The local newspaper had an article about "ice wines." I had never heard of
them before. Any views on these types of wine? The wines seem rather pricey,
but since they had pick each grape I guess they are rather labor intensive.

Tom

See link below.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_182462.html

"mary" > wrote in message
...
> The local newspaper had an article about "ice wines." I had never heard of
> them before. Any views on these types of wine? The wines seem rather
pricey,
> but since they had pick each grape I guess they are rather labor
intensive.
>
> Tom
The one I have tried was made in Canada, by Legends Estates. They are VERY
sweet, intense tasting. This was a "low" price one, a 375ml bottle cost
about $30 US. Lets just say that I could have gotten more value for my money
with a (less sweet) late harvest German Riesling.
It was an interesting flavor - quite different from any other wine I have
tasted. I have not tried a true eiswine - there is a difference in
techniques. The true eiswine is not picked until after the grapes have
frozen while still on the vine, one reason for the high price - the weather
is variable enough that the grapes may be underripe or overripe at the time
of the freeze. From what I have read, the icewines are made by freezing the
grapes after they are picked (although this may not be universally true),
which would seem to me to give a different flavor.
For me, it goes along with the several meads that I have tried -
interesting, but I'll stick to more "mainstream" wines most of the time.
YMMV.

Jim

They're one thing in traditional Germany (Eiswein), where I believe they
were historically a novelty item, to recover something from a bad situation
(grapes caught by frost), unusual and unpredictable. Can be uniquely and
subtly flavored, and they vary in finished sweetness.

Something else indeed around Ontario in recent decades, where there is more
Eis than Wein, and these are made deliberately as a local specialty. Still,
more encouraging than was the Ontario Pinot Noir I tried there in '89 ...
And there too credit is due, Pinot Noir is always difficult and we would
never get anywhere were people not willing to try.

You have to give the wine industry credit in general: People try it
everywhere. Tom Stevenson's "Sotheby's" Wine Encyclopedia (not to be
confused with his "Christie's" Champagne encyclopedia -- does he have the
auction firms bidding against each other?) includes entries on serious
efforts in Texas and Mexico, for example. One of my cherished clippings is
a well-done magazine photo of a group of experienced cowhands around a
campfire, horses tied up, covered wagon nearby, hoisting balloon glasses of
Chardonnay.

Max


"mary" > wrote in message
...
> The local newspaper had an article about "ice wines." I had never heard of
> them before. Any views on these types of wine? The wines seem rather
pricey,
> but since they had pick each grape I guess they are rather labor
intensive.
>
> Tom
>
> See link below.
>
> http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_182462.html
>
>

True German eiswine is from frozen bunches picked from the field, and
crushed shortly thereafter, before they can thaw. The water freezes
first, and the high sugar is concentrated in the liquid portion.

These grapes are frequently picked very late in the year. I have had
eiswines picked on Christmas day, New Year's day, and one picked on
Jan 17.

The wine can be artificially made by freezing picked grapes, then
crushing.

Not much juice, so very high price

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:27:29 -0500, "mary" >
wrote:

>The local newspaper had an article about "ice wines." I had never heard of
>them before. Any views on these types of wine? The wines seem rather pricey,
>but since they had pick each grape I guess they are rather labor intensive.
>
>Tom
>
>See link below.
>
>http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_182462.html
>

Also Canada has Icewines made in the traditional German method - expensive,
but not quite as expensive as in Germany. There is also Icewines in the
Finger Lakes in New York State (Just on the other side of the border with
the Canadian region) - though I do not think there is regulation about the
nature of the frozen grape as in Canada and Germany.

I have yet to find a bad Icewine, myself.


On 3/3/04 7:21 PM, in article ,
"gerald" > wrote:

> True German eiswine is from frozen bunches picked from the field, and
> crushed shortly thereafter, before they can thaw. The water freezes
> first, and the high sugar is concentrated in the liquid portion.
>
> These grapes are frequently picked very late in the year. I have had
> eiswines picked on Christmas day, New Year's day, and one picked on
> Jan 17.
>
> The wine can be artificially made by freezing picked grapes, then
> crushing.
>
> Not much juice, so very high price
>
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:27:29 -0500, "mary" >
> wrote:
>
>> The local newspaper had an article about "ice wines." I had never heard of
>> them before. Any views on these types of wine? The wines seem rather pricey,
>> but since they had pick each grape I guess they are rather labor intensive.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> See link below.
>>
>> http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_182462.html
>>
>

In article <xYs1c.25465$Ri6.10794@lakeread04>,
says...
>
> The one I have tried was made in Canada, by Legends Estates. They are VERY
> sweet, intense tasting. This was a "low" price one, a 375ml bottle cost
> about $30 US. Lets just say that I could have gotten more value for my money
> with a (less sweet) late harvest German Riesling.
> It was an interesting flavor - quite different from any other wine I have
> tasted. I have not tried a true eiswine - there is a difference in
> techniques. The true eiswine is not picked until after the grapes have
> frozen while still on the vine, one reason for the high price - the weather
> is variable enough that the grapes may be underripe or overripe at the time
> of the freeze. From what I have read, the icewines are made by freezing the
> grapes after they are picked (although this may not be universally true),
> which would seem to me to give a different flavor.

Who told you that? That is a load of crap.

Vintners Quality Alliance (VQA) standards are Ontario's and British
Columbia's answer to France's AOC, Italy's DOC, and Germany's
Qualitatswein mit Predicat system. All VQA Icewines are made the same way
German Eisweins are, picked and pressed only when they are frozen solid.
They can't even pick them until they have had several nights of solid
freezes:

http://www.ontariograpes.com/icewine.html

For general standards of the VQA system, including allowed varitetal,
standards, inspection and verification standards, see:

http://www.vqaontario.com/about_vqa_wines/overview.html

and

http://www.winerack.com/anatomy/vintners.htm

Dennis
Windsor, Ontario

They are expensive because it takes much more grapes to produce a bottle
(the grape are dehydrated by the cold).

I personally prefer riesling ice wine.
It's a little bit off topic but you can also give a change to ice cider

regards,

mary wrote:
> The local newspaper had an article about "ice wines." I had never heard of
> them before. Any views on these types of wine? The wines seem rather pricey,
> but since they had pick each grape I guess they are rather labor intensive.
>
> Tom
>
> See link below.
>
> http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_182462.html
>
>

On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:26:37 -0500, "422Tango" >
wrote:

>
>"mary" > wrote in message
...
>> The local newspaper had an article about "ice wines." I had never heard of
>> them before. Any views on these types of wine? The wines seem rather
>pricey,
>> but since they had pick each grape I guess they are rather labor
>intensive.
>>
>> Tom
>The one I have tried was made in Canada, by Legends Estates. They are VERY
>sweet, intense tasting. This was a "low" price one, a 375ml bottle cost
>about $30 US. Lets just say that I could have gotten more value for my money
>with a (less sweet) late harvest German Riesling.

This takes us back to a discussion we had several months ago. What
requirements have to be met (in different countries, of course) in
order to label a wine a "late harvest" wine? afaik, there is no
definition of such a type of wine in Germany; hence no labeling
requirements. Rebuttals are welcome.

>It was an interesting flavor - quite different from any other wine I have
>tasted. I have not tried a true eiswine - there is a difference in
>techniques. The true eiswine is not picked until after the grapes have
>frozen while still on the vine, one reason for the high price - the weather
>is variable enough that the grapes may be underripe or overripe at the time
>of the freeze. From what I have read, the icewines are made by freezing the
>grapes after they are picked (although this may not be universally true),
>which would seem to me to give a different flavor.

To me anyway, a "true" icewine (or eiswine) is made from grapes that
have frozen on the vine. I know that some wines are made from grapes
that are frozen after a "normal" harvest and are then labeled
"icewine" (in the US, anyway). I seem to recall some effort to make
this practice (the labeling, anyway) illegal in the US. Can anyone
help me out here?

>For me, it goes along with the several meads that I have tried -
>interesting, but I'll stick to more "mainstream" wines most of the time.
>YMMV.

As long as it's "most of the time". One should venture out from time
to time. Most of the time when I've done this I've struck out (a
baseball term that may be untranslatable) but sometimes I've come upon
a real treasure.

Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.

Of the 4 Canadien Ice wines I have tried, my favorite is the Pellar
Estate Vidal. I haven't had one in a long while, so I can't give a
better TN, but it was full of exciting flavor. I stick icewines in the
freezer for 15 minutes or more before drinking.

Inniskillin is popular. I found that their Vidal drank a bit more
elegantly than the PE. Not as exciting flavors to me though. I thought
the Trius was awful. I had one other that wasn't too exciting. It had
blue lettering.

Enjoy!

Salut/Hi GG,

le/on Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:55:06 -0500, tu disais/you said:-

>They are expensive because it takes much more grapes to produce a bottle
>(the grape are dehydrated by the cold).

Not really dehydrated, as others have said. Dehydration implies a permanernt
loss of water, with eiswein, the grapes are partially frozen and the
physical chemistry involved means that what freezes out is pure water,
leaving a morte concentrated juice, this is pressed out while the grapes are
still frozen.

It may be that you meant that, and that your use of "dehydrated" was a
slightly careless use of the word. If that's so, then I apologise.

In passing, I was at a "prestigious sweet wine" tasting last year, at which
we had a Canadian Ice wine (well reputed) I have to say that I found it
flabby and one dimensional, when compared with the German ones I tasted
later. It may be that I was unlucky.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

"Dennis Rekuta" > wrote in message
...
> In article <xYs1c.25465$Ri6.10794@lakeread04>,
> says...
> >
> > The one I have tried was made in Canada, by Legends Estates. They are
VERY
> > sweet, intense tasting. This was a "low" price one, a 375ml bottle cost
> > about $30 US. Lets just say that I could have gotten more value for my
money
> > with a (less sweet) late harvest German Riesling.
> > It was an interesting flavor - quite different from any other wine I
have
> > tasted. I have not tried a true eiswine - there is a difference in
> > techniques. The true eiswine is not picked until after the grapes have
> > frozen while still on the vine, one reason for the high price - the
weather
> > is variable enough that the grapes may be underripe or overripe at the
time
> > of the freeze. From what I have read, the icewines are made by freezing
the
> > grapes after they are picked (although this may not be universally
true),
> > which would seem to me to give a different flavor.
>
> Who told you that? That is a load of crap.
>
> Vintners Quality Alliance (VQA) standards are Ontario's and British
> Columbia's answer to France's AOC, Italy's DOC, and Germany's
> Qualitatswein mit Predicat system. All VQA Icewines are made the same way
> German Eisweins are, picked and pressed only when they are frozen solid.
> They can't even pick them until they have had several nights of solid
> freezes:
>
> http://www.ontariograpes.com/icewine.html
>
> For general standards of the VQA system, including allowed varitetal,
> standards, inspection and verification standards, see:
>
> http://www.vqaontario.com/about_vqa_wines/overview.html
>
> and
>
> http://www.winerack.com/anatomy/vintners.htm
>
> Dennis
> Windsor, Ontario
Thanks Dennis, for the correction on the Canadian icewine technique. As
another poster has commented, the frezzing after picking may well be allowed
in the US. Your posting is helpful to me - because now I know that the
icewine I tried was produced in the same manner as the German. I'll probably
enjoy it again at some time, but right now, finances don't permit frequent
tries.
Jim

"Vino" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:26:37 -0500, "422Tango" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"mary" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> The local newspaper had an article about "ice wines." I had never heard
of
> >> them before. Any views on these types of wine? The wines seem rather
> >pricey,
> >> but since they had pick each grape I guess they are rather labor
> >intensive.
> >>
> >> Tom
> >The one I have tried was made in Canada, by Legends Estates. They are
VERY
> >sweet, intense tasting. This was a "low" price one, a 375ml bottle cost
> >about $30 US. Lets just say that I could have gotten more value for my
money
> >with a (less sweet) late harvest German Riesling.
>
> This takes us back to a discussion we had several months ago. What
> requirements have to be met (in different countries, of course) in
> order to label a wine a "late harvest" wine? afaik, there is no
> definition of such a type of wine in Germany; hence no labeling
> requirements. Rebuttals are welcome.
>
> >It was an interesting flavor - quite different from any other wine I have
> >tasted. I have not tried a true eiswine - there is a difference in
> >techniques. The true eiswine is not picked until after the grapes have
> >frozen while still on the vine, one reason for the high price - the
weather
> >is variable enough that the grapes may be underripe or overripe at the
time
> >of the freeze. From what I have read, the icewines are made by freezing
the
> >grapes after they are picked (although this may not be universally true),
> >which would seem to me to give a different flavor.
>
> To me anyway, a "true" icewine (or eiswine) is made from grapes that
> have frozen on the vine. I know that some wines are made from grapes
> that are frozen after a "normal" harvest and are then labeled
> "icewine" (in the US, anyway). I seem to recall some effort to make
> this practice (the labeling, anyway) illegal in the US. Can anyone
> help me out here?
>
> >For me, it goes along with the several meads that I have tried -
> >interesting, but I'll stick to more "mainstream" wines most of the time.
> >YMMV.
>
> As long as it's "most of the time". One should venture out from time
> to time. Most of the time when I've done this I've struck out (a
> baseball term that may be untranslatable) but sometimes I've come upon
> a real treasure.
>
> Vino
Thanks, Vino - I will venture out from time to time. Starting a new career
at present, money not as plentiful as it has been at times, so my
experimentation is reduced, but not elimiated.
Jim

Would also like to give a shout-out to the Austrian eisweins.

I've tasted them side by side with an Inniskillin and found them to be
more interesting. For disclosure, i'll tell you that come June we'll
be importing quite a few of them, but the reason is exactly because we
found them to be superior. Matter of taste as always, of course. But
that we're importing them is the good news: up to now they have been
quite hard to find here in the states, and therefore quite
prohibitively expensive.

Plus, the Austrian wines are made from some different grapes from the
norm: think gruner veltliner eiswein, and samling 88 (AKA scheurebe)
eiswein.

I don't want to come off as just plugging the vintners we're bringing
over, so you should look around and see what is already available.
And then i'll be happy to give anyone 10% off or so if they want to
try ours when they get here!

In the end, it's all about enjoying the wine, right?

In article <AsG1c.27955$Ri6.11688@lakeread04>,
says...
> Thanks Dennis, for the correction on the Canadian icewine technique. As
> another poster has commented, the frezzing after picking may well be allowed
> in the US. Your posting is helpful to me - because now I know that the
> icewine I tried was produced in the same manner as the German. I'll probably
> enjoy it again at some time, but right now, finances don't permit frequent
> tries.
> Jim
>
>
Jim:

If you are posting from the US, you should try buying them in our own
Canadian dollars. Then it really hurts! ;-)

Legends Estates (www.legendsestates.com) is a boutique family run winery
on the Beamsville Bench, probably the best area for Niagara Pennisula
wines. They have about 30 acres of vines. A 200 ml bottle of their Vidal
Icewine goes for CAN $36 (at CAN $1.30 to US $1.00 that is about US $28).

Vidal Icewines from lesser rated wineries can run about CAN $20-$30 for
200 ml. A fuller sized 375 ml bottle from a better known winery or high
quality vintage can run CAN $55-$75. Accordingly, Icewines are usually a
special treat, usually only a two ounce or so serving with a classic
dessert. Restaurants would typically charge CAN $7-$10 per serving.

Dennis,
Windsor, Ontario

"Dennis Rekuta" > wrote in message
...
> Jim:
>
> If you are posting from the US, you should try buying them in our own
> Canadian dollars. Then it really hurts! ;-)
>
> Legends Estates (www.legendsestates.com) is a boutique family run winery
> on the Beamsville Bench, probably the best area for Niagara Pennisula
> wines. They have about 30 acres of vines. A 200 ml bottle of their Vidal
> Icewine goes for CAN $36 (at CAN $1.30 to US $1.00 that is about US $28).
>
> Vidal Icewines from lesser rated wineries can run about CAN $20-$30 for
> 200 ml. A fuller sized 375 ml bottle from a better known winery or high
> quality vintage can run CAN $55-$75. Accordingly, Icewines are usually a
> special treat, usually only a two ounce or so serving with a classic
> dessert. Restaurants would typically charge CAN $7-$10 per serving.
OK - Vidal Icewine is the one I tried - the 375ml cost me $29.95 US plus
Virginia's 4.5% sales tax, so it looks liike it gets shipped to Virginia,
and still sold for less than at home. (I get the same things in Virginia -
the Virginia wines typically sell for considerably more than the Austrailian
of about the same quality - it would seem that shipment _should_ add enough
to the cost, but it doesn't.
I used it by itself as dessert (wife and I got 2 small glasses each from
it), the classic dessert idea might well make a considerable difference.
I've had some Rieslings that I really liked with a meal, but didn't like at
all by themselves.
Thanks,
Jim

A "flabby and one dimensional" Canadian ice wine was almost certainly a
Vidal. If you get the opportunity to taste the Riesling or Gewurz versions
I think you would change your mind on our most excellent Canadian product.

From the heart of the Niagara ice wine industry.......
--
Regards
Chuck
So much wine; So little time!

To reply, delete NOSPAM from return address


> In passing, I was at a "prestigious sweet wine" tasting last year, at
which
> we had a Canadian Ice wine (well reputed) I have to say that I found it
> flabby and one dimensional, when compared with the German ones I tasted
> later. It may be that I was unlucky.
>
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
> http://www.souvigne.com
> mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

I'm really amazed at the differences in prices I've found for German
Icewine, some well known producers wines are in the $100+ range while
three icewines I just purchased (made by less well known producers) were
less than $20 US each. I got one each of Reisling, Gewurz, and Pinot
Noir; haven't tried them yet though.

In article >,
(kenneth mccoy) writes:

>'m really amazed at the differences in prices I've found for German
>Icewine, some well known producers wines are in the $100+ range while
>three icewines I just purchased (made by less well known producers) were
>less than $20 US each. I got one each of Reisling, Gewurz, and Pinot
>Noir; haven't tried them yet though.

Kenneth, I wish you the best, and hope you like them all, but eiswein is
expensive to make, and the lower-priced ones have, in my experience, been total
wastes of money (same for cheap BA and TBAs, though some Pfalz Huxelrebes have
been been worth their pricetags, if not contenders with the best Rieslings).
Spatburgunder eiswein isn't something I've seen, but will be interested in your
notes. Who are the makers, and from which regions?

While I certainly don't think one needs to spend lots of money for fine wine,
my general experience is the $30 Laboure-Roi GC burgs, $20 TBAs, $10 Barolos,
and $4 Napa cabs seldom provide even a glimpse of what the excitement over
that designation is about.

But I hope in this case I'm wrong!
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

"Dale Williams" in ...
>
> While I certainly don't think one needs to spend lots of money for fine
wine,
> my general experience is the $30 Laboure-Roi GC burgs, $20 TBAs, $10
Barolos,
> and $4 Napa cabs seldom provide even a glimpse of what the excitement
over
> that designation is about.


Touché! Slam dunk! -- Max

"Vino" > wrote in message
...
> ... afaik, there is no
> definition of such a type of wine in Germany; hence no labeling
> requirements. Rebuttals are welcome.
>
The German term "Spätlese" does indeed translate into "late harvest".
However, the legal definition is based on ripeness, i.e. the sugar content
of the grape juice. Thus the prime qualities by increasing ripeness are
named as follows:
Kabinett - Cabinet wine (named for the 17th century cupboards where better
wine were locked in)
Spätlese - late harvest
Auslese - selected harvest (riper bunches of grapes)
Beerenauslese - selected berry harvest (the very ripe single berries, often
individually picked)
Trockenbeerenauslese - selected dried berry harvest (normally attacked by
noble rot - desiccating the berries and concentrating the juice)
hth
Anders

Dale, what little Spatburgunder eiswein I've seen all seems to come from the
town of Assmannshausen in the lower part of the Rheingau region.

I'm looking at a half bottle as I type this and it's a 1998 (bought in Dec.
2001) labeled Assmannshauser Hollenberg. The producer is Hessische
Staatsweinguter and I bought it at the winery. I can't remember the price
but my guess is that at the time it was the equivalent of US$ 50.
Regards,
John Quinn


"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,

> (kenneth mccoy) writes:
>
> >'m really amazed at the differences in prices I've found for German
> >Icewine, some well known producers wines are in the $100+ range while
> >three icewines I just purchased (made by less well known producers) were
> >less than $20 US each. I got one each of Reisling, Gewurz, and Pinot
> >Noir; haven't tried them yet though.
>
> Kenneth, I wish you the best, and hope you like them all, but eiswein is
> expensive to make, and the lower-priced ones have, in my experience, been
total
> wastes of money (same for cheap BA and TBAs, though some Pfalz Huxelrebes
have
> been been worth their pricetags, if not contenders with the best
Rieslings).
> Spatburgunder eiswein isn't something I've seen, but will be interested in
your
> notes. Who are the makers, and from which regions?
>
> While I certainly don't think one needs to spend lots of money for fine
wine,
> my general experience is the $30 Laboure-Roi GC burgs, $20 TBAs, $10
Barolos,
> and $4 Napa cabs seldom provide even a glimpse of what the excitement
over
> that designation is about.
>
> But I hope in this case I'm wrong!
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

The producer of two of the three Icewines is Ernst Bretz, Bechtolsheim-
Rheinhessen. I recently had their Bechtolsheimer Homberg Reisling
Icewine and thought it was very good, and at $15 US it was
DoublePlusGood! The Gewurtz is by G+M Machmer, Bechtheim- Rheinhessen
labeled Bechtheimer Rosengarten. All were bought from Sams Wine in
Chicago. I don't have the money to buy expensive wines and actually
drink them so low priced wines are my quest- and the most dissapointing
wines I've had were expensive and not very good. One recent find was a
Balthasar Ress Hattenheimer Schutzenhaus Kabinet at only $13 and it was
superb!

I am not an expert on icewines ad I generally like dry full bodied red wines
or an earthy chardonnay.
I tried Peller Estates Riesling ice wine reserve and it was very smooth and
sweet but I found myself wondering how many other things I could have bought
with all that money.

Joe

"Eric Reichenbach" > wrote in message
...
> Of the 4 Canadien Ice wines I have tried, my favorite is the Pellar
> Estate Vidal. I haven't had one in a long while, so I can't give a
> better TN, but it was full of exciting flavor. I stick icewines in the
> freezer for 15 minutes or more before drinking.
>
> Inniskillin is popular. I found that their Vidal drank a bit more
> elegantly than the PE. Not as exciting flavors to me though. I thought
> the Trius was awful. I had one other that wasn't too exciting. It had
> blue lettering.
>
> Enjoy!
>

"kenneth mccoy" > wrote in message
...
> Ernst Bretzv Bechtolsheimer Homberg Reisling
> G+M Machmer Bechtheimer Rosengarten.
> Balthasar Ress Hattenheimer Schutzenhaus Kabinet at only $13 and it was
> superb!
>
They are all single vineyard wines. I don't know these however, and only
find Ress in my sources with a not too impressive score. Fairly good in an
average sense, so to speak.
Anders

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:33:45 GMT, "Anders Tørneskog"
> wrote:

>
>"Vino" > wrote in message
.. .
>> ... afaik, there is no
>> definition of such a type of wine in Germany; hence no labeling
>> requirements. Rebuttals are welcome.
>>
>The German term "Spätlese" does indeed translate into "late harvest".
>However, the legal definition is based on ripeness, i.e. the sugar content
>of the grape juice. Thus the prime qualities by increasing ripeness are
>named as follows:
>Kabinett - Cabinet wine (named for the 17th century cupboards where better
>wine were locked in)
>Spätlese - late harvest
>Auslese - selected harvest (riper bunches of grapes)
>Beerenauslese - selected berry harvest (the very ripe single berries, often
>individually picked)
>Trockenbeerenauslese - selected dried berry harvest (normally attacked by
>noble rot - desiccating the berries and concentrating the juice)
>hth
>Anders
>
If I had given a little more thought to the matter I would have not
made the comment I made for the reason you give. As you point out
however, the term "late harvest" suggests something other than what
the German definition requires. However, apart from Germany, what does
the term mean legally? I seem to recall a posting from several months
back that said that the only legal requirement that must be met in the
US in order to use the term "late harvest" is that the sugar content
of the grapes at harvest must be stated on the label. No requirement
as to what minimum level that must be. I don't know this to be a fact
but I've never seen anything to refute it.

Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.

Vino > wrote in message
<snip>
> If I had given a little more thought to the matter I would have not
> made the comment I made for the reason you give. As you point out
> however, the term "late harvest" suggests something other than what
> the German definition requires. However, apart from Germany, what does
> the term mean legally? I seem to recall a posting from several months
> back that said that the only legal requirement that must be met in the
> US in order to use the term "late harvest" is that the sugar content
> of the grapes at harvest must be stated on the label. No requirement
> as to what minimum level that must be. I don't know this to be a fact
> but I've never seen anything to refute it.
>
> Vino

I think Late Harvest is much like 'Old Vines', a very vague term,
that's more marketing than winemaking terminology.
How old does a vine have to be before you can call it old? AFAIK there
is no legal requirement in the new world.
In Ontario, I'm not aware of any legal aspect to late harvest; the
consumer has an expectation of a sweet dessert wine (usually in 375mL)
Beyond that, it may be very sweet, or not so sweet (3-4), noble rot or
not.

On 8 Mar 2004 10:29:39 -0800, (Peter Muto)
wrote:

>I think Late Harvest is much like 'Old Vines', a very vague term,
>that's more marketing than winemaking terminology.
>How old does a vine have to be before you can call it old? AFAIK there
>is no legal requirement in the new world.
>In Ontario, I'm not aware of any legal aspect to late harvest; the
>consumer has an expectation of a sweet dessert wine (usually in 375mL)
>Beyond that, it may be very sweet, or not so sweet (3-4), noble rot or
>not.

Some wineries in the US market "late harvest" wines that are made from
grapes that have been left on the vine beyond "normal" harvest. If
conditions are right, the grapes will be infected with "noble rot",
aka botrytis. The shriveled grapes are then pressed and wine is made
from the result. This is the way that Sauternes is made, although no
"late havest" claim is made on the label. Wines like these, to me
anyway, are truly deserving of the designation "late harvest".
Anything else I look upon with skepticism, although legalities are not
always on my side.

Vino
To reply, add "x" between
letters and numbers of
e-mail address.

mary wrote:
> The local newspaper had an article about "ice wines." I
> had never heard of them before. Any views on these types
> of wine? The wines seem rather pricey, but since they
> had pick each grape I guess they are rather labor
> intensive.

I'll just jump in to ask a question:
are there italian ice-wines? I remember I have
seen a video from the AIS (Italian Sommeliers
Association) about veneto, and there where
images of ice-clad grapes hanging from the
plants, in a snowy scenario, and that makes
Ice-Wines for me!
But I can not find italian wines listed as IW,
just "vendemmia tardiva" (late harvest), as
Michael Pronay correctly stated somewhere in
this thread.
Well, if we think that "vendemmia tardiva" can
be also a late october - mid november harvest,
I think it should be specified when the harvest
is so late to get the grapes freezed in ice and
when it is simply a late harvest in october-november
(way before any snow).
Am I the only thinking this?

Vilco

"Vilco [out]" > wrote:

> are there italian ice-wines?

Not that I ever have heard of one. Remember: Snow on the grapes in
Italy - as rare as it might occur - does not normally mean
temperatures as low as -7 to -10 °C (19 to 14 °F) required for ice
wine. These temperature lows are only reached in the morning of
clear frosty nights in wine-growing Europe. Otoh, artificially
freezing grapes (as done in California) is illegal in Europe.

In other words: No, I guess there never has been an ice-wine in
Italy.

M.