Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
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Default Tie Guan Yin classification information.

I'm not sure if you guys know about this or not, so sorry if I'm
beating a dead horse by posting it.

I learned that Tie Guan Yin, like most tea, has many different types,
categories, and grades. But, the 3 more common types of Tie Guan Yin
are qing xiang, shu xiang, and ban shu xiang. Qing xiang can be
described as the original (also most famous) flavor of TGY and if you
are familar with Guan Yin Wang you know this flavor. It is fired and
rolled in the normal way. Shu xiang is cooked on top of charcoal and
has a slightly stronger flavor that can resemble flowers or wood. Ban
shu xiang basically just means in between the first two categories and
is a combination of flavors.

qing = clean and clear; original.
shu = cooked.
ban = half; ban shu = half cooked using the shu xiang method.
xiang = a pleasant scent.

Anyone have more to add on this?

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Space Cowboy
 
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I can't add to this directly. In the West you see TGY grading terms
such as Phoenix#1, Imperial Gold, Supreme, Premium, Grade A,B,C. I
could go to Chinatown and walk away with 50 different tins of TGY with
no grading information. In my experience TGY ranges from light to
heavy oxidation. I've bought greens in the first four categories and
more oxidation in the Grade categories AKA restaurant tea. I came
across a TGY description of three leaves and a bud on a rolled stem.
It wasn't graded in any of the above categories and of course sold out.
I'm currently drinking TGY from a commercial tin with whole rolled
leaves that infused to a dark green. The restaurant versions of TGY
remind me of a poor man's cooked puerh. Your description may appear on
the commercial tins but I don't know the characters and haven't seen
your transliteration. I didn't find out till last year I could buy TGY
other than restaurant grade. Since then the greens have become one of
my favorite teas. Sorry about the echo I hit the Google Post Message
accidently.

Jim

Mydnight wrote:
> I'm not sure if you guys know about this or not, so sorry if I'm
> beating a dead horse by posting it.
>
> I learned that Tie Guan Yin, like most tea, has many different types,
> categories, and grades. But, the 3 more common types of Tie Guan Yin
> are qing xiang, shu xiang, and ban shu xiang. Qing xiang can be
> described as the original (also most famous) flavor of TGY and if you
> are familar with Guan Yin Wang you know this flavor. It is fired and
> rolled in the normal way. Shu xiang is cooked on top of charcoal and
> has a slightly stronger flavor that can resemble flowers or wood.

Ban
> shu xiang basically just means in between the first two categories

and
> is a combination of flavors.
>
> qing = clean and clear; original.
> shu = cooked.
> ban = half; ban shu = half cooked using the shu xiang method.
> xiang = a pleasant scent.
>
> Anyone have more to add on this?


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kuri
 
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"Mydnight" > wrote in message


> But, the 3 more common types of Tie Guan Yin
> are qing xiang, shu xiang, and ban shu xiang.


Those types are sometimes described by color ? That's the indication I get
when I buy TGY.

> qing = clean and clear; original.


that would be golden ?

> shu = cooked.


Red ?

> ban = half; ban shu = half cooked using the shu xiang method.


Orange ?

Kuri

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Space Cowboy
 
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TGY is just a style of leaf. Every TGY I've tasted is different
enough. The only thing consistent about TGY taste there is no
consistency. I'm drinking a cheapo version maybe described with your
'shu(x?)iang' on the box and it is very pleasant and mild. The leaves
are broken and dark. This box also has jia after shuiang. I've
learned to look for that on boxes because whatever the tea it means
'very good'.

Jim

Mydnight wrote:
> The grading system is different from what I mentioned above, sorry if

I
> was a little unclear; these are just the 3 most common types of TYG.
> The actual grading system is a very complicated process that can go

as
> far as what tree the leaf was picked from. To appreciate TYG fully,
> you must look at a few things:
>
>
> 1. The color of the unbrewed leaf and the quality of how it was
> rolled.
> 2. The smell after brewed.
> 3. The leaf quality after brewed; are any of the leaves brown around
> the edges or have holes in them, etc?
> 4. The taste.
>
> I'm not sure how to tell the high grade from the mid grade yet, but

I'm
> working on it.


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Ripon
 
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I have been searching for an authentic information about types of Ti
Guan Yin for a last couple of years, until now. I don't know any "Tea
master" who can give me a ready made answer-. I don't know if there
are any classification of TGY. The highest grade of TGY was sold last
year in TGY oolong competition- US$43,000 per pound. The price doesn't
mean this TGY had some touch of heaven. It was a very good tea but the
people who buy this tea, it is more then social statues rather then buy
quality(I mean compare a Rolls Royce with Toyota Corolla). I wasn't so
interested to learn about tea while I was visiting China last time but
I talked with my friends(Chinese) and they gave me the above
explanation about award winning tea.

I agree with Michael about the Taiwan and Anxi(Fujian) version of TGY
but there is another TGY Oolong come from Guangdong province- Shantou
Oolong. The recent information is- a lot of mainland Chinese producers
are trying to follow Taiwanese Oolong processing after their success of
Ali Shan, Nantou and Shan li shan Oolong in the market. I also got some
curled Bai Hao Oolong which has lot of similarity with Taiwanese Bai
Hao(Oriental beauty) Oolong, the difference is this Chinese Bai Hao
Oolong leaves are curled(sort of gunpowder green). I think lot of
things are going on in Oolong processing both in mainland and Taiwan
island. I will blame some commercial vendors who add extra fancy,
fancy, supreme, premium, special grade etc. etc. extra word with Ti
Guan Yin.

Space Cowboy(Jim) many time talked about his super market tea
adventure. Lot of his explanation make sense to me. TGY is a widely
available tea but Michael- do you remember how many types of TGY we
have tried from SRT and found only #37 was satisfactory? Remember we
tried two of my TGY and one was excellent and other was very light. As
far as I know those award winning mainland TGY Oolongs are mostly
30-40% oxidized. Yes, I agree some heavily roasted espresso Oolong are
also good with nice caramel, sweet, fruity, complex flavore. Do you
think any Chinese will know espresso Oolong? I don't think so. I think
the best way to describe TGY is two types-

-Heavily roasted
-lightly roasted

I still don't have a straight forward answer rather then to share my
limited knowledge about what I look from a good Ti Guan Yin:

Dry leaves: bright green with wonderful fresh aroma
Brewed leaves: very dark green
Liquor: clear, light shiny golden for lightly roasted / clear, golden
for heavily roasted
Taste: fruity, sweet, 100% smooth, peach aroma, sometimes with honey
tone for lightly roasted/ heavily roasted has more complex taste,
caramel flavor with considerable peach and honey tone, some can have
slight roasty aroma.
Aroma:deep, rich and very clear.
Steeps: A good TGY both light and heavy version should minimum give
8-10 steeping.

I hope more people will add their though and tea knowledge about this
interesting post. Mydnight, thank you for this thread. Aren't you in
China now? What the local tea masters say?

Ripon
Maputo, Mozambique

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Mydnight
 
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>Those types are sometimes described by color ? That's the indication I
get
>when I buy TGY.


I was meaning the color of the leaves in their rolled state should have
a fairly consistent dark/light green color.

This was the pinyin transcription from the Chiense characters of the
words I used from above; it had nothing to do with color:

qing = clean and clear; original.
shu = cooked.
ban = half; ban shu = half cooked using the shu xiang method.
xiang = a pleasant scent.

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
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>TGY was a
>varietal associated with Taiwan and with Anxi (sp?) County in Fujian,

and
>that it could be processed in a variety of ways leading to different

tastes,
>all under the general aegis of Oolong.


Yes you are right, sir; well said.

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Mydnight
 
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>TGY was a
>varietal associated with Taiwan and with Anxi (sp?) County in Fujian,

and
>that it could be processed in a variety of ways leading to different

tastes,
>all under the general aegis of Oolong.


Yes you are right, sir; well said.



  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
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Few tea masters here, but more tea business guys. I have been able to
locate one guy that has experience with starting tea plants from
scratch and finishing them to production. The main idea he kept
repeating was which tree the tea was picked from and how early in the
season it was for that picking. The spring pick is always the best.

I am unsure how exactly they 'grade' the TGY explain such a high cost,
but it has much to do with hui gan and xiang wei (the residual flavor
and the scent). I'll find out more about exactly how the price the tea
out later.

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Mydnight
 
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Few tea masters here, but more tea business guys. I have been able to
locate one guy that has experience with starting tea plants from
scratch and finishing them to production. The main idea he kept
repeating was which tree the tea was picked from and how early in the
season it was for that picking. The spring pick is always the best.

I am unsure how exactly they 'grade' the TGY explain such a high cost,
but it has much to do with hui gan and xiang wei (the residual flavor
and the scent). I'll find out more about exactly how the price the tea
out later.

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
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Default

Few tea masters here, but more tea business guys. I have been able to
locate one guy that has experience with starting tea plants from
scratch and finishing them to production. The main idea he kept
repeating was which tree the tea was picked from and how early in the
season it was for that picking. The spring pick is always the best.

I am unsure how exactly they 'grade' the TGY explain such a high cost,
but it has much to do with hui gan and xiang wei (the residual flavor
and the scent). I'll find out more about exactly how they price the
tea out later.

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Few tea masters here, but more tea business guys. I have been able to
locate one guy that has experience with starting tea plants from
scratch and finishing them to production. The main idea he kept
repeating was which tree the tea was picked from and how early in the
season it was for that picking. The spring pick is always the best.

I am unsure how exactly they 'grade' the TGY explain such a high cost,
but it has much to do with hui gan and xiang wei (the residual flavor
and the scent). I'll find out more about exactly how they price the
tea out later.

  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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hi all,

ti kuan yin is a type of oolong which when brewed many times, each time
comes with a unique taste. for good ti kuan yin, the more times it is
brewed again, the stronger and more roasted the taste becomes.

hence such good ti kuan yin is what "mymidnight" refers to as "qing."

  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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hi all,

ti kuan yin is a type of oolong which when brewed many times, each time
comes with a unique taste. for good ti kuan yin, the more times it is
brewed again, the stronger and more roasted the taste becomes.

hence such good ti kuan yin is what "mymidnight" refers to as "qing."

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SEb
 
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TGY is the name of the tea tree race that is normally used to produce
the tea that also carries the same name.

There are 2 TGY tea tree race categories
>From the original varietal (1 varietal):

- Hong Xin (red heart) GY also called Hong Yang (red look) GY

>From grafts (5 varietals in the Cha Jing and surely more):

- Hong Ying (red spear's feather) GY
- Bai Xin Wei (white heart tail) GY
- Bai Yang (white look) GY
- Qing Xin (green heart) GY
- Bao Ye (thin leaves) GY

Level of fermentation (or oxidization) is between 35% and 50% (this is
the most important step in the making of TGY tea)

Nowadays, TGY is mainly classified into 3 categories:
- Qing Xiang: Lightly roasted
Lightly roasted is also called new techniques in mainland China. It was
originally imported from Taiwan and got popular because of its success
in the western countries and also because of the fresh taste fits the
youngest tea drinkers.

- Zhong Shu Xiang: medium roasted
The medium roasted is right between the lightly and the well roasted
one. It mixed the two characters of each, so it is a golden mean, and
it is the one that consume for the market.

- Shu Xiang: well roasted
Well (heavily) roasted is what called traditional techniques. It is the
way how the TGY has been roasted at all times. Using charcoal fire is
the main concept for this traditional version.

TGY has been proved that it contains the most variety of aromas. That
explains the various fragrances in TGY, especially when it is brewed in
low to medium temperature.

>From what I have learned and what I have understood for now, to enjoy a

good cup of TGY, this is what I need to have in my cup no matter it is
the new technique or the traditional techniques:
- Appearance: evenly rolled, heavy with fresh and shiny green color. It
is perfect if it has a lightly, evenly frosted look on the surface.
- Smell of the dry leaves: a calm and unhurriedly fragrance with an
acid hint.
- Liquor: golden to yellow, thick, rich but clear. It appears a pectic
surface when the liquor gets cold.
- Taste: pure and mellow, sweet and fresh, with a silky and thick
smooth feel to the tongue and the throat. It has a fruity or floral
aroma, a honey hint at the end and it is long lasted.
- Aroma: high quality TGY doesn't show a superficial or swanky aroma
but deep and graceful. Usually, it holds a subtle orchid fragrance and
it sinks to the bottom of the cup, long lasted.
- After taste: this is what matters the most with TGY, and this
aftertaste is what called "GY Yun (lingering charm of TGY)". A high
quality TGY has an obvious "Yun" which is a pleasant acid touch, a
bit like the megranate taste and also contains a dimly discernible
flavor that brings saliva after drinking.

A Chinese saying goes: "Se Zhong pin qi xiang, Guan Yin pin qi
yun", which means "the high fragrance is the thing to enjoy when
you drink Se Zhong (another variety of Anxi Oolong, ex. Ben Shan, Mao
Xie), and when you drink Tie Guan Yin, you should enjoy its
aftertaste."

Jing

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SEb
 
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TGY is the name of the tea tree race that is normally used to produce
the tea that also carries the same name.

There are 2 TGY tea tree race categories
>From the original varietal (1 varietal):

- Hong Xin (red heart) GY also called Hong Yang (red look) GY

>From grafts (5 varietals in the Cha Jing and surely more):

- Hong Ying (red spear's feather) GY
- Bai Xin Wei (white heart tail) GY
- Bai Yang (white look) GY
- Qing Xin (green heart) GY
- Bao Ye (thin leaves) GY

Level of fermentation (or oxidization) is between 35% and 50% (this is
the most important step in the making of TGY tea)

Nowadays, TGY is mainly classified into 3 categories:
- Qing Xiang: Lightly roasted
Lightly roasted is also called new techniques in mainland China. It was
originally imported from Taiwan and got popular because of its success
in the western countries and also because of the fresh taste fits the
youngest tea drinkers.

- Zhong Shu Xiang: medium roasted
The medium roasted is right between the lightly and the well roasted
one. It mixed the two characters of each, so it is a golden mean, and
it is the one that consume for the market.

- Shu Xiang: well roasted
Well (heavily) roasted is what called traditional techniques. It is the
way how the TGY has been roasted at all times. Using charcoal fire is
the main concept for this traditional version.

TGY has been proved that it contains the most variety of aromas. That
explains the various fragrances in TGY, especially when it is brewed in
low to medium temperature.

>From what I have learned and what I have understood for now, to enjoy a

good cup of TGY, this is what I need to have in my cup no matter it is
the new technique or the traditional techniques:
- Appearance: evenly rolled, heavy with fresh and shiny green color. It
is perfect if it has a lightly, evenly frosted look on the surface.
- Smell of the dry leaves: a calm and unhurriedly fragrance with an
acid hint.
- Liquor: golden to yellow, thick, rich but clear. It appears a pectic
surface when the liquor gets cold.
- Taste: pure and mellow, sweet and fresh, with a silky and thick
smooth feel to the tongue and the throat. It has a fruity or floral
aroma, a honey hint at the end and it is long lasted.
- Aroma: high quality TGY doesn't show a superficial or swanky aroma
but deep and graceful. Usually, it holds a subtle orchid fragrance and
it sinks to the bottom of the cup, long lasted.
- After taste: this is what matters the most with TGY, and this
aftertaste is what called "GY Yun (lingering charm of TGY)". A high
quality TGY has an obvious "Yun" which is a pleasant acid touch, a
bit like the megranate taste and also contains a dimly discernible
flavor that brings saliva after drinking.

A Chinese saying goes: "Se Zhong pin qi xiang, Guan Yin pin qi
yun", which means "the high fragrance is the thing to enjoy when
you drink Se Zhong (another variety of Anxi Oolong, ex. Ben Shan, Mao
Xie), and when you drink Tie Guan Yin, you should enjoy its
aftertaste."

Jing



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Michael Plant
 
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Useless comments, and some questions, interspersed below.
Michael



3/22/05


>
> TGY is the name of the tea tree race that is normally used to produce
> the tea that also carries the same name.
>
> There are 2 TGY tea tree race categories
>> From the original varietal (1 varietal):

> - Hong Xin (red heart) GY also called Hong Yang (red look) GY
>
>> From grafts (5 varietals in the Cha Jing and surely more):

> - Hong Ying (red spear's feather) GY
> - Bai Xin Wei (white heart tail) GY
> - Bai Yang (white look) GY
> - Qing Xin (green heart) GY
> - Bao Ye (thin leaves) GY


Very interesting, Jing. Could you explain where the grafts come from, what
their origin is?
>
> Level of fermentation (or oxidization) is between 35% and 50% (this is
> the most important step in the making of TGY tea)
>
> Nowadays, TGY is mainly classified into 3 categories:
> - Qing Xiang: Lightly roasted
> Lightly roasted is also called new techniques in mainland China. It was
> originally imported from Taiwan and got popular because of its success
> in the western countries and also because of the fresh taste fits the
> youngest tea drinkers.


It might be a new technique, but these teas appear to be winning the grand
prizes and pulling in big bucks, even on the mainland. Or so I've been told.
>
> - Zhong Shu Xiang: medium roasted
> The medium roasted is right between the lightly and the well roasted
> one. It mixed the two characters of each, so it is a golden mean, and
> it is the one that consume for the market.


This is where I'd expect that soft sweet fruited character, right? It's a
tricky area, I think, because it leads to some remarkably tastey and some
incredibly lousy teas.
>
> - Shu Xiang: well roasted
> Well (heavily) roasted is what called traditional techniques. It is the
> way how the TGY has been roasted at all times. Using charcoal fire is
> the main concept for this traditional version.


I have a quarter pound of such a one on hand. I enjoy it, but if I were to
spend my life on a desert island with but one kind of TGY, it would be a
lighter roasted one. I have suggested that this more highly roasted TGY has
less subtlety and nuance than its lighter roasted brothers. My tea master
and buddy calls to my attention that the complexity of this tea is surely
there, but in a different part of the spectrum.
>
> TGY has been proved that it contains the most variety of aromas. That
> explains the various fragrances in TGY, especially when it is brewed in
> low to medium temperature.


That's a strong recommendation for brewing these teas well below the boiling
point, a fact with which I would hardly disagree.
>


Jing, is this still you speaking below, or somebody else?

>> From what I have learned and what I have understood for now, to enjoy a

> good cup of TGY, this is what I need to have in my cup no matter it is
> the new technique or the traditional techniques:
> - Appearance: evenly rolled, heavy with fresh and shiny green color. It
> is perfect if it has a lightly, evenly frosted look on the surface.


But, as Jing said above, it could be quite dark, hardly green at all.

> - Smell of the dry leaves: a calm and unhurriedly fragrance with an
> acid hint.


Acid hint?

> - Liquor: golden to yellow, thick, rich but clear. It appears a pectic
> surface when the liquor gets cold.


Pectic, huh? Perhaps. I'll check out my cup. You mean a thick apperance,
right?

> - Taste: pure and mellow, sweet and fresh, with a silky and thick
> smooth feel to the tongue and the throat. It has a fruity or floral
> aroma, a honey hint at the end and it is long lasted.


That sounds like the medium roasted version Jing refers to above.

> - Aroma: high quality TGY doesn't show a superficial or swanky aroma
> but deep and graceful. Usually, it holds a subtle orchid fragrance and
> it sinks to the bottom of the cup, long lasted.


Hey, that's me! Superficial and swanky. No pride at all.

> - Aftertaste: this is what matters the most with TGY, and this
> aftertaste is what called "GY Yun (lingering charm of TGY)". A high
> quality TGY has an obvious "Yun" which is a pleasant acid touch, a
> bit like the megranate taste and also contains a dimly discernible
> flavor that brings saliva after drinking.


Perhaps this "acid" thing is astringency? I completely agree with your
statement here, by the way: aftertaste along with aroma are the sine qua non
of TGY.
>
> A Chinese saying goes: "Se Zhong pin qi xiang, Guan Yin pin qi
> yun", which means "the high fragrance is the thing to enjoy when
> you drink Se Zhong (another variety of Anxi Oolong, ex. Ben Shan, Mao
> Xie), and when you drink Tie Guan Yin, you should enjoy its
> aftertaste."


Oh, I thought it translates as, "Don't forget to take out the wash, and
please cook the rice before I get home." (Sorry.) On a more serious note,
would you pinpoint the year (approximately) when the *fisted* version of
Oolong first made its appearance in China? (I use "Oolong" as the general
catagory to which TGY belongs.)

Michael

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Michael Plant
 
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Useless comments, and some questions, interspersed below.
Michael



3/22/05


>
> TGY is the name of the tea tree race that is normally used to produce
> the tea that also carries the same name.
>
> There are 2 TGY tea tree race categories
>> From the original varietal (1 varietal):

> - Hong Xin (red heart) GY also called Hong Yang (red look) GY
>
>> From grafts (5 varietals in the Cha Jing and surely more):

> - Hong Ying (red spear's feather) GY
> - Bai Xin Wei (white heart tail) GY
> - Bai Yang (white look) GY
> - Qing Xin (green heart) GY
> - Bao Ye (thin leaves) GY


Very interesting, Jing. Could you explain where the grafts come from, what
their origin is?
>
> Level of fermentation (or oxidization) is between 35% and 50% (this is
> the most important step in the making of TGY tea)
>
> Nowadays, TGY is mainly classified into 3 categories:
> - Qing Xiang: Lightly roasted
> Lightly roasted is also called new techniques in mainland China. It was
> originally imported from Taiwan and got popular because of its success
> in the western countries and also because of the fresh taste fits the
> youngest tea drinkers.


It might be a new technique, but these teas appear to be winning the grand
prizes and pulling in big bucks, even on the mainland. Or so I've been told.
>
> - Zhong Shu Xiang: medium roasted
> The medium roasted is right between the lightly and the well roasted
> one. It mixed the two characters of each, so it is a golden mean, and
> it is the one that consume for the market.


This is where I'd expect that soft sweet fruited character, right? It's a
tricky area, I think, because it leads to some remarkably tastey and some
incredibly lousy teas.
>
> - Shu Xiang: well roasted
> Well (heavily) roasted is what called traditional techniques. It is the
> way how the TGY has been roasted at all times. Using charcoal fire is
> the main concept for this traditional version.


I have a quarter pound of such a one on hand. I enjoy it, but if I were to
spend my life on a desert island with but one kind of TGY, it would be a
lighter roasted one. I have suggested that this more highly roasted TGY has
less subtlety and nuance than its lighter roasted brothers. My tea master
and buddy calls to my attention that the complexity of this tea is surely
there, but in a different part of the spectrum.
>
> TGY has been proved that it contains the most variety of aromas. That
> explains the various fragrances in TGY, especially when it is brewed in
> low to medium temperature.


That's a strong recommendation for brewing these teas well below the boiling
point, a fact with which I would hardly disagree.
>


Jing, is this still you speaking below, or somebody else?

>> From what I have learned and what I have understood for now, to enjoy a

> good cup of TGY, this is what I need to have in my cup no matter it is
> the new technique or the traditional techniques:
> - Appearance: evenly rolled, heavy with fresh and shiny green color. It
> is perfect if it has a lightly, evenly frosted look on the surface.


But, as Jing said above, it could be quite dark, hardly green at all.

> - Smell of the dry leaves: a calm and unhurriedly fragrance with an
> acid hint.


Acid hint?

> - Liquor: golden to yellow, thick, rich but clear. It appears a pectic
> surface when the liquor gets cold.


Pectic, huh? Perhaps. I'll check out my cup. You mean a thick apperance,
right?

> - Taste: pure and mellow, sweet and fresh, with a silky and thick
> smooth feel to the tongue and the throat. It has a fruity or floral
> aroma, a honey hint at the end and it is long lasted.


That sounds like the medium roasted version Jing refers to above.

> - Aroma: high quality TGY doesn't show a superficial or swanky aroma
> but deep and graceful. Usually, it holds a subtle orchid fragrance and
> it sinks to the bottom of the cup, long lasted.


Hey, that's me! Superficial and swanky. No pride at all.

> - Aftertaste: this is what matters the most with TGY, and this
> aftertaste is what called "GY Yun (lingering charm of TGY)". A high
> quality TGY has an obvious "Yun" which is a pleasant acid touch, a
> bit like the megranate taste and also contains a dimly discernible
> flavor that brings saliva after drinking.


Perhaps this "acid" thing is astringency? I completely agree with your
statement here, by the way: aftertaste along with aroma are the sine qua non
of TGY.
>
> A Chinese saying goes: "Se Zhong pin qi xiang, Guan Yin pin qi
> yun", which means "the high fragrance is the thing to enjoy when
> you drink Se Zhong (another variety of Anxi Oolong, ex. Ben Shan, Mao
> Xie), and when you drink Tie Guan Yin, you should enjoy its
> aftertaste."


Oh, I thought it translates as, "Don't forget to take out the wash, and
please cook the rice before I get home." (Sorry.) On a more serious note,
would you pinpoint the year (approximately) when the *fisted* version of
Oolong first made its appearance in China? (I use "Oolong" as the general
catagory to which TGY belongs.)

Michael

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
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yun? Is this the Cantonese version of 'hui gan'?

Thank you for clearing up my info and saying again what I was trying to
say. heh.

  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
Posts: n/a
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One last thing:

> TGY has been proved that it contains the most variety of aromas. That


> explains the various fragrances in TGY, especially when it is brewed

in
> low to medium temperature.


I have to vastly disagree with this point. It's as hot as possible
when it comes to TGY; thus, the point of the yixing pots' ability to
retain heat. I've made the mistake of brewing TGY at a lower temp and
I didn't get much of a scent at all from that brewing and nearly ruined
the batch.

  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
Posts: n/a
Default

One last thing:

> TGY has been proved that it contains the most variety of aromas. That


> explains the various fragrances in TGY, especially when it is brewed

in
> low to medium temperature.


I have to vastly disagree with this point. It's as hot as possible
when it comes to TGY; thus, the point of the yixing pots' ability to
retain heat. I've made the mistake of brewing TGY at a lower temp and
I didn't get much of a scent at all from that brewing and nearly ruined
the batch.



  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Space Cowboy
 
Posts: n/a
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First I need to backtrack and say the distinctive leaf style I've
mentioned is a serated or sawtooth edge specific to the varietal. Some
leaf more pronounced that others. I'm still trying to account for the
different enough tea taste of every TGY I have on the shelf from cheap
to expensive, from commercial to tea shoppe. I don't discriminate I
use boiling water for every tea but fortunately at my altitude is only
200F. I think the three processing methods mentioned by Jing accounts
for some of it and the most informative post to date on the subject.
I'm now wondering if TGY can be considered a mountain oolong? I assume
the ANXI local in Fujian is part of the Wuyi mountain range. I have a
TGY called Xue Feng or Snow Peak. I'm familiar with the different
taste of Wuyi Rock Tea and high mountain teas from Taiwan. I've seen
mention of 100 meters being the minimum differnce to produce a
different taste from the same varietal. If TGY is a mountain oolong
then I can understand why a particular taste is so elusive.

Jim

PS:
While I'm here you usually don't quote who you're replying too. In
this case part of a quote which is better than nothing but most often
it seems like you're talking to yourself.

Mydnight wrote:
> One last thing:
>
> > TGY has been proved that it contains the most variety of aromas.

That
>
> > explains the various fragrances in TGY, especially when it is

brewed
> in
> > low to medium temperature.

>
> I have to vastly disagree with this point. It's as hot as possible
> when it comes to TGY; thus, the point of the yixing pots' ability to
> retain heat. I've made the mistake of brewing TGY at a lower temp

and
> I didn't get much of a scent at all from that brewing and nearly

ruined
> the batch.


  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lewis Perin
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Space Cowboy" > writes:

> First I need to backtrack and say the distinctive leaf style I've
> mentioned is a serated or sawtooth edge specific to the varietal. Some
> leaf more pronounced that others. I'm still trying to account for the
> different enough tea taste of every TGY I have on the shelf from cheap
> to expensive, from commercial to tea shoppe. I don't discriminate I
> use boiling water for every tea but fortunately at my altitude is only
> 200F. I think the three processing methods mentioned by Jing accounts
> for some of it and the most informative post to date on the subject.
> I'm now wondering if TGY can be considered a mountain oolong? I assume
> the ANXI local in Fujian is part of the Wuyi mountain range.


No, Anxi's in southern Fujian, Wuyi's in northern Fujian.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Space Cowboy
 
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I should have looked at a map. Anything not on the coastline is
mountains. You see references to Anxi Mountains in Anxi County.

Here is a local tea factory
http://www.ruyitea.com/htm/indexe.htm

You could have TGY in valleys, slopes, peaks contributing to a
different taste.

Jim

Lewis Perin wrote:
> "Space Cowboy" > writes:
>
> > First I need to backtrack and say the distinctive leaf style I've
> > mentioned is a serated or sawtooth edge specific to the varietal.

Some
> > leaf more pronounced that others. I'm still trying to account for

the
> > different enough tea taste of every TGY I have on the shelf from

cheap
> > to expensive, from commercial to tea shoppe. I don't discriminate

I
> > use boiling water for every tea but fortunately at my altitude is

only
> > 200F. I think the three processing methods mentioned by Jing

accounts
> > for some of it and the most informative post to date on the

subject.
> > I'm now wondering if TGY can be considered a mountain oolong? I

assume
> > the ANXI local in Fujian is part of the Wuyi mountain range.

>
> No, Anxi's in southern Fujian, Wuyi's in northern Fujian.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
>
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html




  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mydnight
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You'll have to give me some examples of this so I can try for
myself...I just keep remembering the underbrewed tea and cringe.

  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
SEb
 
Posts: n/a
Default

[Michael]
Very interesting, Jing. Could you explain where the grafts come from,
what their origin is?
[Jing]
According to some tea growers saying, there are around 30 different
kind of TGY, and the first TGY that was found and planted is called
"Zheng Cong GY". And now the one that is planted in "Nei
(inner)" Anxi area is called "Hong Xin GY" or "Hong Yang GY".
These are considered as have the best quality races and best quantity
are called "pure" race GY by tea farmers. The others are also TGY
races as well, but I couldn't find any acurate information on when
they come from. However, they are mainly the variations from the
"Hong Xin GY" that was mentioned above since the breed of TGY is
agamous. After coming through a long history and the different soil and
climate, it evolved in different races.

[Michael]
Jing, is this still you speaking below, or somebody else?
[Jing]
Yes, still me. :-)

[Michael]
Pectic, huh? Perhaps. I'll check out my cup. You mean a thick
apperance, right?

[Jing]
That was what I meant.

[Michael]
Perhaps this "acid" thing is astringency? I completely agree with your
statement here, by the way: aftertaste along with aroma are the sine
qua non of TGY.

[Jing]
Agree, I think is more correct to use astringency. And when this
character is obvious, you can almost have the feeling that your teeth
(or gum) are trembling.

[Michael]
Oh, I thought it translates as, "Don't forget to take out the wash, and
please cook the rice before I get home." (Sorry.) On a more serious
note, would you pinpoint the year (approximately) when the *fisted*
version of Oolong first made its appearance in China? (I use "Oolong"
as the general catagory to which TGY belongs.)

[Jing]
I was told by some local tea makers from the Anxi area that the
"fisted" version started to appear around 1992-1993 and got really
popular around 1995. Few days ago, I was also told by a tea dealer that
is dealing with some aged GY that was produced in 1992, and the shape
is still holding a "longer" stripe, very similar to Wuyi teas.

Jing

  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
SEb
 
Posts: n/a
Default

[Michael]
Very interesting, Jing. Could you explain where the grafts come from,
what their origin is?
[Jing]
According to some tea growers saying, there are around 30 different
kind of TGY, and the first TGY that was found and planted is called
"Zheng Cong GY". And now the one that is planted in "Nei
(inner)" Anxi area is called "Hong Xin GY" or "Hong Yang GY".
These are considered as have the best quality races and best quantity
are called "pure" race GY by tea farmers. The others are also TGY
races as well, but I couldn't find any acurate information on when
they come from. However, they are mainly the variations from the
"Hong Xin GY" that was mentioned above since the breed of TGY is
agamous. After coming through a long history and the different soil and
climate, it evolved in different races.

[Michael]
Jing, is this still you speaking below, or somebody else?
[Jing]
Yes, still me. :-)

[Michael]
Pectic, huh? Perhaps. I'll check out my cup. You mean a thick
apperance, right?

[Jing]
That was what I meant.

[Michael]
Perhaps this "acid" thing is astringency? I completely agree with your
statement here, by the way: aftertaste along with aroma are the sine
qua non of TGY.

[Jing]
Agree, I think is more correct to use astringency. And when this
character is obvious, you can almost have the feeling that your teeth
(or gum) are trembling.

[Michael]
Oh, I thought it translates as, "Don't forget to take out the wash, and
please cook the rice before I get home." (Sorry.) On a more serious
note, would you pinpoint the year (approximately) when the *fisted*
version of Oolong first made its appearance in China? (I use "Oolong"
as the general catagory to which TGY belongs.)

[Jing]
I was told by some local tea makers from the Anxi area that the
"fisted" version started to appear around 1992-1993 and got really
popular around 1995. Few days ago, I was also told by a tea dealer that
is dealing with some aged GY that was produced in 1992, and the shape
is still holding a "longer" stripe, very similar to Wuyi teas.

Jing

  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lewis Perin
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"SEb" > writes:

> [...]
> According to some tea growers saying, there are around 30 different
> kind of TGY, and the first TGY that was found and planted is called
> "Zheng Cong GY".


Cong means bush here, I imagine. What sense of Zheng is used?

> And now the one that is planted in "Nei
> (inner)" Anxi area is called "Hong Xin GY" or "Hong Yang GY".
> These are considered as have the best quality races and best quantity
> are called "pure" race GY by tea farmers. The others are also TGY
> races as well, but I couldn't find any acurate information on when
> they come from. However, they are mainly the variations from the
> "Hong Xin GY" that was mentioned above since the breed of TGY is
> agamous.


You mean the farmers use cloning exclusively to propagate the plants, right?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lewis Perin
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"SEb" > writes:

> [...]
> According to some tea growers saying, there are around 30 different
> kind of TGY, and the first TGY that was found and planted is called
> "Zheng Cong GY".


Cong means bush here, I imagine. What sense of Zheng is used?

> And now the one that is planted in "Nei
> (inner)" Anxi area is called "Hong Xin GY" or "Hong Yang GY".
> These are considered as have the best quality races and best quantity
> are called "pure" race GY by tea farmers. The others are also TGY
> races as well, but I couldn't find any acurate information on when
> they come from. However, they are mainly the variations from the
> "Hong Xin GY" that was mentioned above since the breed of TGY is
> agamous.


You mean the farmers use cloning exclusively to propagate the plants, right?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html


  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michael Plant
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> [Jing]
> According to some tea growers saying, there are around 30 different
> kind of TGY, and the first TGY that was found and planted is called
> "Zheng Cong GY". And now the one that is planted in "Nei
> (inner)" Anxi area is called "Hong Xin GY" or "Hong Yang GY".
> These are considered as have the best quality races and best quantity
> are called "pure" race GY by tea farmers. The others are also TGY
> races as well, but I couldn't find any acurate information on when
> they come from. However, they are mainly the variations from the
> "Hong Xin GY" that was mentioned above since the breed of TGY is
> agamous. After coming through a long history and the different soil and
> climate, it evolved in different races.


[Michael]
This is particularly interesting and makes me understand just complicated
this whole issue is. What's a poor drinker to do?

snip

> [Jing]
> I was told by some local tea makers from the Anxi area that the
> "fisted" version started to appear around 1992-1993 and got really
> popular around 1995. Few days ago, I was also told by a tea dealer that
> is dealing with some aged GY that was produced in 1992, and the shape
> is still holding a "longer" stripe, very similar to Wuyi teas.


[Michael]
Well, I had been drinking Tie Guan Yin starting around 1982 and the tea was
definitely fisted. So, I think either we mean two different things by the
word "fisted" or your information is not quite correct. (I use "fisted" to
mean tightly balled in a circular form rather than elongated and twisted.)

Michael

  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michael Plant
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> [Jing]
> According to some tea growers saying, there are around 30 different
> kind of TGY, and the first TGY that was found and planted is called
> "Zheng Cong GY". And now the one that is planted in "Nei
> (inner)" Anxi area is called "Hong Xin GY" or "Hong Yang GY".
> These are considered as have the best quality races and best quantity
> are called "pure" race GY by tea farmers. The others are also TGY
> races as well, but I couldn't find any acurate information on when
> they come from. However, they are mainly the variations from the
> "Hong Xin GY" that was mentioned above since the breed of TGY is
> agamous. After coming through a long history and the different soil and
> climate, it evolved in different races.


[Michael]
This is particularly interesting and makes me understand just complicated
this whole issue is. What's a poor drinker to do?

snip

> [Jing]
> I was told by some local tea makers from the Anxi area that the
> "fisted" version started to appear around 1992-1993 and got really
> popular around 1995. Few days ago, I was also told by a tea dealer that
> is dealing with some aged GY that was produced in 1992, and the shape
> is still holding a "longer" stripe, very similar to Wuyi teas.


[Michael]
Well, I had been drinking Tie Guan Yin starting around 1982 and the tea was
definitely fisted. So, I think either we mean two different things by the
word "fisted" or your information is not quite correct. (I use "fisted" to
mean tightly balled in a circular form rather than elongated and twisted.)

Michael

  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
SEb
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> [Michael]
> Well, I had been drinking Tie Guan Yin starting around 1982 and the

tea was
> definitely fisted. So, I think either we mean two different things by

the
> word "fisted" or your information is not quite correct. (I use

"fisted" to
> mean tightly balled in a circular form rather than elongated and

twisted.)

[Jing]
I think that we are talking about the same type of tea processing. The
two sources i asked to told me the same thing. I will now ask to people
who were working for the Chinese tea import and export company in the
1980's.

Jing

  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
SEb
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> [Michael]
> Well, I had been drinking Tie Guan Yin starting around 1982 and the

tea was
> definitely fisted. So, I think either we mean two different things by

the
> word "fisted" or your information is not quite correct. (I use

"fisted" to
> mean tightly balled in a circular form rather than elongated and

twisted.)

[Jing]
I think that we are talking about the same type of tea processing. The
two sources i asked to told me the same thing. I will now ask to people
who were working for the Chinese tea import and export company in the
1980's.

Jing

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