Hi,

There are so many green and white teas on the market, it is difficult to
ascertain which is the most authentic in terms of purity of the tea. I
haven't seen any studies that comparies that various teas in terms of which
brand are least processed and have the most authentic leaves with minimal
processing. Does anyone know where I can find this info?

Thanks

Zoom

All tea is authentic, or else it isn't tea. Perhaps you want to avoid
teabags and flavored or scented tea. Possibly you want a tea with a
leaf you can see. I doubt that anybody tries to pass off "something
else" as tea, but there may be dishonesty about estates or processing.
Toci
Zoom wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There are so many green and white teas on the market, it is difficult to
> ascertain which is the most authentic in terms of purity of the tea. I
> haven't seen any studies that comparies that various teas in terms of which
> brand are least processed and have the most authentic leaves with minimal
> processing. Does anyone know where I can find this info?
>
> Thanks
>
> Zoom

> There are so many green and white teas on the market, it is difficult to
> ascertain which is the most authentic in terms of purity of the tea. I
> haven't seen any studies that comparies that various teas in terms of which
> brand are least processed and have the most authentic leaves with minimal
> processing. Does anyone know where I can find this info?

What, to your mind, makes tea authentic?

Tea processing isn't very complex, and tea is the kind of thing that is
hard to adulterate, except with other (cheaper) kinds of tea. So for
the most part, I don't think tea can be anything other than pure, although
it can be something other than what it's labelled.

I will say that there are a number of suppliers out there, and Upton's comes
to mind first, that have a wide variety of different teas and are pretty
good about making sure that what it says on the label is really what is in
the box. So you don't order some single estate Darjeeling and wind up with
Argentinian finings. But honestly, the issue of provenance really isn't
all that serious with tea.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Tea names are finished agricultural goods sold on the open market. Tea
brands are packaging names. Puerh factories might be the exception
that take raw tea material and produce a finished product like a
canning factory. There are questions where say more Dareeling is
consumed than sold or what makes a tea organic or why two English
Breakfasts taste different. But tea is tea if it is camellia sinensis.
The tea industry doesn't work the way I understand your question.

Jim

Zoom wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There are so many green and white teas on the market, it is difficult to
> ascertain which is the most authentic in terms of purity of the tea. I
> haven't seen any studies that comparies that various teas in terms of which
> brand are least processed and have the most authentic leaves with minimal
> processing. Does anyone know where I can find this info?
>
> Thanks
>
> Zoom

It's sort of fun to think what might be used to dilute tea. Grass
clippings from the front yard? the other kind of grass? Cut up weed
leaves? There are a couple of teas I've had where I suspect tobacco.
And no telling what's in puehr. Toci
Space Cowboy wrote:
> Tea names are finished agricultural goods sold on the open market. Tea
> brands are packaging names. Puerh factories might be the exception
> that take raw tea material and produce a finished product like a
> canning factory. There are questions where say more Dareeling is
> consumed than sold or what makes a tea organic or why two English
> Breakfasts taste different. But tea is tea if it is camellia sinensis.
> The tea industry doesn't work the way I understand your question.
>
> Jim
>
> Zoom wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > There are so many green and white teas on the market, it is difficult to
> > ascertain which is the most authentic in terms of purity of the tea. I
> > haven't seen any studies that comparies that various teas in terms of which
> > brand are least processed and have the most authentic leaves with minimal
> > processing. Does anyone know where I can find this info?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Zoom

Weed and tobacco are cheaper than tea. I've never seen one example of
alien adulteration. If you suspect something just look at the dry and
spent leaf for any inconsistencies. You'll have to take someone's word
when it comes to fines and dust but uniform color and particulate is a
minimum. I did find more expensive cork than cheap puerh in tea bags.
Maybe the original poster is confused between what the general public
means for tea versus what we mean in this group. I worked in a canning
factory during college and anything can come down those shutes. I
imagine puerh processing might be similar.

Jim

toci wrote:
> It's sort of fun to think what might be used to dilute tea. Grass
> clippings from the front yard? the other kind of grass? Cut up weed
> leaves? There are a couple of teas I've had where I suspect tobacco.
> And no telling what's in puehr. Toci
> Space Cowboy wrote:
> > Tea names are finished agricultural goods sold on the open market. Tea
> > brands are packaging names. Puerh factories might be the exception
> > that take raw tea material and produce a finished product like a
> > canning factory. There are questions where say more Dareeling is
> > consumed than sold or what makes a tea organic or why two English
> > Breakfasts taste different. But tea is tea if it is camellia sinensis.
> > The tea industry doesn't work the way I understand your question.
> >
> > Jim

Okay more expensive. They would probably be cheaper if not the cost of
criminal justice for weed and taxes for tobacco.

Jim

Space Cowboy wrote:
> Weed and tobacco are cheaper than tea.

Space 11/1/05


> Okay more expensive. They would probably be cheaper if not the cost of
> criminal justice for weed and taxes for tobacco.
>
> Jim

We are well aware that interdiction drives prices up, leading to bigger
profits for the distributer. I can't speak to the tobacco issue.

In article om>,
Space Cowboy > wrote:
>Weed and tobacco are cheaper than tea. I've never seen one example of
>alien adulteration.

Oh, man. Somebody's cut this mao feng with marijuana again....
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

The European Unions common agricultural support policy gives grants to
greek tobacco producers. The tobacco they produce is however not of
the kind that is consumed in the western world and essentially unsellable.

Therefore, a few years ago they tried to push it as an new and interresting
vegetable! People who, as a part of their journalistic proffesion in
general, tried
tobacco sauce and tobacco sallad were not impressed. Greek tobacco is not
on European dinner tables. So, where is it?

/Mårten

"toci" > skrev i meddelandet
ups.com...
> It's sort of fun to think what might be used to dilute tea. Grass
> clippings from the front yard? the other kind of grass? Cut up weed
> leaves? There are a couple of teas I've had where I suspect tobacco.
> And no telling what's in puehr. Toci
> Space Cowboy wrote:
>> Tea names are finished agricultural goods sold on the open market. Tea
>> brands are packaging names. Puerh factories might be the exception
>> that take raw tea material and produce a finished product like a
>> canning factory. There are questions where say more Dareeling is
>> consumed than sold or what makes a tea organic or why two English
>> Breakfasts taste different. But tea is tea if it is camellia sinensis.
>> The tea industry doesn't work the way I understand your question.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Zoom wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > There are so many green and white teas on the market, it is difficult
>> > to
>> > ascertain which is the most authentic in terms of purity of the tea. I
>> > haven't seen any studies that comparies that various teas in terms of
>> > which
>> > brand are least processed and have the most authentic leaves with
>> > minimal
>> > processing. Does anyone know where I can find this info?
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Zoom
>

Mårten Nilsson > wrote:
>The European Unions common agricultural support policy gives grants to
>greek tobacco producers. The tobacco they produce is however not of
>the kind that is consumed in the western world and essentially unsellable.
>
>Therefore, a few years ago they tried to push it as an new and interresting
>vegetable! People who, as a part of their journalistic proffesion in
>general, tried
>tobacco sauce and tobacco sallad were not impressed. Greek tobacco is not
>on European dinner tables. So, where is it?

Here in Virginia, we also grow a lot of tobacco. The higher grade stuff
winds up in cigarettes and pipes, with lower grade tobaccos often winding
up in highly-flavoured cigars. But a lot of the worst tobacco is sold
for industrial applications. They extract the pure nicotine, which is
used as a pesticide.

I don't know where the tobacco used for making snuff comes from, but
I would not be surprised to hear that was another place where poorer
quality leaves wind up.

In the 18th century, tobacco was also used for all sorts of medicinal
purposes. Standard practice for a dislocated hip was to give a tobacco
enema, which would pretty much paralyze the whole area long enough for
the joint to be popped back into place.
--scott

"Yogurt and bean sprouts? That stuff causes cancer. Here, have a cigar.
It's the best thing you can put in your body."
-- physician in 2025, from the movie _Sleeper_
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In the 18th century, tobacco was also used for all sorts of
> medicinal purposes. Standard practice for a dislocated hip was
> to give a tobacco enema, which would pretty much paralyze the
> whole area long enough for the joint to be popped back into
> place.

Combining the two off-topic themes of enemas and legal highs, I
submit this:

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=1946

--crymad

[Zoom]
> There are so many green and white teas on the market, it is difficult to
> ascertain which is the most authentic in terms of purity of the tea. I
> haven't seen any studies that comparies that various teas in terms of which
> brand are least processed and have the most authentic leaves with minimal
> processing. Does anyone know where I can find this info?

[Michael]
Freshness is a bigger issue, I think. You will get fresh, well kept green
tea with pedigree from <http://silkroadteas.com/>. (Don't forget that final
"s" in the URL or you will pull up the wrong web site.) They have a
selection from most areas of China.

Authenticity can of course mean many things. Adulterated, or not. From the
region and of the type advertised, or not. Harvested in the year stated, or
not. If you are relatively new to green tea, I would recommend making sure
your green tea is fresh, and less on the other aspects. Adulteration is
rare. Also, brew at a lower temperature so as not to ruin the tea. (Green
tea brewed in boiling water is destroyed green tea; you will have prepared
something more akin to spinach soup.) Hit around 170 to start and work your
way up or down.

Don't buy green tea in supermarkets or grocery stores since they cannot and
will not keep it fresh.

Michael

I'll take foil, nitrogen packs, sealed tins anyday over zip lock bags
from the websites probably filled from open containers because it is
inconvenient to put the lid back on each time. My local tea shoppe has
a packager with some empty volume reduction and air tight seal and
filled directly from 2kg nitrogen packs.

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
snip-a-thon
> Don't buy green tea in supermarkets or grocery stores since they cannot and
> will not keep it fresh.
>
> Michael

Space 11/1/05


> I'll take foil, nitrogen packs, sealed tins anyday over zip lock bags
> from the websites probably filled from open containers because it is
> inconvenient to put the lid back on each time. My local tea shoppe has
> a packager with some empty volume reduction and air tight seal and
> filled directly from 2kg nitrogen packs.

Jim,

If you note, I did *not* say don't buy tea from your local "tea shoppe"; I
said from a supermarket or grocery store. It sounds as though your local
tea shoppe owner is careful, caring, and resourceful. No offense.

I agree with you about many, though not all, of the web sites.

Michael

I countered with the implication I don't see a problem with buying from
a supermarket and grocery store. My local tea shoppe doesn't do
foil,nitrogen pack,or tin packaging. However that packaging is better
than anything I've seen for loose tea.

Jim

Michael Plant wrote:
> Space 11/1/05
>
>
> > I'll take foil, nitrogen packs, sealed tins anyday over zip lock bags
> > from the websites probably filled from open containers because it is
> > inconvenient to put the lid back on each time. My local tea shoppe has
> > a packager with some empty volume reduction and air tight seal and
> > filled directly from 2kg nitrogen packs.
>
> Jim,
>
> If you note, I did *not* say don't buy tea from your local "tea shoppe"; I
> said from a supermarket or grocery store. It sounds as though your local
> tea shoppe owner is careful, caring, and resourceful. No offense.
>
> I agree with you about many, though not all, of the web sites.
>
> Michael

>> I'll take foil, nitrogen packs, sealed tins anyday over zip lock bags
>> from the websites probably filled from open containers because it is
>> inconvenient to put the lid back on each time. My local tea shoppe has
>> a packager with some empty volume reduction and air tight seal and
>> filled directly from 2kg nitrogen packs.
>
>Jim,
>
>If you note, I did *not* say don't buy tea from your local "tea shoppe"; I
>said from a supermarket or grocery store. It sounds as though your local
>tea shoppe owner is careful, caring, and resourceful. No offense.
>
>I agree with you about many, though not all, of the web sites.
>
>Michael

Hmmm, I missed the original post, my filter must have got it. Anyway I
have researched packaging quite a bit, both in the course of my job
and in the pursuit of my hobby. I have rigged the appropriate
apparatus in my home to do vacuum sealing and/or nitrogen sparging on
all of my perishable teas. See http://www.pu-erh.net/stash-nitro.html
for a pictorial. I have also used iron-oxide oxygen scavengers but
they are inconvenient unless you are doing a lot of packages.

Jim's statement IMHO is based more on web-o-phobia that it is in fact.
There is little difference between a good refillable container and an
opened nitro-pack. The tea in a nitro-pack is only maintained at the
peak of freshness until you OPEN the bag. Once you open the nitro-pack
the very first time all of the nitrogen is displaced by air containing
oxygen and the tea starts going stale at that point. Every time you
reopen the foil Ziploc bag more fresh oxygen is introduced. Tea can
become just as stale in this manner as in a double lidded tin for
example. Either container can also be left open by negligent vendors.
The fact is that most vendors get their tea in these nitro-packs
unless they are buying in chest quantities, some dump the nitro-pack
in another container once opened because many larger nitro-packs are
simply barrier mylar bags without a Ziploc.

Whether the tea starts out in a chest or a nitro-pack depends on the
teas origins. For example most Japanese teas are nitro packed as soon
as they are processed, while many Darjeeling estate teas are packaged
into foil lined chests, or mylar bags within a chest. Many of those
2-5 kg nitro-packs are simply repacked from an opened chest. Sparging
with nitrogen is no big deal, I do it in my own basement all the time.

The important issue is how conscious a vendor is about keeping his/her
stock protected from air/light/temperatures etc. A web vendor can be
just as conscious as a brick and mortar shop, and either one can be
just as negligent. The one advantage to brick and mortar shops is that
you can see first hand how well they store their teas, where on a web
based shop you never really know. The worst methods tend to be the
five gallon tins in these trendy grocery stores, or the one gallon
clear glass cookie jars used by some small coffee shops, it is
impossible to maintain a proper stock rotation that way so unless the
tea moves at a phenomenal rate it will be seriously degraded.

Now how a vendor then packages your individual portion of tea is
another matter. One vendor (http://www.silkroadteas.com/) notable for
selling very high-end teas uses Ziploc bags, but their tea tends to be
so high quality to begin with that most others pale in comparison even
if vacuum packed. On the other hand I have seen a local Tea Shoppe who
kept their tea in the original opened chests and then vacuum sealed
your portion, vacuum sealed stale tea is still stale! I like the
Japanese method where they package the tea in nitrogen sparged
end-consumer packages at the processing plant. Of course you are then
limited to the specific sizes offered, usually 100g. Short of that I
think the "high barrier" mylar Ziploc bags are the best for
maintaining whatever freshness *is left* in the tea. Nitrogen sparging
that barrier bag is even better.

The moral of this story is "know thy vendor"! Online versus Brick and
Mortar is irrelevant, its all about the knowledge, skill, and
integrity of the vendor.

For more information on packaging materials and other considerations
for protecting freshness check out
http://www.sorbentsystems.com/mylar.html Fish around on this site as
it is VERY educational. No relation just a long time customer.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net

I know when I open my nitro-pack. You can trust the website. My $18
2003 Xiaguan QiZi bundle from Chinatown is now selling for $10/beeng on
TaoBao. I think the obsolete Zhong Cha logo is driving the price more
than the age. I take this and add some nearly six year old XG green
and it comes close to Baoyan.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
> Space Cowboy wrote:
> >> I'll take foil, nitrogen packs, sealed tins anyday over zip lock bags
> >> from the websites probably filled from open containers because it is
> >> inconvenient to put the lid back on each time.

> Jim's statement IMHO is based more on web-o-phobia that it is in fact.
> There is little difference between a good refillable container and an
> opened nitro-pack. The tea in a nitro-pack is only maintained at the
> peak of freshness until you OPEN the bag.

Also, some Japanese tea companies refrigerate their tea.
http://www.japanesegreenteaonline.com/faq2.htm (1 degree Centigrade)
http://www.zencha.net/ (cold storage)
http://www.o-cha.com/green-tea-faqs2.htm (cold storage)


>Mike Petro > wrote in
>...
> I like the Japanese method where they package the tea
> in nitrogen sparged end-consumer packages at the processing plant.
>...

Zoom wrote:
> Hi,
>
> There are so many green and white teas on the market, it is difficult to
> ascertain which is the most authentic in terms of purity of the tea. I
> haven't seen any studies that comparies that various teas in terms of which
> brand are least processed and have the most authentic leaves with minimal
> processing. Does anyone know where I can find this info?
>
> Thanks
>
> Zoom
Hi Zoom,
Here is a link to one place I buy tea, many tea vendors have areas on
their sites comparing the differences in white, green etc...
http://www.jingteashop.com/tea_types.cfm
It seems that white is the very least processed from all the info I
have read. But google white tea vs green tea and you may find out what
you wnat to know.
Jenn