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Posted to alt.usenet.kooks,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,misc.rural
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The myth of food production "efficiency" in the "ar" debate
On Jun 7, 1:51 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> Rupert wrote: > > On Jun 6, 2:55 pm, Rudy Canoza > wrote: > >> Rupert wrote: > >>> On Jun 6, 9:07 am, Rudy Canoza > wrote: > >>>> On Jun 5, 4:01 pm, Rupert > wrote: > >>>>> On Jun 5, 9:35 pm, "Kadaitcha Man" > wrote: > >>>>>> Rupert > Thou walleyed slave. Thou grey > >>>>>> iniquity. Ye jabbered: > >>>>>>> On Jun 5, 6:42 pm, "Kadaitcha Man" > wrote: > >>>>>>>> Rupert > Thou swearing jack. Thou rotten, > >>>>>>>> ugly lost soul. Ye spat: > >>>>>>>>> On Jun 5, 6:10 pm, "Dutch" > wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> "Rupert" > wrote in message > >>>>>>>>>>news:1181029663.976921.25060@j4g2000prf. googlegroups.com... > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 5, 5:37 pm, "Kadaitcha Man" > wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Dutch > Thou issue of a mangy dog. Thou damnable > >>>>>>>>>>>> fellow. Ye afforded: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Diet is not normally considered to be a major > >>>>>>>>>>>>> moral issue except by vegans, so a non-vegan who decides they > >>>>>>>>>>>>> want to explore the health benefits of a vegan diet is unlikely > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to feel a moral barrier to making such a change, that would not > >>>>>>>>>>>>> even come up as an issue. However, a vegan who is used to > >>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking of their diet as a statement of moral commitment, which > >>>>>>>>>>>>> is most of them, is very likely to have psychological barriers > >>>>>>>>>>>>> or hangups preventing them from starting to eat meat. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Suppose, for one moment, that all vegans suddenly discover that > >>>>>>>>>>>> their bodies > >>>>>>>>>>>> are lacking in a certain mineral or enzyme (et al) and that they > >>>>>>>>>>>> will die horrible deaths over the space of a month due to the > >>>>>>>>>>>> supposed lack. Also suppose that they must do what the man below > >>>>>>>>>>>> did or die horribly because the > >>>>>>>>>>>> life-saving ingredient cannot be obtained any other way: > >>>>>>>>>>>>http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070605/...uk_china_frogs > >>>>>>>>>>>> How many vegans do you suppose will succumb to their innate will > >>>>>>>>>>>> to live thereby ****ing off their alleged "moral commitment"? > >>>>>>>>>>>> I say damn near every one of them would. So then, what value is > >>>>>>>>>>>> the "moral > >>>>>>>>>>>> commitment"? > >>>>>>>>>>> Well, I'm not so sure about that, but let's face it, there are > >>>>>>>>>>> probably quite a few things most of us would do if the only > >>>>>>>>>>> alternative was to die a horrible death. So what's your point? > >>>>>>>>>> What if the alternatives were not so extreme, such as to simply > >>>>>>>>>> accept to live in a state of diminished health? When are we > >>>>>>>>>> permitted to allow our self-interest to take precendence? > >>>>>>>>> Yeah, well, you're right, that's an interesting question. > >>>>>>>>>> His point is valid though, how many of us would commit murder to > >>>>>>>>>> save himself? Yet we'd happily relent and allow animals to die if > >>>>>>>>>> it came right down to it. > >>>>>>>>> Well, you might be surprised at what most people would do if push > >>>>>>>>> came to shove if they were really in a life-threatening situation. > >>>>>>>>> But yeah, okay, we probably would be more willing to allow animals > >>>>>>>>> to die. And, you know, quite a lot of animal rights and animal > >>>>>>>>> liberation philosophers would maintain that that preference can be > >>>>>>>>> justified in one way or another. See, that's the thing, you think > >>>>>>>>> "equal consideration" means we're not allowed to wash our hair and > >>>>>>>>> kill demodex mites, I'm afraid it's not as simple as that. > >>>>>>>>> The preference probably is a widespread preference in our culture. > >>>>>>>>> Maybe it can be justified, maybe it can't. > >>>>>>>> What is there to justify? > >>>>>>> A pattern of discrimination. Discrimination requires some sort of > >>>>>>> justification. > >>>>>> Bullshit. Discrimination is part of the human condition. > >>>>> Irrelevant. What I said is still correct. > >>>>> There's really nothing for us to argue about anyway. I said "Maybe it > >>>>> can be justified, maybe it can't", which is basically not saying > >>>>> anything. You said "What is there to justify?", meaning, you think it > >>>>> obviously can be justified > >>>> No, ****wit; that's not what the question implies at all. The > >>>> question implies he thinks there's no moral dimension to it. > >>> If it could not be justified, there would be a moral dimension to it. > >> ****wit: his question implies there is no *need* for > >> justification, because of no moral dimension to it. > >> That is the implication of the question, you stubborn > >> arrogant ****: there is nothing that needs to be > >> justified. > > > Which in no way contradicts anything I said. > > Yes, it plainly does contradict it, rupie, you ****wit. Silly man. > You are claiming there is something that needs to be > justified, and hasn't been. The poster is saying there > is nothing that needs to be justified. > This does not contradict the statement I made to which you were replying. > >> You are such an arrogant little ****, rupie. > > > Stop projecting > > No - still accurately describing you, ****wit. No - accurately describing *you*. |
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