"Alex Chaihorsky" > wrote in message
. com...
> May be old argicultural societies of South-East Asia developed better
> carbohydrate metabolism than nomads of greater Asia and forest
> hunters-gatherers of Europe. I can say that Mongols are not at all as thin
> as Han Chinese. And Central Asia Asians (Uzbeks, Tazhik, Kazakhs, Turkmen)
> are the same way.

No doubt there are physical differences in body type between ethnicities.
People in equatorial regions tend to have long, thin limbs, whereas people
in subtropical regions tend to have shorter limbs and a stockier, heavier
appearance.

However, I suspect alot of the difference is that many people in Asia are
just more physically active (though China's rate of obesity in urban areas
is increasing, it is nowhere near the level in the US), and in many parts
the society is still agrarian.

10/14/04

>
>
> magnulus wrote:
>>
>> Many people have connecetd Chinese/Asian food with rice, but actually rice
>> was often eaten in large amounts because of poverty, and because the people
>> did alot of manual labor and physical activity (thus they burned more
>> calories, especially glucose/carbs, right away).
>
> Is this Atkins historical revisionism? In fact, in Japan at least, rice
> was not a mark of poverty, but rather a measure of wealth. A medieval
> fief's worth was counted in volume of rice. Most Asians today continue
> to eat rice or noodles (or bread) at every meal. Their lower incidence
> of obesity, compared to us Americans, is probably attributed to how much
> they eat -- and what they don't eat.
>
> --crymad

Quality of rice, according to the many people I spoke and ate with in my
wonderings years ago throughout India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, is a
matter of great national pride. In Afghanistan one person gently and
politely apologized for the poor quality of the rice he served, explaining
that it was in fact American rice. Undoubtedly rice, like water, is never
quite right away from home. I'm partial to Indian rice. I also have
developed quite a taste for Italian rice. By the way, when I was mucking
about India, nobody looked forward to the government enforced "no rice" days
caused by scarcities. We had to eat potato. Rice is *not* a sign of poverty,
that's for sure, although its absence might be. Consider also that a
vegetarian diet demands greater quanties of grains to balance proteins,
right? That seems a better explanation for large amounts of rice. Is it not
so that the word for "rice" and "food" are the same in Japanese? What about
Chinese? Rice. Yummy. I've never cooked Japanese rice, but I'm going to go
out of my way to find some.

Speaking of which, in New York City most of the Japanese restaurants are now
actually run and staffed by Chinese people. Hope nobody considers this
biased, biased though it be, but I eat only in Japanese restaurants owned
and staffed by Japanese people. This almost guarantees a reasonably high
quality.

Michael

Michael P. wrote:

>Consider also that a
>vegetarian diet demands greater quanties of grains to balance proteins,
>right?

I think that argument has been debunked. At least vegetarians don't have to
eat them all at the same meal, maybe just over the course of the day.
Something like that. (Speaking as a devil-may-care vegetarian.)

I'm sure you're right about regional differences and preferences in rice. What
I find interesting is that Asian populations are so taken with white, polished
rice. Seems to me perfectly analagous to Western white breads; so many
nutrients and fiber have been stripped away.

I use brown rice here at home, FWIW, and order it at Asian restaurants when
available.

Joe Kubera

(Joseph Kubera) writes:

> Michael P. wrote:
>
> >Consider also that a vegetarian diet demands greater quanties of
> >grains to balance proteins, right?
>
> I think that argument has been debunked. At least vegetarians don't have to
> eat them all at the same meal, maybe just over the course of the
> day.

Not to mention that grains have protein, too. The truth Michael was
reaching for, I think, was that grains and beans have different
distributions of essential amino acids (i.e. amino acids our bodies
can't synthesize), and as a result, by combining the two over a
reasonable period of time, you get more benefit out of the same amount
of protein.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Joseph Kubera wrote:
>
> I'm sure you're right about regional differences and preferences in rice. What
> I find interesting is that Asian populations are so taken with white, polished
> rice. Seems to me perfectly analagous to Western white breads; so many
> nutrients and fiber have been stripped away.

But brown rice spoils quickly, especially in warmer climates. And it
takes twice the time -- and fuel -- to cook. Also, brown rice is not a
joy to eat, giving one's jaws a workout with each musty, bitter, pasty
mouthful. That said, my Japanese mother-in-law ate brown rice at home.
But she's a bit of an odd bird.

For those who really demand the added nutrition, a grade of rice in
Japan called haiga-mai is a pleasant compromise. It has all the
nutrient-rich germ, but none of the coarse bran, so it cooks just like
standard white rice. And if you're eating your vegetables, who needs
the fiber anyway?

--crymad

Joseph Kubera wrote:
>
> I'm sure you're right about regional differences and preferences in rice. What
> I find interesting is that Asian populations are so taken with white, polished
> rice. Seems to me perfectly analagous to Western white breads; so many
> nutrients and fiber have been stripped away.

But brown rice spoils quickly, especially in warmer climates. And it
takes twice the time -- and fuel -- to cook. Also, brown rice is not a
joy to eat, giving one's jaws a workout with each musty, bitter, pasty
mouthful. That said, my Japanese mother-in-law ate brown rice at home.
But she's a bit of an odd bird.

For those who really demand the added nutrition, a grade of rice in
Japan called haiga-mai is a pleasant compromise. It has all the
nutrient-rich germ, but none of the coarse bran, so it cooks just like
standard white rice. And if you're eating your vegetables, who needs
the fiber anyway?

--crymad

(Joseph Kubera) writes:

> Michael P. wrote:
>
> >Consider also that a vegetarian diet demands greater quanties of
> >grains to balance proteins, right?
>
> I think that argument has been debunked. At least vegetarians don't have to
> eat them all at the same meal, maybe just over the course of the
> day.

Not to mention that grains have protein, too. The truth Michael was
reaching for, I think, was that grains and beans have different
distributions of essential amino acids (i.e. amino acids our bodies
can't synthesize), and as a result, by combining the two over a
reasonable period of time, you get more benefit out of the same amount
of protein.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Michael Plant wrote:

> Is it not
> so that the word for "rice" and "food" are the same in Japanese? What about
> Chinese? Rice. Yummy. I've never cooked Japanese rice, but I'm going to go
> out of my way to find some.

In Japanese, it's more like "rice" and "meal" being the same word. You
say you've never cooked Japanese rice, but surely you've eaten some at
restaurants, haven't you?

> Speaking of which, in New York City most of the Japanese restaurants are now
> actually run and staffed by Chinese people. Hope nobody considers this
> biased, biased though it be, but I eat only in Japanese restaurants owned
> and staffed by Japanese people. This almost guarantees a reasonably high
> quality.

I seem to have bad luck with with stumbling into Japanese restaurants
run by Koreans. We have a Japanese buffet-type place here that's quite
popular. As unappealing as all-you-can-eat Japanese sounds, I've been
told that also it is staffed entirely by Mexicans. I'll eat Mexican
food from a street stand without hesitation, but I want Japanese food
prepared by Japanese.

--crymad

10/15/04

>
>
> Michael Plant wrote:
>
>> Is it not
>> so that the word for "rice" and "food" are the same in Japanese? What about
>> Chinese? Rice. Yummy. I've never cooked Japanese rice, but I'm going to go
>> out of my way to find some.
>
> In Japanese, it's more like "rice" and "meal" being the same word. You
> say you've never cooked Japanese rice, but surely you've eaten some at
> restaurants, haven't you?

Yes, of course I have. And of course it seems just right for sushi and
sashimi. I'd like to try it in the at home context though.
>
>> Speaking of which, in New York City most of the Japanese restaurants are now
>> actually run and staffed by Chinese people. Hope nobody considers this
>> biased, biased though it be, but I eat only in Japanese restaurants owned
>> and staffed by Japanese people. This almost guarantees a reasonably high
>> quality.
>
> I seem to have bad luck with with stumbling into Japanese restaurants
> run by Koreans. We have a Japanese buffet-type place here that's quite
> popular. As unappealing as all-you-can-eat Japanese sounds, I've been
> told that also it is staffed entirely by Mexicans. I'll eat Mexican
> food from a street stand without hesitation, but I want Japanese food
> prepared by Japanese.

How about the myriad Mexican fast food places that are all over NYC now and
all run by Chinese families?

Michael

10/15/04

>
>
> Michael Plant wrote:
>
>> Is it not
>> so that the word for "rice" and "food" are the same in Japanese? What about
>> Chinese? Rice. Yummy. I've never cooked Japanese rice, but I'm going to go
>> out of my way to find some.
>
> In Japanese, it's more like "rice" and "meal" being the same word. You
> say you've never cooked Japanese rice, but surely you've eaten some at
> restaurants, haven't you?

Yes, of course I have. And of course it seems just right for sushi and
sashimi. I'd like to try it in the at home context though.
>
>> Speaking of which, in New York City most of the Japanese restaurants are now
>> actually run and staffed by Chinese people. Hope nobody considers this
>> biased, biased though it be, but I eat only in Japanese restaurants owned
>> and staffed by Japanese people. This almost guarantees a reasonably high
>> quality.
>
> I seem to have bad luck with with stumbling into Japanese restaurants
> run by Koreans. We have a Japanese buffet-type place here that's quite
> popular. As unappealing as all-you-can-eat Japanese sounds, I've been
> told that also it is staffed entirely by Mexicans. I'll eat Mexican
> food from a street stand without hesitation, but I want Japanese food
> prepared by Japanese.

How about the myriad Mexican fast food places that are all over NYC now and
all run by Chinese families?

Michael

Michael Plant wrote:

> Is it not
> so that the word for "rice" and "food" are the same in Japanese? What about
> Chinese? Rice. Yummy. I've never cooked Japanese rice, but I'm going to go
> out of my way to find some.

In Japanese, it's more like "rice" and "meal" being the same word. You
say you've never cooked Japanese rice, but surely you've eaten some at
restaurants, haven't you?

> Speaking of which, in New York City most of the Japanese restaurants are now
> actually run and staffed by Chinese people. Hope nobody considers this
> biased, biased though it be, but I eat only in Japanese restaurants owned
> and staffed by Japanese people. This almost guarantees a reasonably high
> quality.

I seem to have bad luck with with stumbling into Japanese restaurants
run by Koreans. We have a Japanese buffet-type place here that's quite
popular. As unappealing as all-you-can-eat Japanese sounds, I've been
told that also it is staffed entirely by Mexicans. I'll eat Mexican
food from a street stand without hesitation, but I want Japanese food
prepared by Japanese.

--crymad

Michael P. wrote:

>Consider also that a
>vegetarian diet demands greater quanties of grains to balance proteins,
>right?

I think that argument has been debunked. At least vegetarians don't have to
eat them all at the same meal, maybe just over the course of the day.
Something like that. (Speaking as a devil-may-care vegetarian.)

I'm sure you're right about regional differences and preferences in rice. What
I find interesting is that Asian populations are so taken with white, polished
rice. Seems to me perfectly analagous to Western white breads; so many
nutrients and fiber have been stripped away.

I use brown rice here at home, FWIW, and order it at Asian restaurants when
available.

Joe Kubera

The latest world health crisis obesity in China. I know pot bellied
European men in the early nineteenth century were considered wealthy.
The best diet, exercise. I overstuffed on dumplings at Black Eyed Pea
recently and a couple of cups of puerh immediately eliminated the
greasy bloated feeling. Better than any OTC medicine. I'll let you
know if it is good for heartburn.

Jim

crymad > wrote in message >...
> magnulus wrote:
> >
> > Many people have connecetd Chinese/Asian food with rice, but actually rice
> > was often eaten in large amounts because of poverty, and because the people
> > did alot of manual labor and physical activity (thus they burned more
> > calories, especially glucose/carbs, right away).
>
> Is this Atkins historical revisionism? In fact, in Japan at least, rice
> was not a mark of poverty, but rather a measure of wealth. A medieval
> fief's worth was counted in volume of rice. Most Asians today continue
> to eat rice or noodles (or bread) at every meal. Their lower incidence
> of obesity, compared to us Americans, is probably attributed to how much
> they eat -- and what they don't eat.
>
> --crymad

Abouna wrote:

> My father (a diabetic) has recently discovered the benefits of green
> tea and has asked me to research it. I must admit I have found this
> quite daunting. I too am interested in green tea but where to start?
> I figured this would be the best place.
>
> Though I have found several places that sell green tea I have found
> nothing about qulities and quantities. For instance:
>
> - What about quality? Are the green teas in bags at the supermarket
> beneficial? If not, where to start with price in mind? I see many
> teas selling for $30 for a few grams. This seems impossible
> practically speaking for 2 people to maintain.

I don't see why the green tea bags in the supermarket would not have
similar health benefits to tea from other sources. But then again,
I haven't seen any studies.

There is no way you need to spend $30 for a few grams of tea to
get good green tea. I buy many teas - greens included - for something
in the neighborhood of $0.05 (5 cents) per gram, or about $25 per
pound (1 pound is about 455 grams). This isn't all that much more
than what standard grocery store bags cost, and it tastes a lot better.

I like the online vendor Upton teas (www.uptontea.com). Huge selection,
and a good selection of greens, many of which are modestly priced.
They also let you by samples for $1 or $1.50 each, which is very nice.

> - Quantity? How many cups does an ounce of green tea powder or leaves
> make/ I am trying to see how inexpensively this can be done.

A general rule of thumb is about 2.25 grams per 6 oz. cup of tea.
2.25 grams is roughly one teaspoon in volume, depending on how dense
the leaves are. I drink tea in 12 oz. mugs and infuse about 2 teaspoons
of leaf for that much.

More important rule: NEVER INFUSE GREEN TEA IN BOILING WATER!!! This
will result in a very harsh infusion. Most greens infuse best below 180
degrees F; some as low as 150 degrees F or even lower. An easy way to
do this is to boil the water, pour it into the pot or mug, let it stand
for 3-4 minutes, and then infuse. Don't infuse too long - most greens
infuse well around 2-3 minutes but some are better even shorter.

> I am interested firstly in the health benefits and secondly in the
> taste/pleasure aspect.

OK. Know that many studies have found health benefits from all kinds
of tea (black, oolong, green, etc.) as long as it is made from the
tea plant.


Randy

I don't know about the quality of bag teas where you live, but I would
go for loose tea instead in the mid-price segment. Again, I don't know
if there are tea stores in your area. But there are always internet
shops of course.

When I first tried green tea and just went to a teaasked for two green
teas, 2 ounces each. She gave me a Chinese Lung Ching (has hints of
peaches) and a Japanese Sencha (tastes a bit grassy and has an "oily"
quality to it).

I can also recommend Oolong teas which are half-fermented, being nott
exactly green teas but not yet black teas either (I guess green on the
inside, black on the outside (?)).

Taste - ranges from plain yucky to absolutely delicious.

Green tea is said to have positive health effects. I can't confirm
this by personal experience. What I find is, that it has a better
effect on me than coffee, which has an overpowering taste and affects
causes heart rate and blood pressure to increase a little. Tea usually
has a refreshing effect on me.

Regards,
Nils

Nils,

Thanks for the follow-up.

Being new to the green tea thing I am looking for good information.
So far I have found many teas in the $30 per ounce range! For this
price I would like to know how many cups I'm going to get out of it.

I would prefer to go with loose tea but can;t find any data as to what
consitutes good tea and bad.


Basically I am trying the find the cheapest good tea.

Thanks to all of you.

This is what I wanted to get off on the right foot. Now at least I
have some information, better than none.

Basically, you told me what I wanted to hear, green tea need not be
expensive!

"Sally P." > wrote in message
om...
> Hi,
>
> I can't attest to the health benefits, but I do enjoy green tea. My
> advice is to avoid the tea-bag varieties and stick with loose tea. If
> you have any Asian markets in your vicinity, you can find decent green
> tea at reasonable prices. You can also find green teas by online mail
> order (I'd recommend www.specialteas.com and www.uptontea.com, in that
> order.)
>
> Some suggestions:
>
> Gen-mai cha (brown rice tea): Japanese green tea mixed with roasted
> rice, which gives a nice flavor. It's also one I recommend to friends
> who find that other green teas don't have quite enough flavor for
> them...
>
> Lung-ching (or Longjing): A Chinese green, which some people find a
> bit less "grassy" tasting than some of the Japanese green teas.
> Special teas has a basic Lung-ching tea that sells for $4.65 for 1/4
> lb. (catalog #533). It's quite good, and 1/4 lb makes a lot of tea.
>
>
> One key is preparation -- don't use water that's boiling, just heat
> the water up to the point at which it seems about to boil (that is,
> watch the surface to see when it's steaming but not bubbling). It
> tastes a lot better that way... I use a small tea pot with a strainer,
> or just one of the paper tea filters you can order in packs from
> vendors like specialteas or upton. Very easy to do...
>
> Sally

Now this is interesting to me. I have found a jasmine tea that I like, but
my water temp doesn't appear to affect the way it tastes. IE boiling water
and a 3-minute steep is just fine. Little astringency (sp?) and only the
slightest bitterness (which actually reminds me of the way life is most
times, sorry to digress) but fairly full body (which is what I find most
pleasing). I tried steeping for 5 minutes with water that had boiled and
then sat to cool for five minutes, and it was quite bitter and very
astringent. 3 minutes would probably not have been so astringent or bitter,
but I already have that with *boiling* water, so what's the diff? Am I
doing something wrong? Also, someone said that green teas run the gamut
from bad-tasting to delicious, and while I enjoy this tea (Chung Feng
Jasmine Tea) or Foojoy Yin-Hao, I would not call either of them delicious by
any stretch of the imagination. How can any (unsweetened) tea be
"delicious"? I can only imagine "pleasant" and "satisfying." Thanks for
any help.

Ignorantly yours,

Dave

I am glad you were able to get your diabetic father to try green tea.
I wish i could get mine to. Green tea is definitely the national drink
of Japan and for many years was not exactly thought of as something
you go out and pay money for, but was always around. It is a very
healthy beverage because of it's lack of sugar and simplicity. How
perfect, a leaf and boiling water.

Here in Japan Sencha makes up about 80% of the green tea that Japanese
people consume. Every region has their own famous teas. It is better
to think of each as a regional specialty, with the flavor of the very
soil in each cup, like Idaho potatoes or Wisconsin cheese have
regional flavor.

It is said in Japanese that Sayama tea (from Saitama prefecture, just
north of Tokyo) has the best flavor, Uji tea (from southern Kyoto) has
the best color, and Shizuoka tea has the best fragrance. Shizuoka
(south west of Mt. Fuji and Tokyo) is by far the largest tea producing
region in Japan. There are many other famous area from southern Kyushu
all the way to Tohoku. Each has their own characteristics.

The tricky part is every region has its own characteristics. On top of
that, every region has several kinds of tea, for example, Kyoto is
famous for Uji tea (tea from the Uji region). These leaves are made
into sencha, bancha, matcha, etc. The list goes on, although those are
probably the 3 most popular kyoto Uji-cha varieties. Each is to be
made with a different type of pot and under different steeping times,
etc. It's best to buy a book, but most are not in English I would
guess. Maybe I should translate one or two. That might be fun,
actually, and enlightening for me.

The health benefits go without saying, no medical study required to
know that Japanese people have basically breathed tea for several
hundred years and that they have had some of the longest lifespans of
all humans.

Drinking tea from an appropriate cup makes the experience that much
more fun and probably makes it taste better (some psychosematic sort
of thing).

Enough rambling. If you ever get the chance come here and check out
the tea. It's everywhere.

Rufus T. Firefly

I am glad you were able to get your diabetic father to try green tea.
I wish i could get mine to. Green tea is definitely the national drink
of Japan and for many years was not exactly thought of as something
you go out and pay money for, but was always around. It is a very
healthy beverage because of it's lack of sugar and simplicity. How
perfect, a leaf and boiling water.

Here in Japan Sencha makes up about 80% of the green tea that Japanese
people consume. Every region has their own famous teas. It is better
to think of each as a regional specialty, with the flavor of the very
soil in each cup, like Idaho potatoes or Wisconsin cheese have
regional flavor.

It is said in Japanese that Sayama tea (from Saitama prefecture, just
north of Tokyo) has the best flavor, Uji tea (from southern Kyoto) has
the best color, and Shizuoka tea has the best fragrance. Shizuoka
(south west of Mt. Fuji and Tokyo) is by far the largest tea producing
region in Japan. There are many other famous area from southern Kyushu
all the way to Tohoku. Each has their own characteristics.

The tricky part is every region has its own characteristics. On top of
that, every region has several kinds of tea, for example, Kyoto is
famous for Uji tea (tea from the Uji region). These leaves are made
into sencha, bancha, matcha, etc. The list goes on, although those are
probably the 3 most popular kyoto Uji-cha varieties. Each is to be
made with a different type of pot and under different steeping times,
etc. It's best to buy a book, but most are not in English I would
guess. Maybe I should translate one or two. That might be fun,
actually, and enlightening for me.

The health benefits go without saying, no medical study required to
know that Japanese people have basically breathed tea for several
hundred years and that they have had some of the longest lifespans of
all humans.

Drinking tea from an appropriate cup makes the experience that much
more fun and probably makes it taste better (some psychosematic sort
of thing).

Enough rambling. If you ever get the chance come here and check out
the tea. It's everywhere.

Rufus T. Firefly