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Old 06-02-2008, 02:14 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

Jay "not the one with points/who needs ripeness/NYC's own" Miller did
a great job organizing a horizontal of 2000 Clos Vougeot last night at
Michael's in midtown Manhattan. 9 metro area winegeeks gathered to
taste 11 '00 Burgs (10 Clos Vougeot and 1 ringer) blind. A nice vocal
and opinionated group, with some diverging tastes. I was not feeling
100%, and was quieter than norm, but thought I'd trot out my brief
impressions to give a start, others can fill in their opinions. Jay
and Cliff Rosenberg had double-decanted the wines about an hour before
dinner I believe.

Wine # 1
Medium bodied, bright acidity, crisp if slightly subdued red cherry
and raspberry fruit, nice mineral finish. This was some people's
favorite, but later in night it was revealed to be slightly corked.
Would like to taste a "correct" bottle. B+ when initially poured

Wine # 2
Ripe warm fruit, low acid, entire package seems flat and
uninteresting. Somewhat short on finish, one of only 2 bottles I
really found unappealing. C+

Wine # 3
A lifted nose with a slight candied note at first, a little oak, but I
like the palate better than the nose. Good structure, nice wine. B/B+

Wine # 4
Quite dumb on the nose at first. Big on palate, extracted but not
oaky, maybe just a hint of green. Table consensus it's the Jadot.
Chewy wine, but I like. B+

Wine #5
Big, ripe, long- one of the more divisive wines. The bottle has clued
in people its the Leroy. I find it appealing, yet not really what I
look for in Burgundy - a voluptuous wine. I say it is trying to be a
Pomerol, which gets me some strange looks, till I explain I meant
texturally, the lushness. That at least keeps me from getting kicked
off table. B/B+

Wine # 6
I don't especially care for this at first, but it really grows on me
with air to become one of my favorites of night. Sweet fruit, crisp
acidity, moderate tannins. Some herb and cocoa notes. A-/B+

Wine # 7
At first fruit on nose strikes me as unusual, ripe red plums, but
seems to settle into a more Burgundesque cherry/raspberry profile. On
palate this is really beautiful, a medium-bodied wine with dark
cherry, earth, and a little herb. Ends up as my vote for WOTN. I'm
thinking this might be the Mugneret. A-

Wine #8
Maybe just a hint of barnyard, sweet fruit with a bit of oak, I find
a little hard, but with some time could be good. B/B+

Wine # 9
Spicy toasty oak, nice balance of black raspberry fruit, tannin, and
acidity. I think this might be the Meo. B+/A-

Wine # 10
Sweet, big, ripe fruit but with lots of acidity (almost too much for
me), tannic structure. Needs time. B/B+

Wine # 11
Huge ripe nose, someone says "Loring." Lots of oak, this reminds me of
cherry cough syrup. C+

Wines were revealed:
1.2000 Fourrier "Petits Vougeot" Vougeot 1er Cru
2. 2000 Lamarche Clos Vougeot (I realize some producers label Clos de
Vougeot, but I'll be simple and consistent)
3. 2000 JJ Confuron Clos Vougeot
4. 2000 Jadot Clos Vougeot
5. 2000 Leroy Clos Vougeot
6. 2000 George Mugneret Clos Vougeot
7. 2000 Rene Engel Clos Vougeot
8. 2000 Meo-Camuzet Clos Vougeot
9. 2000 Jean Grivot Clos Vougeot
10. 2000 Potel Clos Vougeot
11. 2000 Anne Gros Clos Vougeot

The fun of tasting blind. If you had asked me beforehand, I wouldn't
have predicted Engel in my top 3, much less my favorite. And would
have guessed Anne Gros to be a fave, rather than my last place
finisher. The Engel and Grivot were particular finds, as comparative
values

There was one non-blind bottle, the 1992 Drouhin Clos Vougeot, Jay
brought as he couldn't locate the 2000. A nice mature Burg, tannins
resolved, good acidity, some mineral, maybe just a hint of (not
unattractive) greenness still there. Wish I still had my food when
this came around. B/B+

Kudos to Jay for a great job coordinating, thanks to Chet for the
Leroy, Paul Jaouen for arranging venue,and to everyone for the good
company. I liked my food, though the sauces on the sweetbreads and the
veal cheeks were a bit much for the wines. Others had some doneness
issues with meat, but I think everyone had a good time. Overall I had
quite a favorable impression of the wines, though I was a bit fatigued
and maybe not up to mustering my usual enthusiasm. Fun night anyway.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

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Old 06-02-2008, 04:55 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

On Feb 6, 9:14�am, DaleW wrote:
Jay "not the one with points/who needs ripeness/NYC's own" Miller did
a great job organizing a horizontal of 2000 Clos Vougeot last night at
Michael's in midtown Manhattan. 9 metro area winegeeks gathered to
taste 11 '00 Burgs (10 Clos Vougeot and 1 ringer) blind. A nice vocal
and opinionated group, with some diverging tastes. I was not feeling
100%, and was quieter than norm, but thought I'd trot out my brief
impressions to give a start, others can fill in their opinions. Jay
and Cliff Rosenberg had double-decanted the wines about an hour before
dinner I believe.

Wine # 1
Medium bodied, bright acidity, crisp if slightly subdued red cherry
and raspberry fruit, nice mineral finish. This was some people's
favorite, but later in night it was revealed to be slightly corked.
Would like to taste a "correct" bottle. B+ when initially poured

Wine # �2
Ripe warm fruit, low acid, entire package seems flat and
uninteresting. Somewhat short on finish, one of only 2 bottles I
really found unappealing. C+

Wine # 3
A lifted nose with a slight candied note at first, a little oak, but I
like the palate better than the nose. Good structure, nice wine. B/B+

Wine # 4
Quite dumb on the nose at first. Big on palate, extracted but not
oaky, maybe just a hint of green. Table consensus it's the Jadot.
Chewy wine, but I like. B+

Wine #5
Big, ripe, long- one of the more divisive wines. The bottle has clued
in people its the Leroy. I find it appealing, yet not really what I
look for in Burgundy - a voluptuous wine. I say it is trying to be a
Pomerol, which gets me some strange looks, till I explain I meant
texturally, the lushness. That at least keeps me from getting kicked
off table. B/B+

Wine # 6
I don't especially care for this at first, but it really grows on me
with air to become one of my favorites of night. Sweet fruit, crisp
acidity, moderate tannins. Some herb and cocoa notes. A-/B+

Wine # 7
At first fruit on nose strikes me as unusual, ripe red plums, but
seems to settle into a more Burgundesque cherry/raspberry profile. On
palate this is really beautiful, a medium-bodied wine with dark
cherry, earth, and a little herb. Ends up as my vote for WOTN. I'm
thinking this might be the Mugneret. A-

Wine #8
Maybe just a hint of barnyard, sweet fruit with a bit of oak, I find
a little hard, but with some time could be good. B/B+

Wine # 9
Spicy toasty oak, nice balance of black raspberry fruit, tannin, and
acidity. I think this might be the Meo. B+/A-

Wine # 10
Sweet, big, ripe fruit but with lots of acidity (almost too much for
me), tannic structure. Needs time. B/B+

Wine # 11
Huge ripe nose, someone says "Loring." Lots of oak, this reminds me of
cherry cough syrup. C+

Wines were revealed:
1.2000 Fourrier "Petits Vougeot" Vougeot 1er Cru
2. 2000 Lamarche Clos Vougeot (I realize some producers label Clos de
Vougeot, but I'll be simple and consistent)
3. 2000 JJ Confuron Clos Vougeot
4. 2000 Jadot Clos Vougeot
5. 2000 Leroy Clos Vougeot
6. 2000 George Mugneret Clos Vougeot
7. 2000 Rene Engel Clos Vougeot
8. 2000 Meo-Camuzet Clos Vougeot
9. 2000 Jean Grivot Clos Vougeot
10. 2000 Potel Clos Vougeot
11. 2000 Anne Gros Clos Vougeot

The fun of tasting blind. If you had asked me beforehand, I wouldn't
have predicted Engel in my top 3, much less my favorite. And would
have guessed Anne Gros to be a fave, rather than my last place
finisher. The Engel and Grivot were particular finds, as comparative
values

There was one non-blind bottle, the 1992 Drouhin Clos Vougeot, Jay
brought as he couldn't locate the 2000. A nice mature Burg, tannins
resolved, good acidity, some mineral, maybe just a hint of (not
unattractive) greenness still there. Wish I still had my food when
this came around. B/B+

Kudos to Jay for a great job coordinating, thanks to Chet for the
Leroy, �Paul Jaouen for arranging venue,and to everyone for the good
company. I liked my food, though the sauces on the sweetbreads and the
veal cheeks were a bit much for the wines. Others had some doneness
issues with meat, but I think everyone had a good time. Overall I had
quite a favorable impression of the wines, though I was a bit fatigued
and maybe not up to mustering my usual enthusiasm. Fun night anyway.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.


Well, for being tired or not up to par you did a nice job with the
notes. Thanks for the detailed summary. I would agree your
comment on the Engel and Gros although I recently opened a bottle of
the 2000 Engle CdV and thought it was tasty and improving. I also
would agree with your assement of the Leroy "lushness" and I always
wonder if it's the concentration of quality fruit or is it cellar
manipulation. Given that she's really big into biodynamics and
terroir I haven't gotten much terroir in her wines in recent
years...just big deep fruit.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:27 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

DaleW wrote:

The fun of tasting blind. If you had asked me beforehand, I wouldn't
have predicted Engel in my top 3, much less my favorite. And would
have guessed Anne Gros to be a fave, rather than my last place
finisher. The Engel and Grivot were particular finds, as comparative
values

There was one non-blind bottle, the 1992 Drouhin Clos Vougeot, Jay
brought as he couldn't locate the 2000. A nice mature Burg, tannins
resolved, good acidity, some mineral, maybe just a hint of (not
unattractive) greenness still there. Wish I still had my food when
this came around. B/B+

Kudos to Jay for a great job coordinating, thanks to Chet for the
Leroy, Paul Jaouen for arranging venue,and to everyone for the good
company. I liked my food, though the sauces on the sweetbreads and the
veal cheeks were a bit much for the wines. Others had some doneness
issues with meat, but I think everyone had a good time. Overall I had
quite a favorable impression of the wines, though I was a bit fatigued
and maybe not up to mustering my usual enthusiasm. Fun night anyway.


What a great tasting, Dale! (Too bad I'm a few days late for it) As you
well know, with Clos Vougeot more than any other Burgundy it's not just
a matter of winemaker's skill/philosophy, but also of holdings. I
wonder if Anne Gros doesn't have access to the better CdV fruit, though
that doesn't explain the heavyhanded oakiness (unless it's underfruited
rather than overoaked, as they say). Given your positive experience
with Grivot, I might just have to lug along that '98 Vosne I threatened
you with earlier, though lately I've been leaning toward an '88 Groffier
Chambertin Clos de Beze to resolve an earlier discussion re Groffier's
wines. Any preference? (I will factor that in if expressed)

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:49 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,554
Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

On Feb 6, 1:27�pm, Mark Lipton wrote:
DaleW wrote:

The fun of tasting blind. If you had asked me beforehand, I wouldn't
have predicted Engel in my top 3, much less my favorite. And would
have guessed Anne Gros to be a fave, rather than my last place
finisher. The Engel and Grivot were particular finds, as comparative
values


There was one non-blind bottle, the 1992 Drouhin Clos Vougeot, Jay
brought as he couldn't locate the 2000. A nice mature Burg, tannins
resolved, good acidity, some mineral, maybe just a hint of (not
unattractive) greenness still there. Wish I still had my food when
this came around. B/B+


Kudos to Jay for a great job coordinating, thanks to Chet for the
Leroy, �Paul Jaouen for arranging venue,and to everyone for the good
company. I liked my food, though the sauces on the sweetbreads and the
veal cheeks were a bit much for the wines. Others had some doneness
issues with meat, but I think everyone had a good time. Overall I had
quite a favorable impression of the wines, though I was a bit fatigued
and maybe not up to mustering my usual enthusiasm. Fun night anyway.


What a great tasting, Dale! (Too bad I'm a few days late for it) �As you
well know, with Clos Vougeot more than any other Burgundy it's not just
a matter of winemaker's skill/philosophy, but also of holdings. �I
wonder if Anne Gros doesn't have access to the better CdV fruit, though
that doesn't explain the heavyhanded oakiness (unless it's underfruited
rather than overoaked, as they say). �Given your positive experience
with Grivot, I might just have to lug along that '98 Vosne I threatened
you with earlier, though lately I've been leaning toward an '88 Groffier
Chambertin Clos de Beze to resolve an earlier discussion re Groffier's
wines. �Any preference? (I will factor that in if expressed)

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Whatever you choose is fine.I'm white, right?
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:51 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,554
Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

On Feb 6, 11:55*am, "Bi!!" wrote:
On Feb 6, 9:14�am, DaleW wrote:





Jay "not the one with points/who needs ripeness/NYC's own" Miller did
a great job organizing a horizontal of 2000 Clos Vougeot last night at
Michael's in midtown Manhattan. 9 metro area winegeeks gathered to
taste 11 '00 Burgs (10 Clos Vougeot and 1 ringer) blind. A nice vocal
and opinionated group, with some diverging tastes. I was not feeling
100%, and was quieter than norm, but thought I'd trot out my brief
impressions to give a start, others can fill in their opinions. Jay
and Cliff Rosenberg had double-decanted the wines about an hour before
dinner I believe.


Wine # 1
Medium bodied, bright acidity, crisp if slightly subdued red cherry
and raspberry fruit, nice mineral finish. This was some people's
favorite, but later in night it was revealed to be slightly corked.
Would like to taste a "correct" bottle. B+ when initially poured


Wine # �2
Ripe warm fruit, low acid, entire package seems flat and
uninteresting. Somewhat short on finish, one of only 2 bottles I
really found unappealing. C+


Wine # 3
A lifted nose with a slight candied note at first, a little oak, but I
like the palate better than the nose. Good structure, nice wine. B/B+


Wine # 4
Quite dumb on the nose at first. Big on palate, extracted but not
oaky, maybe just a hint of green. Table consensus it's the Jadot.
Chewy wine, but I like. B+


Wine #5
Big, ripe, long- one of the more divisive wines. The bottle has clued
in people its the Leroy. I find it appealing, yet not really what I
look for in Burgundy - a voluptuous wine. I say it is trying to be a
Pomerol, which gets me some strange looks, till I explain I meant
texturally, the lushness. That at least keeps me from getting kicked
off table. B/B+


Wine # 6
I don't especially care for this at first, but it really grows on me
with air to become one of my favorites of night. Sweet fruit, crisp
acidity, moderate tannins. Some herb and cocoa notes. A-/B+


Wine # 7
At first fruit on nose strikes me as unusual, ripe red plums, but
seems to settle into a more Burgundesque cherry/raspberry profile. On
palate this is really beautiful, a medium-bodied wine with dark
cherry, earth, and a little herb. Ends up as my vote for WOTN. I'm
thinking this might be the Mugneret. A-


Wine #8
Maybe just a hint of barnyard, sweet fruit with a bit of oak, I find
a little hard, but with some time could be good. B/B+


Wine # 9
Spicy toasty oak, nice balance of black raspberry fruit, tannin, and
acidity. I think this might be the Meo. B+/A-


Wine # 10
Sweet, big, ripe fruit but with lots of acidity (almost too much for
me), tannic structure. Needs time. B/B+


Wine # 11
Huge ripe nose, someone says "Loring." Lots of oak, this reminds me of
cherry cough syrup. C+


Wines were revealed:
1.2000 Fourrier "Petits Vougeot" Vougeot 1er Cru
2. 2000 Lamarche Clos Vougeot (I realize some producers label Clos de
Vougeot, but I'll be simple and consistent)
3. 2000 JJ Confuron Clos Vougeot
4. 2000 Jadot Clos Vougeot
5. 2000 Leroy Clos Vougeot
6. 2000 George Mugneret Clos Vougeot
7. 2000 Rene Engel Clos Vougeot
8. 2000 Meo-Camuzet Clos Vougeot
9. 2000 Jean Grivot Clos Vougeot
10. 2000 Potel Clos Vougeot
11. 2000 Anne Gros Clos Vougeot


The fun of tasting blind. If you had asked me beforehand, I wouldn't
have predicted Engel in my top 3, much less my favorite. And would
have guessed Anne Gros to be a fave, rather than my last place
finisher. The Engel and Grivot were particular finds, as comparative
values


There was one non-blind bottle, the 1992 Drouhin Clos Vougeot, Jay
brought as he couldn't locate the 2000. A nice mature Burg, tannins
resolved, good acidity, some mineral, maybe just a hint of (not
unattractive) greenness still there. Wish I still had my food when
this came around. B/B+


Kudos to Jay for a great job coordinating, thanks to Chet for the
Leroy, �Paul Jaouen for arranging venue,and to everyone for the good
company. I liked my food, though the sauces on the sweetbreads and the
veal cheeks were a bit much for the wines. Others had some doneness
issues with meat, but I think everyone had a good time. Overall I had
quite a favorable impression of the wines, though I was a bit fatigued
and maybe not up to mustering my usual enthusiasm. Fun night anyway.


Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.


Well, for being tired or not up to par you did a nice job with the
notes. *Thanks for the detailed summary. *I would agree your
comment on the Engel and Gros although I recently opened a bottle of
the 2000 Engle CdV and thought it was tasty and improving. *I also
would agree with your assement of the Leroy "lushness" and I always
wonder if it's the concentration of quality fruit or is it cellar
manipulation. *Given that she's really big into biodynamics and
terroir I haven't gotten much terroir in her wines in recent
years...just big deep fruit.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Unsure what method she used, but the Leroy was more about Leroy than
terroir to me. Certainly an impressive wine, though.
With CdV so big, not sure if I have a firm grip on what CdV's terroir
IS, though.


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Old 06-02-2008, 06:52 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,930
Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

On Feb 6, 1:49*pm, DaleW wrote:
On Feb 6, 1:27�pm, Mark Lipton wrote:





DaleW wrote:


The fun of tasting blind. If you had asked me beforehand, I wouldn't
have predicted Engel in my top 3, much less my favorite. And would
have guessed Anne Gros to be a fave, rather than my last place
finisher. The Engel and Grivot were particular finds, as comparative
values


There was one non-blind bottle, the 1992 Drouhin Clos Vougeot, Jay
brought as he couldn't locate the 2000. A nice mature Burg, tannins
resolved, good acidity, some mineral, maybe just a hint of (not
unattractive) greenness still there. Wish I still had my food when
this came around. B/B+


Kudos to Jay for a great job coordinating, thanks to Chet for the
Leroy, �Paul Jaouen for arranging venue,and to everyone for the good
company. I liked my food, though the sauces on the sweetbreads and the
veal cheeks were a bit much for the wines. Others had some doneness
issues with meat, but I think everyone had a good time. Overall I had
quite a favorable impression of the wines, though I was a bit fatigued
and maybe not up to mustering my usual enthusiasm. Fun night anyway.


What a great tasting, Dale! (Too bad I'm a few days late for it) �As you
well know, with Clos Vougeot more than any other Burgundy it's not just
a matter of winemaker's skill/philosophy, but also of holdings. �I
wonder if Anne Gros doesn't have access to the better CdV fruit, though
that doesn't explain the heavyhanded oakiness (unless it's underfruited
rather than overoaked, as they say). �Given your positive experience
with Grivot, I might just have to lug along that '98 Vosne I threatened
you with earlier, though lately I've been leaning toward an '88 Groffier
Chambertin Clos de Beze to resolve an earlier discussion re Groffier's
wines. �Any preference? (I will factor that in if expressed)


Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com-Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Whatever you choose is fine.I'm white, right?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


IF the pictures that you posted on the web a while back are correct
you are most certainly white.
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Old 06-02-2008, 06:52 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

On Feb 6, 1:27�pm, Mark Lipton wrote:
DaleW wrote:

The fun of tasting blind. If you had asked me beforehand, I wouldn't
have predicted Engel in my top 3, much less my favorite. And would
have guessed Anne Gros to be a fave, rather than my last place
finisher. The Engel and Grivot were particular finds, as comparative
values


There was one non-blind bottle, the 1992 Drouhin Clos Vougeot, Jay
brought as he couldn't locate the 2000. A nice mature Burg, tannins
resolved, good acidity, some mineral, maybe just a hint of (not
unattractive) greenness still there. Wish I still had my food when
this came around. B/B+


Kudos to Jay for a great job coordinating, thanks to Chet for the
Leroy, �Paul Jaouen for arranging venue,and to everyone for the good
company. I liked my food, though the sauces on the sweetbreads and the
veal cheeks were a bit much for the wines. Others had some doneness
issues with meat, but I think everyone had a good time. Overall I had
quite a favorable impression of the wines, though I was a bit fatigued
and maybe not up to mustering my usual enthusiasm. Fun night anyway.


What a great tasting, Dale! (Too bad I'm a few days late for it) �As you
well know, with Clos Vougeot more than any other Burgundy it's not just
a matter of winemaker's skill/philosophy, but also of holdings. �I
wonder if Anne Gros doesn't have access to the better CdV fruit, though
that doesn't explain the heavyhanded oakiness (unless it's underfruited
rather than overoaked, as they say). �Given your positive experience
with Grivot, I might just have to lug along that '98 Vosne I threatened
you with earlier, though lately I've been leaning toward an '88 Groffier
Chambertin Clos de Beze to resolve an earlier discussion re Groffier's
wines. �Any preference? (I will factor that in if expressed)

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I think most people regard Anne Gros as a "better" CdV producer, with
good holdings. It vies with the Mugneret and Meo for "most expensive
after the Leroy". More of a style thing for me, I think.
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Old 06-02-2008, 08:09 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Posts: 1,930
Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

On Feb 6, 1:52*pm, DaleW wrote:
On Feb 6, 1:27�pm, Mark Lipton wrote:





DaleW wrote:


The fun of tasting blind. If you had asked me beforehand, I wouldn't
have predicted Engel in my top 3, much less my favorite. And would
have guessed Anne Gros to be a fave, rather than my last place
finisher. The Engel and Grivot were particular finds, as comparative
values


There was one non-blind bottle, the 1992 Drouhin Clos Vougeot, Jay
brought as he couldn't locate the 2000. A nice mature Burg, tannins
resolved, good acidity, some mineral, maybe just a hint of (not
unattractive) greenness still there. Wish I still had my food when
this came around. B/B+


Kudos to Jay for a great job coordinating, thanks to Chet for the
Leroy, �Paul Jaouen for arranging venue,and to everyone for the good
company. I liked my food, though the sauces on the sweetbreads and the
veal cheeks were a bit much for the wines. Others had some doneness
issues with meat, but I think everyone had a good time. Overall I had
quite a favorable impression of the wines, though I was a bit fatigued
and maybe not up to mustering my usual enthusiasm. Fun night anyway.


What a great tasting, Dale! (Too bad I'm a few days late for it) �As you
well know, with Clos Vougeot more than any other Burgundy it's not just
a matter of winemaker's skill/philosophy, but also of holdings. �I
wonder if Anne Gros doesn't have access to the better CdV fruit, though
that doesn't explain the heavyhanded oakiness (unless it's underfruited
rather than overoaked, as they say). �Given your positive experience
with Grivot, I might just have to lug along that '98 Vosne I threatened
you with earlier, though lately I've been leaning toward an '88 Groffier
Chambertin Clos de Beze to resolve an earlier discussion re Groffier's
wines. �Any preference? (I will factor that in if expressed)


Mark Lipton


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alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com-Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I think most people regard Anne Gros as a "better" CdV producer, with
good holdings. It vies with the Mugneret and Meo for "most expensive
after the Leroy". More of a style thing for me, I think.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I absolutely get the "cherry cough syrup" thing from Anne Gros wines
in general and it can be off putting. As far as the terroir of CdV
goes it's probably hard to define the terroir of a vineyard that large
with so many growers but my comment was really meant in a more general
way in that in the past few years it seems that Leroy's wines show
much more front loaded fruit than earthy mineral components that could
be related to flavors that are terroir driven although it could be
argued that big fruit is a component of terroir in a general sense.
It seems like the vicoden is kicking in and I'm talking in circles....!
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Old 06-02-2008, 09:14 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

DaleW wrote:

Whatever you choose is fine.I'm white, right?


Whatever you'd like to do. I was figuring on ordering a white off the
list, but given the cuisine and company, I doubt that we could have too
many whites.

Mark Lipton

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Old 07-02-2008, 06:22 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: 10 2000 Clos de Vougeot, 1 '92, 1 Vougeot 1er

On Feb 6, 8:14 am, DaleW wrote:

Wines were revealed:
1.2000 Fourrier "Petits Vougeot" Vougeot 1er Cru
2. 2000 Lamarche Clos Vougeot (I realize some producers label Clos de
Vougeot, but I'll be simple and consistent)


I had the Lamarche C Vougeot 1971 many years ago along with their 71
Grande Rue, Echezeaux, and I think one or two more.The C Vougeot was
one of the less impressive of the lot. They may not have the best
plots of it, 1971 was rather variable because of very localized
weather conditions including hail, and in some quarters Lamarche wines
had a reputation of being a bit rustic back then. I have read that
Lamarche has improved since the 70s. Their most interesting wine is
Grande Rue and Lamarche owns all of this tiny vineyard. I would like
to see how it would taste if DRC or Leroy made some wine from it, but
of course this likely will never happen unless DRC or Leroy buys La
Grande Rue in the future.

3. 2000 JJ Confuron Clos Vougeot
4. 2000 Jadot Clos Vougeot
5. 2000 Leroy Clos Vougeot
6. 2000 George Mugneret Clos Vougeot
7. 2000 Rene Engel Clos Vougeot
8. 2000 Meo-Camuzet Clos Vougeot
9. 2000 Jean Grivot Clos Vougeot
10. 2000 Potel Clos Vougeot
11. 2000 Anne Gros Clos Vougeot


It would have been nice if you had some Clos Blanc de Vougeot 2000 if
any was made that year. This small vineyard is not part of the Clos
Vougeot vineyard. The 1973 from D, L'Heritier Guyot (of cassis fame)
was still holding when I tasted it a few years ago. This tends to be a
big fat wine, not as complex and delicate as many of the better know
white Burgundy wines, but well worth tasting when one has the chance.

I have not bought any Clos Vougeot since the 1978 vintage. Although I
have tasted a few very good examples, too often it falls well below
the quality of several other top red Burgandy wines. One has to
remember that this once was church property, and this large vineyard
always has produced variable quality wine depending on the location of
the vines in the vineyard, even when the monks tended it and made the
wine. The best locations tend to be higher up, and the worst locations
tend to be low down the hill. Today the vineyard is fragmented into a
huge number of mostly tiny plots with different owners. Some owners
may own a bit high up the hill, a bit near the bottom, etc. It is easy
to see why the whole vineyard was given a high classification in
modern times, since it had been in existence for hundreds of years.
However likely about 1/2 of the mostly bottom part of the vineyard is
not up to the standards of surrounding top vineyards, and it really
should be given a different name and lower classification. I did buy
some 1988 and 1990 top Burgundy, but not Clos Vougeot.

I don't know what plots of Clos Vougeot Mme. Leroy owns. In the past
Leroy also has made wines from bought grapes, and some of the older
examples of these hold up very well and cost a small fortune. If one
wants to compare the Leroy style at the best, either her Richebourg or
Romanee Saint Vivant should be tasted against the corresponding wines
from DRC in the same year. Good recent years to compare would be the
1988 or 1990, although neither are likely yet at their peak. Both DRC
and Leroy wines are made from fully ripe and carefully selected
grapes. They can afford to take chances to let the grapes ripen longer
than many other less rich owners. They also take extreme care in
cultivation and picking of the grapes. Also the tend to use rather
long and traditional wine making methods. Both wines can sometimes
have attractive fruity tastes when young, but a top year of either
likely should not be opened before 20 years and may well still be very
good at 50 years or more old. The wines tend to be dumb from a few
years to up to 20 or more years in some of the best years.





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