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Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. The best way to get B-12 is from Meat.
A study I found while doing some research: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762 Background: Lack of cobalamin may lead to neurologic disorders, which have been reported in strict vegetarians. Objective: The objective of this study was to investigate whether cognitive functioning is affected in adolescents (aged 10-16 y) with marginal cobalamin status as a result of being fed a macrobiotic diet up to an average age of 6 y. Design: Data on dietary intake, psychological test performance, and biochemical variables of cobalamin status were collected from 48 adolescents who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets up to the age of 6 y, subsequently followed by lactovegetarian or omnivorous diets, and from 24 subjects (aged 10-18 y) who were fed omnivorous diets from birth onward. Thirty-one subjects from the previously macrobiotic group were cobalamin deficient according to their plasma methylmalonic acid concentrations. Seventeen previously macrobiotic subjects and all control subjects had normal cobalamin status. Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal cobalamin status. A significant relation between test score and cobalamin deficiency (P = 0.01) was observed for a test measuring fluid intelligence (correlation coefficient: -0.28; 95% CI: -0.48, -0.08). This effect became more pronounced (P = 0.003) within the subgroup of macrobiotic subjects (correlation coefficient: -0.38; 95% CI: -0.62, - 0.14). Conclusion: Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence of hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in adolescents. __________________________________________________ _______________________________ More problems with B-12 deficency: VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS During 2001, cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency resulted in neurologic impairment in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets. A recent report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers. Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT! -CARP- http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html |
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All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored. And still the
problem is very rare. You think you have cutting edge research, we've known about that for years. Light Cutter wrote: > Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. The best way > to get B-12 is from Meat. > > A study I found while doing some research: > > http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762 > > Background: Lack of cobalamin may lead to neurologic disorders, which > have been reported in strict vegetarians. > > Objective: The objective of this study was to investigate whether > cognitive functioning is affected in adolescents (aged 10–16 y) with > marginal cobalamin status as a result of being fed a macrobiotic diet up > to an average age of 6 y. > > Design: Data on dietary intake, psychological test performance, and > biochemical variables of cobalamin status were collected from 48 > adolescents who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets up to the age of > 6 y, subsequently followed by lactovegetarian or omnivorous diets, and > from 24 subjects (aged 10–18 y) who were fed omnivorous diets from birth > onward. Thirty-one subjects from the previously macrobiotic group were > cobalamin deficient according to their plasma methylmalonic acid > concentrations. Seventeen previously macrobiotic subjects and all > control subjects had normal cobalamin status. > > Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological > tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal cobalamin status. > A significant relation between test score and cobalamin deficiency (P = > 0.01) was observed for a test measuring fluid intelligence (correlation > coefficient: –0.28; 95% CI: –0.48, -0.08). This effect became more > pronounced (P = 0.003) within the subgroup of macrobiotic subjects > (correlation coefficient: –0.38; 95% CI: –0.62, - 0.14). > > Conclusion: Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence > of hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in > adolescents. > > __________________________________________________ _______________________________ > > More problems with B-12 deficency: > > > VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS > > During 2001, cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency resulted in neurologic > impairment in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by > mothers who followed vegetarian diets. A recent report from the U.S. > Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) summarizes the two > cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and > preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian > mothers. > > > > Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT! > > > > -CARP- > > http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html > > > |
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Beach Runner wrote:
> All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored. Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO. > And still the problem is very rare. Much less rare among vegans than among the general population. By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels.... The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an afterthought. The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12 supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky. http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob. |
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![]() usual suspect wrote: > Beach Runner wrote: > >> All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored. > > > Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO. > >> And still the problem is very rare. > > > Much less rare among vegans than among the general population. > > By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of > heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and > near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have > consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels.... > > The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition > community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that > plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan > advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the > nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not > address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan > advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an > afterthought. > > The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or > supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some > cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12 > supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky. > http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro > > Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob. You fool, it's a tiny problem compared with cancer and coronary artery disease, improved with a vegan diet. And easily resolved, while the meat diet problems are not easily solved. Why are you here? Every Vegan group warns about checking for B12, instead you attack everything vegan. Why are you on this list? |
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Numbnuts wrote:
>>> All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored. >> >> >> >> Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO. >> >>> And still the problem is very rare. >> >> >> >> Much less rare among vegans than among the general population. >> >> By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of >> heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and >> near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have >> consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels.... >> >> The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition >> community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that >> plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan >> advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the >> nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not >> address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan >> advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an >> afterthought. >> >> The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or >> supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some >> cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12 >> supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky. >> http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro >> >> Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob. > > You fool, You complete ass. > it's a tiny problem compared with cancer and coronary artery > disease, improved with a vegan diet. Ipse dixit. Vegans die, too, you know. They die of heart disease and cancer like everyone else. |
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![]() usual suspect wrote: > Numbnuts wrote: > >>>> All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO. >>> >>>> And still the problem is very rare. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Much less rare among vegans than among the general population. >>> >>> By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of >>> heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and >>> near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have >>> consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels.... >>> >>> The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition >>> community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that >>> plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan >>> advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the >>> nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not >>> address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan >>> advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an >>> afterthought. >>> >>> The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or >>> supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some >>> cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12 >>> supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky. >>> http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro >>> >>> Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob. >> >> >> You fool, > > > You complete ass. How kind. Does't address the issue. > >> it's a tiny problem compared with cancer and coronary artery disease, >> improved with a vegan diet. That FACT remains. > > > Ipse dixit. Vegans die, too, you know. They die of heart disease and > cancer like everyone else. Yes, but far far more people die of cancer and heart desease. Let other's be the judge. |
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![]() "usual suspect" > wrote in message ... > Much less rare among vegans than among the general population. Unsupported propaganda, as usual. http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm Laurie |
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![]() "Light Cutter" > wrote in message ... > Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. Actually, it is... ===== Mozafar, A. Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic fertilizers. Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994. Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on soils with natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods grown with inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those published by Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have shown that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if the plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to test the origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin B12 for study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but microorganisms can. In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a commonly used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants, specifically soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure B12 or B12 in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with inorganic fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase of B12 in the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry weight) and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12 increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and 34-fold in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a similar, but not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields receiving manure over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving inorganic fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased in organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is good news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in their diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food because of its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does seem to indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies should be done with other vitamins to confirm these observations. ===== > The best way to get B-12 is from Meat. http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm A study I found while doing some research: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762 > ... who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets ... The macrochaotic diet is a particularly horrific diet, consisting of cooked grains and beans, essentially nothing raw, and no fruit. It is not representative of a "vegan" diet. > Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests > than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal [sic] cobalamin status. Then, "normal", i.e. meatarian, cobalamin status did -not- support better performance. Laurie |
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BTW. B12 grows on bacteria.
Unusual Suspects never admits he's wrong or apologize. I admit to my mistakes. Mature people do. You did great service. We need more vegans to retake this group from this hostile individual unable to admit mistakes. Laurie wrote: > "Light Cutter" > wrote in message > ... > >>Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. > > Actually, it is... > ===== > Mozafar, A. > Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic > fertilizers. > Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994. > Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on soils with > natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods grown with > inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those published by > Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have shown > that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if the > plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to test the > origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin B12 for > study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but microorganisms can. > In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a commonly > used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants, specifically > soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure B12 or B12 > in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with inorganic > fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the > inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase of B12 in > the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry weight) > and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12 > increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and 34-fold > in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a similar, but > not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields receiving manure > over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving inorganic > fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased in > organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is good > news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in their > diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food because of > its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does seem to > indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies should be > done with other vitamins to confirm these observations. > > ===== > > >>The best way to get B-12 is from Meat. > > http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm > > > A study I found while doing some research: > http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762 > > >>... who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets ... > > The macrochaotic diet is a particularly horrific diet, consisting of > cooked grains and beans, essentially nothing raw, and no fruit. > It is not representative of a "vegan" diet. > > >>Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests >>than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal [sic] cobalamin status. > > Then, "normal", i.e. meatarian, cobalamin status did -not- support > better performance. > > Laurie > > |
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![]() "Beach Runner" > wrote in message news ![]() > BTW. B12 grows on bacteria. > Unusual Suspects never admits he's wrong or apologize. I admit > to my mistakes. ====================== No, you don't liar. Where's your calculations on water useage, fool? Are you continuing to spew that ly? Mature people do. You did great service. > > We need more vegans to retake this group from this hostile > individual unable to admit mistakes. ================== Ummmm, yep, sounds just like you, and every other wannbe vegan here. There are NO real vegans on usenet, killer. > > > Laurie wrote: > >> "Light Cutter" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. >> >> Actually, it is... >> ===== >> Mozafar, A. >> Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of >> organic fertilizers. >> Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994. >> Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown >> on soils with natural fertilizers have a better nutritional >> value than foods grown with inorganic fertilizers. Although >> past studies, such as those published by Gray and Daniel in >> 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have shown that >> organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if >> the plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In >> order to test the origins of vitamins in plants, this >> researcher selected vitamin B12 for study. This was because >> plants cannot manufacture it but microorganisms can. In >> addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a >> commonly used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether >> plants, specifically soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on >> soils amended with pure B12 or B12 in manure would have a >> higher B12 content than plants grown with inorganic >> fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in >> the inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold >> increase of B12 in the harvested grain in both the pure B12 >> treatment (10.8 ng/g dry weight) and the manure treatment (9.1 >> ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12 increased twofold in >> the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and 34-fold in the >> pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a >> similar, but not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples >> in fields receiving manure over several years contained more >> B12 than those only receiving inorganic fertilizers. These >> results show that B12 levels can be increased in organically >> grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is good >> news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough >> B12 in their diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy >> organic food because of its better nutritional value. While >> this preliminary trial does seem to indicate that vitamins can >> be absorbed from the soil, more studies should be done with >> other vitamins to confirm these observations. >> >> ===== >> >> >>>The best way to get B-12 is from Meat. >> >> http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm >> >> >> A study I found while doing some research: >> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762 >> >> >>>... who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets ... >> >> The macrochaotic diet is a particularly horrific diet, >> consisting of cooked grains and beans, essentially nothing >> raw, and no fruit. >> It is not representative of a "vegan" diet. >> >> >>>Results: The control subjects performed better on most >>>psychological tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or >>>normal [sic] cobalamin status. >> >> Then, "normal", i.e. meatarian, cobalamin status did -not- >> support better performance. >> >> Laurie >> |
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Hello
Is it said how much meat is necassary to eat so as not to suffer B12 deficiency? Uzytkownik "Light Cutter" > napisal w wiadomosci ... Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. The best way to get B-12 is from Meat. A study I found while doing some research: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762 Background: Lack of cobalamin may lead to neurologic disorders, which have been reported in strict vegetarians. Objective: The objective of this study was to investigate whether cognitive functioning is affected in adolescents (aged 10-16 y) with marginal cobalamin status as a result of being fed a macrobiotic diet up to an average age of 6 y. Design: Data on dietary intake, psychological test performance, and biochemical variables of cobalamin status were collected from 48 adolescents who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets up to the age of 6 y, subsequently followed by lactovegetarian or omnivorous diets, and from 24 subjects (aged 10-18 y) who were fed omnivorous diets from birth onward. Thirty-one subjects from the previously macrobiotic group were cobalamin deficient according to their plasma methylmalonic acid concentrations. Seventeen previously macrobiotic subjects and all control subjects had normal cobalamin status. Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal cobalamin status. A significant relation between test score and cobalamin deficiency (P = 0.01) was observed for a test measuring fluid intelligence (correlation coefficient: -0.28; 95% CI: -0.48, -0.08). This effect became more pronounced (P = 0.003) within the subgroup of macrobiotic subjects (correlation coefficient: -0.38; 95% CI: -0.62, - 0.14). Conclusion: Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence of hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in adolescents. __________________________________________________ _______________________________ More problems with B-12 deficency: VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS During 2001, cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency resulted in neurologic impairment in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets. A recent report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers. Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT! -CARP- http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html |
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*sigh* Vitamin B12 is available in dairy products, and is produced by certain froms of bacteria so perhaps you should be saying eat dairy/eggs/dirt - not meat.
I agree with taking a b12 supplement now and again (hardly any is needed)- most vegans already do this in the form of fortified foods. Examples of which include some Soya/rice milks, cereals, vitamin drinks. yeast extracts and some dairy free margarines. "mch" > wrote in message ... Hello Is it said how much meat is necassary to eat so as not to suffer B12 deficiency? Uzytkownik "Light Cutter" > napisal w wiadomosci ... Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. The best way to get B-12 is from Meat. A study I found while doing some research: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762 Background: Lack of cobalamin may lead to neurologic disorders, which have been reported in strict vegetarians. Objective: The objective of this study was to investigate whether cognitive functioning is affected in adolescents (aged 10-16 y) with marginal cobalamin status as a result of being fed a macrobiotic diet up to an average age of 6 y. Design: Data on dietary intake, psychological test performance, and biochemical variables of cobalamin status were collected from 48 adolescents who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets up to the age of 6 y, subsequently followed by lactovegetarian or omnivorous diets, and from 24 subjects (aged 10-18 y) who were fed omnivorous diets from birth onward. Thirty-one subjects from the previously macrobiotic group were cobalamin deficient according to their plasma methylmalonic acid concentrations. Seventeen previously macrobiotic subjects and all control subjects had normal cobalamin status. Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal cobalamin status. A significant relation between test score and cobalamin deficiency (P = 0.01) was observed for a test measuring fluid intelligence (correlation coefficient: -0.28; 95% CI: -0.48, -0.08). This effect became more pronounced (P = 0.003) within the subgroup of macrobiotic subjects (correlation coefficient: -0.38; 95% CI: -0.62, - 0.14). Conclusion: Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence of hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in adolescents. __________________________________________________ _______________________________ More problems with B-12 deficency: VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS During 2001, cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency resulted in neurologic impairment in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets. A recent report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers. Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT! -CARP- http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html |
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