Anybody know anything about Ice Cider Wines ?

IT seems this made from Apples ?

Jacques
____________________________________

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:01:00 GMT, telbert joaquino
> wrote:

>Anybody know anything about Ice Cider Wines ?
>
>IT seems this made from Apples ?

Cidre de Glace. Made in Quebec, by a process analogous to Eiswein.

Interesting, even intriguing, but does not come close to the
complexity of an ice wine.

Mike

In the early history of the US, hard (alcohol containing, fermented
apple juice) cider sometimes was allowed to freeze in extremely cold
weather in the NE part of the country. The ice was separated from the
liquid. This removed much water from the cider and resulted in a drink
much higher in alcohol as well as extract. This required quite low
temperatures, because both alcohol and any residual sugar greatly lower
the freezing point of the liquid.

In article >,
Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:01:00 GMT, telbert joaquino
> > wrote:
>
> >Anybody know anything about Ice Cider Wines ?
> >
> >IT seems this made from Apples ?
>
> Cidre de Glace. Made in Quebec, by a process analogous to Eiswein.
>
> Interesting, even intriguing, but does not come close to the
> complexity of an ice wine.
>
> Mike

Oh, please. Like you can have any of your tastebuds functional after
the extreme sugar hit of an icewine. Those things run at a brix level
of around 36-46. Sugar cane juice averages less than 20 brix.
You can go into sugar shock just sniffing the stuff.


Not a fan of eiswein...

El Capitan

El Capitan says,

>
>Oh, please. Like you can have any of your tastebuds functional after
>the extreme sugar hit of an icewine. Those things run at a brix level
>of around 36-46. Sugar cane juice averages less than 20 brix.
>You can go into sugar shock just sniffing the stuff.

I think that's why icewein, and other very sweet, late-harvest wines, and 6
puttonyos Tokaji, are called dessert wines, and served up in small quantities.
They are an appetite-suppressing, palate demolishing, after-dinner ritual.

To each his/her own tastes, but I find that a truly great dessert wine can be
almost a religious experience. The aromas and flavors, depending on the wine,
can range from honey to apricots to (in the case of riesling) apple blossoms.
The rich textures can also be very exciting.

When one considers how hard these wines are to make, and their scarcity, it
adds to the mystery.

Also, many of these wines are cellared for years before consuming them. I
personally have lost interest in cellaring dry table wines, prefering to drink
them young, but a fine old Sauternes can be an amazing experience.

Cheers,
---Bob

Salut/Hi El Capitan,

le/on Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:49:25 -0500, tu disais/you said:-

>> Cidre de Glace. Made in Quebec, by a process analogous to Eiswein.
>>
>> Interesting, even intriguing, but does not come close to the
>> complexity of an ice wine.
>>
>> Mike
>
>Oh, please. Like you can have any of your tastebuds functional after
>the extreme sugar hit of an icewine.

From what you say here, El, you've never had a top class Eiswein. At a
recent exhibition of world class sweet wines (last summer - thanks Michael
P) Iniskillin were showing their ice wines, next door to Ch Yquem btw. How
to put this......? Let's say that the balance left something to be desired,
when compared even to other eisweins tasted during the week.

> Those things run at a brix level of around 36-46.

So what? If the fruit and acidity are in harmony with the sugar the wine
never tastes cloying.

> Sugar cane juice averages less than 20 brix.

Again, so what? Firstly sugar cane juice isn't particularly sweet, and it
is totally (ahem) without any acidity. You might as well criticise beef
because you don't like lentils. Both contain lots of protein!

>Not a fan of eiswein...

I have to admit that although I feel you've been unjust on eiswein, I don't
regard it as the summum of achievement in sweet wines. In fact I'm at
something of a loss to explain to myself why they seem to be a major topic
of conversation so often. I guess it must be some kind of fascination with
price. They're expensive, sure - mainly because they're extremely rare.
Personally, I don't think their price is concommitant with their quality,
which is no better (IMO) in terms of balance, depth and length of flavour
than an average trockenbeerenauslese. A top trock, a top Tokaji Aszu beat
them into a cocked hat for balance and above all for subtlety, while a top
Sauternes or Monbazillac has the edge for refinement.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

Salut/Hi RobertsonChai,

le/on 19 Oct 2003 02:06:26 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>>Oh, please. Like you can have any of your tastebuds functional after
>>the extreme sugar hit of an icewine.

I've dealt with this elsewhere.

>I think that's why icewein, and other very sweet, late-harvest wines, and 6
>puttonyos Tokaji, are called dessert wines, and served up in small quantities.

To some extent I agree with you. You're abolutely right that these wines,
being SO concentrated, don't need to be drunk in large quantities. As to
whether they're dessert wines... I can only say that having had a meal of
10 courses, where every course was served with a highly concentratred
botrytised wine, they are more versatile than that. However, I will freely
admit that the meal was more of a tour de force than something I'd want to
experience every day. AND that after about 6 courses, many of us had had
our appetites well and truly suppressed!

>They are an appetite-suppressing, palate demolishing, after-dinner ritual.

I can't agree with the "palate demolishing", though I have to agree that I
can't taste anything LIKE as many of them as I can dry wines.

>To each his/her own tastes, but I find that a truly great dessert wine can be
>almost a religious experience.

I'd not have thought of that analogy, but I would most certainly agree that
(for me) the pleasure to be derived from a top sweet wine is without equal
in the domaine of food and wine.

Thanks for your kind remarks elsewhere. I've always been around, perhaps
you've not gone back far enough the times when you've read afw. My B&B
isn't really in the Périgord, which is about 40 miles to the west of us,
but it is near the river Dordogne.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

In article >,
Ian Hoare > wrote:

> Salut/Hi El Capitan,
>
> le/on Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:49:25 -0500, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >> Cidre de Glace. Made in Quebec, by a process analogous to Eiswein.
> >>
> >> Interesting, even intriguing, but does not come close to the
> >> complexity of an ice wine.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >
> >Oh, please. Like you can have any of your tastebuds functional after
> >the extreme sugar hit of an icewine.
>
> From what you say here, El, you've never had a top class Eiswein. At a
> recent exhibition of world class sweet wines (last summer - thanks Michael
> P) Iniskillin were showing their ice wines, next door to Ch Yquem btw. How
> to put this......? Let's say that the balance left something to be desired,
> when compared even to other eisweins tasted during the week. \

I had the pleasure of a wine tour of the Niagara region last year.
Visited Inniskillin, Marynissen Estates, and others. Sampled the ice
wines at several, and came to the inescapable conclusion that I truly
don't like the stuff. I've tried a couple of dessert wines from Randall
Graham's Bonny Doon stables, and a Tokaji here and there. Try as hard
as I might, I've got an upper limit on sweet liquids I can enjoy, and
ice wine, anything botrytized, and most dessert liqueurs are way above
the limit. I don't even care for champagne doux. The Brut-er the
Better.

I was being mostly tongue in cheek about all your tastebuds shutting
down, but you knew that already...


> > Those things run at a brix level of around 36-46.
>
> So what? If the fruit and acidity are in harmony with the sugar the wine
> never tastes cloying.

Ah, the ol' lemonade argument. You've got a point, but I would have to
make my lemonade with supersaturated sugar solution instead just tossing
in a half-cup to reach the same sweetness levels in dessert & ice wines.

>
> > Sugar cane juice averages less than 20 brix.
>
> Again, so what? Firstly sugar cane juice isn't particularly sweet, and it
> is totally (ahem) without any acidity. You might as well criticise beef
> because you don't like lentils. Both contain lots of protein!

Just like I can compare fruitcake and fudge as suitable holiday treats.
Doesn't change the fact that to my taste, fudge is great, the other
totally nasty. De gustibus non est disputandum and all that.


EC

"El Capitan" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> Ian Hoare > wrote:
> .... I've tried a couple of dessert wines from Randall
> Graham's Bonny Doon stables, and a Tokaji here and there.
Bonny Doon...? And what Tokaji?
I understand well if you stick to the brut(e)s - but I'd believe that there
exist quite some great and expnsive sweet wines that just might change your
mindset.
:-) Anders

In article >,
"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

> "El Capitan" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > Ian Hoare > wrote:
> > .... I've tried a couple of dessert wines from Randall
> > Graham's Bonny Doon stables, and a Tokaji here and there.

> Bonny Doon...? And what Tokaji?

The Bonny Doon wineries offer offbeat varietals, and also make a
Framboise and Muscat dessert wine/aperitif. They might cross the line
into liqueur territory at 19% alc.

I can't say exactly who bottled the Tokaji. It was a Tokaji Aszú served
at a Hungarian restaurant in London, Ontario, and another Aszú served
by a family friend after he served us gulyás & chicken paprikash.


> I understand well if you stick to the brut(e)s - but I'd believe that there
> exist quite some great and expnsive sweet wines that just might change your
> mindset.
> :-) Anders
>

Oh, god, I feel like I'm being chased around the kitchen by an insane
old lady bearing a gelatinous chunk of lutefisk on a fork saying over &
over "Just try this one! Uff da! You'll like it! I make great
lutefisk!", completely ignoring the fact that the dish itself is what I
find objectionable, not the preparation method.

No doubt there are eiswines, and Tokaji available that will send the
most jaded oenophile into raptures of ecstacy. That oenophile will not
be me.

I'm not a stubborn child turning up his nose at a plate of spinach. I've
sampled what I feel to be a representative selection of sweet wines, and
in each case, I am of the opinion that something that sweet is utterly
repellent. Similarly, calves brains in beurre noir may send some
foodies into swoons of delight, but like the man said, "sewer rat may
taste like pumpkin pie, but I'll never know 'cause I'm not gonna eat the
filthy motherf*&%$#er." Some things are just not for everyone.

I came, I drank, I disliked. (Veni, Bibi, Fastidii?)
Sorry to disappoint.

El Capitan

The human response to taste can vary greatly from person to person. The
most extreme example I have seen was a chemical engineer where I worked
many years ago. He did not like anything that was sweet. He would eat
lemons. His children called him "old sour tooth". He refused sweet wine,
cookies, cakes, and everything else that was sweet. If I had offered him
59 Yquem to taste, he probably would have remarked: You actually paid
money for that swill?. On the other hand, I had a younger brother who
could not get enough sweet food at about four years old. He would drink
chocolate syrup and other very sweet liquids, and my mother had to hide
these from him.