Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.

In article >, ewan.mcnay@yale
..edu says...
>
>Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
>last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
>alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
>brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.

Off the top, I'd speculate that your bottle suffered from cork taint/TCA. The
"brick" (I read some earthiness there), the "musty" aspect, and the heat from
lack of fruit are common occurances, that I attribute to a tainted red. In
whites, the acidity usually climbs noticably, as well. The Shafer reds usually
show great fruit, whether Cab or Merlot. I also doubt that a well-crafted '97
CA Merlot would be over the hill, though it could happen.

If possible, I'd return any un-consumed portion of this wine to the retailer,
and ask for a replacement/refund. Most will receive full credit from their
distributor, and would rather have a happy customer, than nick you for a
bottle of wine. The wine makers too, are more interested in replacing an "off
bottle," than loosing a supporter. I've only had one instance of someone not
wanting to replace a corked bottle, and that was in a high-end restaurant.
After much huffing and blustering, the sommelier allowed as how the chef would
cook with the "offending bottle," and inquired,"and what would Monsieur want
in replacement?" To which, I replied, "another non-corked bottle of Shafer Red
Shoulder Ranch, of course!" Every other corked bottle, retail, or restaurant,
has been promptly replaced with an apology.

Hunt

In article >, ewan.mcnay@yale
..edu says...
>
>Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
>last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
>alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
>brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.

Off the top, I'd speculate that your bottle suffered from cork taint/TCA. The
"brick" (I read some earthiness there), the "musty" aspect, and the heat from
lack of fruit are common occurances, that I attribute to a tainted red. In
whites, the acidity usually climbs noticably, as well. The Shafer reds usually
show great fruit, whether Cab or Merlot. I also doubt that a well-crafted '97
CA Merlot would be over the hill, though it could happen.

If possible, I'd return any un-consumed portion of this wine to the retailer,
and ask for a replacement/refund. Most will receive full credit from their
distributor, and would rather have a happy customer, than nick you for a
bottle of wine. The wine makers too, are more interested in replacing an "off
bottle," than loosing a supporter. I've only had one instance of someone not
wanting to replace a corked bottle, and that was in a high-end restaurant.
After much huffing and blustering, the sommelier allowed as how the chef would
cook with the "offending bottle," and inquired,"and what would Monsieur want
in replacement?" To which, I replied, "another non-corked bottle of Shafer Red
Shoulder Ranch, of course!" Every other corked bottle, retail, or restaurant,
has been promptly replaced with an apology.

Hunt

In article >, ewan.mcnay@yale
..edu says...
>
>Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
>last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
>alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
>brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.

Off the top, I'd speculate that your bottle suffered from cork taint/TCA. The
"brick" (I read some earthiness there), the "musty" aspect, and the heat from
lack of fruit are common occurances, that I attribute to a tainted red. In
whites, the acidity usually climbs noticably, as well. The Shafer reds usually
show great fruit, whether Cab or Merlot. I also doubt that a well-crafted '97
CA Merlot would be over the hill, though it could happen.

If possible, I'd return any un-consumed portion of this wine to the retailer,
and ask for a replacement/refund. Most will receive full credit from their
distributor, and would rather have a happy customer, than nick you for a
bottle of wine. The wine makers too, are more interested in replacing an "off
bottle," than loosing a supporter. I've only had one instance of someone not
wanting to replace a corked bottle, and that was in a high-end restaurant.
After much huffing and blustering, the sommelier allowed as how the chef would
cook with the "offending bottle," and inquired,"and what would Monsieur want
in replacement?" To which, I replied, "another non-corked bottle of Shafer Red
Shoulder Ranch, of course!" Every other corked bottle, retail, or restaurant,
has been promptly replaced with an apology.

Hunt

Hunt wrote:

> In article >, ewan.mcnay@yale
> .edu says...
>
>>Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
>>last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
>>alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
>>brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.
>
>
> Off the top, I'd speculate that your bottle suffered from cork taint/TCA. The
> "brick" (I read some earthiness there), the "musty" aspect, and the heat from
> lack of fruit are common occurances, that I attribute to a tainted red. In
> whites, the acidity usually climbs noticably, as well. The Shafer reds usually
> show great fruit, whether Cab or Merlot. I also doubt that a well-crafted '97
> CA Merlot would be over the hill, though it could happen.
>
> If possible, I'd return any un-consumed portion of this wine to the retailer,
> and ask for a replacement/refund. Most will receive full credit from their
> distributor, and would rather have a happy customer, than nick you for a
> bottle of wine. The wine makers too, are more interested in replacing an "off
> bottle," than loosing a supporter. I've only had one instance of someone not
> wanting to replace a corked bottle, and that was in a high-end restaurant.
> After much huffing and blustering, the sommelier allowed as how the chef would
> cook with the "offending bottle," and inquired,"and what would Monsieur want
> in replacement?" To which, I replied, "another non-corked bottle of Shafer Red
> Shoulder Ranch, of course!" Every other corked bottle, retail, or restaurant,
> has been promptly replaced with an apology.

You're luckier than I, Hunt. As a hypersensitive to TCA, I've had to
engage in some lengthy discussions with servers at restaurants (and even
at some wine tastings) before they believed that I was complaining about
cork taint and not simply a wine that I disliked. At one charity event,
I created quite a stir (unintentionally) when I informed the pourer that
the '98 Mouton that he was pouring was corked. Denial, incredulity and
ignorant counterarguments ("Mouton's corks are never tainted! They have
very strict quality control!!") followed until I finally walked away in
disgust. Here in Indiana, it's not uncommon for servers to be
unfamiliar with the notion of cork taint. Fortunately, I'm old enough
and self-assured enough to not back down during such confrontations.

Mark Lipton

Hunt wrote:

> In article >, ewan.mcnay@yale
> .edu says...
>
>>Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
>>last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
>>alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
>>brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.
>
>
> Off the top, I'd speculate that your bottle suffered from cork taint/TCA. The
> "brick" (I read some earthiness there), the "musty" aspect, and the heat from
> lack of fruit are common occurances, that I attribute to a tainted red. In
> whites, the acidity usually climbs noticably, as well. The Shafer reds usually
> show great fruit, whether Cab or Merlot. I also doubt that a well-crafted '97
> CA Merlot would be over the hill, though it could happen.
>
> If possible, I'd return any un-consumed portion of this wine to the retailer,
> and ask for a replacement/refund. Most will receive full credit from their
> distributor, and would rather have a happy customer, than nick you for a
> bottle of wine. The wine makers too, are more interested in replacing an "off
> bottle," than loosing a supporter. I've only had one instance of someone not
> wanting to replace a corked bottle, and that was in a high-end restaurant.
> After much huffing and blustering, the sommelier allowed as how the chef would
> cook with the "offending bottle," and inquired,"and what would Monsieur want
> in replacement?" To which, I replied, "another non-corked bottle of Shafer Red
> Shoulder Ranch, of course!" Every other corked bottle, retail, or restaurant,
> has been promptly replaced with an apology.

You're luckier than I, Hunt. As a hypersensitive to TCA, I've had to
engage in some lengthy discussions with servers at restaurants (and even
at some wine tastings) before they believed that I was complaining about
cork taint and not simply a wine that I disliked. At one charity event,
I created quite a stir (unintentionally) when I informed the pourer that
the '98 Mouton that he was pouring was corked. Denial, incredulity and
ignorant counterarguments ("Mouton's corks are never tainted! They have
very strict quality control!!") followed until I finally walked away in
disgust. Here in Indiana, it's not uncommon for servers to be
unfamiliar with the notion of cork taint. Fortunately, I'm old enough
and self-assured enough to not back down during such confrontations.

Mark Lipton

I accept that TCA is quite possible.

However, either (i) I am not sensitive to this, or (ii) I simply don't
know the smell.

To determine which it is, should I simply try to get some from Sigma?

The bottle in question came from the winery, in CA, and hence is
likely not worthwhile visiting from CT for the purpose . Thanks for
the comment, though - appreciated.

E

Mark Lipton wrote:

> Hunt wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> ewan.mcnay@yale
>> .edu says...
>>
>>> Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
>>> last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
>>> alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
>>> brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Off the top, I'd speculate that your bottle suffered from cork
>> taint/TCA. The "brick" (I read some earthiness there), the "musty"
>> aspect, and the heat from lack of fruit are common occurances, that I
>> attribute to a tainted red. In whites, the acidity usually climbs
>> noticably, as well. The Shafer reds usually show great fruit, whether
>> Cab or Merlot. I also doubt that a well-crafted '97 CA Merlot would be
>> over the hill, though it could happen.
>>
>> If possible, I'd return any un-consumed portion of this wine to the
>> retailer, and ask for a replacement/refund. Most will receive full
>> credit from their distributor, and would rather have a happy customer,
>> than nick you for a bottle of wine. The wine makers too, are more
>> interested in replacing an "off bottle," than loosing a supporter.
>> I've only had one instance of someone not wanting to replace a corked
>> bottle, and that was in a high-end restaurant. After much huffing and
>> blustering, the sommelier allowed as how the chef would cook with the
>> "offending bottle," and inquired,"and what would Monsieur want in
>> replacement?" To which, I replied, "another non-corked bottle of
>> Shafer Red Shoulder Ranch, of course!" Every other corked bottle,
>> retail, or restaurant, has been promptly replaced with an apology.
>
>
> You're luckier than I, Hunt. As a hypersensitive to TCA, I've had to
> engage in some lengthy discussions with servers at restaurants (and even
> at some wine tastings) before they believed that I was complaining about
> cork taint and not simply a wine that I disliked. At one charity event,
> I created quite a stir (unintentionally) when I informed the pourer that
> the '98 Mouton that he was pouring was corked. Denial, incredulity and
> ignorant counterarguments ("Mouton's corks are never tainted! They have
> very strict quality control!!") followed until I finally walked away in
> disgust. Here in Indiana, it's not uncommon for servers to be
> unfamiliar with the notion of cork taint. Fortunately, I'm old enough
> and self-assured enough to not back down during such confrontations.
>
> Mark Lipton

I accept that TCA is quite possible.

However, either (i) I am not sensitive to this, or (ii) I simply don't
know the smell.

To determine which it is, should I simply try to get some from Sigma?

The bottle in question came from the winery, in CA, and hence is
likely not worthwhile visiting from CT for the purpose . Thanks for
the comment, though - appreciated.

E

Mark Lipton wrote:

> Hunt wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> ewan.mcnay@yale
>> .edu says...
>>
>>> Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
>>> last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
>>> alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
>>> brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Off the top, I'd speculate that your bottle suffered from cork
>> taint/TCA. The "brick" (I read some earthiness there), the "musty"
>> aspect, and the heat from lack of fruit are common occurances, that I
>> attribute to a tainted red. In whites, the acidity usually climbs
>> noticably, as well. The Shafer reds usually show great fruit, whether
>> Cab or Merlot. I also doubt that a well-crafted '97 CA Merlot would be
>> over the hill, though it could happen.
>>
>> If possible, I'd return any un-consumed portion of this wine to the
>> retailer, and ask for a replacement/refund. Most will receive full
>> credit from their distributor, and would rather have a happy customer,
>> than nick you for a bottle of wine. The wine makers too, are more
>> interested in replacing an "off bottle," than loosing a supporter.
>> I've only had one instance of someone not wanting to replace a corked
>> bottle, and that was in a high-end restaurant. After much huffing and
>> blustering, the sommelier allowed as how the chef would cook with the
>> "offending bottle," and inquired,"and what would Monsieur want in
>> replacement?" To which, I replied, "another non-corked bottle of
>> Shafer Red Shoulder Ranch, of course!" Every other corked bottle,
>> retail, or restaurant, has been promptly replaced with an apology.
>
>
> You're luckier than I, Hunt. As a hypersensitive to TCA, I've had to
> engage in some lengthy discussions with servers at restaurants (and even
> at some wine tastings) before they believed that I was complaining about
> cork taint and not simply a wine that I disliked. At one charity event,
> I created quite a stir (unintentionally) when I informed the pourer that
> the '98 Mouton that he was pouring was corked. Denial, incredulity and
> ignorant counterarguments ("Mouton's corks are never tainted! They have
> very strict quality control!!") followed until I finally walked away in
> disgust. Here in Indiana, it's not uncommon for servers to be
> unfamiliar with the notion of cork taint. Fortunately, I'm old enough
> and self-assured enough to not back down during such confrontations.
>
> Mark Lipton

Ewan wrote:
> Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
> last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
> alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
> brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.

Sounds like a mildly "corked" bottle. Depending on
your sensitivity to TCA, it might not smell obviously
bad, but is instead dead like you describe.

Dana

Ewan wrote:
> Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
> last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
> alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
> brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.

Sounds like a mildly "corked" bottle. Depending on
your sensitivity to TCA, it might not smell obviously
bad, but is instead dead like you describe.

Dana

In article >, says...
>
>Hunt wrote:
>
>> In article >, ewan.
mcnay@yale
>> .edu says...
>>
>>>Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
>>>last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
>>>alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
>>>brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.
>>
>>
>> Off the top, I'd speculate that your bottle suffered from cork taint/TCA.
The
>> "brick" (I read some earthiness there), the "musty" aspect, and the heat
from
>> lack of fruit are common occurances, that I attribute to a tainted red. In
>> whites, the acidity usually climbs noticably, as well. The Shafer reds
usually
>
>> show great fruit, whether Cab or Merlot. I also doubt that a well-crafted
'97
>> CA Merlot would be over the hill, though it could happen.
>>
>> If possible, I'd return any un-consumed portion of this wine to the
retailer,
>> and ask for a replacement/refund. Most will receive full credit from their
>> distributor, and would rather have a happy customer, than nick you for a
>> bottle of wine. The wine makers too, are more interested in replacing an "
off
>> bottle," than loosing a supporter. I've only had one instance of someone
not
>> wanting to replace a corked bottle, and that was in a high-end restaurant.
>> After much huffing and blustering, the sommelier allowed as how the chef
would
>
>> cook with the "offending bottle," and inquired,"and what would Monsieur
want
>> in replacement?" To which, I replied, "another non-corked bottle of Shafer
Red
>
>> Shoulder Ranch, of course!" Every other corked bottle, retail, or
restaurant,
>> has been promptly replaced with an apology.
>
>You're luckier than I, Hunt. As a hypersensitive to TCA, I've had to
>engage in some lengthy discussions with servers at restaurants (and even
>at some wine tastings) before they believed that I was complaining about
>cork taint and not simply a wine that I disliked. At one charity event,
>I created quite a stir (unintentionally) when I informed the pourer that
>the '98 Mouton that he was pouring was corked. Denial, incredulity and
>ignorant counterarguments ("Mouton's corks are never tainted! They have
>very strict quality control!!") followed until I finally walked away in
>disgust. Here in Indiana, it's not uncommon for servers to be
>unfamiliar with the notion of cork taint. Fortunately, I'm old enough
>and self-assured enough to not back down during such confrontations.
>
>Mark Lipton

I think that it is JUST luck, and good fortune with most servers. I too have a
hypersensitivity to TCA, and my wife is not far behind. I've stopped servers
heading to other tables with "by-the-glass" wines, and whispered that they
need to check, at least one of them for taint. I've almost always gotten a
whispered, "thank you," in return.

Totally off subject, you say Indiana? Have you had any experience with St Elmo
Steakhouse in Indianapolis? We just had a marginally OK dinner there, and
wondered about others' take on that establishment.

As for the Mouton, the server should learn his/her craft better and not make
blanket pronouncements, especially to so obviously well-versed a diner, as
you. I guess that for every 1000 good sommeliers, there is one, who acts as "
ours" did. Probably not bad odds, but I sure remember the bad ones!

Hunt

In article >, says...
>
>Hunt wrote:
>
>> In article >, ewan.
mcnay@yale
>> .edu says...
>>
>>>Despite being from one of my favourite makers, this - which we opened
>>>last night - was a disappointment, and perhaps well past optimum. The
>>>alcohol - 14% - dominates too much, and the dominant taste was of
>>>brick, with only minimal and musty fruit. Disappointing indeed.
>>
>>
>> Off the top, I'd speculate that your bottle suffered from cork taint/TCA.
The
>> "brick" (I read some earthiness there), the "musty" aspect, and the heat
from
>> lack of fruit are common occurances, that I attribute to a tainted red. In
>> whites, the acidity usually climbs noticably, as well. The Shafer reds
usually
>
>> show great fruit, whether Cab or Merlot. I also doubt that a well-crafted
'97
>> CA Merlot would be over the hill, though it could happen.
>>
>> If possible, I'd return any un-consumed portion of this wine to the
retailer,
>> and ask for a replacement/refund. Most will receive full credit from their
>> distributor, and would rather have a happy customer, than nick you for a
>> bottle of wine. The wine makers too, are more interested in replacing an "
off
>> bottle," than loosing a supporter. I've only had one instance of someone
not
>> wanting to replace a corked bottle, and that was in a high-end restaurant.
>> After much huffing and blustering, the sommelier allowed as how the chef
would
>
>> cook with the "offending bottle," and inquired,"and what would Monsieur
want
>> in replacement?" To which, I replied, "another non-corked bottle of Shafer
Red
>
>> Shoulder Ranch, of course!" Every other corked bottle, retail, or
restaurant,
>> has been promptly replaced with an apology.
>
>You're luckier than I, Hunt. As a hypersensitive to TCA, I've had to
>engage in some lengthy discussions with servers at restaurants (and even
>at some wine tastings) before they believed that I was complaining about
>cork taint and not simply a wine that I disliked. At one charity event,
>I created quite a stir (unintentionally) when I informed the pourer that
>the '98 Mouton that he was pouring was corked. Denial, incredulity and
>ignorant counterarguments ("Mouton's corks are never tainted! They have
>very strict quality control!!") followed until I finally walked away in
>disgust. Here in Indiana, it's not uncommon for servers to be
>unfamiliar with the notion of cork taint. Fortunately, I'm old enough
>and self-assured enough to not back down during such confrontations.
>
>Mark Lipton

I think that it is JUST luck, and good fortune with most servers. I too have a
hypersensitivity to TCA, and my wife is not far behind. I've stopped servers
heading to other tables with "by-the-glass" wines, and whispered that they
need to check, at least one of them for taint. I've almost always gotten a
whispered, "thank you," in return.

Totally off subject, you say Indiana? Have you had any experience with St Elmo
Steakhouse in Indianapolis? We just had a marginally OK dinner there, and
wondered about others' take on that establishment.

As for the Mouton, the server should learn his/her craft better and not make
blanket pronouncements, especially to so obviously well-versed a diner, as
you. I guess that for every 1000 good sommeliers, there is one, who acts as "
ours" did. Probably not bad odds, but I sure remember the bad ones!

Hunt

In article >, says...
>
>I accept that TCA is quite possible.
>
>However, either (i) I am not sensitive to this, or (ii) I simply don't
>know the smell.
>
>To determine which it is, should I simply try to get some from Sigma?
>
>The bottle in question came from the winery, in CA, and hence is
>likely not worthwhile visiting from CT for the purpose . Thanks for
>the comment, though - appreciated.
>
>E
[SNIP]

You might do well to contact them directly though. Much of my wine comes from
the vineyards/wineries, and while they do not *like* to hear of any problems,
every winery, with whom I have found problem bottles, is very quick to make
amends. Some would like cork lot-numbers, if available, etc. First, they want
to make sure that their clientele has a wonderful example of their art, next
they want to eliminate what they can in the way of a defect. I've never met a
winery owner, who did not go out of their way to insure a perfect experience.
Even "tasting room personnel" are usually quick to respond, running down the
counter grabbing up any suspect wine, and pouring from a new, tested bottle.
It's about their image, and their life.

In some other thread, I'll share a TCA/wineery employee anectdote.

Hunt

In article >, says...
>
>I accept that TCA is quite possible.
>
>However, either (i) I am not sensitive to this, or (ii) I simply don't
>know the smell.
>
>To determine which it is, should I simply try to get some from Sigma?
>
>The bottle in question came from the winery, in CA, and hence is
>likely not worthwhile visiting from CT for the purpose . Thanks for
>the comment, though - appreciated.
>
>E
[SNIP]

You might do well to contact them directly though. Much of my wine comes from
the vineyards/wineries, and while they do not *like* to hear of any problems,
every winery, with whom I have found problem bottles, is very quick to make
amends. Some would like cork lot-numbers, if available, etc. First, they want
to make sure that their clientele has a wonderful example of their art, next
they want to eliminate what they can in the way of a defect. I've never met a
winery owner, who did not go out of their way to insure a perfect experience.
Even "tasting room personnel" are usually quick to respond, running down the
counter grabbing up any suspect wine, and pouring from a new, tested bottle.
It's about their image, and their life.

In some other thread, I'll share a TCA/wineery employee anectdote.

Hunt

With thanks again to Hunt for suggestion -

- Shafer did, indeed, request that I ship back the undrunk portion
and offered replacement. Quite *how* they're going to replace to CT
is not, yet, my problem .

With thanks again to Hunt for suggestion -

- Shafer did, indeed, request that I ship back the undrunk portion
and offered replacement. Quite *how* they're going to replace to CT
is not, yet, my problem .

In article >,
Ewan McNay > wrote:

> With thanks again to Hunt for suggestion -
>
> - Shafer did, indeed, request that I ship back the undrunk portion
> and offered replacement. Quite *how* they're going to replace to CT
> is not, yet, my problem .
>
>

I just opened a bottle of the Shafer Merlot form '97 that was impeccably
stored and it was great. Good to hear they are honorable folks to take
the bottle back.

In article >,
Ewan McNay > wrote:

> With thanks again to Hunt for suggestion -
>
> - Shafer did, indeed, request that I ship back the undrunk portion
> and offered replacement. Quite *how* they're going to replace to CT
> is not, yet, my problem .
>
>

I just opened a bottle of the Shafer Merlot form '97 that was impeccably
stored and it was great. Good to hear they are honorable folks to take
the bottle back.

In article >, larry@lleichtman.
org says...
>
>In article >,
> Ewan McNay > wrote:
>
>> With thanks again to Hunt for suggestion -
>>
>> - Shafer did, indeed, request that I ship back the undrunk portion
>> and offered replacement. Quite *how* they're going to replace to CT
>> is not, yet, my problem .
>>
>>
>
>I just opened a bottle of the Shafer Merlot form '97 that was impeccably
>stored and it was great. Good to hear they are honorable folks to take
>the bottle back.

My experiences have indicated that this is the norm for both winemakers and
retailers, who appreciate one's patronage and love their wines. Were it I, the
bottle would be quickly replaced with an apology, hoping that this person
would be able to see how good the wines really are.

Hunt