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  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Posts: 215
Default vegan dishonesty on display...

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:45:30 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>"Derek" > wrote in message ...
>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:12:33 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>>"Derek" > wrote in message ...
>>>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 01:54:27 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>>>>"Derek" > wrote in message ...
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 01:13:17 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>>>>>>"Derek" > wrote in message ...
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:00:48 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>"Derek" wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 11:23:31 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>"Derek" wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 22:41:27 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Derek" wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 11:36:14 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The beef I eat does is not fed ANY grains or crops.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You cannot guarantee that,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>=========================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, I can fool....
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No, you cannot, even if that beef carries an "USDA
>>>>>>>>>>>> Process Verified” shield next to the label “grass
>>>>>>>>>>>> fed."
>>>>>>>>>>>======================
>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, I can fool.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, you can't.
>>>>>>>>>======================
>>>>>>>>>Yes, I can fool.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not without lying, you can't.
>>>>>>>======================
>>>>>>>Completely without lying fool.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You've lied about grass fed beef, despite evidence from
>>>>>> USDA that proves you've lied and continuing to lie.
>>>>>=========================
>>>>>Nope
>>>>
>>>> Evidence from USDA shows that you have, which is
>>>> why you keep snipping it away at EVERY turn.
>>>==========================
>>>Fool, YOU have no evidence from the USDA about where my beef
>>>comes from.

>>
>> The evidence from USDA shows us that so-called
>> grass fed beef can be and is fed grains. I didn't say
>> USDA has evidence of where your alleged beef
>> comes from.

>========================
>Thanks for admitting that you have been lying about the beef I
>eat, fool.


I've admitted no such thing. I've never claimed that the
USDA has evidence of where you get your meat. My
use of the USDA's material is to show that, contrary to
your unsupported assertions, "Products that passed an
inspection could carry a “USDA Process Verified” shield
next to the label “grass fed” if as little as 80 percent of the
feed were grass, with no limits on the other 20 percent."

<re-re-re-re-restore>
[The claims “100 percent grass fed” and “grass fed only,”
which may appear on other companies’ packaging, would
be useful if true, but they’re not verified, either.

A proposal by the USDA for an optional verification
program for “process claims,” including feeding methods,
would only add to the confusion. Products that passed an
inspection could carry a “USDA Process Verified” shield
next to the label “grass fed” if as little as 80 percent of the
feed were grass, with no limits on the other 20 percent;
“grain fed” could be used with a diet of as little as 50
percent grain. The agency has delayed implementation of
the rule after protests from farmer and consumer groups,
including Consumers Union, publisher of Consumer Reports
magazine.]
http://tinyurl.com/b63f3

Here below is that standard from USDA.

Claim and Standard:
[sbull] Grass Fed.--Grass, green or range pasture, or
forage shall be 80% or more of the primary energy
source throughout the animal's life cycle.

Dated: December 20, 2002.
A.J. Yates,
Administrator, Agricultural Marketing Service.
[FR Doc. 02-32806 Filed 12-27-02; 8:45 am]

BILLING CODE 3410-02-P]
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

And below is a statement from the same page urging so-
called grass fed beef producers to use those proposed
marketing claims standards while U.S.D.A. prepares to
make them final by publishing them.

"The proposed marketing claim standards may be used in
conjunction with [non]existing regulations or voluntary
USDA grade standards in USDA Certified and USDA
Verified programs." [my edit]
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt
<end restore>

Your claims about grass fed beef are debunked as lies.

>>>snip rest

>>
>> Yes, of course you will, because you're a lying pro-meat
>> propagandist who will always cover up and snip away
>> the facts concerning meat.

>
>snip


Yes, of course you would, because you're a lying coward
who cannot face the logic which proves your claims
concerning the beef you eat invalid.
<restore>

Also, just because the production of the beef you allegedly
eat allegedly uses no grains at all, to then conclude that the
production of it causes no CDs, as you do in these two
statements;

"The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period."

and

"The production of the beef I eat causes no CDs."
rick etter Nov 15 2003 http://tinyurl.com/cpdy7

denies the antecedent, as follows;

1) If the steers I eat are fed grains, then the production of my beef causes CD.
2) The steers I eat are not fed grains.
therefore
3) "the production of my beef causes no CDs"
<end restore>

Snipping away evidence from the USDA which proves
my case while dismantling yours isn't going to get you
very far because it's ever so easy to copy and paste it
all back in again.
  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default vegan dishonesty on display...


"Derek" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:45:30 GMT, "rick" > wrote:

snip..

>>>>>>> You've lied about grass fed beef, despite evidence from
>>>>>>> USDA that proves you've lied and continuing to lie.
>>>>>>=========================
>>>>>>Nope
>>>>>
>>>>> Evidence from USDA shows that you have, which is
>>>>> why you keep snipping it away at EVERY turn.
>>>>==========================
>>>>Fool, YOU have no evidence from the USDA about where my beef
>>>>comes from.
>>>
>>> The evidence from USDA shows us that so-called
>>> grass fed beef can be and is fed grains. I didn't say
>>> USDA has evidence of where your alleged beef
>>> comes from.

>>========================
>>Thanks for admitting that you have been lying about the beef I
>>eat, fool.

>
> I've admitted no such thing. I've never claimed that the
> USDA has evidence of where you get your meat.

====================
Yes, you did.


My
> use of the USDA's material is to show that

================
You are an ignorant fool that can't read or understand the
egnglish language.


, contrary to
> your unsupported assertions, "Products that passed an
> inspection could carry a “USDA Process Verified” shield
> next to the label “grass fed” if as little as 80 percent of the
> feed were grass, with no limits on the other 20 percent."
> ======================================

Show me a product that carries that seal, fool.





snip ytipical ignorant spew that lacks any logic or sense...


  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Posts: 315
Default vegan dishonesty on display...


"Derek" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:46:28 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>"Derek" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:11:05 GMT, "rick" >
>>> wrote:
>>>>"Anon" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>> Rick, are you saying that you hunt for your meat?
>>>>> ===========================
>>>>No. I do have quite a few pounds of venison in the freezer
>>>>though. What the idiot dereck doesn't want to tlk about is
>>>>that the beef I eat is raised right down the road.
>>>
>>> That's a lie; I've been trying to get you to address
>>> the logical error in your argument concerning the
>>> beef you claim to eat for nearly three years since
>>> you declared;

>>==============================
>>Nope, you just admitted in the next post that you have lying
>>about the beef I eat.

>
> That's another obvious lie. Nowhere have I ever admitted
> that I've lied about the beef you eat.

===========================
Yes, you did.


>
>>> "The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period."
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> "The production of the beef I eat causes no CDs."
>>> rick etter Nov 15 2003 http://tinyurl.com/cpdy7
>>>
>>> Explain why vegans cannot make the same claim,
>>> that the production of their cabbages they see
>>> growing in fields on their way to work each morning
>>> doesn't cause or promote CDs, hypocrite?

>
> You've failed to address this question, and it's obvious
> why.

=====================
It's been done, many times fool. Your cabbages aren't just out
there growing. They were plowed, seeded, sprayed. probabbly
several times... Each of those steps in the production of that
cabbage requires massive inputs from your beloved petro-chemical
industry and death and suffering of animals. No such occurances
apply for the production of my grass-fed beef. You're a liar,
proven time and again, killer.


>
>>>>No grains, no
>>>>antobiotics, no hormones. When slaughter time comes, the
>>>>processor is just a few miles away, and then right to my
>>>>house.
>>>>The whole process takes place right within my area.
>>>
>>> That's no reason to insist that the production of beef
>>> you eat doesn't cause CDs, because doing so denies
>>> the antecedent as in;

=========================
Nope. You're an ignorant fool...

>>>
>>> 1) If the steers I eat are fed grains and given drugs, then
>>> the production of my beef causes CD.
>>> 2) The steers I eat are not fed grains or given drugs
>>> therefore
>>> 3) "the production of my beef causes no CDs"
>>>===========================

that's your illogic. I never claimed that only because the beef
I eat is not fed grain is the reason for no CDs during its
production. Too bad your strawmen can't stand up on their own,
eh hypocrite?


>>> You don't follow that cattle around all day, and
>>> there's no reason to believe that beef doesn't
>>> cause any CDs while every other food item,
>>> according to you, causes millions.

>
> And this.

======================
And, you're still an ignorant fool... How's that, killer?


  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Posts: 315
Default vegan is religion..


"Anon" > wrote in message
...
> Rick, you ignored large parts of what I wrote.

=========================
No, I didn't. The only things I snipped were you original rants
about god, karma, animal 'brothers and sisters' and ignorant spew
as that.

Snipping them does not mean
> that I never asked.

======================
What questions did I snip, fool?

Until you reply to those points, I won't continue this
> conversation. If you can't respond to them, then I've made my
> point and there is no reason to continue.

========================
Cut and run then fool. You didn't posts anything in the first
post to respond to.
I answered every question you asked. You can't defend your
idiocy, so you're running...




Here's a list of your "questions"
Please explain how I am hypocritical and how you can imply that
killing
animals for entertainment means nothing to me.

I wanted to ask you a few questions. Do you call me a killer
because I use
plastic products or because I use soap that has animal
ingredients in it?
Is this your reasoning?

If the only things neccessary for my survial are produced
in a way that kills animals and I use these things, then I
think
that's different than me eating a steak. The difference is that
I'm
doing whatever I can to cause as little harm as possilble. Can
we agree
on this?

What are you defining as animal? Certainly not insects. Mice?

Rick, are you saying that you hunt for your meat?


And, if you are hunting your food and beleive that your meat is
not causing
the excess harm because it does not eat grain produced by typical
commerical
methods, then you need to use a comparable analogy.
If you're just taking meat from nature, then compare that to jsut
taking
plants and grains from nature. We live in a world where for most
people
this just isn't possible. Do youunderstnd tyhe concept of doing
what you
can?



That's it. each and every question of yours that I found, and
each and every one was replied to. If you can show a post where
i missed any of your questions, or snipped it away, be my guest.
Otherwise, I'd have to think you're lying...




You failed to answer these questions put to you. Why is that?
Now, let's see how fast you run, killer.



Hey fool, how do you explain those bloody hands of yours?

No more than you. the difference is that I don't claim killing
animals to eat them is bad, you do.
You tell us that while contibuting to animal death and suffering.
Very cruel and brutal animal deaths.
Why is that? You just like blood on your hands or what?

How many
animals died from the plowing, spraying, seeding, and harvesting
those beans into something you can eat?

I never include bugs, but if mice are not animals, then why all
the fake concern about them when used in labs?

There is NO requiremnt to feed cattle ANY grains. Why do vegans
always ignore that little fact?

Grass-fed beef is a better option that what vegans do now in
eating all their exotic, imported foods and spices. Of course,
vegans here have proven, over and over, their love for the
petro-chemical industy. Why is that?








>
>
> "rick" > wrote in message
> k.net...
>>
>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>> I still think I'm right, even if karma were not an issue. It
>>> takes more grain to feed cattle in order to eat cattle that
>>> it would take if we just ate the grain.

>> ============================
>> There is NO requiremnt to feed cattle ANY grains. Why do
>> vegans always ignore that little fact?
>>
>>
>> If a given amount of suffering is caused by producing grain,
>>> then that amount would increase if we look at the amount of
>>> grain it takes to produce one pound of beef. I don't
>>> understand how you can argue with that.

>> ================================
>> Easy, there is no such requirement to feed cattle any grain.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> And, if you are hunting your food and beleive that your meat
>>> is not causing the excess harm because it does not eat grain
>>> produced by typical commerical methods, then you need to use
>>> a comparable analogy.

>> ==============================
>> No, All I need is to compare it to the vegan that claims that
>> by following na simple rule for their simple mind, 'eat no
>> meat,' that they are somehow doing something.
>>
>>
>>> If you're just taking meat from nature, then compare that to
>>> jsut taking plants and grains from nature. We live in a
>>> world where for most people this just isn't possible. Do
>>> youunderstnd tyhe concept of doing what you can?

>> ==============================
>> Yes, I do. Apparenetly you don't understand anything past
>> vegan brainwashing. Grass-fed beef is a viable option.
>> Completely available to anyone that wants it. You do realize
>> don't you that ALL beef cattle are grazed for most of their
>> lives? And then only 3/4 of those go to feed lots. One needs
>> not adopt an odd or unusual diet to do 'better.'
>> Grass-fed beef is a better option that what vegans do now in
>> eating all their exotic, imported foods and spices. Of
>> course, vegans here have proven, over and over, their love for
>> the petro-chemical industy. Why is that?
>>
>>
>>>
>>> "rick" > wrote in message
>>> ink.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> There is a karmic consequence regardless of whether or not
>>>>> your meat causes more harm than my lentils. Ignore at your
>>>>> own peril.
>>>> ======================
>>>> Thanks for proving it yet again...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "rick" > wrote in message
>>>>> ink.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eh? Where did the term 'murder' come from? One cannot
>>>>>>>> murder animals. We can, and do, kill them. But murder
>>>>>>>> is not what takes place.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm sorry. You did not use the word murder. I should
>>>>>>> have gone back and read more carefully.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why? At least eating a steak is a survival need.
>>>>>>>> Killing animals for usenet entertainment is not.
>>>>>>>> So, you then subsitute that steak with a tofu roast.
>>>>>>>> How many animals died from the plowing, spraying,
>>>>>>>> seeding, and harvesting those beans into something you
>>>>>>>> can eat? The beef I eat produces 100s of meals with
>>>>>>>> just the one death.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eating a steak is not a survival need. Eating is a
>>>>>>> survival need. Even if one cow produced 100s of meals,
>>>>>>> the cow ate 5-7 lbs of grain per pound of beef. The
>>>>>>> plowing, spraying, seeding, and harvesting applies to
>>>>>>> those also.
>>>>>> ===================
>>>>>> Try reading again. The beef I eat does is not fed ANY
>>>>>> grains or crops. Thanks for proving once again the
>>>>>> closed-minded mantra of usenet vegans.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are you defining as animal? Certainly not insects.
>>>>>>> Mice?
>>>>>> =======================
>>>>>> I never include bugs, but if mice are not animals, then
>>>>>> why all the fake concern about them when used in labs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No. Abstaining from meat in no way automatically means
>>>>>>>> you are doing 'better' than eating any type of
>>>>>>>> meat-included diet. Have you even bothered to compare
>>>>>>>> the foods you eat with each other? I doubt it. No vegan
>>>>>>>> here on usenet has even thought of it because the
>>>>>>>> religion has told you that all you need do is avoid
>>>>>>>> meats.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't understand how comparing my diet to other vegans
>>>>>>> (I am not vegan by the way) would affect anything. Why
>>>>>>> would it matter what they ate?
>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>> Again, try reading for comprhension. vegans should
>>>>>> compare the foods they eat. Not to other vegans, but
>>>>>> between foods. What crops cause more/less death and
>>>>>> suffering? Rice? potatoes? brocolli? bananas? vegans
>>>>>> don't know, and more importantly, they don't care! All
>>>>>> they want is to spew and rant about what they think others
>>>>>> are doing. If they want to have an impact, they should
>>>>>> first start with what THEY eat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point is, no matter how you look at it, sticking to a
>>>>>>> vegan diet does less harm than eating beef or other farm
>>>>>>> animal. Please tell me why this is not true.
>>>>>> ==============================
>>>>>> Becuase all the crops you eat are causing massive deaths
>>>>>> and suffering to animals. tell me how much collateral
>>>>>> death is associated with game meats. As long as there is
>>>>>> an exapmle, the automatic gains vegans claims are just a
>>>>>> delusion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, please explain what animals I am killing by posting
>>>>>>> on Usenet and how I am contributing to their deaths by
>>>>>>> posting here.
>>>>>> ========================
>>>>>> Lookup power generation/distribution and communications.
>>>>>> Study the Hudson River estuary. It's estimated that the 3
>>>>>> power plants there kill 3 billion fish. That's just 3
>>>>>> power generators out of 13000+ in the US. Estimates range
>>>>>> from 3 to 8% of power used by the internet. Millions upon
>>>>>> millions of birds are kill by towers every year. Learn
>>>>>> some facts about your entire lifestyle. Diet has a small
>>>>>> impact overall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>



  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
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Posts: 17
Default vegan is religion..

Rick, you ignored large parts of what I wrote. Snipping them does not mean
that I never asked. Until you reply to those points, I won't continue this
conversation. If you can't respond to them, then I've made my point and
there is no reason to continue.


"rick" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Anon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Rick,
>>
>> I still think I'm right, even if karma were not an issue. It takes more
>> grain to feed cattle in order to eat cattle that it would take if we just
>> ate the grain.

> ============================
> There is NO requiremnt to feed cattle ANY grains. Why do vegans always
> ignore that little fact?
>
>
> If a given amount of suffering is caused by producing grain,
>> then that amount would increase if we look at the amount of grain it
>> takes to produce one pound of beef. I don't understand how you can argue
>> with that.

> ================================
> Easy, there is no such requirement to feed cattle any grain.
>
>
>>
>> And, if you are hunting your food and beleive that your meat is not
>> causing the excess harm because it does not eat grain produced by typical
>> commerical methods, then you need to use a comparable analogy.

> ==============================
> No, All I need is to compare it to the vegan that claims that by following
> na simple rule for their simple mind, 'eat no meat,' that they are somehow
> doing something.
>
>
>> If you're just taking meat from nature, then compare that to jsut taking
>> plants and grains from nature. We live in a world where for most people
>> this just isn't possible. Do youunderstnd tyhe concept of doing what you
>> can?

> ==============================
> Yes, I do. Apparenetly you don't understand anything past vegan
> brainwashing. Grass-fed beef is a viable option. Completely available to
> anyone that wants it. You do realize don't you that ALL beef cattle are
> grazed for most of their lives? And then only 3/4 of those go to feed
> lots. One needs not adopt an odd or unusual diet to do 'better.'
> Grass-fed beef is a better option that what vegans do now in eating all
> their exotic, imported foods and spices. Of course, vegans here have
> proven, over and over, their love for the petro-chemical industy. Why is
> that?
>
>
>>
>> "rick" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>>>
>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> There is a karmic consequence regardless of whether or not your meat
>>>> causes more harm than my lentils. Ignore at your own peril.
>>> ======================
>>> Thanks for proving it yet again...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "rick" > wrote in message
>>>> ink.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eh? Where did the term 'murder' come from? One cannot murder
>>>>>>> animals. We can, and do, kill them. But murder is not what takes
>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry. You did not use the word murder. I should have gone back
>>>>>> and read more carefully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why? At least eating a steak is a survival need. Killing animals
>>>>>>> for usenet entertainment is not.
>>>>>>> So, you then subsitute that steak with a tofu roast. How many
>>>>>>> animals died from the plowing, spraying, seeding, and harvesting
>>>>>>> those beans into something you can eat? The beef I eat produces
>>>>>>> 100s of meals with just the one death.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eating a steak is not a survival need. Eating is a survival need.
>>>>>> Even if one cow produced 100s of meals, the cow ate 5-7 lbs of grain
>>>>>> per pound of beef. The plowing, spraying, seeding, and harvesting
>>>>>> applies to those also.
>>>>> ===================
>>>>> Try reading again. The beef I eat does is not fed ANY grains or
>>>>> crops. Thanks for proving once again the closed-minded mantra of
>>>>> usenet vegans.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are you defining as animal? Certainly not insects. Mice?
>>>>> =======================
>>>>> I never include bugs, but if mice are not animals, then why all the
>>>>> fake concern about them when used in labs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No. Abstaining from meat in no way automatically means you are
>>>>>>> doing 'better' than eating any type of meat-included diet. Have you
>>>>>>> even bothered to compare the foods you eat with each other? I doubt
>>>>>>> it. No vegan here on usenet has even thought of it because the
>>>>>>> religion has told you that all you need do is avoid meats.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't understand how comparing my diet to other vegans (I am not
>>>>>> vegan by the way) would affect anything. Why would it matter what
>>>>>> they ate?
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> Again, try reading for comprhension. vegans should compare the foods
>>>>> they eat. Not to other vegans, but between foods. What crops cause
>>>>> more/less death and suffering? Rice? potatoes? brocolli? bananas?
>>>>> vegans don't know, and more importantly, they don't care! All they
>>>>> want is to spew and rant about what they think others are doing. If
>>>>> they want to have an impact, they should first start with what THEY
>>>>> eat.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The point is, no matter how you look at it, sticking to a vegan diet
>>>>>> does less harm than eating beef or other farm animal. Please tell me
>>>>>> why this is not true.
>>>>> ==============================
>>>>> Becuase all the crops you eat are causing massive deaths and suffering
>>>>> to animals. tell me how much collateral death is associated with game
>>>>> meats. As long as there is an exapmle, the automatic gains vegans
>>>>> claims are just a delusion.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, please explain what animals I am killing by posting on Usenet
>>>>>> and how I am contributing to their deaths by posting here.
>>>>> ========================
>>>>> Lookup power generation/distribution and communications. Study the
>>>>> Hudson River estuary. It's estimated that the 3 power plants there
>>>>> kill 3 billion fish. That's just 3 power generators out of 13000+ in
>>>>> the US. Estimates range from 3 to 8% of power used by the internet.
>>>>> Millions upon millions of birds are kill by towers every year. Learn
>>>>> some facts about your entire lifestyle. Diet has a small impact
>>>>> overall.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>





  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
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Posts: 215
Default vegan dishonesty on display...

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:54:23 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>"Derek" > wrote in message ...
>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:46:28 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>>"Derek" > wrote in message ...
>>>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:11:05 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>>>>"Anon" > wrote in message ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rick, are you saying that you hunt for your meat?
>>>>>> ===========================
>>>>>No. I do have quite a few pounds of venison in the freezer
>>>>>though. What the idiot dereck doesn't want to tlk about is
>>>>>that the beef I eat is raised right down the road.
>>>>
>>>> That's a lie; I've been trying to get you to address
>>>> the logical error in your argument concerning the
>>>> beef you claim to eat for nearly three years since
>>>> you declared;
>>>==============================
>>>Nope, you just admitted in the next post that you have lying
>>>about the beef I eat.

>>
>> That's another obvious lie. Nowhere have I ever admitted
>> that I've lied about the beef you eat.

>===========================
>Yes, you did.


No, I didn't, and if you had any proof that I did you would
produce a link to where I admitted to lying about the beef
you eat.

>>>> "The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period."
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>
>>>> "The production of the beef I eat causes no CDs."
>>>> rick etter Nov 15 2003 http://tinyurl.com/cpdy7
>>>>
>>>> Explain why vegans cannot make the same claim,
>>>> that the production of their cabbages they see
>>>> growing in fields on their way to work each morning
>>>> doesn't cause or promote CDs, hypocrite?

>>
>> You've failed to address this question, and it's obvious
>> why.

>=====================
>It's been done, many times fool. Your cabbages aren't just out
>there growing. They were plowed, seeded, sprayed.


Similarly, I might say, "The grass-fed beef animals you allegedly
eat aren't just out there growing; the steers are fed grain according
to the USDA's claims standard and fed antibiotics, require fuels to
process, refrigerate and be transported to customers, and thereby
cause collateral deaths like any other grain-fed steer. If you're
going to insist that the production of your food item[s] doesn't
cause any collateral deaths while insisting all vegan foods cause
them, you leave yourself open to the criticism of hypocrisy.

>>>>>No grains, no
>>>>>antobiotics, no hormones. When slaughter time comes, the
>>>>>processor is just a few miles away, and then right to my
>>>>>house. The whole process takes place right within my area.
>>>>
>>>> That's no reason to insist that the production of beef
>>>> you eat doesn't cause CDs, because doing so denies
>>>> the antecedent as in;

>=========================
>Nope.


Absolutely yes, and there's nothing you can do to change that
except concede and accept the fact that your argument is
specious.

>>>> 1) If the steers I eat are fed grains and given drugs, then
>>>> the production of my beef causes CD.
>>>> 2) The steers I eat are not fed grains or given drugs
>>>> therefore
>>>> 3) "the production of my beef causes no CDs"
>>>>===========================

>that's your illogic.


It's a syllogism based on your argument. The conclusion is
your own quote.

>I never claimed that only because the beef
>I eat is not fed grain is the reason for no CDs during its
>production.


Then explain why you asserted just a few lines up, "No grains,
no antibiotics, no hormones. When slaughter time comes, the
processor is just a few miles away, and then right to my house.
The whole process takes place right within my area.", if not to
give the impression that because of those production methods
the production of the beef you eat causes no collateral deaths.

>>>> You don't follow that cattle around all day, and
>>>> there's no reason to believe that beef doesn't
>>>> cause any CDs while every other food item,
>>>> according to you, causes millions.

>>
>> And this.

>======================
>And, you're still an ignorant fool


Are you going to declare that you DO follow that cattle
around all day, then?
  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 215
Default vegan dishonesty on display...

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 18:49:25 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>"Derek" > wrote in message ...
>> On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:45:30 GMT, "rick" > wrote:


>>snip..
>>>>>>>> You've lied about grass fed beef, despite evidence from
>>>>>>>> USDA that proves you've lied and continuing to lie.
>>>>>>>=========================
>>>>>>>Nope
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Evidence from USDA shows that you have, which is
>>>>>> why you keep snipping it away at EVERY turn.
>>>>>==========================
>>>>>Fool, YOU have no evidence from the USDA about where my beef
>>>>>comes from.
>>>>
>>>> The evidence from USDA shows us that so-called
>>>> grass fed beef can be and is fed grains. I didn't say
>>>> USDA has evidence of where your alleged beef
>>>> comes from.
>>>========================
>>>Thanks for admitting that you have been lying about the beef I
>>>eat, fool.

>>
>> I've admitted no such thing. I've never claimed that the
>> USDA has evidence of where you get your meat.

>====================
>Yes, you did.


This is laughable. Show where I claimed that the USDA has
evidence of where you get your meat.

>> My use of the USDA's material is to show that, contrary to
>> your unsupported assertions, "Products that passed an
>> inspection could carry a “USDA Process Verified” shield
>> next to the label “grass fed” if as little as 80 percent of the
>> feed were grass, with no limits on the other 20 percent."
>> ======================================

>Show me a product that carries that seal, fool.


Are you now going to insist that so-called grass-fed beef
producers don't take advantage of the USDA's shield?

>snip


<re-restore>
Also, just because the production of the beef you allegedly
eat allegedly uses no grains at all, to then conclude that the
production of it causes no CDs, as you do in these two
statements;

"The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period."

and

"The production of the beef I eat causes no CDs."
rick etter Nov 15 2003 http://tinyurl.com/cpdy7

denies the antecedent, as follows;

1) If the steers I eat are fed grains, then the production of my beef causes CD.
2) The steers I eat are not fed grains.
therefore
3) "the production of my beef causes no CDs"
<end restore>

Snipping away evidence from the USDA which proves
my case while dismantling yours isn't going to get you
very far because it's ever so easy to copy and paste it
all back in again.
  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 315
Default vegan is religion..


"Anon" > wrote in message
...
> Rick, arguing with a fool is a waste of time.

===========================
The fool here is you. You are the one not answering questions,
nor defending anything you say. thanks for proving you have
nothing to add but ignorance and religion...

He either can't understand
> that he's wrong or he'll never admit it. I'm done with this,
> but I'll be waiting for your inevitable reply.

================================
LOL Run away little one. I see you can't refute the fact that I
answered every one of your questions, and that you ignored the
ones I asked. Why then did you feel the need to ly about that?
Figured out have you that you have nothing to defend your
so-called argument?


>
>
>
>
> "rick" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Rick, you ignored large parts of what I wrote.

>> =========================
>> No, I didn't. The only things I snipped were you original
>> rants about god, karma, animal 'brothers and sisters' and
>> ignorant spew as that.
>>
>> Snipping them does not mean
>>> that I never asked.

>> ======================
>> What questions did I snip, fool?
>>
>> Until you reply to those points, I won't continue this
>>> conversation. If you can't respond to them, then I've made
>>> my point and there is no reason to continue.

>> ========================
>> Cut and run then fool. You didn't posts anything in the first
>> post to respond to.
>> I answered every question you asked. You can't defend your
>> idiocy, so you're running...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Here's a list of your "questions"
>> Please explain how I am hypocritical and how you can imply
>> that killing
>> animals for entertainment means nothing to me.
>>
>> I wanted to ask you a few questions. Do you call me a killer
>> because I use
>> plastic products or because I use soap that has animal
>> ingredients in it?
>> Is this your reasoning?
>>
>> If the only things neccessary for my survial are produced
>> in a way that kills animals and I use these things, then I
>> think
>> that's different than me eating a steak. The difference is
>> that I'm
>> doing whatever I can to cause as little harm as possilble.
>> Can we agree
>> on this?
>>
>> What are you defining as animal? Certainly not insects.
>> Mice?
>>
>> Rick, are you saying that you hunt for your meat?
>>
>>
>> And, if you are hunting your food and beleive that your meat
>> is not causing
>> the excess harm because it does not eat grain produced by
>> typical commerical
>> methods, then you need to use a comparable analogy.
>> If you're just taking meat from nature, then compare that to
>> jsut taking
>> plants and grains from nature. We live in a world where for
>> most people
>> this just isn't possible. Do youunderstnd tyhe concept of
>> doing what you
>> can?
>>
>>
>>
>> That's it. each and every question of yours that I found, and
>> each and every one was replied to. If you can show a post
>> where i missed any of your questions, or snipped it away, be
>> my guest. Otherwise, I'd have to think you're lying...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You failed to answer these questions put to you. Why is that?
>> Now, let's see how fast you run, killer.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey fool, how do you explain those bloody hands of yours?
>>
>> No more than you. the difference is that I don't claim
>> killing
>> animals to eat them is bad, you do.
>> You tell us that while contibuting to animal death and
>> suffering.
>> Very cruel and brutal animal deaths.
>> Why is that? You just like blood on your hands or what?
>>
>> How many
>> animals died from the plowing, spraying, seeding, and
>> harvesting
>> those beans into something you can eat?
>>
>> I never include bugs, but if mice are not animals, then why
>> all
>> the fake concern about them when used in labs?
>>
>> There is NO requiremnt to feed cattle ANY grains. Why do
>> vegans
>> always ignore that little fact?
>>
>> Grass-fed beef is a better option that what vegans do now in
>> eating all their exotic, imported foods and spices. Of
>> course,
>> vegans here have proven, over and over, their love for the
>> petro-chemical industy. Why is that?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "rick" > wrote in message
>>> k.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>
>>>>> I still think I'm right, even if karma were not an issue.
>>>>> It takes more grain to feed cattle in order to eat cattle
>>>>> that it would take if we just ate the grain.
>>>> ============================
>>>> There is NO requiremnt to feed cattle ANY grains. Why do
>>>> vegans always ignore that little fact?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If a given amount of suffering is caused by producing
>>>> grain,
>>>>> then that amount would increase if we look at the amount of
>>>>> grain it takes to produce one pound of beef. I don't
>>>>> understand how you can argue with that.
>>>> ================================
>>>> Easy, there is no such requirement to feed cattle any grain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And, if you are hunting your food and beleive that your
>>>>> meat is not causing the excess harm because it does not eat
>>>>> grain produced by typical commerical methods, then you need
>>>>> to use a comparable analogy.
>>>> ==============================
>>>> No, All I need is to compare it to the vegan that claims
>>>> that by following na simple rule for their simple mind, 'eat
>>>> no meat,' that they are somehow doing something.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If you're just taking meat from nature, then compare that
>>>>> to jsut taking plants and grains from nature. We live in a
>>>>> world where for most people this just isn't possible. Do
>>>>> youunderstnd tyhe concept of doing what you can?
>>>> ==============================
>>>> Yes, I do. Apparenetly you don't understand anything past
>>>> vegan brainwashing. Grass-fed beef is a viable option.
>>>> Completely available to anyone that wants it. You do
>>>> realize don't you that ALL beef cattle are grazed for most
>>>> of their lives? And then only 3/4 of those go to feed lots.
>>>> One needs not adopt an odd or unusual diet to do 'better.'
>>>> Grass-fed beef is a better option that what vegans do now in
>>>> eating all their exotic, imported foods and spices. Of
>>>> course, vegans here have proven, over and over, their love
>>>> for the petro-chemical industy. Why is that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "rick" > wrote in message
>>>>> ink.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> There is a karmic consequence regardless of whether or
>>>>>>> not your meat causes more harm than my lentils. Ignore
>>>>>>> at your own peril.
>>>>>> ======================
>>>>>> Thanks for proving it yet again...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "rick" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ink.net...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eh? Where did the term 'murder' come from? One
>>>>>>>>>> cannot murder animals. We can, and do, kill them. But
>>>>>>>>>> murder is not what takes place.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry. You did not use the word murder. I should
>>>>>>>>> have gone back and read more carefully.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why? At least eating a steak is a survival need.
>>>>>>>>>> Killing animals for usenet entertainment is not.
>>>>>>>>>> So, you then subsitute that steak with a tofu roast.
>>>>>>>>>> How many animals died from the plowing, spraying,
>>>>>>>>>> seeding, and harvesting those beans into something you
>>>>>>>>>> can eat? The beef I eat produces 100s of meals with
>>>>>>>>>> just the one death.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eating a steak is not a survival need. Eating is a
>>>>>>>>> survival need. Even if one cow produced 100s of meals,
>>>>>>>>> the cow ate 5-7 lbs of grain per pound of beef. The
>>>>>>>>> plowing, spraying, seeding, and harvesting applies to
>>>>>>>>> those also.
>>>>>>>> ===================
>>>>>>>> Try reading again. The beef I eat does is not fed ANY
>>>>>>>> grains or crops. Thanks for proving once again the
>>>>>>>> closed-minded mantra of usenet vegans.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What are you defining as animal? Certainly not
>>>>>>>>> insects. Mice?
>>>>>>>> =======================
>>>>>>>> I never include bugs, but if mice are not animals, then
>>>>>>>> why all the fake concern about them when used in labs?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No. Abstaining from meat in no way automatically
>>>>>>>>>> means you are doing 'better' than eating any type of
>>>>>>>>>> meat-included diet. Have you even bothered to compare
>>>>>>>>>> the foods you eat with each other? I doubt it. No
>>>>>>>>>> vegan here on usenet has even thought of it because
>>>>>>>>>> the religion has told you that all you need do is
>>>>>>>>>> avoid meats.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't understand how comparing my diet to other
>>>>>>>>> vegans (I am not vegan by the way) would affect
>>>>>>>>> anything. Why would it matter what they ate?
>>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>>> Again, try reading for comprhension. vegans should
>>>>>>>> compare the foods they eat. Not to other vegans, but
>>>>>>>> between foods. What crops cause more/less death and
>>>>>>>> suffering? Rice? potatoes? brocolli? bananas? vegans
>>>>>>>> don't know, and more importantly, they don't care! All
>>>>>>>> they want is to spew and rant about what they think
>>>>>>>> others are doing. If they want to have an impact, they
>>>>>>>> should first start with what THEY eat.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The point is, no matter how you look at it, sticking to
>>>>>>>>> a vegan diet does less harm than eating beef or other
>>>>>>>>> farm animal. Please tell me why this is not true.
>>>>>>>> ==============================
>>>>>>>> Becuase all the crops you eat are causing massive deaths
>>>>>>>> and suffering to animals. tell me how much collateral
>>>>>>>> death is associated with game meats. As long as there is
>>>>>>>> an exapmle, the automatic gains vegans claims are just a
>>>>>>>> delusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, please explain what animals I am killing by
>>>>>>>>> posting on Usenet and how I am contributing to their
>>>>>>>>> deaths by posting here.
>>>>>>>> ========================
>>>>>>>> Lookup power generation/distribution and communications.
>>>>>>>> Study the Hudson River estuary. It's estimated that the
>>>>>>>> 3 power plants there kill 3 billion fish. That's just 3
>>>>>>>> power generators out of 13000+ in the US. Estimates
>>>>>>>> range from 3 to 8% of power used by the internet.
>>>>>>>> Millions upon millions of birds are kill by towers every
>>>>>>>> year. Learn some facts about your entire lifestyle.
>>>>>>>> Diet has a small impact overall.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>



  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default vegan is religion..

Rick, arguing with a fool is a waste of time. He either can't understand
that he's wrong or he'll never admit it. I'm done with this, but I'll be
waiting for your inevitable reply.




"rick" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Anon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Rick, you ignored large parts of what I wrote.

> =========================
> No, I didn't. The only things I snipped were you original rants about
> god, karma, animal 'brothers and sisters' and ignorant spew as that.
>
> Snipping them does not mean
>> that I never asked.

> ======================
> What questions did I snip, fool?
>
> Until you reply to those points, I won't continue this
>> conversation. If you can't respond to them, then I've made my point and
>> there is no reason to continue.

> ========================
> Cut and run then fool. You didn't posts anything in the first post to
> respond to.
> I answered every question you asked. You can't defend your idiocy, so
> you're running...
>
>
>
>
> Here's a list of your "questions"
> Please explain how I am hypocritical and how you can imply that killing
> animals for entertainment means nothing to me.
>
> I wanted to ask you a few questions. Do you call me a killer because I
> use
> plastic products or because I use soap that has animal ingredients in it?
> Is this your reasoning?
>
> If the only things neccessary for my survial are produced
> in a way that kills animals and I use these things, then I think
> that's different than me eating a steak. The difference is that I'm
> doing whatever I can to cause as little harm as possilble. Can we agree
> on this?
>
> What are you defining as animal? Certainly not insects. Mice?
>
> Rick, are you saying that you hunt for your meat?
>
>
> And, if you are hunting your food and beleive that your meat is not
> causing
> the excess harm because it does not eat grain produced by typical
> commerical
> methods, then you need to use a comparable analogy.
> If you're just taking meat from nature, then compare that to jsut taking
> plants and grains from nature. We live in a world where for most people
> this just isn't possible. Do youunderstnd tyhe concept of doing what you
> can?
>
>
>
> That's it. each and every question of yours that I found, and each and
> every one was replied to. If you can show a post where i missed any of
> your questions, or snipped it away, be my guest. Otherwise, I'd have to
> think you're lying...
>
>
>
>
> You failed to answer these questions put to you. Why is that?
> Now, let's see how fast you run, killer.
>
>
>
> Hey fool, how do you explain those bloody hands of yours?
>
> No more than you. the difference is that I don't claim killing
> animals to eat them is bad, you do.
> You tell us that while contibuting to animal death and suffering.
> Very cruel and brutal animal deaths.
> Why is that? You just like blood on your hands or what?
>
> How many
> animals died from the plowing, spraying, seeding, and harvesting
> those beans into something you can eat?
>
> I never include bugs, but if mice are not animals, then why all
> the fake concern about them when used in labs?
>
> There is NO requiremnt to feed cattle ANY grains. Why do vegans
> always ignore that little fact?
>
> Grass-fed beef is a better option that what vegans do now in
> eating all their exotic, imported foods and spices. Of course,
> vegans here have proven, over and over, their love for the
> petro-chemical industy. Why is that?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> "rick" > wrote in message
>> k.net...
>>>
>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Rick,
>>>>
>>>> I still think I'm right, even if karma were not an issue. It takes
>>>> more grain to feed cattle in order to eat cattle that it would take if
>>>> we just ate the grain.
>>> ============================
>>> There is NO requiremnt to feed cattle ANY grains. Why do vegans always
>>> ignore that little fact?
>>>
>>>
>>> If a given amount of suffering is caused by producing grain,
>>>> then that amount would increase if we look at the amount of grain it
>>>> takes to produce one pound of beef. I don't understand how you can
>>>> argue with that.
>>> ================================
>>> Easy, there is no such requirement to feed cattle any grain.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And, if you are hunting your food and beleive that your meat is not
>>>> causing the excess harm because it does not eat grain produced by
>>>> typical commerical methods, then you need to use a comparable analogy.
>>> ==============================
>>> No, All I need is to compare it to the vegan that claims that by
>>> following na simple rule for their simple mind, 'eat no meat,' that they
>>> are somehow doing something.
>>>
>>>
>>>> If you're just taking meat from nature, then compare that to jsut
>>>> taking plants and grains from nature. We live in a world where for
>>>> most people this just isn't possible. Do youunderstnd tyhe concept of
>>>> doing what you can?
>>> ==============================
>>> Yes, I do. Apparenetly you don't understand anything past vegan
>>> brainwashing. Grass-fed beef is a viable option. Completely available
>>> to anyone that wants it. You do realize don't you that ALL beef cattle
>>> are grazed for most of their lives? And then only 3/4 of those go to
>>> feed lots. One needs not adopt an odd or unusual diet to do 'better.'
>>> Grass-fed beef is a better option that what vegans do now in eating all
>>> their exotic, imported foods and spices. Of course, vegans here have
>>> proven, over and over, their love for the petro-chemical industy. Why
>>> is that?
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "rick" > wrote in message
>>>> ink.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> There is a karmic consequence regardless of whether or not your meat
>>>>>> causes more harm than my lentils. Ignore at your own peril.
>>>>> ======================
>>>>> Thanks for proving it yet again...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "rick" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ink.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eh? Where did the term 'murder' come from? One cannot murder
>>>>>>>>> animals. We can, and do, kill them. But murder is not what takes
>>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm sorry. You did not use the word murder. I should have gone
>>>>>>>> back and read more carefully.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why? At least eating a steak is a survival need. Killing animals
>>>>>>>>> for usenet entertainment is not.
>>>>>>>>> So, you then subsitute that steak with a tofu roast. How many
>>>>>>>>> animals died from the plowing, spraying, seeding, and harvesting
>>>>>>>>> those beans into something you can eat? The beef I eat produces
>>>>>>>>> 100s of meals with just the one death.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eating a steak is not a survival need. Eating is a survival need.
>>>>>>>> Even if one cow produced 100s of meals, the cow ate 5-7 lbs of
>>>>>>>> grain per pound of beef. The plowing, spraying, seeding, and
>>>>>>>> harvesting applies to those also.
>>>>>>> ===================
>>>>>>> Try reading again. The beef I eat does is not fed ANY grains or
>>>>>>> crops. Thanks for proving once again the closed-minded mantra of
>>>>>>> usenet vegans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What are you defining as animal? Certainly not insects. Mice?
>>>>>>> =======================
>>>>>>> I never include bugs, but if mice are not animals, then why all the
>>>>>>> fake concern about them when used in labs?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No. Abstaining from meat in no way automatically means you are
>>>>>>>>> doing 'better' than eating any type of meat-included diet. Have
>>>>>>>>> you even bothered to compare the foods you eat with each other? I
>>>>>>>>> doubt it. No vegan here on usenet has even thought of it because
>>>>>>>>> the religion has told you that all you need do is avoid meats.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't understand how comparing my diet to other vegans (I am not
>>>>>>>> vegan by the way) would affect anything. Why would it matter what
>>>>>>>> they ate?
>>>>>>> =========================
>>>>>>> Again, try reading for comprhension. vegans should compare the
>>>>>>> foods they eat. Not to other vegans, but between foods. What crops
>>>>>>> cause more/less death and suffering? Rice? potatoes? brocolli?
>>>>>>> bananas? vegans don't know, and more importantly, they don't care!
>>>>>>> All they want is to spew and rant about what they think others are
>>>>>>> doing. If they want to have an impact, they should first start with
>>>>>>> what THEY eat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The point is, no matter how you look at it, sticking to a vegan
>>>>>>>> diet does less harm than eating beef or other farm animal. Please
>>>>>>>> tell me why this is not true.
>>>>>>> ==============================
>>>>>>> Becuase all the crops you eat are causing massive deaths and
>>>>>>> suffering to animals. tell me how much collateral death is
>>>>>>> associated with game meats. As long as there is an exapmle, the
>>>>>>> automatic gains vegans claims are just a delusion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, please explain what animals I am killing by posting on Usenet
>>>>>>>> and how I am contributing to their deaths by posting here.
>>>>>>> ========================
>>>>>>> Lookup power generation/distribution and communications. Study the
>>>>>>> Hudson River estuary. It's estimated that the 3 power plants there
>>>>>>> kill 3 billion fish. That's just 3 power generators out of 13000+
>>>>>>> in the US. Estimates range from 3 to 8% of power used by the
>>>>>>> internet. Millions upon millions of birds are kill by towers every
>>>>>>> year. Learn some facts about your entire lifestyle. Diet has a
>>>>>>> small impact overall.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>

>
>



  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Posted to alt.food.vegan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default Why it is wrong to kill animals for food

I've come in to this conversation very late and probably should stay out of
it but I never was one to use very good judgement, blaaahhhh. I have a
question. It is just below.

--
Wealth is in the imagination,
riches are in the heart and
magic resides in the soul.
"Anon" > wrote in message
...

> God, not "this God" or "some God", but God, created this world and we as
> spirit souls live in it. He gives us free will and we do what we please.
> This is His gift to us because he loves us so much. We desire, above all,
> to forget about Him. In this forgetfulness, we try to become the enjoyers
> of our experiences. We try to become God like. We want to be independant
> and in control which is impossible, but we try anyway because we aren't

very
> smart. God allows us to do this in order that we should come back to him
> (BY OUR OWN FREE WILL) after we realize that we cannot derive happiness

from
> trying to do these things.


Animals, are in even greater illusion because
> they don't have the ability to realize their position in life. They do

not
> have the ability to question existence.


What evedence of proof do you have that this is a factual statement?

We as people do, and we should.
> Many people do not and that's to be expected. This is where we come to
> forget.
>




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