances when it is so easy to make a
> basic measurement and be confident that you are likely to end up with a fair wine each time.
>
> Jim
>
> > also, as per the other post, what tools can be skipped while waiting
> > for your replacement hydrometer to show up from mail order- Hide quoted text -

yeah, thanks jim. the winemaking kit i got has ALL this STUFF and i'm
trying to sort it out, both from a functional level and a skill level.
I'll admit that from the instructions, it seems that every step start
with "check your wine with a hydrometer" then goes onto with some
unrelated process.

> > My belief is that you can do without any of these core items, but you'd be getting away with it when it's good and
> > failing to reach the standard the rest of the time. There's no point taking extra chances when it is so easy to make a
> > basic measurement and be confident that you are likely to end up with a fair wine each time.
> yeah, thanks jim. the winemaking kit i got has ALL this STUFF and i'm
> trying to sort it out, both from a functional level and a skill level.
> I'll admit that from the instructions, it seems that every step start
> with "check your wine with a hydrometer" then goes onto with some
> unrelated process

Checking something for no reason is idiotic, agreed. Those are just
bad instructions though.

Making wine from fruit without a hydrometer may be difficult,
especially if you want to make something similar from year to year.
All you will have to gauge things by is memory and initial taste. If
you were making wine from grapes or especially kits or corrected
juice, you may not need one if you have a sensitive palate and train
it on what you like and dislike at different stages of winemaking.
Sugar and acids in any fruit are dependant on a wide variety of
factors. On the other hand, grapes that taste good for the most part
have enough sugar and low enough acid to make drinkable wines.

Most fruit wines are made a little sweet to begin with but the alcohol
level is on the low side; 10% is generally accepted as the minimum
alcohol level for a wine to keep. If you are making a gallon or so at
a time and drinking it within months none of this matters, just keep
good notes. Over 10% in a fruit wine usually starts to mask the fruit
flavors.

I for one think the hydrometer is the most valuable tool you have
besides your senses; it can provide a reality check of your senses
which are also affected by a wide variety of factors. Fruit wines in
general require more skill than grape wine as I see it. Making a
balanced wine from fruit requires insight; making it hit or miss from
grapes is a whole lot easier.

The hydrometer give you a rough idea of the mount of sugar in the
juice; that is valuable. Something with lower sugar and lower acid
can taste similar to something with higher sugar and higher acid. On
the converse, you can have something that tastes very sweet because
the acid is low. The hydrometer helps you sort that out. Most wine
start out at around 20% sugar and less that 1% acids; that smaller
amount of acid affects the taste quite a bit.

I have never seen a cork-able bottle explode and I have made thousands
of bottles of wine; usually you have the cork come out first. Then
again, I use a lot of test equipment, I like that aspect of
winemaking.

Joe

I know what you mean,

I never use a hydrometer as I never could get repeatable readings that
were what I felt accurate.

If I am making from scratch from fruit, I research a few recipes can
get an idea of amt. of sugar for a batch, For whine I use the 5 gal.
pails of fresh juice that I get from Stupor-Store as I feel (for no
scientifically proven reason) that concentrating must take something
away from full volume fresh.

I use the sight method for whine, beer and mead, when it is crystal
clear and the air lock is flat then I rack one last time and bulk age
for at least 3+ months.

I feel the trick for very succdessful brewing is get far enough ahead
of yourself that the product you are presently making wouldn't be
needed for a extended period of time. After years and tears, I have
come to the conclusion that time is most important as far as quality
results are concerned, with a decent recipe of course.

I would like to try an alcohol refractometer to see what the finish
actual alc. content is, but hey It's the drinking not the making for
me.

Thousands will disagree lol

cheers

>
> I would like to try an alcohol refractometer to see what the finish
> actual alc. content is, but hey It's the drinking not the making for
> me.

What is that? Refractometers are for unfermented products and cost 10
times what a hydrometer costs. Do you mean a vinometer? They work
pretty well on dry wine.

Joe

Without a hydrometer you have no sure way of determining if the wine
is done fermenting. Keeping it in the secondary fermenter long after
you *think* it's done fermenting works *most* of the time ... :-)

Using a hydrometer works 100% of the time. It eliminates guessing.

I don't always get a clear reading from the hydrometer, especially in
the early stages with chunks of fruit floating around in a carbonated
slurry. But when it reads 0.996 or less I know fermentation is done.
Rebottling 200 bottles 'cuz it started fermenting again 4 months later
cured me of not checking! ROFL!

My $0.02 ...

Bryan



On 17 Mar 2007 13:28:40 -0700, "Tater" > wrote:

>Asking only in theory.
>
>I am not interested in getting the most alcohol out of my wine.
>I am not interested in finding out the potential alcohol in my wine.
>I plan on keeping my wine in my secondary long after the yeast is
>finished.
>
>do I need to use my hydrometer?

When you want the most alcohol you can get, the hydrometer is not really
necesary. Your just need to feet the yeast as long as it will eat and that
is the most you can get.

When you want to make a good wine rather than a pain killer, that is when
you need a hydromert. I will admit that if you are making a kit, the
instructions often have you playing with your hydrometer much more than you
need to.

Here is the proceedure I use:

I use the hydrometer at the start to set the right sugar content to get
aproximately the alcohol level I want. Usually between 11 and 12.5%.

Then when the fermentation slows down, I check the hydrometer reading before
moving it from primary to secondary. If it is down below 1.010 and
fermentation is slow, everything is going fine and I rack it. If the
fermentation is slow and the SG is high then I start wondering what is wrong
and start watching for a stuck ferment.

Then after fermentation stops and it has set in the secondary for a week or
two with no activity, I use the hydrometer to make sure fermentation has
really finished properly (not a stuck ferment) and I rack it off the leas.

Now there may be a few other times I might use a hydrometer, mostly out of
curiosity, like if I am adjusting the sweetness (which is really done by
taste) but the above is the primary use I make of a hydrometer. I consider
it essential to get my wine right. But you may develope a proceedure where
by you avoid it's use. It is up to you.

Ray

"Tater" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Asking only in theory.
>
> I am not interested in getting the most alcohol out of my wine.
> I am not interested in finding out the potential alcohol in my wine.
> I plan on keeping my wine in my secondary long after the yeast is
> finished.
>
> do I need to use my hydrometer?
>

> Then when the fermentation slows down, I check the hydrometer reading before
> moving it from primary to secondary. If it is down below 1.010 and
> fermentation is slow, everything is going fine and I rack it. If the
> fermentation is slow and the SG is high then I start wondering what is wrong
> and start watching for a stuck ferment.


Ray,
Do you primary ferment in a pail? I never understood the rack at
1.010 thing unless it's to get the wine away from air; if you are
already in a carboy it seems like a step you don't need. Do you stir
up the lees or just rack and leave the gross lees back? Just curious,
maybe this should be another thread.

Joe

I always do primary in a pail. I was taught that the yeast need the oxygen
early on for reproduction and I have never had trouble with the meathodology
so I continue to use it. Do I stir befor racking out of primary? Now there
is a proceedure I have been rethinking. If I am fermenting on pulp,
absolutely not. If it is just juice, in the past I didi not. But I have
had a few batch's of juice stick after racking. Jack Keller suggested than
this may be because I was not bringing over enough yeast. Lately I have
been stirring a bit before racking or in some cases just moving everything
to secondary and I have not had the problem.

Ray

"Joe Sallustio" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Then when the fermentation slows down, I check the hydrometer reading
>> before
>> moving it from primary to secondary. If it is down below 1.010 and
>> fermentation is slow, everything is going fine and I rack it. If the
>> fermentation is slow and the SG is high then I start wondering what is
>> wrong
>> and start watching for a stuck ferment.
>
>
> Ray,
> Do you primary ferment in a pail? I never understood the rack at
> 1.010 thing unless it's to get the wine away from air; if you are
> already in a carboy it seems like a step you don't need. Do you stir
> up the lees or just rack and leave the gross lees back? Just curious,
> maybe this should be another thread.
>
> Joe
>

If I am fermenting on pulp,
> absolutely not. If it is just juice, in the past I didi not. But I have
> had a few batch's of juice stick after racking. Jack Keller suggested than
> this may be because I was not bringing over enough yeast. Lately I have
> been stirring a bit before racking or in some cases just moving everything
> to secondary and I have not had the problem.

Sounds like we do pretty much the same thing. I do more juice than
grapes so those always get stirred now for the same reason, I had a
few stick.

Joe

On Mar 19, 2:56 pm, "Joe Sallustio" > wrote:
>
> Ray,
> Do you primary ferment in a pail? I never understood the rack at
> 1.010 thing unless it's to get the wine away from air; if you are
> already in a carboy it seems like a step you don't need. Do you stir
> up the lees or just rack and leave the gross lees back? Just curious,
> maybe this should be another thread.
>
> Joe

My understanding is this practice came out from the kit world, the
primary reason being to protect the wine from air exposure when it
starts slowing down. I think there as a secondary reason - either to
leave behind the bentonite that used to be added in the beginning of
the ferment or to start the clarification process, or both. But the
basic issue is as you said it - since the wine started from juice with
no solids is fermenting in a pail, it needs to be racked into a carboy
while the ferment is still vigorous. If you start in a carboy, there
is no reason to rack at this stage.

I've also had 1-2 stuck fermentations doing it that way but usually
when I left the racking step until later - around 1.000. If it's just
juice, I don't see an issue with stirring the whole thing just before
racking or alternatively pouring some part of the lees from the bottom
of the pail into the carboy after the racking. With pulp it might be a
different story but then at 1.010 there will still be a solid cap so
racking is pretty much a non-issue at that stage.

Pp