2012 Laurent Miquel Vin de Pays d'Oc Vérité Viognier ****

Smooth, Creamy like chardonnay. Citrus and mirabelle plum, butter. Crisp Finish, texture like granite, subnotes of stone.

My wife thought it was bitter.

2006 Domaine Michelas-St. Jemms Cornas Les Murettes *****

Last bottle was lacking something, but this time around it certainly did not. Last time I decanted just an hour or two, this time 6 hours.

Subtle dark fruits, blackberry and black currant, with smoked spanish paprika, black olives, wet stones in a farmyard, earth, mushrooms, decomposing wood. I totally love this type of wine. for me, this is the type of wine only France can do, and noone even gets close.

Sadly, my wife dont see the magic here. She said there's a reason they dont sell olive juice, even though she loves olives. haha, while she likes wines that taste like chocolate and its normal to drink liquid chocolate.

Michael Nielsen > wrote in
:

> She said there's a reason they
> dont sell olive juice,

what do you think is Extra Virgin Olive Oil other than olive juice?

On Saturday, May 2, 2015 at 2:27:06 AM UTC+2, santiago wrote:
> > She said there's a reason they
> > dont sell olive juice,
>
> what do you think is Extra Virgin Olive Oil other than olive juice?

lol I think olive juice would be something with the oil removed though

On Friday, May 1, 2015 at 4:42:43 PM UTC-4, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> 2012 Laurent Miquel Vin de Pays d'Oc Vérité Viognier ****
>
> Smooth, Creamy like chardonnay. Citrus and mirabelle plum, butter. Crisp Finish, texture like granite, subnotes of stone.
>
> My wife thought it was bitter.
>
> 2006 Domaine Michelas-St. Jemms Cornas Les Murettes *****
>
> Last bottle was lacking something, but this time around it certainly did not. Last time I decanted just an hour or two, this time 6 hours.
>
> Subtle dark fruits, blackberry and black currant, with smoked spanish paprika, black olives, wet stones in a farmyard, earth, mushrooms, decomposing wood. I totally love this type of wine. for me, this is the type of wine only France can do, and noone even gets close.
>
> Sadly, my wife dont see the magic here. She said there's a reason they dont sell olive juice, even though she loves olives. haha, while she likes wines that taste like chocolate and its normal to drink liquid chocolate.

Im not sure I understand your comment about Viognier being smooth and creamy like Chardonnay. Im not sure what Chards you're referring to. What is your frame of reference?

On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 3:11:59 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
> Im not sure I understand your comment about Viognier being smooth and creamy like Chardonnay. Im not sure what Chards you're referring to. What is your frame of reference?

Napa and Russian River chardonnays.

On 5/4/15 9:11 AM, Bi!! wrote:
> Im not sure I understand your comment about Viognier being smooth and
> creamy like Chardonnay. Im not sure what Chards you're referring to.
> What is your frame of reference?

Bill, it makes good sense to me. Both Chardonnay and Viognier are
heavier-bodied whites, though Viognier is usually lower acid (barring
the exceptional Condrieu) often have higher alcohol levels. Of course,
if your standard for Chardonnay (like mine) is Chablis, then all bets
are off.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 11:39:20 AM UTC-4, Mark Lipton wrote:
> On 5/4/15 9:11 AM, Bi!! wrote:
> > Im not sure I understand your comment about Viognier being smooth and
> > creamy like Chardonnay. Im not sure what Chards you're referring to.
> > What is your frame of reference?
>
> Bill, it makes good sense to me. Both Chardonnay and Viognier are
> heavier-bodied whites, though Viognier is usually lower acid (barring
> the exceptional Condrieu) often have higher alcohol levels. Of course,
> if your standard for Chardonnay (like mine) is Chablis, then all bets
> are off.
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

I do drink a lot of Chablis and White Burgundy but I also drink a lot of Napa/Sonoma Chardonnay and while one can find Malo heavy chardonnay from those areas I find many tend towards the Burgundian model these days. Rhone whites in general tend to have a heavy almost oily texture that I don't find in Chardonnay in general. Currently Ive been drinking a lot of Faila, Nieman Cellars, Ramey, Au Bon Climat, Melville.

On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 8:16:35 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
> I do drink a lot of Chablis and White Burgundy but I also drink a lot of Napa/Sonoma Chardonnay and while one can find Malo heavy chardonnay from those areas I find many tend towards the Burgundian model these days. Rhone whites in general tend to have a heavy almost oily texture that I don't find in Chardonnay in general. Currently Ive been drinking a lot of Faila, Nieman Cellars, Ramey, Au Bon Climat, Melville.


Have you tried Pine Ridge Dijon Clones? it costs the same as the Ramey I tried and liked a lot, but is accessible in my town (not 300km away like Ramey).

Michael Nielsen > wrote in
:

>
> Have you tried Pine Ridge Dijon Clones? it costs the same as the Ramey
> I tried and liked a lot, but is accessible in my town (not 300km away
> like Ramey).

Is Ramey available in Europe? Where? Do they have online shopping?

On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 9:03:22 AM UTC-4, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> On Monday, May 4, 2015 at 8:16:35 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
> > I do drink a lot of Chablis and White Burgundy but I also drink a lot of Napa/Sonoma Chardonnay and while one can find Malo heavy chardonnay from those areas I find many tend towards the Burgundian model these days. Rhone whites in general tend to have a heavy almost oily texture that I don't find in Chardonnay in general. Currently Ive been drinking a lot of Faila, Nieman Cellars, Ramey, Au Bon Climat, Melville.
>
>
> Have you tried Pine Ridge Dijon Clones? it costs the same as the Ramey I tried and liked a lot, but is accessible in my town (not 300km away like Ramey).

Your English (like most everybody here) is so good I did't realize you were not in the US. Sorry. I have tried Pine Ridge. Like many California Chardonays I find it a bit too ripe and heavy but I understand your connection between Viognier and Chardonay now.

On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 8:25:39 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
> > Have you tried Pine Ridge Dijon Clones? it costs the same as the Ramey I tried and liked a lot, but is accessible in my town (not 300km away like Ramey).
>
> Your English (like most everybody here) is so good I did't realize you were not in the US. Sorry. I have tried Pine Ridge. Like many California Chardonnays I find it a bit too ripe and heavy but I understand your connection between Viognier and Chardonnay now.

Im Danish but I have lived and worked in Davis. I work with international R&D and got an academic carrier, and have an Italian wife. So English is almost like a second primary language.

So you mean that Ramey is more "burgundian" (less cream, more acid) than Pine Ridge? How would you place Rombauer/Graham (which I like) on that scale?

On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 4:55:37 PM UTC+2, santiago wrote:
>
> Is Ramey available in Europe? Where? Do they have online shopping?

I got it in Aalborg, Denmark (my home town).

http://www.smv.dk/front/RameyWineCellars.pdf

They are a bit funny. Its mainly a wholesale store for restaurants, but they do have a store front for consumers. But you can't generally see their stock and shop online. I got a booklet with their stock and price list, last time I was there.

On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 10:43:24 PM UTC+2, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> They are a bit funny. Its mainly a wholesale store for restaurants, but they do have a store front for consumers. But you can't generally see their stock and shop online. I got a booklet with their stock and price list, last time I was there.

Btw this store is also how I got introduced to Tondonia. When they decided to stop carrying them, they sold me a whole box of Tondonia Grand Reserva 1981 for 24 euro per bottle Its the first time I ever bought a box of wine.

Now I wish I had bought more boxes.

On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 4:40:15 PM UTC-4, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 8:25:39 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
> > > Have you tried Pine Ridge Dijon Clones? it costs the same as the Ramey I tried and liked a lot, but is accessible in my town (not 300km away like Ramey).
> >
> > Your English (like most everybody here) is so good I did't realize you were not in the US. Sorry. I have tried Pine Ridge. Like many California Chardonnays I find it a bit too ripe and heavy but I understand your connection between Viognier and Chardonnay now.
>
> Im Danish but I have lived and worked in Davis. I work with international R&D and got an academic carrier, and have an Italian wife. So English is almost like a second primary language.
>
> So you mean that Ramey is more "burgundian" (less cream, more acid) than Pine Ridge? How would you place Rombauer/Graham (which I like) on that scale?

Haven't had Graham but Rombauer is (to my taste) extremely ripe, sweet and very creamy. Ramey is far more balanced and shows far more acid than Pine Ridge. To be fair Ramey costs quite a bit more than Pine Ridge and Rombauer..

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-6, Bi!! wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 4:40:15 PM UTC-4, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 8:25:39 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
> > > > Have you tried Pine Ridge Dijon Clones? it costs the same as the Ramey I tried and liked a lot, but is accessible in my town (not 300km away like Ramey).
> > >
> > > Your English (like most everybody here) is so good I did't realize you were not in the US. Sorry. I have tried Pine Ridge. Like many California Chardonnays I find it a bit too ripe and heavy but I understand your connection between Viognier and Chardonnay now.
> >
> > Im Danish but I have lived and worked in Davis. I work with international R&D and got an academic carrier, and have an Italian wife. So English is almost like a second primary language.
> >
> > So you mean that Ramey is more "burgundian" (less cream, more acid) than Pine Ridge? How would you place Rombauer/Graham (which I like) on that scale?
>
> Haven't had Graham but Rombauer is (to my taste) extremely ripe, sweet and very creamy. Ramey is far more balanced and shows far more acid than Pine Ridge. To be fair Ramey costs quite a bit more than Pine Ridge and Rombauer.

Rombauer uses too much oak to me and the less expensive bottlings of Ramey do as well. Hudson and Hyde are the best balanced with little to no malolactic fermentation but are in the $50-60 range.

On 06/05/2015 9:47 AM, Bi!! wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 4:40:15 PM UTC-4, Michael Nielsen wrote:
>> On Tuesday, May 5, 2015 at 8:25:39 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
>>>> Have you tried Pine Ridge Dijon Clones? it costs the same as the Ramey I tried and liked a lot, but is accessible in my town (not 300km away like Ramey).
>>>
>>> Your English (like most everybody here) is so good I did't realize you were not in the US. Sorry. I have tried Pine Ridge. Like many California Chardonnays I find it a bit too ripe and heavy but I understand your connection between Viognier and Chardonnay now.
>>
>> Im Danish but I have lived and worked in Davis. I work with international R&D and got an academic carrier, and have an Italian wife. So English is almost like a second primary language.
>>
>> So you mean that Ramey is more "burgundian" (less cream, more acid) than Pine Ridge? How would you place Rombauer/Graham (which I like) on that scale?
>
> Haven't had Graham but Rombauer is (to my taste) extremely ripe, sweet and very creamy. Ramey is far more balanced and shows far more acid than Pine Ridge. To be fair Ramey costs quite a bit more than Pine Ridge and Rombauer.
>
What is your opinion of Walter Hansel from Russian River?
Graham

--

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 5:47:32 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
> Haven't had Graham but Rombauer is (to my taste) extremely ripe, sweet and very creamy. Ramey is far more balanced and shows far more acid than Pine Ridge. To be fair Ramey costs quite a bit more than Pine Ridge and Rombauer.

Hmm, the Ramey (45$) is actually a bit cheaper here than the pine ridge (50$).
So am I understanding these comments correctly that pine ridge is closer to Rombauer (not avail. here unfortunately for me. I wish.)?

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 6:47:38 PM UTC+2, lleichtman wrote:
> Hudson and Hyde are the best balanced with little to no malolactic fermentation.

I'll stay clear of those , then.

On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 6:47:46 PM UTC-4, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 6:47:38 PM UTC+2, lleichtman wrote:
> > Hudson and Hyde are the best balanced with little to no malolactic fermentation.
>
> I'll stay clear of those , then.

You tend towards the non-malo chardonnays?

On Thursday, May 7, 2015 at 5:34:52 PM UTC+2, Bi!! wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 6:47:46 PM UTC-4, Michael Nielsen wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 6, 2015 at 6:47:38 PM UTC+2, lleichtman wrote:
> > > Hudson and Hyde are the best balanced with little to no malolactic fermentation.
> >
> > I'll stay clear of those , then.
>
> You tend towards the non-malo chardonnays?

No, I want malo, that's why I now know to not save money for the more expensive Hudson and Hyde, since I'll like the normal one better.