I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I was
very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
this style of Zin.

2001 Klinker Brick, Lodi, Old Vines
Medium dark. Nice nose with strawberry and raspberry. Big raseberry,
strawberry, overripe fruit, which finished towards licorice, high acid,
moderate tannins, long fruity, hot finish. Would be great wine if the
fruit was not so overripe. Price $16. Alcohol 15.4%. Not rated.

2002 Chase, St. Helena, Napa, Hayne Vineyard.
Medium dark. Nose was tight with hints of berries. Furit flavors were
mainly slightly overripe raspberry and strawberry, high acid, moderate
tannins, and a long finish. This wine had bland fruit, but was only
slightly overripe. Price $38. Alcohol 14.5. Not rated.

2002 Branham, Rock Pile
Dark. Tight nose with hints of strawberry. Fruit flavors were mainly
raspberry and strawberry, moderate acid, moderate tannin, and a long
fruity finish. This was the one Zin that did not taste overripe or hot
to me, and was therefore my favorite, even though I was not very
enthusiastic about it. Price $29. Alcohol 14.1. My rating 85.

2002 Adelaida, Pasa Robles
Medium garnet. Closed nose with hints of raspberry. Fruit flavors were
overripe raspberry, strawberry, turning to chocolate, high acid,
moderate tannins, long finish. This is another wine that would be nice,
if the fruit was not so overripe. Price $21.Alcohol 14.1. Not rated.

2001 Joseph Swan, Lone Redwood Ranch
Very dark. Tight nose with some raspberry and strawberry and hints of
black pepper. The fruit flavors were very odd on this wine. It had
bright red strawberry and cherry flavors in front, and then it seemed
to turn sweet, high acid, moderate tannins, long hot finish. I really
think this wine has residual sugar, which would be amazing considering
the alcohol. This was my least favorite. Price $23. Alcohol 15.3. Not
rated.

When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style of
Zin that consumers want?

Are there really a lot of consumers that like this style of wine?

I have recently tasted some Zins from Ravenswood, and they do not seem
to be quite so over the top.

------------------------------------
Mike's Wine Blog
http://mikeswinecellar.blogspot.com

> wrote in message
oups.com...

> I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I was
> very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
> alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
> this style of Zin.
> .......
> When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style of
> Zin that consumers want?
> .......

(To the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club...
P-A R K-E R That's the stuff that sells!)

pavane

pavane wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
> > I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I
was
> > very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
> > alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
> > this style of Zin.
> > .......
> > When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style
of
> > Zin that consumers want?
> > .......
>
> (To the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club...
> P-A R K-E R That's the stuff that sells!)
>
> pavane

My first recollection of Zin's becoming ultra-ripe and over the top was
when I first tasted a 1996 Turley Hayne Vineyard Zin that was quite
saturated and sweet with a very Port like structure. I just checked
and Parker gave that wine 97 points with most of Turley's Zin's
recieving scores in the mid to high 90's so I agree with Pavane's
comments. Since that time I've tasted scores of over the top zinfandel
with the 1998 Martinelli Jackass Hill Zin (Parker 97 points) being at
the top of the monstrosity scale at a whopping 17% alcohol and the
consistancy of cough syrup. FWIW, Parker raves about Martinelli
zinfandel's placing them at the top of all producers. I have seen a
shift back towards more reasonable zinfandel in the last few years with
a more traditional style.

"Bi!!" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> pavane wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> >
> > > I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I
> was
> > > very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
> > > alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
> > > this style of Zin.
> > > .......
> > > When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style
> of
> > > Zin that consumers want?
> > > .......
> >
> > (To the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club...
> > P-A R K-E R That's the stuff that sells!)
> >
> > pavane
>
> My first recollection of Zin's becoming ultra-ripe and over the top was
> when I first tasted a 1996 Turley Hayne Vineyard Zin that was quite
> saturated and sweet with a very Port like structure. I just checked
> and Parker gave that wine 97 points with most of Turley's Zin's
> recieving scores in the mid to high 90's so I agree with Pavane's
> comments. Since that time I've tasted scores of over the top zinfandel
> with the 1998 Martinelli Jackass Hill Zin (Parker 97 points) being at
> the top of the monstrosity scale at a whopping 17% alcohol and the
> consistancy of cough syrup. FWIW, Parker raves about Martinelli
> zinfandel's placing them at the top of all producers. I have seen a
> shift back towards more reasonable zinfandel in the last few years with
> a more traditional style.
>

"...the top of the monstrosity scale" is a lovely descriptor for that
style of winemaking. But I have found that most of the classic makers
stick with a rather moderate approach; it is just that glamour has its
appeal and there is nothing glamorous about discussing Loonies or
Grgich or Frogs Leap or Murphy-Goode. I have my Biale stored away,
to bring out at the proper occasion which is usually not a for a good
food and wine match.

pavane

"pavane" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Bi!!" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > pavane wrote:
> > > > wrote in message
> > > oups.com...
> > >
> > > > I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I
> > was
> > > > very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
> > > > alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
> > > > this style of Zin.
> > > > .......
> > > > When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style
> > of
> > > > Zin that consumers want?
> > > > .......
> > >
> > > (To the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club...
> > > P-A R K-E R That's the stuff that sells!)
> > >
> > > pavane
> >
> > My first recollection of Zin's becoming ultra-ripe and over the top was
> > when I first tasted a 1996 Turley Hayne Vineyard Zin that was quite
> > saturated and sweet with a very Port like structure. I just checked
> > and Parker gave that wine 97 points with most of Turley's Zin's
> > recieving scores in the mid to high 90's so I agree with Pavane's
> > comments. Since that time I've tasted scores of over the top zinfandel
> > with the 1998 Martinelli Jackass Hill Zin (Parker 97 points) being at
> > the top of the monstrosity scale at a whopping 17% alcohol and the
> > consistancy of cough syrup. FWIW, Parker raves about Martinelli
> > zinfandel's placing them at the top of all producers. I have seen a
> > shift back towards more reasonable zinfandel in the last few years with
> > a more traditional style.
> >
>
> "...the top of the monstrosity scale" is a lovely descriptor for that
> style of winemaking. But I have found that most of the classic makers
> stick with a rather moderate approach; it is just that glamour has its
> appeal and there is nothing glamorous about discussing Loonies or
> Grgich or Frogs Leap or Murphy-Goode. I have my Biale stored away,
> to bring out at the proper occasion which is usually not a for a good
> food and wine match.
>
> pavane
>

Sorry, Spellchecker changed "Lolonis" to "Loonies." How weird.

pavane

In article >,
says...
[SNIP]
>Sorry, Spellchecker changed "Lolonis" to "Loonies." How weird.
>
>pavane

I recall that in the "old days," WordPerfect offered several spell-checkers:
legal, medical, multi-national, etc. I do not recall a "wine" add-on though!
<G>

BTW glad to see someone else, who appreciates Robert Biale's Zins.

For Super Concentrated, one might wish to search out the Edmeades Alden Ranch
(2001 IIRC). I do not believe that anyone could top that one, unless it was a
Port-style wine from Zin. OTOH, I like most well-made Zins from the Alden
Ranch to some of much lighter, earthier styles, and have examples of the
entire spectrum, which I enjoy, each in its own setting.

Hunt

In article >,
says...
[SNIP]
>Sorry, Spellchecker changed "Lolonis" to "Loonies." How weird.
>
>pavane

I recall that in the "old days," WordPerfect offered several spell-checkers:
legal, medical, multi-national, etc. I do not recall a "wine" add-on though!
<G>

BTW glad to see someone else, who appreciates Robert Biale's Zins.

For Super Concentrated, one might wish to search out the Edmeades Alden Ranch
(2001 IIRC). I do not believe that anyone could top that one, unless it was a
Port-style wine from Zin. OTOH, I like most well-made Zins from the Alden
Ranch to some of much lighter, earthier styles, and have examples of the
entire spectrum, which I enjoy, each in its own setting.

Hunt

in article , pavane at
wrote on 3/24/05 7:16 AM:
<snip>
> But I have found that most of the classic makers
> stick with a rather moderate approach; it is just that glamour has its
> appeal and there is nothing glamorous about discussing Loonies or
> Grgich or Frogs Leap or Murphy-Goode. I have my Biale stored away,
> to bring out at the proper occasion which is usually not a for a good
> food and wine match.
>
> pavane


Through a visit to the winery (Alameda, CA) and also the intense interest of
a friend, I have recently become 'immersed' in Rosumblum Zins. Two of them,
in particular: '02 Harris Kratka and '02 Monte Rosso, we tasted and they
seem to be incredibly smooth and fruity for what I had come to think of as
Cal Zin. I just picked up an '01 Biale Zin (to replace a corked Bonaccorsi
Pinot..... sad, as I really wanted to enjoy it) and it's also called Monte
Rosso, so I'm presuming it's from the same vineyard as the Rosenblum. Am I
in for the same treat with all three??

in article , Midlife at wrote
on 3/24/05 9:06 AM:

>
>
> Through a visit to the winery (Alameda, CA) and also the intense interest of
> a friend, I have recently become 'immersed' in Rosumblum Zins. Two of them,
> in particular: '02 Harris Kratka and '02 Monte Rosso, we tasted and they
> seem to be incredibly smooth and fruity for what I had come to think of as
> Cal Zin. I just picked up an '01 Biale Zin (to replace a corked Bonaccorsi
> Pinot..... sad, as I really wanted to enjoy it) and it's also called Monte
> Rosso, so I'm presuming it's from the same vineyard as the Rosenblum. Am I
> in for the same treat with all three??

Maybe too much Zin??? That's supposed to be "Ros-e-n-blum", of course.

;o)

in article , Midlife at wrote
on 3/24/05 9:06 AM:

>
>
> Through a visit to the winery (Alameda, CA) and also the intense interest of
> a friend, I have recently become 'immersed' in Rosumblum Zins. Two of them,
> in particular: '02 Harris Kratka and '02 Monte Rosso, we tasted and they
> seem to be incredibly smooth and fruity for what I had come to think of as
> Cal Zin. I just picked up an '01 Biale Zin (to replace a corked Bonaccorsi
> Pinot..... sad, as I really wanted to enjoy it) and it's also called Monte
> Rosso, so I'm presuming it's from the same vineyard as the Rosenblum. Am I
> in for the same treat with all three??

Maybe too much Zin??? That's supposed to be "Ros-e-n-blum", of course.

;o)

in article , pavane at
wrote on 3/24/05 7:16 AM:
<snip>
> But I have found that most of the classic makers
> stick with a rather moderate approach; it is just that glamour has its
> appeal and there is nothing glamorous about discussing Loonies or
> Grgich or Frogs Leap or Murphy-Goode. I have my Biale stored away,
> to bring out at the proper occasion which is usually not a for a good
> food and wine match.
>
> pavane


Through a visit to the winery (Alameda, CA) and also the intense interest of
a friend, I have recently become 'immersed' in Rosumblum Zins. Two of them,
in particular: '02 Harris Kratka and '02 Monte Rosso, we tasted and they
seem to be incredibly smooth and fruity for what I had come to think of as
Cal Zin. I just picked up an '01 Biale Zin (to replace a corked Bonaccorsi
Pinot..... sad, as I really wanted to enjoy it) and it's also called Monte
Rosso, so I'm presuming it's from the same vineyard as the Rosenblum. Am I
in for the same treat with all three??

Bi!! wrote:

> My first recollection of Zin's becoming ultra-ripe and over the top was
> when I first tasted a 1996 Turley Hayne Vineyard Zin that was quite
> saturated and sweet with a very Port like structure. I just checked
> and Parker gave that wine 97 points with most of Turley's Zin's
> recieving scores in the mid to high 90's so I agree with Pavane's
> comments. Since that time I've tasted scores of over the top zinfandel
> with the 1998 Martinelli Jackass Hill Zin (Parker 97 points) being at
> the top of the monstrosity scale at a whopping 17% alcohol and the
> consistancy of cough syrup. FWIW, Parker raves about Martinelli
> zinfandel's placing them at the top of all producers. I have seen a
> shift back towards more reasonable zinfandel in the last few years with
> a more traditional style.

Northern California had some of the hottest weather in years just before
harvest in 96. Sonoma County was particularly hard hit. Deloach was
making about 12 different Zins then and I think the alcohol range was
between 15.5 and 18. A lot of us had been conditioned to believe that
the yeast were killed by the alcohol at 15.5 and so it was a big
surprise to a lot of us. We the California vintners wrong to sell such
wine? Ask yourself if the Bordeaux vintners would sell wine in a bad
year.

I think Parker fell in love with Ms Turley's Napa Cabernets and just
decided he liked everything she made. High extraction has always been at
the top of his list of desirable traits. Of course the Martinelli
Jackass Hill Zin is also made by Ms Turley. Regardless of what you think
of the wine, she has done wonders for a small Italian family winery in
turning it into one that can command the prices they do for such as the
Jackass Hill.

1997 was a return to more normal climate and turned out to be the best
Zin year in California history to me.
Bill

Ridge and others have made extremely overripe Zinfandels from back in
the 70s and even earlier. Some had a little residual sugar and a very
high alcohol content. Others had a very high residual sugar content and
high to very high alcohol content also. Some of the dryer types did have
much of the weight and structure of an Amarone. Some of the sweeter
versions had the weight and sweetness of port, or beyond. I suspect the
ones you mentioned were rather tame compared with some of the wines from
the past. Ridge Shenandoah Esola Vineyard 1978 was a fairly dry huge
late harvest wine somewhat in an Amarone style. Ridge Lodi Essence 1972
was very port-like with much residual sugar and alcohol. Ridge Dusi
Ranch Late Harvest 1978. was quite full and quite sweet. Monterey
Peninsula Winery Ferrero Ranch Late Harvest 1976 was extremely
concentrated, loaded with alcohol, and off-dry. Then there was David
Bruce who in the 70s was one of the kings of monster wines including
Zinfandel and even a Riesling fermented to about 17 % alcohol.

Reply to .

Thanks for the memories--how about Montevina LH at 15.3%. I remember the
late Dave Bennion pouring me some LH Zins up at Ridge---never did figure out
how I got down that mountain. Another bunch of LH Zins were the Mayacami of
Bob Travers.....yikes they were responsible for the loss of about 100,000 of
my brain cells.

However, the so called Parkerized Zins of today (and the cabs, petite
syrahs, and meritages) are much better balanced, with just "gobs and gobs"
of fruit, although I didn't have to take out a home equity loan to buy a
wine like Turley.

--
Joseph B. Rosenberg
"Cwdjrx _" > wrote in message
...
> Ridge and others have made extremely overripe Zinfandels from back in
> the 70s and even earlier. Some had a little residual sugar and a very
> high alcohol content. Others had a very high residual sugar content and
> high to very high alcohol content also. Some of the dryer types did have
> much of the weight and structure of an Amarone. Some of the sweeter
> versions had the weight and sweetness of port, or beyond. I suspect the
> ones you mentioned were rather tame compared with some of the wines from
> the past. Ridge Shenandoah Esola Vineyard 1978 was a fairly dry huge
> late harvest wine somewhat in an Amarone style. Ridge Lodi Essence 1972
> was very port-like with much residual sugar and alcohol. Ridge Dusi
> Ranch Late Harvest 1978. was quite full and quite sweet. Monterey
> Peninsula Winery Ferrero Ranch Late Harvest 1976 was extremely
> concentrated, loaded with alcohol, and off-dry. Then there was David
> Bruce who in the 70s was one of the kings of monster wines including
> Zinfandel and even a Riesling fermented to about 17 % alcohol.
>
> Reply to .
>

Thanks for the memories--how about Montevina LH at 15.3%. I remember the
late Dave Bennion pouring me some LH Zins up at Ridge---never did figure out
how I got down that mountain. Another bunch of LH Zins were the Mayacami of
Bob Travers.....yikes they were responsible for the loss of about 100,000 of
my brain cells.

However, the so called Parkerized Zins of today (and the cabs, petite
syrahs, and meritages) are much better balanced, with just "gobs and gobs"
of fruit, although I didn't have to take out a home equity loan to buy a
wine like Turley.

--
Joseph B. Rosenberg
"Cwdjrx _" > wrote in message
...
> Ridge and others have made extremely overripe Zinfandels from back in
> the 70s and even earlier. Some had a little residual sugar and a very
> high alcohol content. Others had a very high residual sugar content and
> high to very high alcohol content also. Some of the dryer types did have
> much of the weight and structure of an Amarone. Some of the sweeter
> versions had the weight and sweetness of port, or beyond. I suspect the
> ones you mentioned were rather tame compared with some of the wines from
> the past. Ridge Shenandoah Esola Vineyard 1978 was a fairly dry huge
> late harvest wine somewhat in an Amarone style. Ridge Lodi Essence 1972
> was very port-like with much residual sugar and alcohol. Ridge Dusi
> Ranch Late Harvest 1978. was quite full and quite sweet. Monterey
> Peninsula Winery Ferrero Ranch Late Harvest 1976 was extremely
> concentrated, loaded with alcohol, and off-dry. Then there was David
> Bruce who in the 70s was one of the kings of monster wines including
> Zinfandel and even a Riesling fermented to about 17 % alcohol.
>
> Reply to .
>

Ridge and others have made extremely overripe Zinfandels from back in
the 70s and even earlier. Some had a little residual sugar and a very
high alcohol content. Others had a very high residual sugar content and
high to very high alcohol content also. Some of the dryer types did have
much of the weight and structure of an Amarone. Some of the sweeter
versions had the weight and sweetness of port, or beyond. I suspect the
ones you mentioned were rather tame compared with some of the wines from
the past. Ridge Shenandoah Esola Vineyard 1978 was a fairly dry huge
late harvest wine somewhat in an Amarone style. Ridge Lodi Essence 1972
was very port-like with much residual sugar and alcohol. Ridge Dusi
Ranch Late Harvest 1978. was quite full and quite sweet. Monterey
Peninsula Winery Ferrero Ranch Late Harvest 1976 was extremely
concentrated, loaded with alcohol, and off-dry. Then there was David
Bruce who in the 70s was one of the kings of monster wines including
Zinfandel and even a Riesling fermented to about 17 % alcohol.

Reply to .

"Bi!!" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> pavane wrote:
> > > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> >
> > > I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I
> was
> > > very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
> > > alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
> > > this style of Zin.
> > > .......
> > > When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style
> of
> > > Zin that consumers want?
> > > .......
> >
> > (To the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club...
> > P-A R K-E R That's the stuff that sells!)
> >
> > pavane
>
> My first recollection of Zin's becoming ultra-ripe and over the top was
> when I first tasted a 1996 Turley Hayne Vineyard Zin that was quite
> saturated and sweet with a very Port like structure. I just checked
> and Parker gave that wine 97 points with most of Turley's Zin's
> recieving scores in the mid to high 90's so I agree with Pavane's
> comments. Since that time I've tasted scores of over the top zinfandel
> with the 1998 Martinelli Jackass Hill Zin (Parker 97 points) being at
> the top of the monstrosity scale at a whopping 17% alcohol and the
> consistancy of cough syrup. FWIW, Parker raves about Martinelli
> zinfandel's placing them at the top of all producers. I have seen a
> shift back towards more reasonable zinfandel in the last few years with
> a more traditional style.
>

"...the top of the monstrosity scale" is a lovely descriptor for that
style of winemaking. But I have found that most of the classic makers
stick with a rather moderate approach; it is just that glamour has its
appeal and there is nothing glamorous about discussing Loonies or
Grgich or Frogs Leap or Murphy-Goode. I have my Biale stored away,
to bring out at the proper occasion which is usually not a for a good
food and wine match.

pavane

Bi!! wrote:

> My first recollection of Zin's becoming ultra-ripe and over the top was
> when I first tasted a 1996 Turley Hayne Vineyard Zin that was quite
> saturated and sweet with a very Port like structure. I just checked
> and Parker gave that wine 97 points with most of Turley's Zin's
> recieving scores in the mid to high 90's so I agree with Pavane's
> comments. Since that time I've tasted scores of over the top zinfandel
> with the 1998 Martinelli Jackass Hill Zin (Parker 97 points) being at
> the top of the monstrosity scale at a whopping 17% alcohol and the
> consistancy of cough syrup. FWIW, Parker raves about Martinelli
> zinfandel's placing them at the top of all producers. I have seen a
> shift back towards more reasonable zinfandel in the last few years with
> a more traditional style.

Northern California had some of the hottest weather in years just before
harvest in 96. Sonoma County was particularly hard hit. Deloach was
making about 12 different Zins then and I think the alcohol range was
between 15.5 and 18. A lot of us had been conditioned to believe that
the yeast were killed by the alcohol at 15.5 and so it was a big
surprise to a lot of us. We the California vintners wrong to sell such
wine? Ask yourself if the Bordeaux vintners would sell wine in a bad
year.

I think Parker fell in love with Ms Turley's Napa Cabernets and just
decided he liked everything she made. High extraction has always been at
the top of his list of desirable traits. Of course the Martinelli
Jackass Hill Zin is also made by Ms Turley. Regardless of what you think
of the wine, she has done wonders for a small Italian family winery in
turning it into one that can command the prices they do for such as the
Jackass Hill.

1997 was a return to more normal climate and turned out to be the best
Zin year in California history to me.
Bill

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I was
> very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
> alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
> this style of Zin.

> When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style of
> Zin that consumers want?
>
> Are there really a lot of consumers that like this style of wine?

Probably the same crowd that likes Amarone. I occasionally am in the mood
for a big Zin, but I'll admit they aren't terribly food friendly. Cheese is
about the only thing that they really complement, but who cares?

Tom S

In article >,
Tom S > wrote:
> wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>>I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I was
>> very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
>> alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
>> this style of Zin.
>
>> When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style of
>> Zin that consumers want?
>>
>> Are there really a lot of consumers that like this style of wine?
>
>Probably the same crowd that likes Amarone. I occasionally am in the mood
>for a big Zin, but I'll admit they aren't terribly food friendly. Cheese is
>about the only thing that they really complement, but who cares?


I agree that finding food to go with them can be difficult. On the other
hand, I really like big, alcoholic zinfandels. To me, the old style
zinfandels are far too harsh. The zinfandel grape has some harsh flavors that,
to me, are not very drinkable. The only thing the grape has going for it
is the fruit. A more subdued style of zinfandel is something I prefer to
pass on entirely. That is not to say that I want zinfandel that tastes
like cough syrup, but most of the old 'spaghetti red' zinfandels are just
bad in my opinion.


For example, I really like Turley's zinfandels. Turley makes a bottling
from the old Pesenti vineyard, which they now own. Even though lots of
people liked it, I did not care for the old Pesenti zins at all. I think
the Pesenti bottling is not one of Turley's best, but to my palate I
far prefer it to the old-style wines that were being made there before.


I see zinfandel as a grape with a lot of concentrated fruit that can get
overripe. Underlying that is a bitterness that I do not enjoy. The fruit
helps mask that. If I am not in the mood for a big, alcoholic fruit bomb
of a zin then I just have a different wine altogether.


Dimitri

D. Gerasimatos wrote:
> In article >,
> Tom S > wrote:
>
> wrote in message
groups.com...
>>
>>>I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I was
>>>very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
>>>alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
>>>this style of Zin.
>>
>>>When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style of
>>>Zin that consumers want?
>>>
>>>Are there really a lot of consumers that like this style of wine?
>>
>>Probably the same crowd that likes Amarone. I occasionally am in the mood
>>for a big Zin, but I'll admit they aren't terribly food friendly. Cheese is
>>about the only thing that they really complement, but who cares?
>
>
>
> I agree that finding food to go with them can be difficult. On the other
> hand, I really like big, alcoholic zinfandels. To me, the old style
> zinfandels are far too harsh. The zinfandel grape has some harsh flavors that,
> to me, are not very drinkable. The only thing the grape has going for it
> is the fruit. A more subdued style of zinfandel is something I prefer to
> pass on entirely. That is not to say that I want zinfandel that tastes
> like cough syrup, but most of the old 'spaghetti red' zinfandels are just
> bad in my opinion.

Well, it all depends on what you mean by "old style." Ridge has been
making Zinfandel in largely the same style for well over 30 years now.
Ridge Geryserville is a far cry from "spagehetti red," however. To me,
the atttractions of Zin a price, fruit, acids and complexity. The
varietal notes of pepper and tar are almost unique among wines made in
CA, and a good Zin will present an interesting mix of berry fruit,
cedar, tar, pepper and (in some cases) oak. Frankly, I find a well-made
CA Zin to be a more food-friendly wine than most of the CalCabs made
today -- though I realize that that's not saying much.

>
>
> For example, I really like Turley's zinfandels. Turley makes a bottling
> from the old Pesenti vineyard, which they now own. Even though lots of
> people liked it, I did not care for the old Pesenti zins at all. I think
> the Pesenti bottling is not one of Turley's best, but to my palate I
> far prefer it to the old-style wines that were being made there before.

Turley's Zins have undergone some reworking since the mid-'90s IMO.
When I tasted at the old Pesenti winery last Dec., I found their Zins to
be very well-made if not quite so interesting as some others.

However, the one Turley Zin I had from the mid-'90s was as close to
cough syrup as I ever hope to find in a wine bottle. Fortunately, it
was served as a pseudo-Port for I can't imagine what food would actually
stand up to such a monster.

Mark Lipton

In article >,
Mark Lipton > wrote:
>>
>> I agree that finding food to go with them can be difficult. On the other
>> hand, I really like big, alcoholic zinfandels. To me, the old style
>> zinfandels are far too harsh. The zinfandel grape has some harsh flavors
>> that, to me, are not very drinkable. The only thing the grape has going for
>> it is the fruit. A more subdued style of zinfandel is something I prefer to
>> pass on entirely. That is not to say that I want zinfandel that tastes
>> like cough syrup, but most of the old 'spaghetti red' zinfandels are just
>> bad in my opinion.
>
>Well, it all depends on what you mean by "old style." Ridge has been
>making Zinfandel in largely the same style for well over 30 years now.
>Ridge Geryserville is a far cry from "spagehetti red," however. To me,
>the atttractions of Zin a price, fruit, acids and complexity. The
>varietal notes of pepper and tar are almost unique among wines made in
>CA, and a good Zin will present an interesting mix of berry fruit,
>cedar, tar, pepper and (in some cases) oak. Frankly, I find a well-made
>CA Zin to be a more food-friendly wine than most of the CalCabs made
>today -- though I realize that that's not saying much.


Well, when I say 'old style' I mean watery spaghetti reds with less fruit
and more astringency. That does not describe Ridge.


>Turley's Zins have undergone some reworking since the mid-'90s IMO.
>When I tasted at the old Pesenti winery last Dec., I found their Zins to
>be very well-made if not quite so interesting as some others.


Lots of pepper, vanilla, and wood layered under the fruit is why I like
Turley and why it is one of my favorites. However, I find it less suitable
for food than something more austere like Ravenswood.


Dimitri

In article >,
Mark Lipton > wrote:
>>
>> I agree that finding food to go with them can be difficult. On the other
>> hand, I really like big, alcoholic zinfandels. To me, the old style
>> zinfandels are far too harsh. The zinfandel grape has some harsh flavors
>> that, to me, are not very drinkable. The only thing the grape has going for
>> it is the fruit. A more subdued style of zinfandel is something I prefer to
>> pass on entirely. That is not to say that I want zinfandel that tastes
>> like cough syrup, but most of the old 'spaghetti red' zinfandels are just
>> bad in my opinion.
>
>Well, it all depends on what you mean by "old style." Ridge has been
>making Zinfandel in largely the same style for well over 30 years now.
>Ridge Geryserville is a far cry from "spagehetti red," however. To me,
>the atttractions of Zin a price, fruit, acids and complexity. The
>varietal notes of pepper and tar are almost unique among wines made in
>CA, and a good Zin will present an interesting mix of berry fruit,
>cedar, tar, pepper and (in some cases) oak. Frankly, I find a well-made
>CA Zin to be a more food-friendly wine than most of the CalCabs made
>today -- though I realize that that's not saying much.


Well, when I say 'old style' I mean watery spaghetti reds with less fruit
and more astringency. That does not describe Ridge.


>Turley's Zins have undergone some reworking since the mid-'90s IMO.
>When I tasted at the old Pesenti winery last Dec., I found their Zins to
>be very well-made if not quite so interesting as some others.


Lots of pepper, vanilla, and wood layered under the fruit is why I like
Turley and why it is one of my favorites. However, I find it less suitable
for food than something more austere like Ravenswood.


Dimitri

D. Gerasimatos wrote:
> In article >,
> Tom S > wrote:
>
> wrote in message
groups.com...
>>
>>>I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I was
>>>very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
>>>alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
>>>this style of Zin.
>>
>>>When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style of
>>>Zin that consumers want?
>>>
>>>Are there really a lot of consumers that like this style of wine?
>>
>>Probably the same crowd that likes Amarone. I occasionally am in the mood
>>for a big Zin, but I'll admit they aren't terribly food friendly. Cheese is
>>about the only thing that they really complement, but who cares?
>
>
>
> I agree that finding food to go with them can be difficult. On the other
> hand, I really like big, alcoholic zinfandels. To me, the old style
> zinfandels are far too harsh. The zinfandel grape has some harsh flavors that,
> to me, are not very drinkable. The only thing the grape has going for it
> is the fruit. A more subdued style of zinfandel is something I prefer to
> pass on entirely. That is not to say that I want zinfandel that tastes
> like cough syrup, but most of the old 'spaghetti red' zinfandels are just
> bad in my opinion.

Well, it all depends on what you mean by "old style." Ridge has been
making Zinfandel in largely the same style for well over 30 years now.
Ridge Geryserville is a far cry from "spagehetti red," however. To me,
the atttractions of Zin a price, fruit, acids and complexity. The
varietal notes of pepper and tar are almost unique among wines made in
CA, and a good Zin will present an interesting mix of berry fruit,
cedar, tar, pepper and (in some cases) oak. Frankly, I find a well-made
CA Zin to be a more food-friendly wine than most of the CalCabs made
today -- though I realize that that's not saying much.

>
>
> For example, I really like Turley's zinfandels. Turley makes a bottling
> from the old Pesenti vineyard, which they now own. Even though lots of
> people liked it, I did not care for the old Pesenti zins at all. I think
> the Pesenti bottling is not one of Turley's best, but to my palate I
> far prefer it to the old-style wines that were being made there before.

Turley's Zins have undergone some reworking since the mid-'90s IMO.
When I tasted at the old Pesenti winery last Dec., I found their Zins to
be very well-made if not quite so interesting as some others.

However, the one Turley Zin I had from the mid-'90s was as close to
cough syrup as I ever hope to find in a wine bottle. Fortunately, it
was served as a pseudo-Port for I can't imagine what food would actually
stand up to such a monster.

Mark Lipton

In article >,
Tom S > wrote:
> wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>>I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I was
>> very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
>> alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
>> this style of Zin.
>
>> When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style of
>> Zin that consumers want?
>>
>> Are there really a lot of consumers that like this style of wine?
>
>Probably the same crowd that likes Amarone. I occasionally am in the mood
>for a big Zin, but I'll admit they aren't terribly food friendly. Cheese is
>about the only thing that they really complement, but who cares?


I agree that finding food to go with them can be difficult. On the other
hand, I really like big, alcoholic zinfandels. To me, the old style
zinfandels are far too harsh. The zinfandel grape has some harsh flavors that,
to me, are not very drinkable. The only thing the grape has going for it
is the fruit. A more subdued style of zinfandel is something I prefer to
pass on entirely. That is not to say that I want zinfandel that tastes
like cough syrup, but most of the old 'spaghetti red' zinfandels are just
bad in my opinion.


For example, I really like Turley's zinfandels. Turley makes a bottling
from the old Pesenti vineyard, which they now own. Even though lots of
people liked it, I did not care for the old Pesenti zins at all. I think
the Pesenti bottling is not one of Turley's best, but to my palate I
far prefer it to the old-style wines that were being made there before.


I see zinfandel as a grape with a lot of concentrated fruit that can get
overripe. Underlying that is a bitterness that I do not enjoy. The fruit
helps mask that. If I am not in the mood for a big, alcoholic fruit bomb
of a zin then I just have a different wine altogether.


Dimitri

wrote:

> 2001 Joseph Swan, Lone Redwood Ranch
> Very dark.

[...]

> I really
> think this wine has residual sugar, which would be amazing considering
> the alcohol.

This could indicate the use of concentrated must to darken
the wine - the tell-tale sign is residual sugar. I remember
hearing a comment that a top-rated Merlot from Napa last year
had the same tell-tale signs.

Dana

wrote:

> 2001 Joseph Swan, Lone Redwood Ranch
> Very dark.

[...]

> I really
> think this wine has residual sugar, which would be amazing considering
> the alcohol.

This could indicate the use of concentrated must to darken
the wine - the tell-tale sign is residual sugar. I remember
hearing a comment that a top-rated Merlot from Napa last year
had the same tell-tale signs.

Dana

> wrote in message
oups.com...

> I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I was
> very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
> alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
> this style of Zin.
> .......
> When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style of
> Zin that consumers want?
> .......

(To the tune of The Mickey Mouse Club...
P-A R K-E R That's the stuff that sells!)

pavane

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I attended a retailer sponsored sit down Zinfandel wine tasting. I was
> very disappointed. Almost all the wines were overripe and extremely
> alcoholic. I didn't rate most of them, because I just don't like
> this style of Zin.

> When exactly did California wine makers decide this was the style of
> Zin that consumers want?
>
> Are there really a lot of consumers that like this style of wine?

Probably the same crowd that likes Amarone. I occasionally am in the mood
for a big Zin, but I'll admit they aren't terribly food friendly. Cheese is
about the only thing that they really complement, but who cares?

Tom S