Interested in knowing what kind of drinking glass people used,

I use the following,

11oz “Sensus” DIN wine tasting glass from Schott Zwiesel for daily drinking
of both red and white.

7.5oz ISO tasting glass for fortified wine.

6.25oz "L'Œnologue™ Dégustation Cognac" glass from Cristal d'Arques for
Brandy and Whisky.

I was thinking that my regular wine glass is too small for the aroma to open
up. Is bigger glass better for wine?

"Eric lee" > wrote in message
...
> Interested in knowing what kind of drinking glass people used,
>
> I use the following,
>
> 11oz "Sensus" DIN wine tasting glass from Schott Zwiesel for daily
drinking
> of both red and white.
>
> 7.5oz ISO tasting glass for fortified wine.
>
> 6.25oz "L'OnologueT Dégustation Cognac" glass from Cristal d'Arques for
> Brandy and Whisky.
>
> I was thinking that my regular wine glass is too small for the aroma to
open
> up. Is bigger glass better for wine?

There's a bit of controversy on this topic, but personally I like the Riedel
"Vinum Extreme" 444/0 for almost everything. It's very large, so you can
really get a snootful of aroma from it. Riedel pitches it as a glass for
Cabernet or Merlot, but Pinot Noir, Zin, Chardonnay and whatever are all
nice in it.

Some people claim that the shape of the glass makes a difference in the
flavor of the wine, and you really need a different shape of glass to
present each type of wine to best effect. That's the controversial part.
IMO that's just a marketing gimmick to get wine aficionados to buy more
glasses.

For my most critical Chardonnay tastings I use a glass made by Impitoyable
for white Burgundy. Unfortunately, this glass is no longer imported to the
USA, so I have to be _extremely_ careful with it. It's large, with a tall
globe and a rather small opening. It concentrates aromas very well, and is
aptly named if I understand the meaning correctly (merciless?).

Tom S

I have IKEA wine glasses that I paid something like $5 for a set of 6. I
know, I know, I hate to brag, but you asked!

Erik


"Tom S" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Eric lee" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Interested in knowing what kind of drinking glass people used,
> >
> > I use the following,
> >
> > 11oz "Sensus" DIN wine tasting glass from Schott Zwiesel for daily
> drinking
> > of both red and white.
> >
> > 7.5oz ISO tasting glass for fortified wine.
> >
> > 6.25oz "L'OnologueT Dégustation Cognac" glass from Cristal d'Arques for
> > Brandy and Whisky.
> >
> > I was thinking that my regular wine glass is too small for the aroma to
> open
> > up. Is bigger glass better for wine?
>
> There's a bit of controversy on this topic, but personally I like the
Riedel
> "Vinum Extreme" 444/0 for almost everything. It's very large, so you can
> really get a snootful of aroma from it. Riedel pitches it as a glass for
> Cabernet or Merlot, but Pinot Noir, Zin, Chardonnay and whatever are all
> nice in it.
>
> Some people claim that the shape of the glass makes a difference in the
> flavor of the wine, and you really need a different shape of glass to
> present each type of wine to best effect. That's the controversial part.
> IMO that's just a marketing gimmick to get wine aficionados to buy more
> glasses.
>
> For my most critical Chardonnay tastings I use a glass made by Impitoyable
> for white Burgundy. Unfortunately, this glass is no longer imported to
the
> USA, so I have to be _extremely_ careful with it. It's large, with a tall
> globe and a rather small opening. It concentrates aromas very well, and
is
> aptly named if I understand the meaning correctly (merciless?).
>
> Tom S
>
>

Tom S wrote:

> There's a bit of controversy on this topic, but personally I like the Riedel
> "Vinum Extreme" 444/0 for almost everything. It's very large, so you can
> really get a snootful of aroma from it. Riedel pitches it as a glass for
> Cabernet or Merlot, but Pinot Noir, Zin, Chardonnay and whatever are all
> nice in it.
>
> Some people claim that the shape of the glass makes a difference in the
> flavor of the wine, and you really need a different shape of glass to
> present each type of wine to best effect. That's the controversial part.
> IMO that's just a marketing gimmick to get wine aficionados to buy more
> glasses.

Before having had some direct experience, I'd have believed as you. _Many_
years ago I was given Riedel Vinum Bordeaux and Zinfandel/Chianti glasses. I
thought it was all pretty silly except for the fact that, even with my limited
palate, there was absolutely no question that there were differences, both in
the nose _and_ taste. [It was this taste difference that _really_ surprised
me.] But the "best" glass depended on the wine. Some Bordeaux were "better" in
the Zin/Chianti glasses, for example, and sometimes we disagreed on which was
"better" for the wine. [We _did_ have our own tastes. :-) ] And, as it turned
out, we tended to prefer Sauternes in my _old_ glasses.

On the other hand, we could hardly tell the difference (visually) between the
Bordeaux and the Brunello glasses, for example, unless they were sitting side by
side, and we sure couldn't tell any differences with the wines. They seemed to
work equally well. [Which would make some sense, since they looked _so_ much
alike.]

So to some extent, I'd have to defend the notion that different shaped wine
glasses will work better for different wines, _including_ taste. I'd just
probably not go to _quite_ the extremes that Riedel does. Let's face it. If
the shape of the glass didn't really make much difference, we could be happy
drinking fine wine out of water glasses. :-)

Regards,

- Roy

=*=*=
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark
Twain
The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. - Oscar Wilde

Salut/Hi Eric lee,

le/on Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:39:07 +0800, tu disais/you said:-

>Interested in knowing what kind of drinking glass people used,

For all wine tasting, I use the INAO tasting glass, which is about the shape
and size of a sherry copita.

I use the same glass for pre-prandials of normal quality - if wine based.
For ordinary champagnes I use some old champagne flutes I've had since we
were married.

For lesser whites I use the Berry Bros white wine glasses, which I also use
for better champagnes. For big whites and most reds I use the Berry Bros red
wine glasses.

I've also got 2 Vinum (or is it the Sommelier? it's the VERY big ones
holding about a litre) Riedels bought from the factory as seconds in both
Bordeaux (whatever they call it) and Burgundy (again, whetever they call it)
shapes. I've also got 4 of their Sauternes glasses in the same range.

I use these only for top wines, as they are too good at showing up faults.
As far as I'm concerned, when drinking for pleasure I want a glass that
_flatters_ a wine, not necessarily one to analyse.

I'll answer the how and why of Riedel later in this thread.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

Salut/Hi Roy,

le/on Wed, 14 Jan 2004 07:46:12 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>Tom S wrote:

>> Some people claim that the shape of the glass makes a difference in the
>> flavor of the wine, and you really need a different shape of glass to
>> present each type of wine to best effect. That's the controversial part.
>> IMO that's just a marketing gimmick to get wine aficionados to buy more
>> glasses.
>
>Before having had some direct experience, I'd have believed as you.

Absolutely agree. I was one who poured scorn on the whole idea. Obviously,
within reason. We all know that there's world of difference between a good
wine glass and a cheap water tumbler, and that's at least in part down to
the difference in shape!

>years ago I was given Riedel Vinum Bordeaux and Zinfandel/Chianti glasses. I
>thought it was all pretty silly except for the fact that, even with my limited
>palate, there was absolutely no question that there were differences, both in
>the nose _and_ taste.

As I replied above, I have the enormous Riedels in their Bordeaux and
Burgundy shapes - in seconds - bought at their factory after carrying out a
comparative tasting there. I think the story is worth telling, because it
was for me a "Road to Damascus" experience. I had always poured scorn on the
twin claims made for the Riedel glasses that their internal surface
structure and the shape mattered for wine tasting.

In 2000, on my way back from Tokaj in Hungary, we stopped off at an Hotel
where I had stayed over 35 years previously to go skiing. The owner there
(who I'd dandled on my knee as a baby when I was last there) suggested we go
to the Riedel factory down the road, telling us that they often sold seconds
in their "back room". So as this was the _perfect_ opportunity to debunk
their claims, I bought our supper bottle of nice Austrian Cabernet Sauvignon
(as being the closest I could afford to a Cru Classé Bordeaux) early and
took it with us to see if we could persuade the staff to let us do a tasting
there.

On arrival, we made our request, and almost without blinking an eyelid, the
very pleasant receptionist salesperson said that we could, but that they
would have to assemble and wash the glasses. I asked for a vertical range of
the Bordeaux shape (from smallest to largest) as well as the big
Burgundies.That would let us see if these HUGE handblown glasses were
_really_ better than more sensibly sized ones, or whether it was simply
hype. After visiting the factory, I can tell you (I once did laboratory
glassblowing) that the glass blowing techniques did NOTHING out of the
ordinary to affect the surface structure inside the glasses. So in that
respect, the "surface structure" claims are entirely imaginary. The material
"glass" behaves like a (very thick) liquid, and so in principle, is
perfectly smooth unless roughened up in some way and I saw no evidence of
this. So I was quite ready to be very cynical over the shapes, when we came
out to do the tasting.

Well, we first of all did the vertical tasting, about 4 different sized
glasses, but all very much the same tulip shape, more or less the same shape
as the Berry Bros ones I drink from regularly. The one thing that was
immediately clear was that the wine tasted really very similar throughout
the range, although the two larger sizes showed it off better, with the top
one being extremely analytical, you could detect nuances and faults that the
lesser glasses didn't show up.

So then we poured some wine into the Burgundy glasses. First sniff showed
that despite all my expectations, the wine smelt significantly different.
Said nothing, passed to Jacquie, who's got little sense of smell, she says.
Her comment "Goodness me, that quite different." So that was one thing. In
which did the wine _show_ better. Hard to say, perhaps a better balance on
the nose in the Bordeaux. Then came the moment of tasting. Exactly the same
experience. The wine tasted different, and shwed better in the glass
designed for it (more or less). Again, Jacquie concurred.


>[It was this taste difference that _really_ surprised me.] But the "best" glass depended on the wine. Some Bordeaux were "better" in the Zin/Chianti glasses, for example, and sometimes we disagreed on which was
>"better" for the wine. [We _did_ have our own tastes. :-) ]

Completely agree in so far as it went (I've not tried Zins in either).

> And, as it turned out, we tended to prefer Sauternes in my _old_ glasses.

Our Sauternes glasses are a very odd shape. I am not sure which I prefer for
Sauternes, as I drink almost exclusively monbazillac when it comes to sweet
wines of the region.

>the shape of the glass didn't really make much difference, we could be happy
>drinking fine wine out of water glasses. :-)

I hope that smile is partly ironic, as I can't agree at all. I'd almost
prefer NOT to drink good wine than to drink it out of tumblers.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

I've heard enough testimonials from people I respect, and done enough informal
experimentation on my own, to believe the arguments re shape of glass. That
being said, I can't afford (or have room in my house!) for separate glasses for
every shape.

So what we use:
There's some inexpensive generic (non-crystal) wine glasses that are handy for
having a glass of whatever's opened while cooking.
We have some crystal white glasses whose maker I forget that I use for most
whites.
We have Spiegelau Bdx stems (mixed vino Grande and Authentis) that I use for
Bdx and Bdx varietals and Syrahs
We have Spiegelau Burg stems (vino Grande and Authentis) that I use for Pinot
Noir, Nebbiolo, and big whites (white Burgundies, etc.)
Riedel Vintage Champagne flutes (though I only have 6 of these, use some other
flutes for parties)

There are backups of the Speigelaus in basement for big parties. And there are
some other no-name crystal balloons I use for more backup (if there's a real
wine dinner where I'm giving a lot of people multiple wine glasses).


Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

My C$.02;

14oz. relatively inexpensive crystal Bordeaux glasses for Bordeaux and all
white wines.
24oz. of the same crystal balloon types for lighter reds.... PN, Gamay and
sometimes even Rose.
--
Regards
Chuck
So much wine; So little time!

To reply, delete NOSPAM from return address


"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> Salut/Hi Eric lee,
>
> le/on Tue, 13 Jan 2004 23:39:07 +0800, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >Interested in knowing what kind of drinking glass people used,
>
> For all wine tasting, I use the INAO tasting glass, which is about the
shape
> and size of a sherry copita.
>
> I use the same glass for pre-prandials of normal quality - if wine based.
> For ordinary champagnes I use some old champagne flutes I've had since we
> were married.
>
> For lesser whites I use the Berry Bros white wine glasses, which I also
use
> for better champagnes. For big whites and most reds I use the Berry Bros
red
> wine glasses.
>
> I've also got 2 Vinum (or is it the Sommelier? it's the VERY big ones
> holding about a litre) Riedels bought from the factory as seconds in both
> Bordeaux (whatever they call it) and Burgundy (again, whetever they call
it)
> shapes. I've also got 4 of their Sauternes glasses in the same range.
>
> I use these only for top wines, as they are too good at showing up faults.
> As far as I'm concerned, when drinking for pleasure I want a glass that
> _flatters_ a wine, not necessarily one to analyse.
>
> I'll answer the how and why of Riedel later in this thread.
>
> --
> All the Best
> Ian Hoare
>
> Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
> Sometimes oi just sits.

We use INAO (ISO) tasting glasses for everyday drinking. For special
wines, we have Riedel Vinum Bordeaux and Zinfandel glasses and Spiegelau
Authentis Burgundy glasses.

Mark Lipton

Roy wrote:

> Tom S wrote:
>
> > There's a bit of controversy on this topic, but personally I like the Riedel
> > "Vinum Extreme" 444/0 for almost everything. It's very large, so you can
> > really get a snootful of aroma from it. Riedel pitches it as a glass for
> > Cabernet or Merlot, but Pinot Noir, Zin, Chardonnay and whatever are all
> > nice in it.
> >
> > Some people claim that the shape of the glass makes a difference in the
> > flavor of the wine, and you really need a different shape of glass to
> > present each type of wine to best effect. That's the controversial part.
> > IMO that's just a marketing gimmick to get wine aficionados to buy more
> > glasses.
>
> Before having had some direct experience, I'd have believed as you. _Many_
> years ago I was given Riedel Vinum Bordeaux and Zinfandel/Chianti glasses. I
> thought it was all pretty silly except for the fact that, even with my limited
> palate, there was absolutely no question that there were differences, both in
> the nose _and_ taste. [It was this taste difference that _really_ surprised
> me.] But the "best" glass depended on the wine. Some Bordeaux were "better" in
> the Zin/Chianti glasses, for example, and sometimes we disagreed on which was
> "better" for the wine. [We _did_ have our own tastes. :-) ] And, as it turned
> out, we tended to prefer Sauternes in my _old_ glasses.
>
> On the other hand, we could hardly tell the difference (visually) between the
> Bordeaux and the Brunello glasses, for example, unless they were sitting side by
> side, and we sure couldn't tell any differences with the wines. They seemed to
> work equally well. [Which would make some sense, since they looked _so_ much
> alike.]

Just had an experience this last weekend that shocked my socks off. Particularly in
regards my statement above about the Brunello and Bordeaux glasses. I mentioned
that unless you have them side-by-side, it's 'bout impossible to tell them apart.
This past weekend I opened a bottle of '96 Liparita Cab with a friend. I remarked
that I found the nose a bit "green" and "weedy". They thought it was "just fine".
I assumed they just liked that sort of thing. After about an hour or so, I found
the nose getting definitely unpleasant and they found it still "lovely", so I
reached over to try their glass. The nose _was_ "OK". Then I noticed that their
glass was fractionally shorter and marginally "rounder" than mine. I'd gotten my
glasses mixed up and mixed a Brunello glass in amongst my Bordeaux glasses!

So, while I can honestly say I've never noticed a difference in how a _Brunello_
smells/tastes in the Brunello vs. the Bordeaux glasses, I can no longer say there is
no difference, period. There was no doubt that there was a difference in the nose.
It was unmistakeable. (We further tested this by pouring my glass into a Brunello
glass. Green, weedy character in the Bordeaux glass went away in the Brunello
glass.) [I do not report on any difference in taste here, because by the time I got
around to tasting, I'd already discovered the difference in glasses and could no
longer be considered an unbiased reporter.]

Anyway, just thought I'd share what to me was a remarkable experience. And, after a
fashion, calls into question the "perfectness" of any given glass. Seems that there
may be a "best" glass to show a wine, but it might well not be the one "designed"
for that wine. Furthermore, even with (minor) differences in bowl shapes between
Riedel, Spiegelau, or Cost Plus, who's to say that one is "better"?

Enjoy the ride.

Regards,

- Roy

=*=*=
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain

The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. - Oscar Wilde