Being Portuguese I may sound suspicious. But I believe Portugal has some of
the greatest wines worldwide. Many of them beat the most famous French
ones.



If some of you have studied economics, you probably remember the classic
example in international economics of David Ricardo in beginning 19th
century, stating that "Portugal has a comparative advantage over England on
wines, thus will export wines and import textiles"



I must say that he was right. Though most of our wines are not very well
known worldwide.



My comment is, I frequently read this news, but don't ever find any comments
on Portuguese wines. Don't you guys know them?



Compliments from sunny Portugal

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:11:13 +0100, "Ricardo Ferreira"
> wrote:

>Being Portuguese I may sound suspicious. But I believe Portugal has some of
>the greatest wines worldwide. Many of them beat the most famous French
>ones.

Hi Ricardo

the concept of "beating" is a strange one in the wine world... but I
understand what you mean. A recent trip to Aveiro (after a long
absence from Portugal) revealed to me how much progress has been done.

>My comment is, I frequently read this news, but don't ever find any comments
>on Portuguese wines. Don't you guys know them?

Well, statistically the chances of Portuguese wines being mentioned on
AFW are about the same as the world market share of Portugal, so don't
take it as a snub, it's normal. If you read back a bit, there are many
regular long threads on Porto and Madeira, and there has been some
discussion of other wines.

Why don't you try to introduce us to the young generation of
winemakers of your country? Are they holding to tradition or trying to
make Parkerized wines, are they respecting their grapes or covering
all that sun-drenched maturity with too much wood, like so many
Spanish and italian wines these days?

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:11:13 +0100, "Ricardo Ferreira"
> wrote:

>Being Portuguese I may sound suspicious. But I believe Portugal has some of
>the greatest wines worldwide. Many of them beat the most famous French
>ones.

Hi Ricardo

the concept of "beating" is a strange one in the wine world... but I
understand what you mean. A recent trip to Aveiro (after a long
absence from Portugal) revealed to me how much progress has been done.

>My comment is, I frequently read this news, but don't ever find any comments
>on Portuguese wines. Don't you guys know them?

Well, statistically the chances of Portuguese wines being mentioned on
AFW are about the same as the world market share of Portugal, so don't
take it as a snub, it's normal. If you read back a bit, there are many
regular long threads on Porto and Madeira, and there has been some
discussion of other wines.

Why don't you try to introduce us to the young generation of
winemakers of your country? Are they holding to tradition or trying to
make Parkerized wines, are they respecting their grapes or covering
all that sun-drenched maturity with too much wood, like so many
Spanish and italian wines these days?

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:11:13 +0100, "Ricardo Ferreira"
> wrote:

>Being Portuguese I may sound suspicious. But I believe Portugal has some of
>the greatest wines worldwide. Many of them beat the most famous French
>ones.

Hi Ricardo

the concept of "beating" is a strange one in the wine world... but I
understand what you mean. A recent trip to Aveiro (after a long
absence from Portugal) revealed to me how much progress has been done.

>My comment is, I frequently read this news, but don't ever find any comments
>on Portuguese wines. Don't you guys know them?

Well, statistically the chances of Portuguese wines being mentioned on
AFW are about the same as the world market share of Portugal, so don't
take it as a snub, it's normal. If you read back a bit, there are many
regular long threads on Porto and Madeira, and there has been some
discussion of other wines.

Why don't you try to introduce us to the young generation of
winemakers of your country? Are they holding to tradition or trying to
make Parkerized wines, are they respecting their grapes or covering
all that sun-drenched maturity with too much wood, like so many
Spanish and italian wines these days?

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Thanks for your comments Mike


> Hi Ricardo
>
> the concept of "beating" is a strange one in the wine world... but I
> understand what you mean.



Sorry about that. I didn't mean to be rude, nor to minimize the French
wines. It was just a figure of speech to illustrate a feeling I usually
have when tasting some foreign wines. I find myself thinking "Well, it's
very good, but I also have some good as these back home and they're not even
known"



>
> Why don't you try to introduce us to the young generation of
> winemakers of your country? Are they holding to tradition or trying to
> make Parkerized wines, are they respecting their grapes or covering
> all that sun-drenched maturity with too much wood, like so many
> Spanish and italian wines these days?
>

Well, I may try...



I have been more a reader than a writer. The issue is that I feel I'm not a
specialist to be writing about wines. And, though my english is quite
reasonable, when it comes to ways to adjective and illustrate taste feelings
I do feel a bit uncomfortable.



There is also a second issue.

I've always felt that Portuguese wines don't get the fame they deserve.
Therefore I've opened a online shop on portuguese regional specialties
(wines, pottery, olive oils, ..). It is in www.portugalregional.pt I always
thought that if I would post here any comments people would find it as pure
advertising, inadequate in the newsgroup.



Well, I may try to make some comments without publicity...



regards

ricardo

"Ricardo Ferreira" > wrote:

> I didn't mean to be rude, nor to minimize the French wines. It
> was just a figure of speech to illustrate a feeling I usually
> have when tasting some foreign wines. I find myself thinking
> "Well, it's very good, but I also have some good as these back
> home and they're not even known"

Well, very little of them are known, e.g. the world's best Pinot
Noir not made from Pinot Noir: Dirk van der Niepoort's "Charme".

M.

On 8 Aug 2004 22:19:04 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>"Ricardo Ferreira" > wrote:
>
>> I didn't mean to be rude, nor to minimize the French wines. It
>> was just a figure of speech to illustrate a feeling I usually
>> have when tasting some foreign wines. I find myself thinking
>> "Well, it's very good, but I also have some good as these back
>> home and they're not even known"
>
>Well, very little of them are known, e.g. the world's best Pinot
>Noir not made from Pinot Noir: Dirk van der Niepoort's "Charme".

A Pinot Noir not made from Pinot Noir eh? Does it get called a Noir de
Neant? ;-))

Was ist das, Herr Pronay?

Mike


Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

>>Well, very little of them are known, e.g. the world's best Pinot
>>Noir not made from Pinot Noir: Dirk van der Niepoort's "Charme".
>
> A Pinot Noir not made from Pinot Noir eh? Does it get called a
> Noir de Neant? ;-))
>
> Was ist das, Herr Pronay?
^^^^^^^^^^^ Michael?

I do call you Michele and not Signor' Tommasi – don't I?

Charme: It's a wine made in Burgundian traditions, but from
Portuguese grapes. And it would be guessed as a copybook pinot
noir in any blind tasting.

Jamie Goode's TN of the 2002:

<http://www.wineanorak.com/dinnerwithdirk_2004.htm>

Peter Moser's TN of the experimental 2000:

<http://www.falstaff.at/ttasting-2766.htm>

Another TN from cask of the 2002:

<http://www.finewinediary.com/diary/jul03.php>

Jancis with a few words on the wine:

<http://www.jancisrobinson.com/jr7105.htm>

HTH,

M.

On 9 Aug 2004 08:49:36 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>
>>>Well, very little of them are known, e.g. the world's best Pinot
>>>Noir not made from Pinot Noir: Dirk van der Niepoort's "Charme".
>>
>> A Pinot Noir not made from Pinot Noir eh? Does it get called a
>> Noir de Neant? ;-))
>>
>> Was ist das, Herr Pronay?
> ^^^^^^^^^^^ Michael?
>
>I do call you Michele and not Signor' Tommasi – don't I?

Yes Michael, forgot smilies, that's all...

>
>Charme: It's a wine made in Burgundian traditions, but from
>Portuguese grapes. And it would be guessed as a copybook pinot
>noir in any blind tasting.

Sound interesting. As I have several trips planned to Portugal this
year, I will try to dig deper into this porto-meritage. ;-) So what
are the grapes, baga must be part of it, waht are the others?

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

[Niepoort "Charme"]

> So what are the grapes, baga must be part of it, waht are the
> others?

No, it's quite standard Douro: mainly tinta roriz, some touriga
franca (formerly known as touriga francesa), but everything from
70 year old vines.

M.

On 9 Aug 2004 10:36:48 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>
>[Niepoort "Charme"]
>
>> So what are the grapes, baga must be part of it, waht are the
>> others?
>
>No, it's quite standard Douro: mainly tinta roriz, some touriga
>franca (formerly known as touriga francesa), but everything from
>70 year old vines.

Sounds worth investigating.

What about on the vinho verde front, any alvarinho worth seeking out,
anything comparable to Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela in Galicia?

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On 9 Aug 2004 10:36:48 GMT, Michael Pronay > wrote:

>Mike Tommasi > wrote:
>
>[Niepoort "Charme"]
>
>> So what are the grapes, baga must be part of it, waht are the
>> others?
>
>No, it's quite standard Douro: mainly tinta roriz, some touriga
>franca (formerly known as touriga francesa), but everything from
>70 year old vines.

Sounds worth investigating.

What about on the vinho verde front, any alvarinho worth seeking out,
anything comparable to Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela in Galicia?

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

> What about on the vinho verde front, any alvarinho worth seeking out,
> anything comparable to Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela in Galicia?
>
> Mike
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
>

I do not know either Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela, however a good
Alvarinho that worth looking for is Soalheiro (2003), from the producer
António E. Ferreira. Quite fruity. I believe you'll enjoy it Mike.

Another verde that I usually much appreciate is "Solar das Bouças". It's
not a Alvarinho, as you asked for, but a Loureiro. Very gentle.
I like it!

have a good taste,
ricardo

www.portugalregional.pt

> What about on the vinho verde front, any alvarinho worth seeking out,
> anything comparable to Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela in Galicia?
>
> Mike
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
>

I do not know either Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela, however a good
Alvarinho that worth looking for is Soalheiro (2003), from the producer
António E. Ferreira. Quite fruity. I believe you'll enjoy it Mike.

Another verde that I usually much appreciate is "Solar das Bouças". It's
not a Alvarinho, as you asked for, but a Loureiro. Very gentle.
I like it!

have a good taste,
ricardo

www.portugalregional.pt

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 23:35:58 +0100, "Ricardo Ferreira"
> wrote:

>
>> What about on the vinho verde front, any alvarinho worth seeking out,
>> anything comparable to Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela in Galicia?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
>> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
>>
>
>I do not know either Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela, however a good
>Alvarinho that worth looking for is Soalheiro (2003), from the producer
>António E. Ferreira. Quite fruity. I believe you'll enjoy it Mike.
>
>Another verde that I usually much appreciate is "Solar das Bouças". It's
>not a Alvarinho, as you asked for, but a Loureiro. Very gentle.
>I like it!
>

THanks for the suggestions. Noted.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 23:35:58 +0100, "Ricardo Ferreira"
> wrote:

>
>> What about on the vinho verde front, any alvarinho worth seeking out,
>> anything comparable to Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela in Galicia?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
>> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
>>
>
>I do not know either Terras Gauda or Pezas da Portela, however a good
>Alvarinho that worth looking for is Soalheiro (2003), from the producer
>António E. Ferreira. Quite fruity. I believe you'll enjoy it Mike.
>
>Another verde that I usually much appreciate is "Solar das Bouças". It's
>not a Alvarinho, as you asked for, but a Loureiro. Very gentle.
>I like it!
>

THanks for the suggestions. Noted.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

>>No, it's quite standard Douro: mainly tinta roriz, some touriga
>>franca (formerly known as touriga francesa), but everything from
>>70 year old vines.

> Sounds worth investigating.

It is definitely. I now got the press release on the 2000 vintage (in
German), I'll mail it to you. In fact there are more grape varieties
invovlved, it says "mainly roriz and franca".

M.

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

>>No, it's quite standard Douro: mainly tinta roriz, some touriga
>>franca (formerly known as touriga francesa), but everything from
>>70 year old vines.

> Sounds worth investigating.

It is definitely. I now got the press release on the 2000 vintage (in
German), I'll mail it to you. In fact there are more grape varieties
invovlved, it says "mainly roriz and franca".

M.

Ricardo Ferreira > wrote:
: Being Portuguese I may sound suspicious. But I believe Portugal has some of
: the greatest wines worldwide. Many of them beat the most famous French
: ones.

>Not sure about this one, but yes, Portugal *does* have some very good
wines.


: My comment is, I frequently read this news, but don't ever find any comments
: on Portuguese wines. Don't you guys know them?

>Ricardo, I thinnk I've posted here on a Barca Velha 1991 and a Luis Pato
Barraiga(sp?) 1999 within the last 2 years, both very good wines and
unique in the world of wines. I wouldn't feel slighted about your wines,
but the focus in this Olympic year 2004 is further east in Greece, where
Greek wines have become the Mediterranean wine-du-jour. Bring the Olympics
to Lisboa and Portugal will get their due<gg>.


: Compliments from sunny Portugal

>wish I could say the same, from a rain-drenched, cool, Upstate New York!






--

Ricardo Ferreira > wrote:
: Being Portuguese I may sound suspicious. But I believe Portugal has some of
: the greatest wines worldwide. Many of them beat the most famous French
: ones.

>Not sure about this one, but yes, Portugal *does* have some very good
wines.


: My comment is, I frequently read this news, but don't ever find any comments
: on Portuguese wines. Don't you guys know them?

>Ricardo, I thinnk I've posted here on a Barca Velha 1991 and a Luis Pato
Barraiga(sp?) 1999 within the last 2 years, both very good wines and
unique in the world of wines. I wouldn't feel slighted about your wines,
but the focus in this Olympic year 2004 is further east in Greece, where
Greek wines have become the Mediterranean wine-du-jour. Bring the Olympics
to Lisboa and Portugal will get their due<gg>.


: Compliments from sunny Portugal

>wish I could say the same, from a rain-drenched, cool, Upstate New York!






--

Thanks for your comments,

> >Ricardo, I thinnk I've posted here on a Barca Velha 1991 and a Luis Pato
> Barraiga(sp?) 1999

I think you mean Luis Pato - Bairrada. It is portuguese. Bairrada is the
region.


> but the focus in this Olympic year 2004 is further east in Greece, where
> Greek wines have become the Mediterranean wine-du-jour. Bring the Olympics
> to Lisboa and Portugal will get their due<gg>.
>

Well,...
We've made the European Football (soccer) Cup, past June.
That could count for something

> : Compliments from sunny Portugal
> >wish I could say the same, from a rain-drenched, cool, Upstate New York!

If it makes you feel better, today we have a few clouds in the sky...

Ricardo

www.portugalregional.pt

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:17:50 +0100, "Ricardo Ferreira"
> wrote:

>Thanks for your comments,
>
>> >Ricardo, I thinnk I've posted here on a Barca Velha 1991 and a Luis Pato
>> Barraiga(sp?) 1999
>
>I think you mean Luis Pato - Bairrada. It is portuguese. Bairrada is the
>region.

Wow! I met Luis Pato, completely by chance, two weeks ago at "A Barca"
in Aveiro. I was sitting there eating with a colleague, and heard
people talking about wine next to me. Have not tasted it yet, but
sounds very interesting, he claims he works mostly with Baga. I
promised I would go to visit him soon. His daughter instead vinifies
wines separately from him, and seems more oriented towards things like
syrah...

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail