Many a time I read that German wine labels are difficult to read and
confusing but on the other hand, nobody rants about French labels. It seems
everyone in the World reads French. As an Asian who doesn't understand both
languages, the two are as uninterpretable. So much has been raved about the
Sauternes but only few have heard about the Trockenbeerenauslese which is as
tasty. Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? Somehow the
whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from France,
paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality,
wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a lot
less. In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
when they realized the top wine voted was American. Many people's genuine
taste and liking are somewhat clouded by brands, trend and fashion. A good
example would be like some of the nouveau riches in China who bought French
classics like the Petrus to show that they are into sophisticated wine
drinking but privately drank them with some lemonade. An Italian Lambrusco
would have kept them happier for just a fraction of what they had spent.

"Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "

Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.

"Somehow the
whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from
France,
paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In
reality,
wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a
lot
less."

Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really prove your
point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive wines in the world. Only
Yquem even comes close to the release prices of most top German TBAs.

" In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
when they realized the top wine voted was American. "

Recent, or 1976?

While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate the wines of
many countries, and prize the differences. One strength that France
does have, rivaled only by maybe Italy, is the large variance in styles
that are offered at "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about
France to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region offers
a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others would offer US or
Australia as examples, but to my tastes they offer fewer expressions of
styles (especially in whites) than France.

Five things I do not like about the French or what they call their
government
1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2--In about 1943 when it was clear
the Axis was not going to run over the Allies a few back tracked and tried
to hide the deportations, work camps etc

2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China--when we kicked the Japanese out in
1945, we let the French back in--instead of granting independence---How well
did that work?

3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal--and selling to such stable governments
as North Korea, Pakistan, & Iran. Osama lives in Pakistan under tacit
acceptance by their government---if we cross the border to get him will it
sparks an overthrow of a friendly regime--do we want to give the jihads the
nukes sold to Pakistan by La Belle France

4. Letting the sale of French products like weapons and the purchase of oil
from the more anti-American countries lead to denunciation of Israel and/or
Zionism and the virtual carte blanche to bomb synagogues. Yes I know the
Rothschild are powerful but all they get is weak apologies & Lapin gets
stronger

5. (You thought I'd mention DeGaulle-nah) Getting the US & Brits involved
in the first World War over spheres of influence. If they kept their cool
in 1914 our boys never would have gone "Over There" ++++ as a bonus we got a
policy of financial retribution that destabilized Germany leading to the
rise of the Nazi's thanks to the other Allies outmaneuvering Woodrow Wilson
at Versailles.

The USA was helped by Lafayette in the late 1700's--we've been paying that
ungrateful country(see DeGaulle, Charles) with our soldiers blood ever
since. Oh yeah thanks for the Statute of Liberty, who paid to put it
up?--those cowboy US citizens the French mock. The French kept their
resources so they could plunder their colonies and afford public lynchings
like the Dreyfuss affair.

So as far as I'm concerned they can can take their Galois smokes & oeufs and
shove it. I love Bordeaux & the Rhone and the better reasonably priced
Burgs and drink them. I would not boycott them--boycotting is not an
American value but is a tradition our les Amis, Le Belle France.

So what if they sneer at our tourists while they bank our dollars. Yes they
make the world best wine and charge dearly for it while they slip some
Moroccan plonk into Burgundy bottles





"DaleW" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> "Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "
>
> Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.
>
> "Somehow the
> whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from
> France,
> paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In
> reality,
> wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a
> lot
> less."
>
> Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really prove your
> point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive wines in the world. Only
> Yquem even comes close to the release prices of most top German TBAs.
>
> " In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
> when they realized the top wine voted was American. "
>
> Recent, or 1976?
>
> While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate the wines of
> many countries, and prize the differences. One strength that France
> does have, rivaled only by maybe Italy, is the large variance in styles
> that are offered at "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about
> France to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region offers
> a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others would offer US or
> Australia as examples, but to my tastes they offer fewer expressions of
> styles (especially in whites) than France.
>

Joe wrote on Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:00:39 -0500:

JBR> 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China--when we kicked the
JBR> Japanese out in 1945, we let the French back in--instead
JBR> of granting independence---How well did that work?

JBR> 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal--and selling to such
JBR> stable governments as North Korea, Pakistan, & Iran.
JBR> Osama lives in Pakistan under tacit acceptance by their
JBR> government---if we cross the border to get him will it
JBR> sparks an overthrow of a friendly regime--do we want to
JBR> give the jihads the nukes sold to Pakistan by La Belle
JBR> France

JBR> 4. Letting the sale of French products like weapons and
JBR> the purchase of oil from the more anti-American countries
JBR> lead to denunciation of Israel and/or Zionism and the
JBR> virtual carte blanche to bomb synagogues. Yes I know the
JBR> Rothschild are powerful but all they get is weak apologies
JBR> & Lapin gets stronger

JBR> 5. (You thought I'd mention DeGaulle-nah) Getting the US
JBR> & Brits involved in the first World War over spheres of
JBR> influence. If they kept their cool in 1914 our boys never
JBR> would have gone "Over There" ++++ as a bonus we got a
JBR> policy of financial retribution that destabilized Germany
JBR> leading to the rise of the Nazi's thanks to the other
JBR> Allies outmaneuvering Woodrow Wilson at Versailles.

JBR> The USA was helped by Lafayette in the late 1700's--we've
JBR> been paying that ungrateful country(see DeGaulle, Charles)
JBR> with our soldiers blood ever since. Oh yeah thanks for the
JBR> Statute of Liberty, who paid to put it up?--those cowboy
JBR> US citizens the French mock. The French kept their
JBR> resources so they could plunder their colonies and afford
JBR> public lynchings like the Dreyfuss affair.

JBR> So as far as I'm concerned they can can take their Galois
JBR> smokes & oeufs and shove it. I love Bordeaux & the Rhone
JBR> and the better reasonably priced Burgs and drink them. I
JBR> would not boycott them--boycotting is not an American
JBR> value but is a tradition our les Amis, Le Belle France.

JBR> So what if they sneer at our tourists while they bank our
JBR> dollars. Yes they make the world best wine and charge
JBR> dearly for it while they slip some Moroccan plonk into
JBR> Burgundy bottles

JBR> "DaleW" > wrote in message
JBR>
oups.com...
??>> "Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "
??>>
??>> Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.
??>>
??>> "Somehow the
??>> whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come
??>> only from France, paying through their nose for "top"
??>> Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality, wines from Spain,
??>> Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost
??>> a lot less."
??>>
??>> Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really
??>> prove your point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive
??>> wines in the world. Only Yquem even comes close to the
??>> release prices of most top German TBAs.
??>>
??>> " In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were
??>> astonished when they realized the top wine voted was
??>> American. "
??>>
??>> Recent, or 1976?
??>>
??>> While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate
??>> the wines of many countries, and prize the differences.
??>> One strength that France does have, rivaled only by maybe
??>> Italy, is the large variance in styles that are offered at
??>> "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about France
??>> to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region
??>> offers a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others
??>> would offer US or Australia as examples, but to my tastes
??>> they offer fewer expressions of styles (especially in
??>> whites) than France.
??>>

Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today!
(Unless, the post is a forgery.)

James Silverton.

No forgery--just payback time for inflicting Maurice Chevalier on
us-Actually I was chanalling Karl Rove.............
"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net> wrote in message
. ..
> Joe wrote on Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:00:39 -0500:
>
> JBR> 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China--when we kicked the
> JBR> Japanese out in 1945, we let the French back in--instead
> JBR> of granting independence---How well did that work?
>
> JBR> 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal--and selling to such
> JBR> stable governments as North Korea, Pakistan, & Iran.
> JBR> Osama lives in Pakistan under tacit acceptance by their
> JBR> government---if we cross the border to get him will it
> JBR> sparks an overthrow of a friendly regime--do we want to
> JBR> give the jihads the nukes sold to Pakistan by La Belle
> JBR> France
>
> JBR> 4. Letting the sale of French products like weapons and
> JBR> the purchase of oil from the more anti-American countries
> JBR> lead to denunciation of Israel and/or Zionism and the
> JBR> virtual carte blanche to bomb synagogues. Yes I know the
> JBR> Rothschild are powerful but all they get is weak apologies
> JBR> & Lapin gets stronger
>
> JBR> 5. (You thought I'd mention DeGaulle-nah) Getting the US
> JBR> & Brits involved in the first World War over spheres of
> JBR> influence. If they kept their cool in 1914 our boys never
> JBR> would have gone "Over There" ++++ as a bonus we got a
> JBR> policy of financial retribution that destabilized Germany
> JBR> leading to the rise of the Nazi's thanks to the other
> JBR> Allies outmaneuvering Woodrow Wilson at Versailles.
>
> JBR> The USA was helped by Lafayette in the late 1700's--we've
> JBR> been paying that ungrateful country(see DeGaulle, Charles)
> JBR> with our soldiers blood ever since. Oh yeah thanks for the
> JBR> Statute of Liberty, who paid to put it up?--those cowboy
> JBR> US citizens the French mock. The French kept their
> JBR> resources so they could plunder their colonies and afford
> JBR> public lynchings like the Dreyfuss affair.
>
> JBR> So as far as I'm concerned they can can take their Galois
> JBR> smokes & oeufs and shove it. I love Bordeaux & the Rhone
> JBR> and the better reasonably priced Burgs and drink them. I
> JBR> would not boycott them--boycotting is not an American
> JBR> value but is a tradition our les Amis, Le Belle France.
>
> JBR> So what if they sneer at our tourists while they bank our
> JBR> dollars. Yes they make the world best wine and charge
> JBR> dearly for it while they slip some Moroccan plonk into
> JBR> Burgundy bottles
>
> JBR> "DaleW" > wrote in message
> JBR>
> oups.com...
> ??>> "Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? "
> ??>>
> ??>> Er, I think it was a Hungarian from Tokaji.
> ??>>
> ??>> "Somehow the
> ??>> whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come
> ??>> only from France, paying through their nose for "top"
> ??>> Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality, wines from Spain,
> ??>> Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost
> ??>> a lot less."
> ??>>
> ??>> Well, using botrytized wines as an example doesn't really
> ??>> prove your point- as a class TBAs are the most expensive
> ??>> wines in the world. Only Yquem even comes close to the
> ??>> release prices of most top German TBAs.
> ??>>
> ??>> " In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were
> ??>> astonished when they realized the top wine voted was
> ??>> American. "
> ??>>
> ??>> Recent, or 1976?
> ??>>
> ??>> While I am an admitted Francophile, I certainly appreciate
> ??>> the wines of many countries, and prize the differences.
> ??>> One strength that France does have, rivaled only by maybe
> ??>> Italy, is the large variance in styles that are offered at
> ??>> "world-class" quality levels. The great thing about France
> ??>> to me is not Petrus or DRC, but that almost every region
> ??>> offers a world-class wine in a unique style. I know others
> ??>> would offer US or Australia as examples, but to my tastes
> ??>> they offer fewer expressions of styles (especially in
> ??>> whites) than France.
> ??>>
>
> Joe, that must be one Lulu of a hangover to last until today!
> (Unless, the post is a forgery.)
>
> James Silverton.
>

"Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when expounding.......

> Five things I do not like about the French or what they call
> their government...

> 1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2

Hell's teeth, Joe. You conveniently forget that there were Americans who
collaborated with the Nazis.


> 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China

It was not the French who declared that the USA should become "The policeman
of the world".

Sixty years after WW2 you guys are still making stupid decisions on the name
of god and truth and right (and in the pursuit of the mighty $$$) - and
making an absolute meal of it. Wanna blame someone - take a long look in the
mirror!


> 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal.

Oh, now this is the pot calling the kettle black! Take away the armaments
industry and the US economy is f#%&*d.


> 4. Letting the sale of <clipped> products like weapons and the purchase
> of oil

Why is this different to the sale of American weapons and the US stealing
Iraqi oil?


>
> 5. Getting the US & Brits involved in the first World War....
>

I know exactly why the UK got involved and it had little to do with France.
The US sat on the fence for 3/4 of the war entirely missing the 'fun' which
was Gallipoli and the Somme among other little tiffs.

Joe, in our recent visit to France, more than once I stood in a village
square beside a memorial to those who lost their lives in WW1. I admit that
I choked back tears when I realised that in some incidences 50% of a towns
young men has perished.

With the greatest of respect Joe, tongue in cheek or not, it is about time
you got off your backside in Baltimore and crossed the Atlantic for a first
hand look-see - and leave those 'stars'n'strips' tinted spectacle behind.

You may find, like we did, that French hospitality was first class, and the
Frenchman-in-the-street could not do enough to assist us foreigners.

Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that you never
write such crap again.

Regards,

st.helier

Hey Hellier...thats the way it is in our history books....

To bad your schools don't teach the truth :-)




"st.helier" > wrote in message
...
> "Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when expounding.......
>
>> Five things I do not like about the French or what they call
>> their government...
>
>> 1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2
>
> Hell's teeth, Joe. You conveniently forget that there were Americans who
> collaborated with the Nazis.
>
>
>> 2. Getting the US stuck in Indo-China
>
> It was not the French who declared that the USA should become "The
> policeman of the world".
>
> Sixty years after WW2 you guys are still making stupid decisions on the
> name of god and truth and right (and in the pursuit of the mighty $$$) -
> and making an absolute meal of it. Wanna blame someone - take a long look
> in the mirror!
>
>
>> 3.. Development of a nuclear arsenal.
>
> Oh, now this is the pot calling the kettle black! Take away the armaments
> industry and the US economy is f#%&*d.
>
>
>> 4. Letting the sale of <clipped> products like weapons and the purchase
>> of oil
>
> Why is this different to the sale of American weapons and the US stealing
> Iraqi oil?
>
>
>>
>> 5. Getting the US & Brits involved in the first World War....
>>
>
> I know exactly why the UK got involved and it had little to do with
> France.
> The US sat on the fence for 3/4 of the war entirely missing the 'fun'
> which was Gallipoli and the Somme among other little tiffs.
>
> Joe, in our recent visit to France, more than once I stood in a village
> square beside a memorial to those who lost their lives in WW1. I admit
> that I choked back tears when I realised that in some incidences 50% of a
> towns young men has perished.
>
> With the greatest of respect Joe, tongue in cheek or not, it is about time
> you got off your backside in Baltimore and crossed the Atlantic for a
> first hand look-see - and leave those 'stars'n'strips' tinted spectacle
> behind.
>
> You may find, like we did, that French hospitality was first class, and
> the Frenchman-in-the-street could not do enough to assist us foreigners.
>
> Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that you never
> write such crap again.
>
> Regards,
>
> st.helier
>

"Richard Neidich" wrote ....

> Hey Hellier...thats the way it is in our history books....
>


Dick,

I've told you before - you really must stop reading comic books!!!!!!!!!!!

hny

st.helier

"st.helier" > wrote:

> "Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when
> expounding...

>> [...]

> Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that
> you never write such crap again.

<clapclapclap> - *very* well roared, lion!

M.

Gentleman: You've been had---- someone, not from afw, said I could not write
like a rightwinger---Using Goebbels as a role model I mixed a minimum of
facts and lots of hot button phrases. Its been a boring rain soaked day I'm
bored with American football, although I did enjoy the Notre Dame
defeat---talk about hype- I'm still ****ed they let Reagan play George Gipp.

Now 5 things I like about France.

1. They inspired the American revolution and in typical fashion got a tad
carried away
2. They were our protector from Lafayette thru Teddy Roosevelt. They
helped the US as a democracy and empire.
3. After World War I they hosted numerous Americans especially those of
colour. Spending exile time in Paris was Sidney Bechet, Josephine Baker and
many other's first breaths of freedom.. Any country that could stand James
Baldwin for more than a week, is ok by me.
4. Long before Abe Beame and Ed Koch were mayors of New York(considered a
break through) Leon Blum, a Jewish Socialist was France's Premier in the
1930's.
5. Yes St H lots of French welcomed the GI's to France, shaved the heads of
the collaborators and let the Germans buy bad wine while they hid the good
stuff. I make no moral judgments but being under the heal of the Nazi's
forced people to cooperate or starve. The Resistance began in 1939 and
never stopped,for once French of different politics united; and even if we
had to endure De Gaulle's tantrums we did the same for a real
anti-Semite--George Patton. SomeFrench like the Dutch and Scandinavians
harbored Jews from a one way ticket to the camps. Compared to the
collaboration of the Rumanians, Poles, & Austrians I don't think the French
let their humanity down.

All governments are hypocrites, not seeing that they are guilty of the same
flaws as they see in others. Its caused hubris which gets followed by
hemlock. I was in Burgundy & the Rhone and ran into some surly waiters but
you have that at the Stage deli besides that the French brought pommes
frites to America--whats not to like. Any nation that can bring Petrus,
d'Yquem & Guigal can't be all bad

The piece I did on a lunch with Hilary Clinton and Jane Fonda as seen by the
"right" is too much in bad taste even for me, so I'll give you a bit if I
can find it--you have to write me for the rest.


"Michael Pronay" > wrote in message
...
> "st.helier" > wrote:
>
> > "Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when
> > expounding...
>
> >> [...]
>
> > Hopefully, the nett effect of such personal research may be that
> > you never write such crap again.
>
> <clapclapclap> - *very* well roared, lion!
>
> M.

st.helier wrote:
> "Joe 'Beppe' Rosenberg" really let the dogs out when expounding.......
>
>
>>Five things I do not like about the French or what they call
>>their government...
>
>
>>1, Collaboration with Nazi's in World War 2
>
>
> Hell's teeth, Joe. You conveniently forget that there were Americans who
> collaborated with the Nazis.
>
>

One big difference, it was the French government that went lock step
with the Nazis. We had a few fringe groups that was all.

I see complete morons with lots of cash buying wine solely for its name
value all the time in the wine shops. Opus One, etc.

Marketing-driven idiots...


Raymond wrote:
> Many a time I read that German wine labels are difficult to read and
> confusing but on the other hand, nobody rants about French labels. It seems
> everyone in the World reads French. As an Asian who doesn't understand both
> languages, the two are as uninterpretable. So much has been raved about the
> Sauternes but only few have heard about the Trockenbeerenauslese which is as
> tasty. Who first come across botrytis? Was it not a German? Somehow the
> whole world got the impression that the "best" wines come only from France,
> paying through their nose for "top" Bordeauxs and Burgundies. In reality,
> wines from Spain, Italy, Germany etc are as good in quality and cost a lot
> less. In a recent blind tasting in France, French judges were astonished
> when they realized the top wine voted was American. Many people's genuine
> taste and liking are somewhat clouded by brands, trend and fashion. A good
> example would be like some of the nouveau riches in China who bought French
> classics like the Petrus to show that they are into sophisticated wine
> drinking but privately drank them with some lemonade. An Italian Lambrusco
> would have kept them happier for just a fraction of what they had spent.