I always wonder over this, particularly when removal of a strainer bag
of fruit is also concerned...but...generally speaking.....

How long is the ideal amount of time that should elapse between the
last stir of the primary to the first rack of the primary?

I have seen caveats against losing too much goodness in the must at
the bottom, and likewise one doesn't want to rack everything off from
primary to secondary, or why rack at all? What is the perfect middle
ground?

Sean

Complicated question with no simple answer. Here are the rules I live by.
(Unless I decide to break them.)

1) If I am fermenting juice with no pulp (such as white grape or straight
mead) I would rack when the fermentation slows down and SG drops below 1.015

2) When fermenting pulp where skin contact is not important (most fruit
wines) I would rack after fermentation dies down AND the cap falls.

3) When fermenting on skins where skin contact is important (most red grape
wines) I delay the racking as long as possible but not so long that it
endangers the wine from oxidation. Some will go so far as trickling CO2
into the primary to maintain a protective gas layer beyond where natural
fermentation is sufficient. Others will use a floating head primary. I
will sometimes put plastic rack down on top of the juice as a separator sort
of like a floating head. Even so When the fermentation drops down to 1.000
I move it to secondary.

4) If the fruit has seeds that may add off flavors I will often try to get
the wine off earlier than indicated above.

This may not be the hard and fast rules you might hope far but wine making
is not a hard and fast type of activity the the rules work for me.

Ray

"snpm" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>I always wonder over this, particularly when removal of a strainer bag
> of fruit is also concerned...but...generally speaking.....
>
> How long is the ideal amount of time that should elapse between the
> last stir of the primary to the first rack of the primary?
>
> I have seen caveats against losing too much goodness in the must at
> the bottom, and likewise one doesn't want to rack everything off from
> primary to secondary, or why rack at all? What is the perfect middle
> ground?
>
> Sean
>

Thank Ray, that is all valuable food for thought.....I wonder though,
you make no mention of how long before your rackings you perform your
last daily (or bi-daily) stir of the primary...that is the heart of
the question I was trying to ask....do you have any rules you follow
on that?

Sean



On Mar 16, 10:15 am, "Ray Calvert" > wrote:
> Complicated question with no simple answer. Here are the rules I live by.
> (Unless I decide to break them.)
>
> 1) If I am fermenting juice with no pulp (such as white grape or straight
> mead) I would rack when the fermentation slows down and SG drops below 1.015
>
> 2) When fermenting pulp where skin contact is not important (most fruit
> wines) I would rack after fermentation dies down AND the cap falls.
>
> 3) When fermenting on skins where skin contact is important (most red grape
> wines) I delay the racking as long as possible but not so long that it
> endangers the wine from oxidation. Some will go so far as trickling CO2
> into the primary to maintain a protective gas layer beyond where natural
> fermentation is sufficient. Others will use a floating head primary. I
> will sometimes put plastic rack down on top of the juice as a separator sort
> of like a floating head. Even so When the fermentation drops down to 1.000
> I move it to secondary.
>
> 4) If the fruit has seeds that may add off flavors I will often try to get
> the wine off earlier than indicated above.
>
> This may not be the hard and fast rules you might hope far but wine making
> is not a hard and fast type of activity the the rules work for me.
>
> Ray
>
> "snpm" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
> >I always wonder over this, particularly when removal of a strainer bag
> > of fruit is also concerned...but...generally speaking.....
>
> > How long is the ideal amount of time that should elapse between the
> > last stir of the primary to the first rack of the primary?
>
> > I have seen caveats against losing too much goodness in the must at
> > the bottom, and likewise one doesn't want to rack everything off from
> > primary to secondary, or why rack at all? What is the perfect middle
> > ground?
>
> > Sean- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hello.

For1 gallon demijohns I transfer the contents of the primary rather than racking to the secondary. I always use a
straining bag to hold the fruit etc that I am using (or have strained into the primary for non fruit recipes) and by and
large find that I usually have a few ml left in the primary with any heavier bits once transferred. That way, there's
little in the way of gross matter getting in to the secondary.

When I rack to secondary (for 5 gallon batches where I can't currently safely lift and pour from primary) I give the
whole lot a stir then wait till the wine is still again, then rack. My thinking is that that way the heaviest bits will
have a chance to sink, but there should be a healthy dose of sedimentary yeast still in suspension.

Jim

"snpm" > wrote in message oups.com...
> Thank Ray, that is all valuable food for thought.....I wonder though,
> you make no mention of how long before your rackings you perform your
> last daily (or bi-daily) stir of the primary...that is the heart of
> the question I was trying to ask....do you have any rules you follow
> on that?
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> On Mar 16, 10:15 am, "Ray Calvert" > wrote:
>> Complicated question with no simple answer. Here are the rules I live by.
>> (Unless I decide to break them.)
>>
>> 1) If I am fermenting juice with no pulp (such as white grape or straight
>> mead) I would rack when the fermentation slows down and SG drops below 1.015
>>
>> 2) When fermenting pulp where skin contact is not important (most fruit
>> wines) I would rack after fermentation dies down AND the cap falls.
>>
>> 3) When fermenting on skins where skin contact is important (most red grape
>> wines) I delay the racking as long as possible but not so long that it
>> endangers the wine from oxidation. Some will go so far as trickling CO2
>> into the primary to maintain a protective gas layer beyond where natural
>> fermentation is sufficient. Others will use a floating head primary. I
>> will sometimes put plastic rack down on top of the juice as a separator sort
>> of like a floating head. Even so When the fermentation drops down to 1.000
>> I move it to secondary.
>>
>> 4) If the fruit has seeds that may add off flavors I will often try to get
>> the wine off earlier than indicated above.
>>
>> This may not be the hard and fast rules you might hope far but wine making
>> is not a hard and fast type of activity the the rules work for me.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> "snpm" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> >I always wonder over this, particularly when removal of a strainer bag
>> > of fruit is also concerned...but...generally speaking.....
>>
>> > How long is the ideal amount of time that should elapse between the
>> > last stir of the primary to the first rack of the primary?
>>
>> > I have seen caveats against losing too much goodness in the must at
>> > the bottom, and likewise one doesn't want to rack everything off from
>> > primary to secondary, or why rack at all? What is the perfect middle
>> > ground?
>>
>> > Sean- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>

If there is a cap, I stir 2 or 3 times a day. I stop or stir no more than 1
time a day after the cap has fallen. If there is no cap because I am
fermenting juice, I stir once or twice a day. Incidentally, many consider
that the cap falling is the signal to rack. I would not argue with this.

Ray

"snpm" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thank Ray, that is all valuable food for thought.....I wonder though,
> you make no mention of how long before your rackings you perform your
> last daily (or bi-daily) stir of the primary...that is the heart of
> the question I was trying to ask....do you have any rules you follow
> on that?
>
> Sean
>
>
>
> On Mar 16, 10:15 am, "Ray Calvert" > wrote:
>> Complicated question with no simple answer. Here are the rules I live
>> by.
>> (Unless I decide to break them.)
>>
>> 1) If I am fermenting juice with no pulp (such as white grape or
>> straight
>> mead) I would rack when the fermentation slows down and SG drops below
>> 1.015
>>
>> 2) When fermenting pulp where skin contact is not important (most fruit
>> wines) I would rack after fermentation dies down AND the cap falls.
>>
>> 3) When fermenting on skins where skin contact is important (most red
>> grape
>> wines) I delay the racking as long as possible but not so long that it
>> endangers the wine from oxidation. Some will go so far as trickling CO2
>> into the primary to maintain a protective gas layer beyond where natural
>> fermentation is sufficient. Others will use a floating head primary. I
>> will sometimes put plastic rack down on top of the juice as a separator
>> sort
>> of like a floating head. Even so When the fermentation drops down to
>> 1.000
>> I move it to secondary.
>>
>> 4) If the fruit has seeds that may add off flavors I will often try to
>> get
>> the wine off earlier than indicated above.
>>
>> This may not be the hard and fast rules you might hope far but wine
>> making
>> is not a hard and fast type of activity the the rules work for me.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>> "snpm" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> >I always wonder over this, particularly when removal of a strainer bag
>> > of fruit is also concerned...but...generally speaking.....
>>
>> > How long is the ideal amount of time that should elapse between the
>> > last stir of the primary to the first rack of the primary?
>>
>> > I have seen caveats against losing too much goodness in the must at
>> > the bottom, and likewise one doesn't want to rack everything off from
>> > primary to secondary, or why rack at all? What is the perfect middle
>> > ground?
>>
>> > Sean- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>