Jack Keller’s instructions on how to make yeast starters
(http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/feeding.asp) suggests that a total of
less than a cup of must/juice should be added during the starter’s long
time of creation. I realize that his instructions are based on a
professional's advice, but how different would it be to make the
starter, add a cup of juice, and pitch the next day? Is it worth the hassle?

Is it possible to do like above, but add all of the syrup (diluted) you
would normally add to the juice/must? I am wondering if I could ferment
the syrup’s sugar first and delay the time my juice is exposed to the air.

I'd actually disagree with those instructions at least in 1 point - if
I read them correctly, there is a 4hr period where the yeast is just
sitting in water with nothing else. Lallemand specifically says this
should not be longer than 1/2 hr as after this the yeast starts dying
from the lack of nutrients.

This is what works for me - I can usually get a strong and healthy
starter going in 4-6 hrs this way:

- dry yeast rehydrated in 10x times warm water per yeast manufacturer's
instructions, add GoFerm to water before adding yeast, _don't_ add
other yeast nutrients, specifically anything that contains DAP

- 15-30 mins after add 1 cup or so of juice diluted with 1/2 cup of
water, heated up close to the temperature of the yeast mixture

- pitch when the starter is going strong. Lower down its temperature to
within 5F of the must by slowly diluting with the must and/or slowly
cooling it down in a water bath. This is the only tricky part as you
don't want to shock the yeast by rapid changes in temperature.

I'm not sure what you mean by adding syrup - are you talking about
using sugar syrup instead of juice? That could be problematic as yeast
needs other things that just sugar to grow - vitamins and minerals -
you won't have those in sugar syrup. If you really want to add the
starter as soon as you have the juice, you can make the starter with
table grape juice in advance.

Pp


Wine Enthusiast wrote:
> Jack Keller's instructions on how to make yeast starters
> (http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/feeding.asp) suggests that a total of
> less than a cup of must/juice should be added during the starter's long
> time of creation. I realize that his instructions are based on a
> professional's advice, but how different would it be to make the
> starter, add a cup of juice, and pitch the next day? Is it worth the hassle?
>
> Is it possible to do like above, but add all of the syrup (diluted) you
> would normally add to the juice/must? I am wondering if I could ferment
> the syrup's sugar first and delay the time my juice is exposed to the air.

I mean simple syrup (granulated sugar and water), but I don't want to
replace the juice. The instructions suggest to use juice in the starter,
but I want to know if syrup, which is usually added to the majority of
must/juice, could be fermented in the starter before the majority of the
juice would be added. In other words, the rest of the juice is all I
want to add to a strong starter in order to speed up fermentation. Possible?

pp wrote:
> I'd actually disagree with those instructions at least in 1 point - if
> I read them correctly, there is a 4hr period where the yeast is just
> sitting in water with nothing else. Lallemand specifically says this
> should not be longer than 1/2 hr as after this the yeast starts dying
> from the lack of nutrients.
>
> This is what works for me - I can usually get a strong and healthy
> starter going in 4-6 hrs this way:
>
> - dry yeast rehydrated in 10x times warm water per yeast manufacturer's
> instructions, add GoFerm to water before adding yeast, _don't_ add
> other yeast nutrients, specifically anything that contains DAP
>
> - 15-30 mins after add 1 cup or so of juice diluted with 1/2 cup of
> water, heated up close to the temperature of the yeast mixture
>
> - pitch when the starter is going strong. Lower down its temperature to
> within 5F of the must by slowly diluting with the must and/or slowly
> cooling it down in a water bath. This is the only tricky part as you
> don't want to shock the yeast by rapid changes in temperature.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by adding syrup - are you talking about
> using sugar syrup instead of juice? That could be problematic as yeast
> needs other things that just sugar to grow - vitamins and minerals -
> you won't have those in sugar syrup. If you really want to add the
> starter as soon as you have the juice, you can make the starter with
> table grape juice in advance.
>
> Pp
>
>
> Wine Enthusiast wrote:
>> Jack Keller's instructions on how to make yeast starters
>> (http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/feeding.asp) suggests that a total of
>> less than a cup of must/juice should be added during the starter's long
>> time of creation. I realize that his instructions are based on a
>> professional's advice, but how different would it be to make the
>> starter, add a cup of juice, and pitch the next day? Is it worth the hassle?
>>
>> Is it possible to do like above, but add all of the syrup (diluted) you
>> would normally add to the juice/must? I am wondering if I could ferment
>> the syrup's sugar first and delay the time my juice is exposed to the air.
>

I thought I'd already answered that? Here is the relevant part again:

That could be problematic as yeast
needs other things that just sugar to grow - vitamins and minerals -
you won't have those in sugar syrup.

So essentially, you're running a risk of weakening the yeast culture,
which kind of defeats the whole purpose of making a starter. The juice
will be fine for the relatively short time it will take to build the
starter.

Pp

On Jan 22, 3:41 pm, Wine Enthusiast > wrote:
> I mean simple syrup (granulated sugar and water), but I don't want to
> replace the juice. The instructions suggest to use juice in the starter,
> but I want to know if syrup, which is usually added to the majority of
> must/juice, could be fermented in the starter before the majority of the
> juice would be added. In other words, the rest of the juice is all I
> want to add to a strong starter in order to speed up fermentation. Possible?
>

Jack Keller talks about:
The preferred method of adding an ADY culture to a must...

What does ADY stand for?

Guy

Active Dry (Dried?) Yeast

Pp

On Jan 23, 10:58 am, "guy" > wrote:
>
> What does ADY stand for?
>
> Guy

On Jan 23, 12:44 pm, "pp" > wrote:
> I thought I'd already answered that? Here is the relevant part again:
>
> That could be problematic as yeast
> needs other things that just sugar to grow - vitamins and minerals -
> you won't have those in sugar syrup.
>
> So essentially, you're running a risk of weakening the yeast culture,
> which kind of defeats the whole purpose of making a starter. The juice
> will be fine for the relatively short time it will take to build the
> starter.
>
> Pp
>
I used to make a yeast starter with one cup of orange juice, one or two
tbs of sugar, a pinch of yeast nutrient to which I added the
re-hydrated yeast as per the yeast company. It worked great.

Guy