Ok, the long in coming maturing moral reasoning has caught up with me.

I am going to attempt to go Veg for a month. I will allow myself tuna on
this trial diet but promise myself to not rely on it heavily. I need to
know if this is a life choice that i can follow. I have a few problems i
could use help with.

Since this was a moral decision, it is not like there was a start time
planned. I haven't been eating meat for three days now, but i haven't
really eaten alot of anything. Take right now as an example. It is lunch
time, but i have absolutely no idea what i could possibly eat that doesn't
contain meat of some sort (on a lunch break) or where to get it close by.
So.. Im just not eating. I assume this could eventually lead to problems

Second, the media has brainwashed me into believing that i will now die of
vitamin deficiency. I need some sort of daily checklist of
vitamins/protein/whatever that i now am lacking, and where to get them
from/how much to take.

Lastly, is there any veg #IRC channel around that i could idle in ? I have
seen several references to #veggies on efnet, but it does not seem to exist
any longer.

thank you for all the help,

The Spillmonkey

are there any chinese vegetarian restaurants around where u live?
their mock pork is almost indistinguishable from the real thing !
though most chinese vegetarian mock meat are not organic

my reason for going 'more vegetarian' is more for health reasons. u
cannot deny that organic food is the way to go.

my pure vegetarian friend has been taking molasses, clorophyl, and
spirulina for protein.
for me its fish.make sure the vitamins or pills ur taking does not
contain animal gelatin.

skin products containing chemicals like glycerin may be cow derived. go
for vegan approved products.

too much of a good thing is not good
so have a balance in everything u eat. example if u're drinking vege
milk, go for soy, then almond, then oat, then this than that
health-wise, its a trial and error journey. dont believe too much on
'scientific studies'
have u seen ppl on total fruit diet who are lean and mascular? i do.
different ppl different reaction to food.
what bout eggs?do u not want to take them too? i
maybe u may think eating 'organic' free-range chicken eggs are is
morally wrong, but its your decision.



TheSpillmonkey wrote:
> Ok, the long in coming maturing moral reasoning has caught up with me.
>
> I am going to attempt to go Veg for a month. I will allow myself tuna on
> this trial diet but promise myself to not rely on it heavily. I need to
> know if this is a life choice that i can follow. I have a few problems i
> could use help with.
>
> Since this was a moral decision, it is not like there was a start time
> planned. I haven't been eating meat for three days now, but i haven't
> really eaten alot of anything. Take right now as an example. It is lunch
> time, but i have absolutely no idea what i could possibly eat that doesn't
> contain meat of some sort (on a lunch break) or where to get it close by.
> So.. Im just not eating. I assume this could eventually lead to problems
>
> Second, the media has brainwashed me into believing that i will now die of
> vitamin deficiency. I need some sort of daily checklist of

> vitamins/protein/whatever that i now am lacking, and where to get them
> from/how much to take.
>
> Lastly, is there any veg #IRC channel around that i could idle in ? I have
> seen several references to #veggies on efnet, but it does not seem to exist
> any longer.
>
> thank you for all the help,
>
> The Spillmonkey

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:20:35 GMT, TheSpillmonkey > wrote:

>Ok, the long in coming maturing moral reasoning has caught up with me.
>
>I am going to attempt to go Veg for a month. I will allow myself tuna on
>this trial diet but promise myself to not rely on it heavily. I need to
>know if this is a life choice that i can follow. I have a few problems i
>could use help with.
>
>Since this was a moral decision, it is not like there was a start time
>planned.

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

Sounds a good plan.

I was a succesful as a vegetarian, for many years however I noticed
real health benefits as a vegan.

Do not be too hard on yourself from the beginning. I would say give
yourself the best chance. Re-program your mind - read up about the
environmental consequences of modern farming, the motivation of modern
corporate farmers and this should be enough to motivate you.

Do not try to justify the concept of veg*nism, just justify why it is
right for you - if necessary.

After all asking someone to justify capitalist consumerism through
ethics is a very messy minefield.

I wish you the best, feel free to email me with any questions.

dh@. wrote:
> · Vegans contribute ...etc ad infinitium..

Stop being a prat dh.



> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:20:35 GMT, TheSpillmonkey > wrote:
>
> >Ok, the long in coming maturing moral reasoning has caught up with me.
> >
> >I am going to attempt to go Veg for a month. I will allow myself tuna on
> >this trial diet but promise myself to not rely on it heavily. I need to
> >know if this is a life choice that i can follow. I have a few problems i
> >could use help with.
> >
> >Since this was a moral decision, it is not like there was a start time
> >planned.
>
> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
> to avoid the following in order to be successful:
>
> Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
> Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
> Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
> Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
> Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
> Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
> Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings
>
> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
> being vegan.
> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

On 6 Oct 2006 03:54:33 -0700, "Blueshark" > wrote:

>dh@. wrote:
>> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals . . .
>
>Stop being a prat dh.

What you really want me to do is stop pointing out that some
alternative(s) could be considered ethically equivalent or superior
to the extreme of veganism...you want me to stop encouraging
people to think!

>> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:20:35 GMT, TheSpillmonkey > wrote:
>>
>> >Ok, the long in coming maturing moral reasoning has caught up with me.
>> >
>> >I am going to attempt to go Veg for a month. I will allow myself tuna on
>> >this trial diet but promise myself to not rely on it heavily. I need to
>> >know if this is a life choice that i can follow. I have a few problems i
>> >could use help with.
>> >
>> >Since this was a moral decision, it is not like there was a start time
>> >planned.
>>
>> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
>> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
>> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
>> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
>> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
>> to avoid the following in order to be successful:
>>
>> Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
>> Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
>> Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
>> Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
>> Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
>> Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
>> Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings
>>
>> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
>> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
>> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
>> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
>> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
>> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
>> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
>> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
>> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
>> being vegan.
>> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
>> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
>> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
>> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
>> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
>> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
>> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
>> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
>> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
>> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
>> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

> >dh@. wrote:
> >> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals . . .
>
> >Stop being a prat dh. What you really want me to do is stop pointing out that some
> alternative(s) could be considered ethically equivalent or superior
> to the extreme of veganism...you want me to stop encouraging
> people to think!

I am encouraging you not act so hastily, to think clearly before you
attempt to ruin someone's aspirations and good intentions.

You are obviously not afraid to post (opinions or spam), but you should
also have a sense of reponsibility.

On Oct 6, 4:26 pm, dh@. wrote:
> On 6 Oct 2006 03:54:33 -0700, "Blueshark" > wrote:
>
> >dh@. wrote:
> >> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals . . .
>
> >Stop being a prat dh. What you really want me to do is stop pointing out that some
> alternative(s) could be considered ethically equivalent or superior
> to the extreme of veganism...you want me to stop encouraging
> people to think!
>
> >> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:20:35 GMT, TheSpillmonkey > wrote:
>
> >> >Ok, the long in coming maturing moral reasoning has caught up with me.
>
> >> >I am going to attempt to go Veg for a month. I will allow myself tuna on
> >> >this trial diet but promise myself to not rely on it heavily. I need to
> >> >know if this is a life choice that i can follow. I have a few problems i
> >> >could use help with.
>
> >> >Since this was a moral decision, it is not like there was a start time
> >> >planned.
>
> >> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
> >> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
> >> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
> >> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
> >> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
> >> to avoid the following in order to be successful:
>
> >> Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
> >> Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
> >> Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
> >> Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
> >> Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
> >> Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
> >> Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings
>
> >> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
> >> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
> >> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
> >> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
> >> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
> >> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
> >> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
> >> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
> >> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
> >> being vegan.
> >> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
> >> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
> >> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
> >> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
> >> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
> >> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
> >> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
> >> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
> >> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
> >> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
> >> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

dh your a fag!
<dh@.> wrote in message ...
> On 6 Oct 2006 03:54:33 -0700, "Blueshark" > wrote:
>
>>dh@. wrote:
>>> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals . . .
>>
>>Stop being a prat dh.
>
> What you really want me to do is stop pointing out that some
> alternative(s) could be considered ethically equivalent or superior
> to the extreme of veganism...you want me to stop encouraging
> people to think!
>
>>> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:20:35 GMT, TheSpillmonkey
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> >Ok, the long in coming maturing moral reasoning has caught up with me.
>>> >
>>> >I am going to attempt to go Veg for a month. I will allow myself tuna
>>> >on
>>> >this trial diet but promise myself to not rely on it heavily. I need to
>>> >know if this is a life choice that i can follow. I have a few problems
>>> >i
>>> >could use help with.
>>> >
>>> >Since this was a moral decision, it is not like there was a start time
>>> >planned.
>>>
>>> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
>>> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
>>> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
>>> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
>>> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
>>> to avoid the following in order to be successful:
>>>
>>> Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
>>> Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
>>> Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
>>> Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
>>> Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
>>> Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
>>> Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings
>>>
>>> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
>>> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
>>> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
>>> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
>>> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
>>> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
>>> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
>>> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
>>> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
>>> being vegan.
>>> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
>>> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
>>> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
>>> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
>>> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
>>> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
>>> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
>>> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
>>> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
>>> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
>>> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

On 6 Oct 2006 09:18:39 -0700, "Blueshark" > wrote:

>> >dh@. wrote:
>> >> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals . . .
>>
>> >Stop being a prat dh. What you really want me to do is stop pointing out that some
>> alternative(s) could be considered ethically equivalent or superior
>> to the extreme of veganism...you want me to stop encouraging
>> people to think!
>
>I am encouraging you not act so hastily, to think clearly before you
>attempt to ruin someone's aspirations and good intentions.
>
>You are obviously not afraid to post (opinions or spam), but you should
>also have a sense of reponsibility.

I encourage people to think MORE and you "aras" necessarily
encourage them to think LESS.

>On Oct 6, 4:26 pm, dh@. wrote:
>> On 6 Oct 2006 03:54:33 -0700, "Blueshark" > wrote:
>>
>> >dh@. wrote:
>> >> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals . . .
>>
>> >Stop being a prat dh. What you really want me to do is stop pointing out that some
>> alternative(s) could be considered ethically equivalent or superior
>> to the extreme of veganism...you want me to stop encouraging
>> people to think!
>>
>> >> On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 17:20:35 GMT, TheSpillmonkey > wrote:
>>
>> >> >Ok, the long in coming maturing moral reasoning has caught up with me.
>>
>> >> >I am going to attempt to go Veg for a month. I will allow myself tuna on
>> >> >this trial diet but promise myself to not rely on it heavily. I need to
>> >> >know if this is a life choice that i can follow. I have a few problems i
>> >> >could use help with.
>>
>> >> >Since this was a moral decision, it is not like there was a start time
>> >> >planned.
>>
>> >> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
>> >> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
>> >> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
>> >> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
>> >> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
>> >> to avoid the following in order to be successful:
>>
>> >> Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
>> >> Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
>> >> Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
>> >> Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
>> >> Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
>> >> Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
>> >> Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings
>>
>> >> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
>> >> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
>> >> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
>> >> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
>> >> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
>> >> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
>> >> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
>> >> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
>> >> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
>> >> being vegan.
>> >> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
>> >> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
>> >> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
>> >> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
>> >> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
>> >> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
>> >> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
>> >> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
>> >> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
>> >> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
>> >> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·