Salut/Hi Steve,

le/on Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:25:20 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>A friend of mine is convinced that keeping a silver spoon in a part used
>bottle helps it keep its fizz.
>
>Is this true? If so how does it work?

Urban myth. No truth in it whatsoever.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Hi

A friend of mine is convinced that keeping a silver spoon in a part used
bottle helps it keep its fizz.

Is this true? If so how does it work?

Can't really see the science behind it myself!!!

Cheers

Steve

It's ********. The way to keep the fizz in sparkling wine is to make
sure it's well chilled before opening (chem 101, the colder it is, the
less gas that the liquid will give up) and treat it gently when
pouring, you want minimal sloshing inside the bottle.
Keep it in the coldest part of the fridge overnight and you'll have
plenty of bubbles the following afternoon or evening.

"Ian Hoare" > skrev i melding
...
> Salut/Hi Steve,
>
> le/on Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:25:20 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>
>>A friend of mine is convinced that keeping a silver spoon in a part used
>>bottle helps it keep its fizz.
>>
>>Is this true? If so how does it work?
>
> Urban myth. No truth in it whatsoever.
>
>
Urban? Never in the country?
Anders

> http://www.souvigne.com
> mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

rfs wrote:
> It's ********. The way to keep the fizz in sparkling wine is to make
> sure it's well chilled before opening (chem 101, the colder it is, the
> less gas that the liquid will give up) and treat it gently when
> pouring, you want minimal sloshing inside the bottle.
> Keep it in the coldest part of the fridge overnight and you'll have
> plenty of bubbles the following afternoon or evening.
>

Sorry, but your Chem 101 is a bit rusty it would seem. The issue is the
solubility of carbonic acid (hydrated CO2) in water-ethanol. Solubility
does not generally increase at lower temperature; quite the contrary, in
fact. Additionally, if you should reach a critical point (freezing
point, in this case) you would degas the solution as solubility goes to
zero at all critical points. Fortunately, it takes some doing to freeze
a sparkling wine, so we don't usually have to worry about that
possibility. To get back to the main point, the best way to keep it
fizzy is to place it under pressure, ideally under an atmosphere of
carbon dioxide. In fact, you can make a still wine fizzy under those
conditions! ;-)

Mark Lipton

Ian Hoare wrote:
> Salut/Hi Steve,
>
> le/on Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:25:20 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
>
>
>>A friend of mine is convinced that keeping a silver spoon in a part used
>>bottle helps it keep its fizz.
>>
>>Is this true? If so how does it work?
>
>
> Urban myth. No truth in it whatsoever.
>
>

I saw a somewhat ad hoc experiment done with this. The control condition
was no spoon, cork etc at all.

No spoon had pretty much the same effect as putting the spoon in.

I think re-corking went ok. Vacuum sealing better. As you would
logically expect I guess.

"rfs" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> It's ********. The way to keep the fizz in sparkling wine is to make
> sure it's well chilled before opening (chem 101, the colder it is, the
> less gas that the liquid will give up) and treat it gently when
> pouring, you want minimal sloshing inside the bottle.
> Keep it in the coldest part of the fridge overnight and you'll have
> plenty of bubbles the following afternoon or evening.
>

......or morning. Don't you drink Champagne for breakfast?! ;-).

Goodnight
Sammy-


- who doesn't drink Champagne for breakfast but only because he can't afford
to.

Salut/Hi Mat,

le/on Sat, 29 Jan 2005 13:26:53 +1100, tu disais/you said:-


>>>A friend of mine is convinced that keeping a silver spoon in a part used
>>>bottle helps it keep its fizz.

>> Urban myth. No truth in it whatsoever.

>I saw a somewhat ad hoc experiment done with this. The control condition
>was no spoon, cork etc at all.
>
>No spoon had pretty much the same effect as putting the spoon in.
>
>I think re-corking went ok. Vacuum sealing better. As you would
>logically expect I guess.

Err.. I doubt if a vacuum system would work too well with fizz. (GD&R)

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Salut/Hi Mark Lipton,

le/on Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:23:08 -0800, tu disais/you said:-


>> Keep it in the coldest part of the fridge overnight and you'll have
>> plenty of bubbles the following afternoon or evening.
>>
>
>Sorry, but your Chem 101 is a bit rusty it would seem. The issue is the
>solubility of carbonic acid (hydrated CO2) in water-ethanol. Solubility
>does not generally increase at lower temperature; quite the contrary, in
>fact.

Mark!!!! Is it the addition of ethanol that changes things? Because the
solubility of gases in water (though I thought it was in all solvents) does
increase with falling temperatures. Otherwise you wouldn't get gas bubbles
occurring in water when it is heated - long before boiling point.

It's almost equal pleasure to be able to read you here again and to be able
to query a question of chemistry!

> Additionally, if you should reach a critical point (freezing
>point, in this case) you would degas the solution as solubility goes to
>zero at all critical points.

Interesting... that I didn't know.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:23:08 -0800, Mark Lipton > said:

] rfs wrote:
] > It's ********. The way to keep the fizz in sparkling wine is to make
] > sure it's well chilled before opening (chem 101, the colder it is, the
] > less gas that the liquid will give up) and treat it gently when
] > pouring, you want minimal sloshing inside the bottle.
] > Keep it in the coldest part of the fridge overnight and you'll have
] > plenty of bubbles the following afternoon or evening.
] >
]
] Sorry, but your Chem 101 is a bit rusty it would seem. The issue is the

Hey perfesser,

Good to see your crusty corrections again. We count on you to keep
AFW on the scientific up-and-up. Don't know how you resisted on the
"breathing" glassware.

I assume the sabbatical comes now so as to give baby Andy a "bluer"
background. Seriously, hope he's still sleeping well and letting you
and Jean get on with some serious tasting. (Thanks for the interesting
Zin notes, BTW).

best from (as Adele calls it) "the bluest of the blue states", soon
to be renamed the Republic of Sarkoland.

-E

P.S. now that you're academics emeritus (is there a plural of that?) any
chance you'll be getting over here during the spring?

--
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se
"Ian Hoare" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> Salut/Hi Mark Lipton,
>
> le/on Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:23:08 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>
>
>>> Keep it in the coldest part of the fridge overnight and you'll have
>>> plenty of bubbles the following afternoon or evening.
>>>
>>
>>Sorry, but your Chem 101 is a bit rusty it would seem. The issue is the
>>solubility of carbonic acid (hydrated CO2) in water-ethanol. Solubility
>>does not generally increase at lower temperature; quite the contrary, in
>>fact.
>
> Mark!!!! Is it the addition of ethanol that changes things? Because the
> solubility of gases in water (though I thought it was in all solvents)
> does
> increase with falling temperatures. Otherwise you wouldn't get gas bubbles
> occurring in water when it is heated - long before boiling point.
>
> It's almost equal pleasure to be able to read you here again and to be
> able
> to query a question of chemistry!
>
>> Additionally, if you should reach a critical point (freezing
>>point, in this case) you would degas the solution as solubility goes to
>>zero at all critical points.
>
> Interesting... that I didn't know.

In my foolish youth (about 9, I´d say) I tried to make fizzy popsicles using
some sort of sodapop (equivalent of SevenUp) and freezing it in our fridge.
I found to my considerable disappointment that the popsicles contained no
discernable fizz whatsoever. So practice is true to theory.

Cheers!

Nils Gustaf

Ian Hoare wrote:

> Mark!!!! Is it the addition of ethanol that changes things? Because the
> solubility of gases in water (though I thought it was in all solvents) does
> increase with falling temperatures. Otherwise you wouldn't get gas bubbles
> occurring in water when it is heated - long before boiling point.

Ack! My second mea culpa in the past 12 hours. Yes, gases show an
inverse temperature dependence for their solubilities. When I wrote
that statement, I was thinking about the carbonic acid form, but since
it's in a rapid equilibrium with CO2, it too shows an inverse
temperature dependence. My apologies to rfs, who's point was dead on
correct.

>
> It's almost equal pleasure to be able to read you here again and to be able
> to query a question of chemistry!

Thanks, Ian. Next time I'll try to make a point that's factually
correct ;-)
>
>
>>Additionally, if you should reach a critical point (freezing
>>point, in this case) you would degas the solution as solubility goes to
>>zero at all critical points.
>
>
> Interesting... that I didn't know.

Well, you know that you degas at boiling, but it's also true at
freezing. A standard technique for rigorously degassing solutions is
the "freeze-pump-thaw" cycle, where after freezing the solution you
evacuate the atmosphere and replace it with something like Argon that
has very low solubility in most solvents. Two or three rounds of
freeze-pump-thaw is used to completely deoxygenate solutions (oxygen
being the main gas one usually wants to get rid of).

Mark Lipton

Ian Hoare wrote:


>
>
> Err.. I doubt if a vacuum system would work too well with fizz. (GD&R)
>

Errr the ol' memory's not what it used to be.
Errr the ol' memory's not what it used to be.
Errr the ol' memory's not what it used to be.


I recall something about sugar as well, but errr the ol' memory's not
what it used to be.

Salut/Hi Mark Lipton,

le/on Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:25:38 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

>Ack! My second mea culpa in the past 12 hours.

I'm SO glad you can't be a fly on the wall chez les Hoares! I feel I'm doing
well with less than 2 an hour!

> Yes, gases show an inverse temperature dependence for their solubilities.

Thanks for confirming that.
> My apologies to rfs, whose point was dead on correct.

(s******, I've taken the liberty of also editing your grammar. "Who's" is
the abbreviation (cf it's) while the possessive is "whose" (cf its)- Nyah,
nyah nyah).

>Thanks, Ian. Next time I'll try to make a point that's factually correct ;-)

Chuckle.. I think that's a dreadful idea, I'd then be deprived of an
opportunity to tease you.

Glad to see you seem to be able to post and read regularly again, btw. I was
getting seriously worried about your silence, as I must have missed your
announcement of your impending sabbatical, while I was travelling about.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Salut/Hi Mark Lipton,

le/on Sat, 29 Jan 2005 11:25:38 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

>Ack! My second mea culpa in the past 12 hours.

I'm SO glad you can't be a fly on the wall chez les Hoares! I feel I'm doing
well with less than 2 an hour!

> Yes, gases show an inverse temperature dependence for their solubilities.

Thanks for confirming that.
> My apologies to rfs, whose point was dead on correct.

(s******, I've taken the liberty of also editing your grammar. "Who's" is
the abbreviation (cf it's) while the possessive is "whose" (cf its)- Nyah,
nyah nyah).

>Thanks, Ian. Next time I'll try to make a point that's factually correct ;-)

Chuckle.. I think that's a dreadful idea, I'd then be deprived of an
opportunity to tease you.

Glad to see you seem to be able to post and read regularly again, btw. I was
getting seriously worried about your silence, as I must have missed your
announcement of your impending sabbatical, while I was travelling about.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:23:08 -0800, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>
>Sorry, but your Chem 101 is a bit rusty it would seem. The issue is the
>solubility of carbonic acid (hydrated CO2) in water-ethanol. Solubility
>does not generally increase at lower temperature; quite the contrary, in
>fact.

Wrong!

For solids, solubility decreases with decreasing temperature; for
gases, it increases.
http://www.gcsescience.com/f13.htm
http://www.gcsescience.com/f11.htm

In my experience, keeping the temperature close to freezing and using
a good stopper helps retain fizz.

--
=================================================
Do you like wine? Do you live in South Florida?
Visit the MIAMI WINE TASTERS group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/miamiWINE
=================================================

Leo Bueno wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:23:08 -0800, Mark Lipton >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Sorry, but your Chem 101 is a bit rusty it would seem. The issue is the
>>solubility of carbonic acid (hydrated CO2) in water-ethanol. Solubility
>>does not generally increase at lower temperature; quite the contrary, in
>>fact.
>
>
> Wrong!
>
> For solids, solubility decreases with decreasing temperature; for
> gases, it increases.
> http://www.gcsescience.com/f13.htm
> http://www.gcsescience.com/f11.htm

Ah, but carbonic acid is neither, so what do we say about that?
However, for reasons stated in my response to Ian, its solubility still
shows an inverse temperature dependence.

>
> In my experience, keeping the temperature close to freezing and using
> a good stopper helps retain fizz.

Yup. Temperature and pressure combined.

Mark Lipton

Ian Hoare wrote:

> Glad to see you seem to be able to post and read regularly again, btw. I was
> getting seriously worried about your silence, as I must have missed your
> announcement of your impending sabbatical, while I was travelling about.

I'm sorry to have caused any concern. I've been able to read afw all
the while, but only since co-opting my landlord's Comcast account have I
been able to post without resorting to the dreaded Google Groups
interface. BTW, did I miss your trip report regarding your visits to
the West Coast wineries (poke poke)?

Mark Lipton

Try a silver spoon up your rectum. Then you wouldn't ask such assinine
questions.
"Steve" > wrote in message
.. .
> Hi
>
> A friend of mine is convinced that keeping a silver spoon in a part used
> bottle helps it keep its fizz.
>
> Is this true? If so how does it work?
>
> Can't really see the science behind it myself!!!
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>

Try a silver spoon up your rectum. Then you wouldn't ask such assinine
questions.
"Steve" > wrote in message
.. .
> Hi
>
> A friend of mine is convinced that keeping a silver spoon in a part used
> bottle helps it keep its fizz.
>
> Is this true? If so how does it work?
>
> Can't really see the science behind it myself!!!
>
> Cheers
>
> Steve
>

a bottle of what?


"Redhart" > wrote in message
.. .
> Try a silver spoon up your rectum. Then you wouldn't ask such assinine
> questions.
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Hi
>>
>> A friend of mine is convinced that keeping a silver spoon in a part used
>> bottle helps it keep its fizz.
>>
>> Is this true? If so how does it work?
>>
>> Can't really see the science behind it myself!!!
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>

killfiled...
Anders
"xenophobe" > skrev i melding
...
>a bottle of what?
>
>
> "Redhart" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Try a silver spoon up your rectum. Then you wouldn't ask such assinine
>> questions.
>> "Steve" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> A friend of mine is convinced that keeping a silver spoon in a part used
>>> bottle helps it keep its fizz.
>>>
>>> Is this true? If so how does it work?
>>>
>>> Can't really see the science behind it myself!!!
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>
>>
>
>