Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2005, 02:59 AM
Light Cutter
 
Posts: n/a
Default Vegetarians may be learning disabled!

Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. The best way to get B-12 is from Meat.

A study I found while doing some research:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762

Background: Lack of cobalamin may lead to neurologic disorders, which have been reported in strict vegetarians.

Objective: The objective of this study was to investigate whether cognitive functioning is affected in adolescents (aged 10-16 y) with marginal cobalamin status as a result of being fed a macrobiotic diet up to an average age of 6 y.

Design: Data on dietary intake, psychological test performance, and biochemical variables of cobalamin status were collected from 48 adolescents who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets up to the age of 6 y, subsequently followed by lactovegetarian or omnivorous diets, and from 24 subjects (aged 10-18 y) who were fed omnivorous diets from birth onward. Thirty-one subjects from the previously macrobiotic group were cobalamin deficient according to their plasma methylmalonic acid concentrations. Seventeen previously macrobiotic subjects and all control subjects had normal cobalamin status.

Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal cobalamin status. A significant relation between test score and cobalamin deficiency (P = 0.01) was observed for a test measuring fluid intelligence (correlation coefficient: -0.28; 95% CI: -0.48, -0.08). This effect became more pronounced (P = 0.003) within the subgroup of macrobiotic subjects (correlation coefficient: -0.38; 95% CI: -0.62, - 0.14).

Conclusion: Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence of hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in adolescents.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

More problems with B-12 deficency:

VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS
During 2001, cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency resulted in neurologic impairment in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets. A recent report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers.



Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT!



-CARP-

http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html





  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2005, 04:57 AM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored. And still the
problem is very rare. You think you have cutting edge research, we've
known about that for years.

Light Cutter wrote:

Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. The best way
to get B-12 is from Meat.

A study I found while doing some research:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762

Background: Lack of cobalamin may lead to neurologic disorders, which
have been reported in strict vegetarians.

Objective: The objective of this study was to investigate whether
cognitive functioning is affected in adolescents (aged 10–16 y) with
marginal cobalamin status as a result of being fed a macrobiotic diet up
to an average age of 6 y.

Design: Data on dietary intake, psychological test performance, and
biochemical variables of cobalamin status were collected from 48
adolescents who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets up to the age of
6 y, subsequently followed by lactovegetarian or omnivorous diets, and
from 24 subjects (aged 10–18 y) who were fed omnivorous diets from birth
onward. Thirty-one subjects from the previously macrobiotic group were
cobalamin deficient according to their plasma methylmalonic acid
concentrations. Seventeen previously macrobiotic subjects and all
control subjects had normal cobalamin status.

Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological
tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal cobalamin status.
A significant relation between test score and cobalamin deficiency (P =
0.01) was observed for a test measuring fluid intelligence (correlation
coefficient: –0.28; 95% CI: –0.48, -0.08). This effect became more
pronounced (P = 0.003) within the subgroup of macrobiotic subjects
(correlation coefficient: –0.38; 95% CI: –0.62, - 0.14).

Conclusion: Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence
of hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in
adolescents.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

More problems with B-12 deficency:


VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS

During 2001, cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency resulted in neurologic
impairment in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by
mothers who followed vegetarian diets. A recent report from the U.S.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) summarizes the two
cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and
preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian
mothers.



Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT!



-CARP-

http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html



  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2005, 01:09 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Beach Runner wrote:
All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored.


Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO.

And still the problem is very rare.


Much less rare among vegans than among the general population.

By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of
heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and
near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have
consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels....

The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition
community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that
plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan
advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the
nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not
address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan
advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an
afterthought.

The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or
supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some
cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12
supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky.
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro

Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob.
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2005, 01:52 PM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default



usual suspect wrote:
Beach Runner wrote:

All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored.



Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO.

And still the problem is very rare.



Much less rare among vegans than among the general population.

By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of
heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and
near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have
consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels....

The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition
community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that
plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan
advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the
nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not
address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan
advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an
afterthought.

The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or
supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some
cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12
supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky.
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro

Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob.



You fool, it's a tiny problem compared with cancer and coronary artery
disease, improved with a vegan diet. And easily resolved, while the
meat diet problems are not easily solved.

Why are you here?
Every Vegan group warns about checking for B12, instead you attack
everything vegan. Why are you on this list?
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2005, 02:00 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Numbnuts wrote:
All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored.




Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO.

And still the problem is very rare.




Much less rare among vegans than among the general population.

By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of
heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and
near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have
consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels....

The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition
community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that
plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan
advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the
nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not
address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan
advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an
afterthought.

The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or
supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some
cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12
supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky.
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro

Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob.


You fool,


You complete ass.

it's a tiny problem compared with cancer and coronary artery
disease, improved with a vegan diet.


Ipse dixit. Vegans die, too, you know. They die of heart disease and
cancer like everyone else.


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2005, 03:46 PM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default



usual suspect wrote:

Numbnuts wrote:

All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored.




Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO.

And still the problem is very rare.




Much less rare among vegans than among the general population.

By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of
heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and
near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have
consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels....

The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition
community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that
plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan
advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the
nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not
address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan
advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an
afterthought.

The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or
supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some
cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12
supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky.
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro

Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob.



You fool,



You complete ass.


How kind. Does't address the issue.

it's a tiny problem compared with cancer and coronary artery disease,
improved with a vegan diet.


That FACT remains.


Ipse dixit. Vegans die, too, you know. They die of heart disease and
cancer like everyone else.


Yes, but far far more people die of cancer and heart desease. Let
other's be the judge.
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2005, 08:49 PM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Beach Runner wrote:


usual suspect wrote:

Numbnuts wrote:

All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored.





Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO.

And still the problem is very rare.





Much less rare among vegans than among the general population.

By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of
heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and
near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have
consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels....

The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition
community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that
plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan
advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the
nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not
address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan
advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an
afterthought.

The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or
supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some
cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12
supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky.
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro

Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob.



You fool,




You complete ass.



How kind. Does't address the issue.


it's a tiny problem compared with cancer and coronary artery disease,
improved with a vegan diet.



That FACT remains.



Ipse dixit. Vegans die, too, you know. They die of heart disease and
cancer like everyone else.



Yes, but far far more people die of cancer and heart desease. Let
other's be the judge.


Notice even when I agree, vegans should get B12 checked, US insults me.

It turns out that B12 defiency is common even among meat eaters.
Everyone should get their levels checked. I did. While mine where
normal after 30 years of a vegan diet I agreed to inject [email protected] to boost
the levels.

Newswise — These days, most health warnings about vitamins focus on
the danger of overdose. For vitamin B12, though, it's more likely that
people are getting too little. In fact, B12 deficiency is the most
common nutritional deficiency in the developing world and possibly in
the United States as well, reports the August issue of the Harvard
Health Letter.

Sometimes the only symptoms of a B12 deficiency are subtle cognitive
and neurological changes. More serious shortages can result in
dementia or anemia. Breast-fed infants of mothers with a B12
deficiency are at risk for severe developmental abnormalities and
irreversible neurological damage.

Vegans (people who don't eat any meat, dairy, or eggs) are most at
risk for developing a B12 deficiency because, aside from fortified
breakfast cereals, the only reliable dietary sources of vitamin B12
are animal-derived products. But even vegetarians who eat eggs and
dairy products consume, on average, less than half the adult
Recommended Dietary Allowance of 2.4 mcg of B12, notes the Health
Letter.

Some older people are also at high risk for developing B12 deficiency.
Up to 30% of people ages 50 and over suffer from atrophic gastritis, a
thinning of the stomach lining. This condition reduces the amount of
B12 absorbed by the small intestine. Certain other digestive
conditions and surgeries also can interfere with B12 absorption.

The Harvard Health Letter recommends that vegetarians and older people
with atrophic gastritis take a multivitamin, eat fortified breakfast
cereal, or both. A deficiency of vitamin B12 may affect balance,
memory, and perhaps mood. If you have these problems and you're in an
at-risk category, ask your doctor about getting a B12 blood test.

FULL STORY:
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/513540/?sc=dwtn
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-08-2005, 12:43 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Beach Runner wrote:


Beach Runner wrote:



usual suspect wrote:

Numbnuts wrote:

All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored.






Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO.

And still the problem is very rare.






Much less rare among vegans than among the general population.

By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of
heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and
near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have
consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels....

The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition
community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that
plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan
advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the
nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not
address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan
advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an
afterthought.

The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or
supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some
cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12
supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky.
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro

Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob.




You fool,




You complete ass.




How kind. Does't address the issue.


it's a tiny problem compared with cancer and coronary artery
disease, improved with a vegan diet.




That FACT remains.



Ipse dixit. Vegans die, too, you know. They die of heart disease and
cancer like everyone else.




Yes, but far far more people die of cancer and heart desease. Let
other's be the judge.



Notice even when I agree, vegans should get B12 checked, US insults me.


You didn't say they SHOULD get their B12 checked, you said they DO.
That's NOT the same, dummy. Here's what you wrote:

All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored.

...
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-08-2005, 10:12 PM
Laurie
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Light Cutter" wrote in message
...
Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form.

Actually, it is...
=====
Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic
fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on soils with
natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods grown with
inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those published by
Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have shown
that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if the
plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to test the
origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin B12 for
study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but microorganisms can.
In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a commonly
used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants, specifically
soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure B12 or B12
in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the
inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase of B12 in
the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry weight)
and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12
increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and 34-fold
in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a similar, but
not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields receiving manure
over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving inorganic
fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased in
organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in their
diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food because of
its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does seem to
indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies should be
done with other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====

The best way to get B-12 is from Meat.

http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm


A study I found while doing some research:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762

... who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets ...

The macrochaotic diet is a particularly horrific diet, consisting of
cooked grains and beans, essentially nothing raw, and no fruit.
It is not representative of a "vegan" diet.

Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests
than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal [sic] cobalamin status.

Then, "normal", i.e. meatarian, cobalamin status did -not- support
better performance.

Laurie


  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-08-2005, 10:15 PM
Laurie
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"usual suspect" wrote in message
...

Much less rare among vegans than among the general population.

Unsupported propaganda, as usual.
http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm

Laurie





  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-08-2005, 12:19 AM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default



usual suspect wrote:

Beach Runner wrote:



Beach Runner wrote:



usual suspect wrote:

Numbnuts wrote:

All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored.







Ipse dixit. They OUGHT to, but ought doesn't imply that they DO.

And still the problem is very rare.







Much less rare among vegans than among the general population.

By lowering homocysteine levels, B12 also reduces the risk of
heart disease, stroke, and other diseases. Vegans and
near-vegans who do not supplement with vitamin B12 have
consistently shown elevated homocysteine levels....

The overwhelming consensus in the mainstream nutrition
community, as well as among vegan health professionals, is that
plant foods do not provide vitamin B12. Despite this, some vegan
advocates still believe that "plant foods provide all the
nutrients necessary for optimal health" and, therefore, do not
address vitamin B12 when promoting the vegan diet. Other vegan
advocates acknowledge the need for B12, but only as an
afterthought.

The result is that many vegans do not eat B12 fortified foods or
supplements. Many have developed overt B12 deficiency. In some
cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12
supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky.
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/intro

Stop pushing your quackery on others, Boob.





You fool,





You complete ass.




How kind. Does't address the issue.


it's a tiny problem compared with cancer and coronary artery
disease, improved with a vegan diet.




That FACT remains.



Ipse dixit. Vegans die, too, you know. They die of heart disease and
cancer like everyone else.




Yes, but far far more people die of cancer and heart desease. Let
other's be the judge.




Notice even when I agree, vegans should get B12 checked, US insults me.



You didn't say they SHOULD get their B12 checked, you said they DO.
That's NOT the same, dummy. Here's what you wrote:

All responsible vegans have their B12levels monitored.

I said all RESPONSIBLE vegans, not all VEGANS.


Can you read the world Responsible and under the difference between ALL?
Apparently not.


You will not drive me from the group. Your insults are stupid. I don't
insult you. Why do you feel the need to insult people? Is it insecurity?

Every RESPONSIBLE vegan authority says to check B12 levels. In fact,
according to Harvard, everyone should get their B12 levels checked.

Much more common is heart disease and cancer and much more common is a
typical American diet which over consumes meat and under consumes leafy
vegetables and fruit.


Few Americans check their B12 levels but Harvard says everyone should.
Not just Vegans or vegetarians.




...

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-08-2005, 12:23 AM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

BTW. B12 grows on bacteria.
Unusual Suspects never admits he's wrong or apologize. I admit to my
mistakes. Mature people do. You did great service.

We need more vegans to retake this group from this hostile individual
unable to admit mistakes.


Laurie wrote:

"Light Cutter" wrote in message
...

Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form.


Actually, it is...
=====
Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of organic
fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown on soils with
natural fertilizers have a better nutritional value than foods grown with
inorganic fertilizers. Although past studies, such as those published by
Gray and Daniel in 1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have shown
that organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if the
plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In order to test the
origins of vitamins in plants, this researcher selected vitamin B12 for
study. This was because plants cannot manufacture it but microorganisms can.
In addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a commonly
used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether plants, specifically
soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on soils amended with pure B12 or B12
in manure would have a higher B12 content than plants grown with inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in the
inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold increase of B12 in
the harvested grain in both the pure B12 treatment (10.8 ng/g dry weight)
and the manure treatment (9.1 ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12
increased twofold in the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and 34-fold
in the pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a similar, but
not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples in fields receiving manure
over several years contained more B12 than those only receiving inorganic
fertilizers. These results show that B12 levels can be increased in
organically grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough B12 in their
diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy organic food because of
its better nutritional value. While this preliminary trial does seem to
indicate that vitamins can be absorbed from the soil, more studies should be
done with other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====


The best way to get B-12 is from Meat.


http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm


A study I found while doing some research:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762


... who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets ...


The macrochaotic diet is a particularly horrific diet, consisting of
cooked grains and beans, essentially nothing raw, and no fruit.
It is not representative of a "vegan" diet.


Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests
than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal [sic] cobalamin status.


Then, "normal", i.e. meatarian, cobalamin status did -not- support
better performance.

Laurie


  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-08-2005, 01:37 AM
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Beach Runner" wrote in message
news
BTW. B12 grows on bacteria.
Unusual Suspects never admits he's wrong or apologize. I admit
to my mistakes.

======================
No, you don't liar. Where's your calculations on water useage,
fool? Are you continuing to spew that ly?


Mature people do. You did great service.

We need more vegans to retake this group from this hostile
individual unable to admit mistakes.

==================
Ummmm, yep, sounds just like you, and every other wannbe vegan
here. There are NO real vegans on usenet, killer.





Laurie wrote:

"Light Cutter" wrote in message
...

Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form.


Actually, it is...
=====
Mozafar, A.
Enrichment of some B-vitamins in plants with application of
organic fertilizers.
Plant and Soil 167:305-311, 1994.
Organic food suppliers often claim that organic foods grown
on soils with natural fertilizers have a better nutritional
value than foods grown with inorganic fertilizers. Although
past studies, such as those published by Gray and Daniel in
1959 or by Leclerc and colleagues in 1991, have shown that
organically grown produce had more vitamins, it was unclear if
the plants synthesized them or got them from the soil. In
order to test the origins of vitamins in plants, this
researcher selected vitamin B12 for study. This was because
plants cannot manufacture it but microorganisms can. In
addition, large amounts of B12 are found in animal manure, a
commonly used organic fertilizer. This study looked at whether
plants, specifically soybeans, barley, and spinach, grown on
soils amended with pure B12 or B12 in manure would have a
higher B12 content than plants grown with inorganic
fertilizers. All plants contained a minimal amount of B12 in
the inorganically fertilized soil. Barley showed a threefold
increase of B12 in the harvested grain in both the pure B12
treatment (10.8 ng/g dry weight) and the manure treatment (9.1
ng/g dry weight). In spinach leaves, B12 increased twofold in
the manure treatment (17.8 ng/g dry weight) and 34-fold in the
pure B12 treatment (235 ng/g dry weight). Soybeans had a
similar, but not as dramatic trend. In addition, soil samples
in fields receiving manure over several years contained more
B12 than those only receiving inorganic fertilizers. These
results show that B12 levels can be increased in organically
grown food through the use of manure fertilizers. This is good
news for vegetarians, who often have trouble getting enough
B12 in their diets. It is also good news for consumers who buy
organic food because of its better nutritional value. While
this preliminary trial does seem to indicate that vitamins can
be absorbed from the soil, more studies should be done with
other vitamins to confirm these observations.

=====


The best way to get B-12 is from Meat.


http://www.ecologos.org/B-12.htm


A study I found while doing some research:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762


... who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets ...


The macrochaotic diet is a particularly horrific diet,
consisting of cooked grains and beans, essentially nothing
raw, and no fruit.
It is not representative of a "vegan" diet.


Results: The control subjects performed better on most
psychological tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or
normal [sic] cobalamin status.


Then, "normal", i.e. meatarian, cobalamin status did -not-
support better performance.

Laurie


  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-08-2005, 10:41 AM
mch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hello
Is it said how much meat is necassary to eat so as not to suffer B12 deficiency?
Uzytkownik "Light Cutter" napisal w wiadomosci ...
Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. The best way to get B-12 is from Meat.

A study I found while doing some research:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762

Background: Lack of cobalamin may lead to neurologic disorders, which have been reported in strict vegetarians.

Objective: The objective of this study was to investigate whether cognitive functioning is affected in adolescents (aged 10-16 y) with marginal cobalamin status as a result of being fed a macrobiotic diet up to an average age of 6 y.

Design: Data on dietary intake, psychological test performance, and biochemical variables of cobalamin status were collected from 48 adolescents who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets up to the age of 6 y, subsequently followed by lactovegetarian or omnivorous diets, and from 24 subjects (aged 10-18 y) who were fed omnivorous diets from birth onward. Thirty-one subjects from the previously macrobiotic group were cobalamin deficient according to their plasma methylmalonic acid concentrations. Seventeen previously macrobiotic subjects and all control subjects had normal cobalamin status.

Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal cobalamin status. A significant relation between test score and cobalamin deficiency (P = 0.01) was observed for a test measuring fluid intelligence (correlation coefficient: -0.28; 95% CI: -0.48, -0.08). This effect became more pronounced (P = 0.003) within the subgroup of macrobiotic subjects (correlation coefficient: -0.38; 95% CI: -0.62, - 0.14).

Conclusion: Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence of hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in adolescents.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

More problems with B-12 deficency:

VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS
During 2001, cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency resulted in neurologic impairment in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets. A recent report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers.



Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT!



-CARP-

http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html




  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-08-2005, 09:41 PM
Michelle Smith
 
Posts: n/a
Default

*sigh* Vitamin B12 is available in dairy products, and is produced by certain froms of bacteria so perhaps you should be saying eat dairy/eggs/dirt - not meat.

I agree with taking a b12 supplement now and again (hardly any is needed)- most vegans already do this in the form of fortified foods.

Examples of which include some Soya/rice milks, cereals, vitamin drinks. yeast extracts and some dairy free margarines.


"mch" wrote in message ...
Hello
Is it said how much meat is necassary to eat so as not to suffer B12 deficiency?
Uzytkownik "Light Cutter" napisal w wiadomosci ...
Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. The best way to get B-12 is from Meat.

A study I found while doing some research:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762

Background: Lack of cobalamin may lead to neurologic disorders, which have been reported in strict vegetarians.

Objective: The objective of this study was to investigate whether cognitive functioning is affected in adolescents (aged 10-16 y) with marginal cobalamin status as a result of being fed a macrobiotic diet up to an average age of 6 y.

Design: Data on dietary intake, psychological test performance, and biochemical variables of cobalamin status were collected from 48 adolescents who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets up to the age of 6 y, subsequently followed by lactovegetarian or omnivorous diets, and from 24 subjects (aged 10-18 y) who were fed omnivorous diets from birth onward. Thirty-one subjects from the previously macrobiotic group were cobalamin deficient according to their plasma methylmalonic acid concentrations. Seventeen previously macrobiotic subjects and all control subjects had normal cobalamin status.

Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal cobalamin status. A significant relation between test score and cobalamin deficiency (P = 0.01) was observed for a test measuring fluid intelligence (correlation coefficient: -0.28; 95% CI: -0.48, -0.08). This effect became more pronounced (P = 0.003) within the subgroup of macrobiotic subjects (correlation coefficient: -0.38; 95% CI: -0.62, - 0.14).

Conclusion: Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence of hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in adolescents.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

More problems with B-12 deficency:

VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS
During 2001, cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency resulted in neurologic impairment in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by mothers who followed vegetarian diets. A recent report from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) summarizes the two cases and provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers.



Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT!



-CARP-

http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html






Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Developmentally Disabled Teen Found Dead with Uterus Removed AfterAccusing Stepfather of Raping and Impregnating Her Colonel Edmund J. Burke[_13_] General Cooking 0 05-05-2016 05:40 PM
Disabled Veterans National Foundation. James Silverton[_4_] General Cooking 89 25-10-2014 08:19 AM
learning c++ Aslak Kärkkäinen Wine 0 25-06-2008 03:30 PM
Accommodation disabled or cerebral palsy diabetics B[_2_] Diabetic 0 16-06-2007 01:43 AM
Learning from experience John White Sourdough 19 09-03-2007 09:22 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2019 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"

 

Copyright © 2017