My wife and I had dinner yesterday evening and we could not make
either of two wines work with the dish above.

Here's the story:

We first had three small vegetarian dishes: sautéed spinach (olive
oil, browned/discarded garlic cloves and chili pepper), kidney beans
in a sofritto of onion, carrot and celery (olive oil, white wine and
fresh bay leaves) and some leftover couscous with vegetables. These
all worked perfectly well with the very inexpensive (but not bad)
Primitivo described below.

Then we wanted to move onto the Terrine (details below). We both
noticed an unpleasant aftertaste on drinking the Primitivo with the
Terrine. I thought it might be the tannins in the Primitivo, and,
using the Sauternes-goes-well-with-foie-gras analogy, I popped open
the Equinoxe white described below. (This was the first time we had
tried the wine. It was very pleasant, giving a mouthful of subtle
pear.) While not nearly as pronounced as with the red, the Equinoxe
also gave an unpleasant aftertaste.

What's going on here? Is the egg in the Terrine the difficult match?
Was the aftertaste caused by the same food component in each case? Or
did one component cause the red problem and another cause the white
problem? Were acid levels too low in these wines for this food match?
That would seem unlikely. Would an acid-sweet wine (e.g., Sauternes)
be the only possible match?

While this was not my favorite terrine, it certainly was not
"off" (well within expiry, taste was fine).

I look forward to any discussion here to really learn something about
matching this difficult food.

TB
London

*****the wines*****

The red: Primitivo di Puglia San Marzano 2007

The white: Equinoxe, Domaine de l'Arjolle, 2005 (blend of sauvignon
blanc, viognier and muscat. Full flavored with just a touch of oak.
Languedoc and Roussillon. Dry. Alcohol Level 13.5%, 6.75 GBP)

*****the terrine*****

Terrine au Bleu d'Auvergne: pork meat, poultry liver, Bleu d'Auvergne
(i.e., bleu cheese), eggs, milk, pepper, ascorbic acid, sodium nitrite
(commercial product (i.e., not freshly made) in a glass jar, room
temperature storage/consumption)

On Feb 6, 5:24�am, Tom > wrote:
> My wife and I had dinner yesterday evening and we could not make
> either of two wines work with the dish above.
>
> Here's the story:
>
> We first had three small vegetarian dishes: saut�ed spinach (olive
> oil, browned/discarded garlic cloves and chili pepper), kidney beans
> in a sofritto of onion, carrot and celery (olive oil, white wine and
> fresh bay leaves) and some leftover couscous with vegetables. These
> all worked perfectly well with the very inexpensive (but not bad)
> Primitivo described below.
>
> Then we wanted to move onto the Terrine (details below). We both
> noticed an unpleasant aftertaste on drinking the Primitivo with the
> Terrine. I thought it might be the tannins in the Primitivo, and,
> using the Sauternes-goes-well-with-foie-gras analogy, I popped open
> the Equinoxe white described below. (This was the first time we had
> tried the wine. It was very pleasant, giving a mouthful of subtle
> pear.) While not nearly as pronounced as with the red, the Equinoxe
> also gave an unpleasant aftertaste.
>
> What's going on here? Is the egg in the Terrine the difficult match?
> Was the aftertaste caused by the same food component in each case? Or
> did one component cause the red problem and another cause the white
> problem? Were acid levels too low in these wines for this food match?
> That would seem unlikely. Would an acid-sweet wine (e.g., Sauternes)
> be the only possible match?
>
> While this was not my favorite terrine, it certainly was not
> "off" (well within expiry, taste was fine).
>
> I look forward to any discussion here to really learn something about
> matching this difficult food.
>
> TB
> London
>
> *****the wines*****
>
> The red: Primitivo di Puglia San Marzano 2007
>
> The white: Equinoxe, Domaine de l'Arjolle, 2005 (blend of sauvignon
> blanc, viognier and muscat. Full flavored with just a touch of oak.
> Languedoc and Roussillon. Dry. Alcohol Level 13.5%, 6.75 GBP)
>
> *****the terrine*****
>
> Terrine au Bleu d'Auvergne: pork meat, poultry liver, Bleu d'Auvergne
> (i.e., bleu cheese), eggs, milk, pepper, ascorbic acid, sodium nitrite
> (commercial product (i.e., not freshly made) in a glass jar, room
> temperature storage/consumption)

Thanks for the notes,. As to the match, I'd agree that's a tough one.
The blue cheese is probably more to blame that eggs. I mostly go with
sweeter wines with blue cheese, usually clashes with reds, But on
other hand sweet wines aren't my first thought for terrine. I guess
I'd try to steer for middle ground, with a Spatlese Riesling or demi-
sec Loire Chenin blanc, from vintages with good acidity. Don't know it
would be magic, but doubt it would clash,

Tom wrote:
[]
> Terrine au Bleu d'Auvergne: pork meat, poultry liver, Bleu d'Auvergne
> (i.e., bleu cheese), eggs, milk, pepper, ascorbic acid, sodium nitrite
> (commercial product (i.e., not freshly made) in a glass jar, room
> temperature storage/consumption)

Chenin indeed, demi-or-less-sec. A Jasnieres would do well, I think,
or maybe a Montlouis. I'd stay away from the really highly pedigreed,
I think you could find a good but not extraordinary match.

Bleu d'Auvergne ranges from the insipid to the wonderful, usually
very creamy cows milk cheese.

-E

> Spatlese Riesling or demi-
> sec Loire Chenin blanc, from vintages with good acidity

> Chenin indeed, demi-or-less-sec. *A Jasnieres would do well, I think,
> or maybe a Montlouis.

Thanks for the tips! Off to see what I can find and then to see how it
works.

Hi Tom,


On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 02:24:15 -0800 (PST), Tom
> wrote:

>Terrine au Bleu d'Auvergne: pork meat, poultry liver, Bleu d'Auvergne
>(i.e., bleu cheese), eggs, milk, pepper, ascorbic acid, sodium nitrite
>(commercial product (i.e., not freshly made) in a glass jar, room
>temperature storage/consumption)

I have never heard of making a terrine with pork, chicken liver and
blue cheese.

If the ingredients are listed in decreasing amounts as is normal, then
I guess that the eggs will be there to make a "set" and the milk to
give some softness and maybe to soften the flavours as well. I can't
see either being present in sufficiently large quantities to affect
the flavour much or it's match with wine. I have to say I'm having
real difficulty "mindtasting" this terrine.

I haven't a clue what I'd serve with such a beast. I make some cheese
pastes, but they don't have pork or chicken liver. I make a pork
terrine but that doesn't have cheese and I make a chicken liver
terrine and that has neither of the above. As to what component made
the wines taste odd, I have a suspicion it might be the chicken liver.
I remember once doing a dinner where I served a chicken liver pate
with Berkasteler Doktor kabinett 73 - this was a very long time ago
when I was very much in the early stages of learning about food and
wine matches. The paté completely destroyed the wine, to the extent
that we all agreed to drink water with the pate and then take a break
before moving on the next course, during which we'd drink the wine.

Bleu d'auvergne isn't a disaster with most reds - we serve a closely
related wine, Bleu des Causses, at most of our dinners and very often
people like to finish their reds with it, despite my best endeavour to
discourage them! It's not the match of the century - far from it, but
it's not M.A.D. either.

As you said, you could think about serving a genuinely sweet wine. Not
necessarily as far gone as a Sauternes, but the sort of wine sold in
France as "Vin moelleux" The second one on this page, for example.
http://www.chateaulamaurigne.com/gamme.html
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

Hi Ian
Maybe this tells you something:
http://www.terroirdauvergne.com/Prod...roduit0237.php

As to the Bernkasteler Doktor Kabinett 1973 I believe that the vintage was
less than spectacular..., anyway the Doktor is wildly overrated... :-)
Anders

"IanH" > skrev i melding
news
> Hi Tom,
>
>
> On Fri, 6 Feb 2009 02:24:15 -0800 (PST), Tom
> > wrote:
>
>>Terrine au Bleu d'Auvergne: pork meat, poultry liver, Bleu d'Auvergne
>>(i.e., bleu cheese), eggs, milk, pepper, ascorbic acid, sodium nitrite
>>(commercial product (i.e., not freshly made) in a glass jar, room
>>temperature storage/consumption)
>
> I have never heard of making a terrine with pork, chicken liver and
> blue cheese.
>
> If the ingredients are listed in decreasing amounts as is normal, then
> I guess that the eggs will be there to make a "set" and the milk to
> give some softness and maybe to soften the flavours as well. I can't
> see either being present in sufficiently large quantities to affect
> the flavour much or it's match with wine. I have to say I'm having
> real difficulty "mindtasting" this terrine.
>
> I haven't a clue what I'd serve with such a beast. I make some cheese
> pastes, but they don't have pork or chicken liver. I make a pork
> terrine but that doesn't have cheese and I make a chicken liver
> terrine and that has neither of the above. As to what component made
> the wines taste odd, I have a suspicion it might be the chicken liver.
> I remember once doing a dinner where I served a chicken liver pate
> with Berkasteler Doktor kabinett 73 - this was a very long time ago
> when I was very much in the early stages of learning about food and
> wine matches. The paté completely destroyed the wine, to the extent
> that we all agreed to drink water with the pate and then take a break
> before moving on the next course, during which we'd drink the wine.
>
> Bleu d'auvergne isn't a disaster with most reds - we serve a closely
> related wine, Bleu des Causses, at most of our dinners and very often
> people like to finish their reds with it, despite my best endeavour to
> discourage them! It's not the match of the century - far from it, but
> it's not M.A.D. either.
>
> As you said, you could think about serving a genuinely sweet wine. Not
> necessarily as far gone as a Sauternes, but the sort of wine sold in
> France as "Vin moelleux" The second one on this page, for example.
> http://www.chateaulamaurigne.com/gamme.html
> --
> All the best
> Fatty from Forges

Hi Anders.
On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:05:16 +0100, "Anders Tørneskog"
> wrote:

>Hi Ian
>Maybe this tells you something:
>http://www.terroirdauvergne.com/Prod...roduit0237.php

Not too much because what I can't do is to get my head around the
marriage between the three major components. I know Bleu d'Auvergne
very well, as we only live about 25km from the Corrèze Cantal bordr,
so there's a lot of overlap between the two departments and regions
and it'sone of the blue cheeses on offer in 99% of the local
restaurants.

>As to the Bernkasteler Doktor Kabinett 1973 I believe that the vintage was
>less than spectacular..., anyway the Doktor is wildly overrated... :-)

I'm tempted to say "so what?" I bought about 65 bottles on offer at
99p a bottle, and put about 4 dozen into auction where I made a very
tidy profit. I did keep a few back and therefore knew the wine very
well - Remember this was in about 1978 or so, and at that time I
didn't know THAT much about wine. However I knew enough to make
sufficient money from the sale to pay for a trip to France.

The point of my post was not the intrinsic quality of the good Doktor
or the vintage about which I agree with you entirely. The point was
that this was a wine I knew pretty well, which was destroyed by a
chicken liver pté. As to whether the presence of that ingredient in a
dish flavoured with Bleu d'Auvergne would have been responsible for
the effect on the wines with which it was tasted I don't know, it is
relevant only in that I WAS able to put my finger on something that
was to me at the time an enltirely unexpected mismatch.

May i remind you that I said:-

>> As to what component made the wines taste odd, I have a suspicion it might be the chicken liver.

THAT was the point of the post. No one else - in a week - had fingered
the chicken liver.

--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

"IanH" > skrev i melding
...
>
> ... The point was
> that this was a wine I knew pretty well, which was destroyed by a
> chicken liver pté.

Ah, there it is - you knew the wine well! Then I rest my case :-)

And with respect to the terrine, the ingredients were listed on that web
page; Maigre et gras de porc - Foie de porc - Bleu d'Auvergne - Lait -
Oeufs - Farine de blé - Sel - Poivre

What wine to choose for that is beyond me, of course. I'm playing with the
notions of a Barbera d'Asti or an Alsace Gewürztraminer VT... Hmm, silly
me?


Best,
Anders

Thanks, everyone, for all the great comments/discussions.

I took my time getting back to this and getting hold of another almost
identical terrine seems somewhat impractical.

My wife and I did, however, pick up a "Blu di Mucca" (from Piedmont)
at the Slow Food London Easter Market. This Italian cheese is like
Gorgonzola, but no channels are made in the cheese via needling (also
apparently done for Bleu d'Auvergne). We paired this with the Vouvray
described below and it worked very well. That characteristic taste of
a blu/bleu/blue cheese is at first washed away with this semi-sweet,
acidic wine (replaced by the wine's elegant fruit, which we found hard
to describe). After the wine taste fades, the cheese taste comes back
in, slightly (but pleasantly) altered. Really enjoyable.

We tried the Vouvray with some nice wild boar salami and that worked,
too.

This was a good education for our palates as we usually steer far and
wide from any sort of semi-sweet or sweet wines combined with savory
foods. No more. We may be hooked!

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
BORILLON DORLEANS 2007 DEMI-SEC
VAL DE LOIRE
LA BOURDONNERIE
A. VOUVRAY C.
12.5% alcohol
(presumably 100% chenin blanc)
7.99 GBP (11.90 USD, 9.01 EUR) at
http://www.majestic.co.uk/find/categ...oduct-is-05247
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

Tom wrote:
> Thanks, everyone, for all the great comments/discussions.
>
> I took my time getting back to this and getting hold of another almost
> identical terrine seems somewhat impractical.
>
> My wife and I did, however, pick up a "Blu di Mucca" (from Piedmont)
> at the Slow Food London Easter Market. This Italian cheese is like
> Gorgonzola, but no channels are made in the cheese via needling (also
> apparently done for Bleu d'Auvergne). We paired this with the Vouvray
> described below and it worked very well. That characteristic taste of
> a blu/bleu/blue cheese is at first washed away with this semi-sweet,
> acidic wine (replaced by the wine's elegant fruit, which we found hard
> to describe). After the wine taste fades, the cheese taste comes back
> in, slightly (but pleasantly) altered. Really enjoyable.
>
> We tried the Vouvray with some nice wild boar salami and that worked,
> too.
>
> This was a good education for our palates as we usually steer far and
> wide from any sort of semi-sweet or sweet wines combined with savory
> foods. No more. We may be hooked!
>
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> BORILLON DORLEANS 2007 DEMI-SEC
> VAL DE LOIRE
> LA BOURDONNERIE
> A. VOUVRAY C.
> 12.5% alcohol
> (presumably 100% chenin blanc)

And thank you for the follow-up. Glad you enjoyed.

Certainly 100% chenin, but I think it's funny we say "chenin blanc."
Apparently "chenin rouge" is cinsault, but I've never heard it called
C.R. even in the Anjou.

-E