Hello.

A student of mine is visiting family in Shanghai and Shenzhen, and
offered to buy me some tea. But she doesn't know much about tea, and
would have to trust the dealer. Do you recommend any trustworthy
shops in Shenzhen especially, but also in Shanghai? She will come in
May, so my second question is whether the Spring harvest, for example
of long jin, begins to appear in stores? Thank you for any advice.


Please e-mail to me as well as post. I will summarize any responses.

Best,

Rick.

"Rick Chappell" > wrote in message
...
> Hello.
>
> A student of mine is visiting family in Shanghai and Shenzhen, and
> offered to buy me some tea. But she doesn't know much about tea, and
> would have to trust the dealer. Do you recommend any trustworthy
> shops in Shenzhen especially, but also in Shanghai? She will come in
> May, so my second question is whether the Spring harvest, for example
> of long jin, begins to appear in stores? Thank you for any advice.
>

If you know enough about tea to know about spring harvest, you shouldn't
entrust your student to buy tea for you. As you know some of the higher end
tea can be upwards to hundreds of dollars per oz. Besides, you can get
equal or maybe even better quality tea in specialty shops in the US.


>
> Please e-mail to me as well as post. I will summarize any responses.
>
> Best,
>
> Rick.

Peter /16/04


>
> "Rick Chappell" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hello.
>>
>> A student of mine is visiting family in Shanghai and Shenzhen, and
>> offered to buy me some tea. But she doesn't know much about tea, and
>> would have to trust the dealer. Do you recommend any trustworthy
>> shops in Shenzhen especially, but also in Shanghai? She will come in
>> May, so my second question is whether the Spring harvest, for example
>> of long jin, begins to appear in stores? Thank you for any advice.
>>
>
> If you know enough about tea to know about spring harvest, you shouldn't
> entrust your student to buy tea for you. As you know some of the higher end
> tea can be upwards to hundreds of dollars per oz. Besides, you can get
> equal or maybe even better quality tea in specialty shops in the US.


Peter,

I can't wait to learn where these specialty shops might be. Please advise.

Thanks.

Michael

Peter L > wrote, in response to my request for advice:

> If you know enough about tea to know about spring harvest, you shouldn't
> entrust your student to buy tea for you. As you know some of the higher end
> tea can be upwards to hundreds of dollars per oz. Besides, you can get
> equal or maybe even better quality tea in specialty shops in the US.

Peter, I am partly in reluctant agreement with you. SpecialTeas,
Upton's, etc. are pretty good. But on the other hand sometimes one
can get surprisingly good luck. For example, if she were going to
Hong Kong I would know where to send her.

And "hundreds of (U.S.) dollars per oz.", in China? Maybe possible,
but not very common, is it?

Once, perhaps 10 years ago, a student brought back some absolutely
beautiful longjin. It was "spear point" (one leaf and a bud), very
fresh, and tasted just swell. But he didn't know what he was doing.
I didn't either, at the time, or else I would have saved the package.
It was produced by the "Ti Kuan Yin" tea company, which confused me
for a time. It was too cheap for me to reimburse him so he said. He
may have been polite, but I'm sure he didn't spend hundreds of dollars
per ounce, and would be surprised if he even spent dollars per ounce.
Another student just last year brought back some great oolong. I did
save that box. On the other hand, some other presents have been mulch.
It's a crapshoot.

I'll let you know what happens,

Rick.

Rick,

This is all news to me since I have no China connection really, but I was
laboring under the impression that the best Chinese teas never leave China.
Truthfully, I've never gotten a spectacular Long Jin from such as Uptons or
Special Teas, but quite nice ones from Imperial Tea Court and from Grey and
Seddon. I've read descriptions of qualities that I've never seen for love or
money. I thought those are the ones you had to travel to Shanghai or some
such place for. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to know it.

Michael


Rick /16/04


> Peter L > wrote, in response to my request for advice:
>
>> If you know enough about tea to know about spring harvest, you shouldn't
>> entrust your student to buy tea for you. As you know some of the higher end
>> tea can be upwards to hundreds of dollars per oz. Besides, you can get
>> equal or maybe even better quality tea in specialty shops in the US.
>
> Peter, I am partly in reluctant agreement with you. SpecialTeas,
> Upton's, etc. are pretty good. But on the other hand sometimes one
> can get surprisingly good luck. For example, if she were going to
> Hong Kong I would know where to send her.
>
> And "hundreds of (U.S.) dollars per oz.", in China? Maybe possible,
> but not very common, is it?
>
> Once, perhaps 10 years ago, a student brought back some absolutely
> beautiful longjin. It was "spear point" (one leaf and a bud), very
> fresh, and tasted just swell. But he didn't know what he was doing.
> I didn't either, at the time, or else I would have saved the package.
> It was produced by the "Ti Kuan Yin" tea company, which confused me
> for a time. It was too cheap for me to reimburse him so he said. He
> may have been polite, but I'm sure he didn't spend hundreds of dollars
> per ounce, and would be surprised if he even spent dollars per ounce.
> Another student just last year brought back some great oolong. I did
> save that box. On the other hand, some other presents have been mulch.
> It's a crapshoot.
>
> I'll let you know what happens,
>
> Rick.

Michael Plant > wrote in message npipeline.com>...
> Rick,
>
> This is all news to me since I have no China connection really, but I was
> laboring under the impression that the best Chinese teas never leave China.
> Truthfully, I've never gotten a spectacular Long Jin from such as Uptons or
> Special Teas, but quite nice ones from Imperial Tea Court and from Grey and
> Seddon. I've read descriptions of qualities that I've never seen for love or
> money. I thought those are the ones you had to travel to Shanghai or some
> such place for. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to know it.
>


My big brother Michael:

Wonderful explanation. It is true, the best teas never leave China. We
all knows their are more then 3,000 kinds of tea. Where are they?
During my business trip in China and Hong Kong in 1997, I had an extra
days to do some enquiry about Chinese tea. Here is the fact, I have
found:

-> Whatever the rest of the world think of China, Their are many
extremely wealthiest business families in China. They consumed the
best qualities of tea. My cotton supplier was an Northern Chinese and
fifth generation businessman. He took me in his house and I was so
shocked to see his personal library(books from around the world) and
his more then 250 types of teas and an rare collection of Pu-erh.

->Many different kinds of teas in China are producing little less then
100Kg. They never come to the auction house or even in any market.
They are directly supply to the wealthy families. Some Chinese wealthy
families collect teas with good price and like to invite their friends
at home. They share those teas with their friends and families. This
is a way to show their wealth and connection.

->Some teas come from many remote areas of China, no foreigner ever
heard the name of those places.

->Many Chinese people feel- tea is their secret assets and they keep
their production low and supply to some selective customers. Money is
not the question, National pride comes first.

->I know some of you will disagree with me but let tell you this-
still western market haven't discover the best qualities of Pu-erh
tea(I will post details about it later, I am working on it)

->In the united States only Imperial Tea court has some excess to get
a very little rare Chinese teas from China. Example-Wu Xi Hai Cha,
Golden needle, Sichuan Congue etc. etc.

->There are 130 million overseas Chinese live all around the world,
some of them privately collect some real good, rare teas through their
mainland relatives for personal consumption.

->Their are some private and communal tea estates in China, only that
specific community drinks those teas.

The last word:

Even Chinese people don't know, how many kinds of teas are producing
in China. It is a huge country and so many remote parts has no
connection with city yet. I always say- Their are seven wonders in the
world and as a country- China is an wonder.

A prediction:

Very soon,Vancouver in Canada will be the place where we will find
some real, good, rare Chinese teas.

Thanks Michael for your wise comment about Chinese tea. Hope
you,J.Kubera and Lew had a great weekend.

Ripon
(Vienna,VA)

Hi Ripon,

I concur with you that we do not see the truly greats puerhs here in
the USA. These 30-50 year old cakes that we see for a couple hundred
dollars are actually the ones that nobody would buy in China and are
pawned off on us uninformed Westerners. My research has shown that
Taiwan and China have grades of aged green puerhs that are extremely
rare and, quite frankly, beyond my reach financially. I have seen
cakes sell for literally thousands of dollars. Puerh in the East is
akin, both financially and culturally, to consuming Russian caviar and
collected like fine wines or well aged balsamics. Puerh collections in
the East would rival Donald Trump's wine cellar in value and prestige.
I fear that I will never have the pleasure of experiencing the fine
hand made cakes from before the Communist Cultural revolution (Wen
Ge), these get auctioned off in the East and will never see the
Western shores, in large part because the western world doesn't have
the appreciation level to compete financially with the eastern
collectors. Its hard for me to fathom drinking a single pot of tea
that costs a couple of hundred dollars.

I have found that China does not share much information about puerh.
Most of the information I have been able to uncover comes from Taiwan.
There appears to be a well organized Puerh Collectors market there. My
impression is that the Chinese consider puerh to be a cultural "gift"
to be protected from outsiders, often to the point of secrecy.

I am looking forward to the details you have to share...


On 18 Apr 2004 18:33:35 -0700, (Ripon) cast caution
to the wind and posted:

>->I know some of you will disagree with me but let tell you this-
>still western market haven't discover the best qualities of Pu-erh
>tea(I will post details about it later, I am working on it)


Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Rick Chappell > wrote in message >...
> Peter L > wrote, in response to my request for advice:
>
> > If you know enough about tea to know about spring harvest, you shouldn't
> > entrust your student to buy tea for you. As you know some of the higher end
> > tea can be upwards to hundreds of dollars per oz. Besides, you can get
> > equal or maybe even better quality tea in specialty shops in the US.
>
> Peter, I am partly in reluctant agreement with you. SpecialTeas,
> Upton's, etc. are pretty good. But on the other hand sometimes one
> can get surprisingly good luck. For example, if she were going to
> Hong Kong I would know where to send her.
>
> And "hundreds of (U.S.) dollars per oz.", in China? Maybe possible,
> but not very common, is it?
>
> Once, perhaps 10 years ago, a student brought back some absolutely
> beautiful longjin. It was "spear point" (one leaf and a bud), very
> fresh, and tasted just swell. But he didn't know what he was doing.
> I didn't either, at the time, or else I would have saved the package.
> It was produced by the "Ti Kuan Yin" tea company, which confused me
> for a time. It was too cheap for me to reimburse him so he said. He
> may have been polite, but I'm sure he didn't spend hundreds of dollars
> per ounce, and would be surprised if he even spent dollars per ounce.
> Another student just last year brought back some great oolong. I did
> save that box. On the other hand, some other presents have been mulch.
> It's a crapshoot.
>
> I'll let you know what happens,
>
> Rick.

"Longjing" is a name for a kind of green tea, which from(or arround)
Longjing village in Zhejiang province; and "Spear(pronounced as Mao in
Chinese) point(pronounced as jian)", if it refers to "Maojian", then
it is another kind of green tea, which is commonly refered to the
Xinyang Maojian in Xinyang city, Anhui province. In terms of
collection of leaves, according to the national standard (general
terms), there isn't any specified 'names', while some locals might
have accordingly.
Talking about commercial availablity, top quality Longjing from spring
harvest (also the earliest)is priced around 1000 RMB per 500g (Chinese
Jin). This price is offered by one of the offical dealer(no more than
3 dealers, and at least one of them has long-term government order) of
Longjing and the name "Longjing Tea" is under the protection of
related legislation from Chinese government. But sorry to say that I
only know the Chinese name of that legislation and reluctant to give
an uncertained English one.
"Tie Guanyin" is a kind of Wulong (there are 6 classes most commonly,
white, green, Wulong/qing(a name used in Taiwan for the same thing),
black, red, and flower tea). Tie Guanyin is from Anxi county, Fujian
province. As it is different from Longjing, one could expect 4 harvest
of Tie Guanyin in a year, among which spring and autumn are of better
quality. The price of top quality from offical dealer may ranging from
550-700 RMB per 500g (Chinese Jin).
Offical dealers, as above mentioned, are not retailers but they do
retailing if you turn up and place your order in proper Chinese, they
are the source anyway.

Rick Chappell > wrote in message >...
> Peter L > wrote, in response to my request for advice:
>
> > If you know enough about tea to know about spring harvest, you shouldn't
> > entrust your student to buy tea for you. As you know some of the higher end
> > tea can be upwards to hundreds of dollars per oz. Besides, you can get
> > equal or maybe even better quality tea in specialty shops in the US.
>
> Peter, I am partly in reluctant agreement with you. SpecialTeas,
> Upton's, etc. are pretty good. But on the other hand sometimes one
> can get surprisingly good luck. For example, if she were going to
> Hong Kong I would know where to send her.
>
> And "hundreds of (U.S.) dollars per oz.", in China? Maybe possible,
> but not very common, is it?
>
> Once, perhaps 10 years ago, a student brought back some absolutely
> beautiful longjin. It was "spear point" (one leaf and a bud), very
> fresh, and tasted just swell. But he didn't know what he was doing.
> I didn't either, at the time, or else I would have saved the package.
> It was produced by the "Ti Kuan Yin" tea company, which confused me
> for a time. It was too cheap for me to reimburse him so he said. He
> may have been polite, but I'm sure he didn't spend hundreds of dollars
> per ounce, and would be surprised if he even spent dollars per ounce.
> Another student just last year brought back some great oolong. I did
> save that box. On the other hand, some other presents have been mulch.
> It's a crapshoot.
>
> I'll let you know what happens,
>
> Rick.

"Longjing" is a name for a kind of green tea, which from(or arround)
Longjing village in Zhejiang province; and "Spear(pronounced as Mao in
Chinese) point(pronounced as jian)", if it refers to "Maojian", then
it is another kind of green tea, which is commonly refered to the
Xinyang Maojian in Xinyang city, Anhui province. In terms of
collection of leaves, according to the national standard (general
terms), there isn't any specified 'names', while some locals might
have accordingly.
Talking about commercial availablity, top quality Longjing from spring
harvest (also the earliest)is priced around 1000 RMB per 500g (Chinese
Jin). This price is offered by one of the offical dealer(no more than
3 dealers, and at least one of them has long-term government order) of
Longjing and the name "Longjing Tea" is under the protection of
related legislation from Chinese government. But sorry to say that I
only know the Chinese name of that legislation and reluctant to give
an uncertained English one.
"Tie Guanyin" is a kind of Wulong (there are 6 classes most commonly,
white, green, Wulong/qing(a name used in Taiwan for the same thing),
black, red, and flower tea). Tie Guanyin is from Anxi county, Fujian
province. As it is different from Longjing, one could expect 4 harvest
of Tie Guanyin in a year, among which spring and autumn are of better
quality. The price of top quality from offical dealer may ranging from
550-700 RMB per 500g (Chinese Jin).
Offical dealers, as above mentioned, are not retailers but they do
retailing if you turn up and place your order in proper Chinese, they
are the source anyway.

Mike Petro > wrote in message >. ..
> Hi Ripon,
>
> I concur with you that we do not see the truly greats puerhs here in
> the USA. These 30-50 year old cakes that we see for a couple hundred
> dollars are actually the ones that nobody would buy in China and are
> pawned off on us uninformed Westerners. My research has shown that
> Taiwan and China have grades of aged green puerhs that are extremely
> rare and, quite frankly, beyond my reach financially. I have seen
> cakes sell for literally thousands of dollars. Puerh in the East is
> akin, both financially and culturally, to consuming Russian caviar and
> collected like fine wines or well aged balsamics. Puerh collections in
> the East would rival Donald Trump's wine cellar in value and prestige.
> I fear that I will never have the pleasure of experiencing the fine
> hand made cakes from before the Communist Cultural revolution (Wen
> Ge), these get auctioned off in the East and will never see the
> Western shores, in large part because the western world doesn't have
> the appreciation level to compete financially with the eastern
> collectors. Its hard for me to fathom drinking a single pot of tea
> that costs a couple of hundred dollars.
>
> I have found that China does not share much information about puerh.
> Most of the information I have been able to uncover comes from Taiwan.
> There appears to be a well organized Puerh Collectors market there. My
> impression is that the Chinese consider puerh to be a cultural "gift"
> to be protected from outsiders, often to the point of secrecy.
>
> I am looking forward to the details you have to share...
>
>
> On 18 Apr 2004 18:33:35 -0700, (Ripon) cast caution
> to the wind and posted:
>
> >->I know some of you will disagree with me but let tell you this-
> >still western market haven't discover the best qualities of Pu-erh
> >tea(I will post details about it later, I am working on it)
>
>
> Mike Petro
> http://www.pu-erh.net
> remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Menghai Ltd. is still running, and there ARE some high quality green
cake, I was told that most of them was collected by Hongkong business.

Mike Petro > wrote in message >. ..
> Hi Ripon,
>
> I concur with you that we do not see the truly greats puerhs here in
> the USA. These 30-50 year old cakes that we see for a couple hundred
> dollars are actually the ones that nobody would buy in China and are
> pawned off on us uninformed Westerners. My research has shown that
> Taiwan and China have grades of aged green puerhs that are extremely
> rare and, quite frankly, beyond my reach financially. I have seen
> cakes sell for literally thousands of dollars. Puerh in the East is
> akin, both financially and culturally, to consuming Russian caviar and
> collected like fine wines or well aged balsamics. Puerh collections in
> the East would rival Donald Trump's wine cellar in value and prestige.
> I fear that I will never have the pleasure of experiencing the fine
> hand made cakes from before the Communist Cultural revolution (Wen
> Ge), these get auctioned off in the East and will never see the
> Western shores, in large part because the western world doesn't have
> the appreciation level to compete financially with the eastern
> collectors. Its hard for me to fathom drinking a single pot of tea
> that costs a couple of hundred dollars.
>
> I have found that China does not share much information about puerh.
> Most of the information I have been able to uncover comes from Taiwan.
> There appears to be a well organized Puerh Collectors market there. My
> impression is that the Chinese consider puerh to be a cultural "gift"
> to be protected from outsiders, often to the point of secrecy.
>
> I am looking forward to the details you have to share...
>
>
> On 18 Apr 2004 18:33:35 -0700, (Ripon) cast caution
> to the wind and posted:
>
> >->I know some of you will disagree with me but let tell you this-
> >still western market haven't discover the best qualities of Pu-erh
> >tea(I will post details about it later, I am working on it)
>
>
> Mike Petro
> http://www.pu-erh.net
> remove the "filter" in my email address to reply

Menghai Ltd. is still running, and there ARE some high quality green
cake, I was told that most of them was collected by Hongkong business.

there are families collecting teas, but just imagine how big China is,
do you think they could really become mono-collectors?

(Ripon) wrote in message . com>...
> Michael Plant > wrote in message npipeline.com>...
> > Rick,
> >
> > This is all news to me since I have no China connection really, but I was
> > laboring under the impression that the best Chinese teas never leave China.
> > Truthfully, I've never gotten a spectacular Long Jin from such as Uptons or
> > Special Teas, but quite nice ones from Imperial Tea Court and from Grey and
> > Seddon. I've read descriptions of qualities that I've never seen for love or
> > money. I thought those are the ones you had to travel to Shanghai or some
> > such place for. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to know it.
> >
>
>
> My big brother Michael:
>
> Wonderful explanation. It is true, the best teas never leave China. We
> all knows their are more then 3,000 kinds of tea. Where are they?
> During my business trip in China and Hong Kong in 1997, I had an extra
> days to do some enquiry about Chinese tea. Here is the fact, I have
> found:
>
> -> Whatever the rest of the world think of China, Their are many
> extremely wealthiest business families in China. They consumed the
> best qualities of tea. My cotton supplier was an Northern Chinese and
> fifth generation businessman. He took me in his house and I was so
> shocked to see his personal library(books from around the world) and
> his more then 250 types of teas and an rare collection of Pu-erh.
>
> ->Many different kinds of teas in China are producing little less then
> 100Kg. They never come to the auction house or even in any market.
> They are directly supply to the wealthy families. Some Chinese wealthy
> families collect teas with good price and like to invite their friends
> at home. They share those teas with their friends and families. This
> is a way to show their wealth and connection.
>
> ->Some teas come from many remote areas of China, no foreigner ever
> heard the name of those places.
>
> ->Many Chinese people feel- tea is their secret assets and they keep
> their production low and supply to some selective customers. Money is
> not the question, National pride comes first.
>
> ->I know some of you will disagree with me but let tell you this-
> still western market haven't discover the best qualities of Pu-erh
> tea(I will post details about it later, I am working on it)
>
> ->In the united States only Imperial Tea court has some excess to get
> a very little rare Chinese teas from China. Example-Wu Xi Hai Cha,
> Golden needle, Sichuan Congue etc. etc.
>
> ->There are 130 million overseas Chinese live all around the world,
> some of them privately collect some real good, rare teas through their
> mainland relatives for personal consumption.
>
> ->Their are some private and communal tea estates in China, only that
> specific community drinks those teas.
>
> The last word:
>
> Even Chinese people don't know, how many kinds of teas are producing
> in China. It is a huge country and so many remote parts has no
> connection with city yet. I always say- Their are seven wonders in the
> world and as a country- China is an wonder.
>
> A prediction:
>
> Very soon,Vancouver in Canada will be the place where we will find
> some real, good, rare Chinese teas.
>
> Thanks Michael for your wise comment about Chinese tea. Hope
> you,J.Kubera and Lew had a great weekend.
>
> Ripon
> (Vienna,VA)

there are families collecting teas, but just imagine how big China is,
do you think they could really become mono-collectors?

(Ripon) wrote in message . com>...
> Michael Plant > wrote in message npipeline.com>...
> > Rick,
> >
> > This is all news to me since I have no China connection really, but I was
> > laboring under the impression that the best Chinese teas never leave China.
> > Truthfully, I've never gotten a spectacular Long Jin from such as Uptons or
> > Special Teas, but quite nice ones from Imperial Tea Court and from Grey and
> > Seddon. I've read descriptions of qualities that I've never seen for love or
> > money. I thought those are the ones you had to travel to Shanghai or some
> > such place for. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to know it.
> >
>
>
> My big brother Michael:
>
> Wonderful explanation. It is true, the best teas never leave China. We
> all knows their are more then 3,000 kinds of tea. Where are they?
> During my business trip in China and Hong Kong in 1997, I had an extra
> days to do some enquiry about Chinese tea. Here is the fact, I have
> found:
>
> -> Whatever the rest of the world think of China, Their are many
> extremely wealthiest business families in China. They consumed the
> best qualities of tea. My cotton supplier was an Northern Chinese and
> fifth generation businessman. He took me in his house and I was so
> shocked to see his personal library(books from around the world) and
> his more then 250 types of teas and an rare collection of Pu-erh.
>
> ->Many different kinds of teas in China are producing little less then
> 100Kg. They never come to the auction house or even in any market.
> They are directly supply to the wealthy families. Some Chinese wealthy
> families collect teas with good price and like to invite their friends
> at home. They share those teas with their friends and families. This
> is a way to show their wealth and connection.
>
> ->Some teas come from many remote areas of China, no foreigner ever
> heard the name of those places.
>
> ->Many Chinese people feel- tea is their secret assets and they keep
> their production low and supply to some selective customers. Money is
> not the question, National pride comes first.
>
> ->I know some of you will disagree with me but let tell you this-
> still western market haven't discover the best qualities of Pu-erh
> tea(I will post details about it later, I am working on it)
>
> ->In the united States only Imperial Tea court has some excess to get
> a very little rare Chinese teas from China. Example-Wu Xi Hai Cha,
> Golden needle, Sichuan Congue etc. etc.
>
> ->There are 130 million overseas Chinese live all around the world,
> some of them privately collect some real good, rare teas through their
> mainland relatives for personal consumption.
>
> ->Their are some private and communal tea estates in China, only that
> specific community drinks those teas.
>
> The last word:
>
> Even Chinese people don't know, how many kinds of teas are producing
> in China. It is a huge country and so many remote parts has no
> connection with city yet. I always say- Their are seven wonders in the
> world and as a country- China is an wonder.
>
> A prediction:
>
> Very soon,Vancouver in Canada will be the place where we will find
> some real, good, rare Chinese teas.
>
> Thanks Michael for your wise comment about Chinese tea. Hope
> you,J.Kubera and Lew had a great weekend.
>
> Ripon
> (Vienna,VA)