Thursday I was indecisive in store, ended up with clams and lamb. So a first course of clams and linguine, then couple small rib chops along with pimenton cauliflower.
1993 Ferret Le Clos Tete de Cuvee Pouilly-Fuisse
Knew this was iffy when I got in a private sale, pretty advanced, though not truly oxidized. Apples/cider, a nutty hint, tired, some chalky notes hinting it would have good a while ago. C+/B-

2014 La Bettingna Vermentino
Rounder than my preferred Vermentinos, nutty, modest finish. B-

2004 Giovanni Rosso Serralunga Barolo (375)
Red fruits, earth, a little tar, ready to go from half. B/B+

Friday Betsy made roast chicken, I opned the 2013 Keller €œRR€� Riesling. Not labelled as trocken, this is pretty close, just slightly off-dry. Big, vibrant acids, lime and peach with some light herbsl notes and long minerally finish. Took a while but Im becoming Keller fan B+/A-

Saturday I worked but we went to join some marchers for dinner (Johns short ribs, risotto, and salad)

NV Mionetto Prosecco
The Raventos cava was gone when we got there, a glass of this showed sweet, appley, and simple. C+

NV Taittinger €œLa Francaise€� Brut Champagne
From private sale, think this had quite a bit of cellar time, some mature nutty/briochey notes, but plenty of fizz and apple/pear/lemon fruit. More complex than a recent release. B+/B

2000 Ch. La Garde (Pessac-Leognan)
Double decanted before we went to dinner, nice showing. Still some tannin, but plenty of black cherry and currant fruit, some tobacco leaf, earth. Just entering drinking window. Not especially complex, but this was $16 on release. B/B+

Sunday with leftovers (chicken, cauliflower, et al) while Betsy was at a post concert party, the
1997 Vissoux/Chermette €œPoncie€� Fleurie. At first I thought past it, but as initial bottle funk blew away nice black plum and cherry fruit showed up, with saddle leather and cedar notes. Good acids, finish not real long but nice wine for a couple hours. Then it began to crack up, disjointed and with emerging ashtray. But till then solid B.

Monday my flight made it out of White Plains late but almost ahead of storm, got rental in Atlanta and headed north. Met college roommate and his wife at a tavern, I had shrimp and grits and a glass of 2015 Whitehaven Sauvignon Blanc. Soft, hint of sweetness, apple and lemongrass, some grassy notes, ok. B-
Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C drinkable. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice.Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

On 2017-01-24 2:07 PM, DaleW wrote:
> Thursday I was indecisive in store, ended up with clams and lamb. So a first course of clams and linguine, then couple small rib chops along with pimenton cauliflower.
> 1993 Ferret Le Clos Tete de Cuvee Pouilly-Fuisse
> Knew this was iffy when I got in a private sale, pretty advanced, though not truly oxidized. Apples/cider, a nutty hint, tired, some chalky notes hinting it would have good a while ago. C+/B-
>
Dale
At what temperature do you maintain your cellar? Mine is cool and stable
but a bit warmer than the pundits recommend. However, some of my wines
that are recommended for drinking, are still a bit "behind".
Graham

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017 at 7:00:56 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
> On 2017-01-24 2:07 PM, DaleW wrote:
> > Thursday I was indecisive in store, ended up with clams and lamb. So a first course of clams and linguine, then couple small rib chops along with pimenton cauliflower.
> > 1993 Ferret Le Clos Tete de Cuvee Pouilly-Fuisse
> > Knew this was iffy when I got in a private sale, pretty advanced, though not truly oxidized. Apples/cider, a nutty hint, tired, some chalky notes hinting it would have good a while ago. C+/B-
> >
> Dale
> At what temperature do you maintain your cellar? Mine is cool and stable
> but a bit warmer than the pundits recommend. However, some of my wines
> that are recommended for drinking, are still a bit "behind".
> Graham

My cellar is passive (belowgrade rubble walls on 2 sides, drywall with 4 inches insulation on 2 sides facing basement). Temperature range at eye level from about 66-67 F at end of summer/Sept to 48-50 in Feb/March. No daily changes. I also have overflow at my office that's similar (maybe gets to 70) and professional storsge for some wine I expect to hold for long long time.. I've generally been happy with results.

This was not from my cellar but from a recent private sale. Of course, 23 years is longer than anyone holds Pouilly-Fuisse, even Ferret. It was cheap enough ($20) to take a chance- a friend had bought from same cellar with good results. The Fleurie ($10) & Taittinger ($25) were from same sale, I'm interested enough in novelty/variety to take a flyer on things like that.

On 2017-01-25 5:13 AM, DaleW wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 24, 2017 at 7:00:56 PM UTC-5, graham wrote:
>> On 2017-01-24 2:07 PM, DaleW wrote:
>>> Thursday I was indecisive in store, ended up with clams and lamb. So a first course of clams and linguine, then couple small rib chops along with pimenton cauliflower.
>>> 1993 Ferret Le Clos Tete de Cuvee Pouilly-Fuisse
>>> Knew this was iffy when I got in a private sale, pretty advanced, though not truly oxidized. Apples/cider, a nutty hint, tired, some chalky notes hinting it would have good a while ago. C+/B-
>>>
>> Dale
>> At what temperature do you maintain your cellar? Mine is cool and stable
>> but a bit warmer than the pundits recommend. However, some of my wines
>> that are recommended for drinking, are still a bit "behind".
>> Graham
>
> My cellar is passive (belowgrade rubble walls on 2 sides, drywall with 4 inches insulation on 2 sides facing basement). Temperature range at eye level from about 66-67 F at end of summer/Sept to 48-50 in Feb/March. No daily changes. I also have overflow at my office that's similar (maybe gets to 70) and professional storsge for some wine I expect to hold for long long time. I've generally been happy with results.
>
> This was not from my cellar but from a recent private sale. Of course, 23 years is longer than anyone holds Pouilly-Fuisse, even Ferret. It was cheap enough ($20) to take a chance- a friend had bought from same cellar with good results. The Fleurie ($10) & Taittinger ($25) were from same sale, I'm interested enough in novelty/variety to take a flyer on things like that.
>
Many thanks! Mine is also a passive, uninsulated, concrete basement. The
storage area usually maintains a fairly stable temperature in the 14-15C
range (57-59F) in the winter and 16-17C (61-63F) in the summer. Several
knowledgeable wine buffs have been telling me to drink up my 2004
clarets, but they are still not ready, and they are a mix of 1st to 5th
Growths. I don't buy privately but occasionally there are obvious
joblots of wines that the agents can't shift, being sold at bargain prices.

On 1/25/17 5:34 PM, graham wrote:

> Many thanks! Mine is also a passive, uninsulated, concrete basement. The
> storage area usually maintains a fairly stable temperature in the 14-15C
> range (57-59F) in the winter and 16-17C (61-63F) in the summer. Several
> knowledgeable wine buffs have been telling me to drink up my 2004
> clarets, but they are still not ready, and they are a mix of 1st to 5th
> Growths. I don't buy privately but occasionally there are obvious
> joblots of wines that the agents can't shift, being sold at bargain prices.

My cellar is also passively cooled, below grade and insulated. Living
in a region that experiences enormous temperature swings (lows of
-10°F/-23°C, highs of 100°F/38°C), I was concerned about temperature
stability in the cellar, but an excursion thermometer shows that in the
coldest winter the lowest cellar temperature is 45°F/7°C and in the
hottest summer the cellar will reach 63°F/17°C, which is within my range
of comfort, metaphorically speaking.

Dale and I some years ago participated in a trial where we stored
several wines in temperature unregulated locations (in my case, a closet
on the top floor of our house) for several years and compared them to
bottles of the same wine stored in our cellars. The results were
interesting in that the effect was less pronounced than I think anyone
had anticipated, but the cellar-stored wines were marginally fresher and
fruitier.

In examining bottles stored long-term in our cellar, I've found them to
be in good shape and comparable in most ways to bottles of the same wine
stored in "temperature-controlled" conditions, though mine often show a
bit more mature than wines stored at a constant 55°F/13°C. Since I'm
not getting any younger, this "problem" bothers me less and less

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

In message >
Mark Lipton > wrote:

> On 1/25/17 5:34 PM, graham wrote:

>> Many thanks! Mine is also a passive, uninsulated, concrete basement. The
>> storage area usually maintains a fairly stable temperature in the 14-15C
>> range (57-59F) in the winter and 16-17C (61-63F) in the summer. Several
>> knowledgeable wine buffs have been telling me to drink up my 2004
>> clarets, but they are still not ready, and they are a mix of 1st to 5th
>> Growths. I don't buy privately but occasionally there are obvious
>> joblots of wines that the agents can't shift, being sold at bargain prices.

> My cellar is also passively cooled, below grade and insulated. Living
> in a region that experiences enormous temperature swings (lows of
> -10°F/-23°C, highs of 100°F/38°C), I was concerned about temperature
> stability in the cellar, but an excursion thermometer shows that in the
> coldest winter the lowest cellar temperature is 45°F/7°C and in the
> hottest summer the cellar will reach 63°F/17°C, which is within my range
> of comfort, metaphorically speaking.

> Dale and I some years ago participated in a trial where we stored
> several wines in temperature unregulated locations (in my case, a closet
> on the top floor of our house) for several years and compared them to
> bottles of the same wine stored in our cellars. The results were
> interesting in that the effect was less pronounced than I think anyone
> had anticipated, but the cellar-stored wines were marginally fresher and
> fruitier.

> In examining bottles stored long-term in our cellar, I've found them to
> be in good shape and comparable in most ways to bottles of the same wine
> stored in "temperature-controlled" conditions, though mine often show a
> bit more mature than wines stored at a constant 55°F/13°C. Since I'm
> not getting any younger, this "problem" bothers me less and less

> Mark Lipton

I agree that temperature variation per se does not seem to make to
very much difference. Much of my wine is kept in a brick outbuilding
with some insulation and the better wines either kept in their orginal
wooden boxes stacked together with an insulation jacket round the
stack or in clay land drains stacked on top of each other against an
inside wall. In the latter, with a bottle in it, temperatures range
between over the seasons between about 42F and 67F - so slightly wider
than Mark's range. However comparing maturity of some of the same
wines inherited from my father, who had kept them at a constant wine
fridge temperature, although mine are a little more advanced. Like
Mark I too am getting to a stage where I mind that less than I might
once have done. I think the key may well be that any change in
temperature is very gradual over the year so that it has less effect
than, say, keeping a wine in a room which regularly flutuates in
temperature between day and night. (I have noticed that even lesser
wines brought up to drinking temperature naturally are better than
those which, on occasion, I have immersed in a bath of tepid water
when I have had to deal with an emergency need for a bottle. I don't
know if there is any scientific supprt for that or if it is just me
fearing I have offended the bottle and expecting a difference.)


Tim Hartley

On Tuesday, January 24, 2017 at 4:07:43 PM UTC-5, DaleW wrote:
> Thursday I was indecisive in store, ended up with clams and lamb. So a first course of clams and linguine, then couple small rib chops along with pimenton cauliflower.
> 1993 Ferret Le Clos Tete de Cuvee Pouilly-Fuisse
> Knew this was iffy when I got in a private sale, pretty advanced, though not truly oxidized. Apples/cider, a nutty hint, tired, some chalky notes hinting it would have good a while ago. C+/B-
>
> 2014 La Bettingna Vermentino
> Rounder than my preferred Vermentinos, nutty, modest finish. B-
>
> 2004 Giovanni Rosso Serralunga Barolo (375)
> Red fruits, earth, a little tar, ready to go from half. B/B+
>
> Friday Betsy made roast chicken, I opned the 2013 Keller €œRR€� Riesling. Not labelled as trocken, this is pretty close, just slightly off-dry. Big, vibrant acids, lime and peach with some light herbsl notes and long minerally finish. Took a while but Im becoming Keller fan B+/A-
>
> Saturday I worked but we went to join some marchers for dinner (Johns short ribs, risotto, and salad)
>
> NV Mionetto Prosecco
> The Raventos cava was gone when we got there, a glass of this showed sweet, appley, and simple. C+
>
> NV Taittinger €œLa Francaise€� Brut Champagne
> From private sale, think this had quite a bit of cellar time, some mature nutty/briochey notes, but plenty of fizz and apple/pear/lemon fruit. More complex than a recent release. B+/B
>
> 2000 Ch. La Garde (Pessac-Leognan)
> Double decanted before we went to dinner, nice showing. Still some tannin, but plenty of black cherry and currant fruit, some tobacco leaf, earth. Just entering drinking window. Not especially complex, but this was $16 on release. B/B+
>
> Sunday with leftovers (chicken, cauliflower, et al) while Betsy was at a post concert party, the
> 1997 Vissoux/Chermette €œPoncie€� Fleurie. At first I thought past it, but as initial bottle funk blew away nice black plum and cherry fruit showed up, with saddle leather and cedar notes. Good acids, finish not real long but nice wine for a couple hours. Then it began to crack up, disjointed and with emerging ashtray. But till then solid B.
>
> Monday my flight made it out of White Plains late but almost ahead of storm, got rental in Atlanta and headed north. Met college roommate and his wife at a tavern, I had shrimp and grits and a glass of 2015 Whitehaven Sauvignon Blanc. Soft, hint of sweetness, apple and lemongrass, some grassy notes, ok. B-
> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C drinkable. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice.Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

My cellar is an active cellar which I maintain at 55F ad 70% humidity. It's been this way since 1991. My wines generally are in excellent shape as most were purchased on release. I have very old wines that I bought or were gifts that I cant prove provenance on but for the most part I have very few wines that have gone bad pr aged prematurely. That being said...some wines were just not built to last and others that I figured were long since over the hill were shockingly youthful so you can never tell until you open them.