On Mon, 01 Sep 2008 10:34:21 GMT, Dutch > wrote:

>Rupert wrote:
>> I quote from Joan Dunayer's "Speciesism":
>>
>> "By 'vegan lifestyle' I mean a commitment to avoiding products and
>> enterprises that involve intentional,
>> needless infliction of nonhuman suffering and death.
>>
>> A vegan doesn't eat any food derived from nonhumans; wear animal-
>> derived clothes or accessories; buy household,
>> beauty, or body-care products that contain animal-derived ingredients
>> or were tested on nonhumans; visit
>> aquaprisons or zoos; contribute to organisations that fund
>> vivisection; buy nonhumans (except to save them from
>> abuse or death); or otherwise willingly participate in speciesist
>> abuse. To the fullest extent possible,
>> a vegan avoids intentional harm to nonhuman beings."
>>
>> Is this a correct definition?
>>
>> Is it your position that a vegan can buy medications which were tested
>> on animals?
>
>That position does not deal with the issue of
>collateral deaths.

There are cds associated with the production and
distribution of medicine.

>Veganism is more of a political
>statement than anything. It may for the most part
>decrease the amount of animal suffering one causes,
>but it falls far short of the goal followers tend to
>believe it achieves.

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·