Dutch wrote:
> SystemX wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> SystemX wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vegans do consume dairy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Even by their own lax standards, vegans cannot consume dairy
>>>>>>>>>>> and still legitimately call themselves vegans.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I mad e a mistook. - A bad one - I missed the important word
>>>>>>>>>> 'not'. I guess you worked that out for yourself, but hey, why
>>>>>>>>>> not score a point.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> BTW - I'm self identifying myself as God.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That was redundant.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just making a point that; self identification is not reliable
>>>>>>>>>> identification:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You mean you don't identify yourself as God?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Including animals?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is related to your statement about "we are all God".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it was clear Dutch was restricting "we" to humans.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the way I used the term I meant everything, not only humans, not
>>>>> only animals and plants, everything.
>>>>>
>>>>> In this sense God is the organizing force in all matter and life,
>>>>> humans being the most ambitious manifestation of that force.
>>>>
>>>> There is no 'force'.
>>>
>>> No force? That is hardly a plausible response. At the very least
>>> there are many forces operating independently. There's a force in you
>>> that gets you up in the morning.
>>
>> No; there is no 'organising force'. There is no 'force' that gets me
>> up in the morning. (Apart from the PHYSICAL one that changes a body
>> from a state of rest to one of motion).
>>
>>>
>>>> It is entirely evolutionary.
>>>
>>> What is "it"?
>>
>> "life"
>
> What is life? Show me. Isn't it a force?

Look in a mirror that is 'life'. No it's not an all encompassing
"organising force" that you originally mentioned.

>
>>> I didn't say anything about development of species.
>>
>>> Question, why does life bother to occur?
>>
>> It doesn't 'bother' it just occurs.
>
> Why?

There is no evidence of a 'bothering' 'organising force'.

>
>>> Why does lichen live on high mountain ridges where it is -100 degrees
>>> with almost no air? Why do animals struggle to live in Antarctic
>>> winter? Why do flowers bloom?
>>
>> Try Wikipedia.
>
> There will be metaphysical hypotheses that you would reject.

Of course I will reject some *hypotheses*. You seem to have a view of
some driving / organising force that has no basis in *fact*.

>
>>
>>> Seems like a lot of trouble just to die a short time later. What is
>>> driving all this frenetic activity? Seems to me like there is some
>>> kind of driving force.
>>
>> You are mistaken,
>
> How can you be so certain?

There is NO evidence of a 'driving force' NONE.

>
> > possibly misled by those around you.
>
> Where did you get the notions "atheism" and "agnosticism"? Was it not
> "those around you"?

I base my thoughts on facts, not some wishy washy notion of 'driving /
organising forces' that equate to some form of God.

What percentage of your friends and relations have belief in God?

>
>