An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap in
oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
recently to stick with Taiwanese.

So, please, some more adventurous options that are ones you rave
about. I'm not looking for more everyday good old faithfuls but the
fill your mouth, make you sit up and music goes off in your head
types.

thanks in advance

Mainland DanCongs come to mind.

Jim

On Oct 6, 10:39 pm, george tasman > wrote:
> An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
> so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
> mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap in
> oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
> light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
> taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
> recently to stick with Taiwanese.
>
> So, please, some more adventurous options that are ones you rave
> about. I'm not looking for more everyday good old faithfuls but the
> fill your mouth, make you sit up and music goes off in your head
> types.
>
> thanks in advance

I've been getting my teas through TeaVana.

Oolong Teas: Loose-leaf Oolong tea from Teavana

They have a long list of oolong. Have you tried Rubios?

george tasman > writes:

> An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
> so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
> mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap in
> oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
> light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
> taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
> recently to stick with Taiwanese.

What Wuyi oolongs have been on the light side?

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Oct 7, 10:34*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> george tasman > writes:
> > An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
> > so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
> > mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap *in
> > oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
> > light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
> > taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
> > recently to stick with Taiwanese.
>
> What Wuyi oolongs have been on the light side?
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

Let's see,,,,,

Two workhorse, lowish price generics -- Wegman's Wuyi (a good buy but
indistinguishable from a green), Adagio Ensemble -- plus a Sparrow's
Tongue, Zhong Shan and "organic" Water Sprite. I've used the published
figures on oxidization percent in scanning and have looked for heavy
oxidization as a guideline.

In article >,
ChefToddMohr > wrote:
>
>I've been getting my teas through TeaVana.
>
>'Oolong Teas: Loose-leaf Oolong tea from Teavana'
>(http://www.teavana.com/The-Teas/Oolong-Teas/)

Everything I have ever got from those folks was stale and substantially
overpriced. And none of the oolongs they have is like what the original
poster is looking for.

>They have a long list of oolong. Have you tried Rubios?

Rooibos is not tea.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Oct 7, 1:02*pm, george tasman > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 10:34*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> > george tasman > writes:
> > > An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
> > > so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
> > > mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap *in
> > > oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
> > > light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
> > > taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
> > > recently to stick with Taiwanese.
>
> > What Wuyi oolongs have been on the light side?
>
> > /Lew
> > ---
> > Lew Perin /
>
> Let's see,,,,,
>
> Two workhorse, lowish price generics -- Wegman's Wuyi (a good buy but
> indistinguishable from a green), Adagio Ensemble -- plus a Sparrow's
> Tongue, Zhong Shan and "organic" Water Sprite. I've used the published
> figures on oxidization percent in scanning and have looked for heavy
> oxidization as a guideline.

OK, well it seems like the issue may be more with the vendors than the
teas themselves. I'm a big Wegmans fan but their teas are highly
overpriced and lower quality, they are essentially just loose leaf
Republic of Tea. Not a real good measuring stick as far as tea goes.
(but their jasmine pearls, ginger peach black, and black raspberry
sage black, are all decent for flavored teas)

Adagio is basically the same story. Overpriced and underperforming.
Same with Teavanna except there you get deceptive service and terrible
people as a bonus.

Not trying to be overly critical but none of these would be any of our
recommendations around here. You can get much higher quality tea for
the same or less money from reputable vendors that will take the time
and effort to help and guide you.

All of those teas you mentioned are actually very good teas, just not
from the sources you chose, that's all. Shui Xian (also known as Shui
Hsien or "water sprite") can have many forms, try one that is medium
roasted and one heavily roasted. Teaspring.com, Houde Asian Art,
Imperial Tea court, and possibly Jing Teashop should all have this and
you should be able to find one or two in your price range. Same for Wu
Yi's or Dan Congs, which are both oolongs and should fit the bill all
from those same places. The sparrow or bird's tongue ("que she") can
be harder to find and is one of those teas that freshness and quality
is the main focus, I don't have a great source for this and just
happily stumble upon it every now and then. Upton Tea is another site
that will easily beat the prices you were paying and offer better tea
but it just isn't quite the quality available from the others I
mentioned. It is a great place to get your feet wet and experiment
though.

Hopefully that will help point you in the right direction and get you
some solid teas to try.

- Dominic

On Oct 7, 4:15*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 1:02*pm, george tasman > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 7, 10:34*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> > > george tasman > writes:
> > > > An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
> > > > so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
> > > > mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap *in
> > > > oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
> > > > light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
> > > > taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
> > > > recently to stick with Taiwanese.
>
> > > What Wuyi oolongs have been on the light side?
>
> > > /Lew
> > > ---
> > > Lew Perin /
>
> > Let's see,,,,,
>
> > Two workhorse, lowish price generics -- Wegman's Wuyi (a good buy but
> > indistinguishable from a green), Adagio Ensemble -- plus a Sparrow's
> > Tongue, Zhong Shan and "organic" Water Sprite. I've used the published
> > figures on oxidization percent in scanning and have looked for heavy
> > oxidization as a guideline.
>
> OK, well it seems like the issue may be more with the vendors than the
> teas themselves. I'm a big Wegmans fan but their teas are highly
> overpriced and lower quality, they are essentially just loose leaf
> Republic of Tea. Not a real good measuring stick as far as tea goes.
> (but their jasmine pearls, ginger peach black, and black raspberry
> sage black, are all decent for flavored teas)
>
> Adagio is basically the same story. Overpriced and underperforming.
> Same with Teavanna except there you get deceptive service and terrible
> people as a bonus.
>
> Not trying to be overly critical but none of these would be any of our
> recommendations around here. You can get much higher quality tea for
> the same or less money from reputable vendors that will take the time
> and effort to help and guide you.
>
> All of those teas you mentioned are actually very good teas, just not
> from the sources you chose, that's all. Shui Xian (also known as Shui
> Hsien or "water sprite") can have many forms, try one that is medium
> roasted and one heavily roasted. Teaspring.com, Houde Asian Art,
> Imperial Tea court, and possibly Jing Teashop should all have this and
> you should be able to find one or two in your price range. Same for Wu
> Yi's or Dan Congs, which are both oolongs and should fit the bill all
> from those same places. The sparrow or bird's tongue ("que she") can
> be harder to find and is one of those teas that freshness and quality
> is the main focus, I don't have a great source for this and just
> happily stumble upon it every now and then. Upton Tea is another site
> that will easily beat the prices you were paying and offer better tea
> but it just isn't quite the quality available from the others I
> mentioned. It is a great place to get your feet wet and experiment
> though.
>
> Hopefully that will help point you in the right direction and get you
> some solid teas to try.
>
> - Dominic

Thanks for the comments. I agree with you about Adagio -- I got given
it as a gift. The Wegman's I buy for the Wuyi and jasmine green only
because it's the best I can find in a shop.
The problem is locating a vendor -- there aren't any of quality near
me. The few within driving distance are clearly buying from some
wholesaler on the cheap and even where their teas have the names it's
clear they re not top quality -- I've given up on Dragonwell as being
anything from dyed paper towel torn up to flaccid if-you-try-hard-you-
can taste-something-perhaps. (I've had "young" Hyson and Ceylons
recently that were half the price of specialty vendors and overpriced
at that.)

The online vendors don't really offer much help. I should probably try
more of Upton's offers, but I haven't been that impressed. Your sound
advice of finding one that will be personally helpful is what I'd like
but haven't found. I tried a good Australian supplier who specialized
in oolongs and has a great catalog but viewed delivery as not really
their responsibility -- four months for an incomplete shipment with
substitutions. Which vendor(s) would you pick as superb specialized
catalog/good service?

On Oct 7, 4:44*pm, george tasman > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 4:15*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 7, 1:02*pm, george tasman > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 7, 10:34*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> > > > george tasman > writes:
> > > > > An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
> > > > > so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
> > > > > mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap *in
> > > > > oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
> > > > > light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
> > > > > taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
> > > > > recently to stick with Taiwanese.
>
> > > > What Wuyi oolongs have been on the light side?
>
> > > > /Lew
> > > > ---
> > > > Lew Perin /
>
> > > Let's see,,,,,
>
> > > Two workhorse, lowish price generics -- Wegman's Wuyi (a good buy but
> > > indistinguishable from a green), Adagio Ensemble -- plus a Sparrow's
> > > Tongue, Zhong Shan and "organic" Water Sprite. I've used the published
> > > figures on oxidization percent in scanning and have looked for heavy
> > > oxidization as a guideline.
>
> > OK, well it seems like the issue may be more with the vendors than the
> > teas themselves. I'm a big Wegmans fan but their teas are highly
> > overpriced and lower quality, they are essentially just loose leaf
> > Republic of Tea. Not a real good measuring stick as far as tea goes.
> > (but their jasmine pearls, ginger peach black, and black raspberry
> > sage black, are all decent for flavored teas)
>
> > Adagio is basically the same story. Overpriced and underperforming.
> > Same with Teavanna except there you get deceptive service and terrible
> > people as a bonus.
>
> > Not trying to be overly critical but none of these would be any of our
> > recommendations around here. You can get much higher quality tea for
> > the same or less money from reputable vendors that will take the time
> > and effort to help and guide you.
>
> > All of those teas you mentioned are actually very good teas, just not
> > from the sources you chose, that's all. Shui Xian (also known as Shui
> > Hsien or "water sprite") can have many forms, try one that is medium
> > roasted and one heavily roasted. Teaspring.com, Houde Asian Art,
> > Imperial Tea court, and possibly Jing Teashop should all have this and
> > you should be able to find one or two in your price range. Same for Wu
> > Yi's or Dan Congs, which are both oolongs and should fit the bill all
> > from those same places. The sparrow or bird's tongue ("que she") can
> > be harder to find and is one of those teas that freshness and quality
> > is the main focus, I don't have a great source for this and just
> > happily stumble upon it every now and then. Upton Tea is another site
> > that will easily beat the prices you were paying and offer better tea
> > but it just isn't quite the quality available from the others I
> > mentioned. It is a great place to get your feet wet and experiment
> > though.
>
> > Hopefully that will help point you in the right direction and get you
> > some solid teas to try.
>
> > - Dominic
>
> Thanks for the comments. I agree with you about Adagio -- I got given
> it as a gift. The Wegman's I buy for the Wuyi and jasmine green only
> because it's the best I can find in a shop.
> The problem is locating a vendor -- there aren't any of quality near
> me. The few within driving distance are clearly buying from some
> wholesaler on the cheap and even where their teas have the names it's
> clear they re not top quality -- I've given up on Dragonwell as being
> anything from dyed paper towel torn up to flaccid if-you-try-hard-you-
> can taste-something-perhaps. (I've had "young" Hyson and Ceylons
> recently that were half the price of specialty vendors and overpriced
> at that.)
>
> The online vendors don't really offer much help. I should probably try
> more of Upton's offers, but I haven't been that impressed. Your sound
> advice of finding one that will be personally helpful is what I'd like
> but haven't found. I tried a good Australian supplier who specialized
> in oolongs and has a great catalog but viewed delivery as not really
> their responsibility -- four months for an incomplete shipment with
> substitutions. Which vendor(s) would you pick as superb specialized
> catalog/good service?

Many online vendors actually provide great service and help. It's hard
at first to figure out which do but fire off an email with some of
your questions to a couple and you will quickly find who are helpful.
Others here can probably add a few but my list of my go-tos a

Teaspring.com (daniel is very helpful, prices are great, Chinese teas
only)
Stephane Erler (a great guy and extremely knowledgable)
Houde Asian Art (can be pricey at times but always worth it)
Jing Tea Shop (not always a first pick for me just because of the teas
I drink but always excellent)
Hibiki-an/o-cha for Japanese greens (pricey but again mostly worth it)
Imperial tea court (some like them, some don't but generally the
reasoning is not the quality of the leaf itself)
Yunnan Sourcing LLC (an ebay shop but great teas and prices, good
place for Puer)
Upton Tea (Maybe if I were into black teas and darjeelings it would be
more of a choice, but I'm not really and they never wow me like the
places listed above)

Now, you have to realize my tea tastes dictate where I go for tea. I
drink mainly Japanese greens, a few non-green non-flowery oolongs,
yellow tea, jasmine green, chamomile, and not much else daily. I
occasionally dig into a new area of tea just to experience it but I
rarely find one or two that end up staying around.

I live near Pittsburgh which has essentially no places to go for
decent tea in person, so the Internet is one of my only sources except
for rare occasions. I do seek out tea when I travel though and it's
always great to actually go to really good tea shops.

- Dominic

On Oct 7, 5:44*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 4:44*pm, george tasman > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 7, 4:15*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 7, 1:02*pm, george tasman > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 7, 10:34*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> > > > > george tasman > writes:
> > > > > > An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
> > > > > > so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
> > > > > > mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap *in
> > > > > > oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
> > > > > > light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
> > > > > > taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
> > > > > > recently to stick with Taiwanese.
>
> > > > > What Wuyi oolongs have been on the light side?
>
> > > > > /Lew
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Lew Perin /
>
> > > > Let's see,,,,,
>
> > > > Two workhorse, lowish price generics -- Wegman's Wuyi (a good buy but
> > > > indistinguishable from a green), Adagio Ensemble -- plus a Sparrow's
> > > > Tongue, Zhong Shan and "organic" Water Sprite. I've used the published
> > > > figures on oxidization percent in scanning and have looked for heavy
> > > > oxidization as a guideline.
>
> > > OK, well it seems like the issue may be more with the vendors than the
> > > teas themselves. I'm a big Wegmans fan but their teas are highly
> > > overpriced and lower quality, they are essentially just loose leaf
> > > Republic of Tea. Not a real good measuring stick as far as tea goes.
> > > (but their jasmine pearls, ginger peach black, and black raspberry
> > > sage black, are all decent for flavored teas)
>
> > > Adagio is basically the same story. Overpriced and underperforming.
> > > Same with Teavanna except there you get deceptive service and terrible
> > > people as a bonus.
>
> > > Not trying to be overly critical but none of these would be any of our
> > > recommendations around here. You can get much higher quality tea for
> > > the same or less money from reputable vendors that will take the time
> > > and effort to help and guide you.
>
> > > All of those teas you mentioned are actually very good teas, just not
> > > from the sources you chose, that's all. Shui Xian (also known as Shui
> > > Hsien or "water sprite") can have many forms, try one that is medium
> > > roasted and one heavily roasted. Teaspring.com, Houde Asian Art,
> > > Imperial Tea court, and possibly Jing Teashop should all have this and
> > > you should be able to find one or two in your price range. Same for Wu
> > > Yi's or Dan Congs, which are both oolongs and should fit the bill all
> > > from those same places. The sparrow or bird's tongue ("que she") can
> > > be harder to find and is one of those teas that freshness and quality
> > > is the main focus, I don't have a great source for this and just
> > > happily stumble upon it every now and then. Upton Tea is another site
> > > that will easily beat the prices you were paying and offer better tea
> > > but it just isn't quite the quality available from the others I
> > > mentioned. It is a great place to get your feet wet and experiment
> > > though.
>
> > > Hopefully that will help point you in the right direction and get you
> > > some solid teas to try.
>
> > > - Dominic
>
> > Thanks for the comments. I agree with you about Adagio -- I got given
> > it as a gift. The Wegman's I buy for the Wuyi and jasmine green only
> > because it's the best I can find in a shop.
> > The problem is locating a vendor -- there aren't any of quality near
> > me. The few within driving distance are clearly buying from some
> > wholesaler on the cheap and even where their teas have the names it's
> > clear they re not top quality -- I've given up on Dragonwell as being
> > anything from dyed paper towel torn up to flaccid if-you-try-hard-you-
> > can taste-something-perhaps. (I've had "young" Hyson and Ceylons
> > recently that were half the price of specialty vendors and overpriced
> > at that.)
>
> > The online vendors don't really offer much help. I should probably try
> > more of Upton's offers, but I haven't been that impressed. Your sound
> > advice of finding one that will be personally helpful is what I'd like
> > but haven't found. I tried a good Australian supplier who specialized
> > in oolongs and has a great catalog but viewed delivery as not really
> > their responsibility -- four months for an incomplete shipment with
> > substitutions. Which vendor(s) would you pick as superb specialized
> > catalog/good service?
>
> Many online vendors actually provide great service and help. It's hard
> at first to figure out which do but fire off an email with some of
> your questions to a couple and you will quickly find who are helpful.
> Others here can probably add a few but my list of my go-tos a
>
> Teaspring.com (daniel is very helpful, prices are great, Chinese teas
> only)
> Stephane Erler (a great guy and extremely knowledgable)
> Houde Asian Art (can be pricey at times but always worth it)
> Jing Tea Shop (not always a first pick for me just because of the teas
> I drink but always excellent)
> Hibiki-an/o-cha for Japanese greens (pricey but again mostly worth it)
> Imperial tea court (some like them, some don't but generally the
> reasoning is not the quality of the leaf itself)
> Yunnan Sourcing LLC (an ebay shop but great teas and prices, good
> place for Puer)
> Upton Tea (Maybe if I were into black teas and darjeelings it would be
> more of a choice, but I'm not really and they never wow me like the
> places listed above)
>
> Now, you have to realize my tea tastes dictate where I go for tea. I
> drink mainly Japanese greens, a few non-green non-flowery oolongs,
> yellow tea, jasmine green, chamomile, and not much else daily. I
> occasionally dig into a new area of tea just to experience it but I
> rarely find one or two that end up staying around.
>
> I live near Pittsburgh which has essentially no places to go for
> decent tea in person, so the Internet is one of my only sources except
> for rare occasions. I do seek out tea when I travel though and it's
> always great to actually go to really good tea shops.
>
> - Dominic

Many, many thanks -- this is exactly the type of information I need.
Interesting difference in our modes of preference -- I always want to
explore and get something new, albeit with a trusty base store of
reliables. I share your love of Japanese teas but, boy, are they
difficult to find. Ironically, some of the worst buys I made were in
Tokyo between shabu-shabus; if any types of tea have temperaments, its
high end Senchas, while blacks are at least placid and stolid.

From all the strands of discussion on this site, it seems to me that
the weak link in the US tea market is the store and that choosing tea,
learning about it and developing one's own tastes is the easy part.
Teavana -- which has maybe three or so decent teas -- succeeds only
because there's nothing any better around them.

On Oct 7, 5:54*pm, george tasman > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 5:44*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 7, 4:44*pm, george tasman > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 7, 4:15*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 7, 1:02*pm, george tasman > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 7, 10:34*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> > > > > > george tasman > writes:
> > > > > > > An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
> > > > > > > so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
> > > > > > > mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap *in
> > > > > > > oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
> > > > > > > light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
> > > > > > > taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
> > > > > > > recently to stick with Taiwanese.
>
> > > > > > What Wuyi oolongs have been on the light side?
>
> > > > > > /Lew
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Lew Perin /
>
> > > > > Let's see,,,,,
>
> > > > > Two workhorse, lowish price generics -- Wegman's Wuyi (a good buy but
> > > > > indistinguishable from a green), Adagio Ensemble -- plus a Sparrow's
> > > > > Tongue, Zhong Shan and "organic" Water Sprite. I've used the published
> > > > > figures on oxidization percent in scanning and have looked for heavy
> > > > > oxidization as a guideline.
>
> > > > OK, well it seems like the issue may be more with the vendors than the
> > > > teas themselves. I'm a big Wegmans fan but their teas are highly
> > > > overpriced and lower quality, they are essentially just loose leaf
> > > > Republic of Tea. Not a real good measuring stick as far as tea goes..
> > > > (but their jasmine pearls, ginger peach black, and black raspberry
> > > > sage black, are all decent for flavored teas)
>
> > > > Adagio is basically the same story. Overpriced and underperforming.
> > > > Same with Teavanna except there you get deceptive service and terrible
> > > > people as a bonus.
>
> > > > Not trying to be overly critical but none of these would be any of our
> > > > recommendations around here. You can get much higher quality tea for
> > > > the same or less money from reputable vendors that will take the time
> > > > and effort to help and guide you.
>
> > > > All of those teas you mentioned are actually very good teas, just not
> > > > from the sources you chose, that's all. Shui Xian (also known as Shui
> > > > Hsien or "water sprite") can have many forms, try one that is medium
> > > > roasted and one heavily roasted. Teaspring.com, Houde Asian Art,
> > > > Imperial Tea court, and possibly Jing Teashop should all have this and
> > > > you should be able to find one or two in your price range. Same for Wu
> > > > Yi's or Dan Congs, which are both oolongs and should fit the bill all
> > > > from those same places. The sparrow or bird's tongue ("que she") can
> > > > be harder to find and is one of those teas that freshness and quality
> > > > is the main focus, I don't have a great source for this and just
> > > > happily stumble upon it every now and then. Upton Tea is another site
> > > > that will easily beat the prices you were paying and offer better tea
> > > > but it just isn't quite the quality available from the others I
> > > > mentioned. It is a great place to get your feet wet and experiment
> > > > though.
>
> > > > Hopefully that will help point you in the right direction and get you
> > > > some solid teas to try.
>
> > > > - Dominic
>
> > > Thanks for the comments. I agree with you about Adagio -- I got given
> > > it as a gift. The Wegman's I buy for the Wuyi and jasmine green only
> > > because it's the best I can find in a shop.
> > > The problem is locating a vendor -- there aren't any of quality near
> > > me. The few within driving distance are clearly buying from some
> > > wholesaler on the cheap and even where their teas have the names it's
> > > clear they re not top quality -- I've given up on Dragonwell as being
> > > anything from dyed paper towel torn up to flaccid if-you-try-hard-you-
> > > can taste-something-perhaps. (I've had "young" Hyson and Ceylons
> > > recently that were half the price of specialty vendors and overpriced
> > > at that.)
>
> > > The online vendors don't really offer much help. I should probably try
> > > more of Upton's offers, but I haven't been that impressed. Your sound
> > > advice of finding one that will be personally helpful is what I'd like
> > > but haven't found. I tried a good Australian supplier who specialized
> > > in oolongs and has a great catalog but viewed delivery as not really
> > > their responsibility -- four months for an incomplete shipment with
> > > substitutions. Which vendor(s) would you pick as superb specialized
> > > catalog/good service?
>
> > Many online vendors actually provide great service and help. It's hard
> > at first to figure out which do but fire off an email with some of
> > your questions to a couple and you will quickly find who are helpful.
> > Others here can probably add a few but my list of my go-tos a
>
> > Teaspring.com (daniel is very helpful, prices are great, Chinese teas
> > only)
> > Stephane Erler (a great guy and extremely knowledgable)
> > Houde Asian Art (can be pricey at times but always worth it)
> > Jing Tea Shop (not always a first pick for me just because of the teas
> > I drink but always excellent)
> > Hibiki-an/o-cha for Japanese greens (pricey but again mostly worth it)
> > Imperial tea court (some like them, some don't but generally the
> > reasoning is not the quality of the leaf itself)
> > Yunnan Sourcing LLC (an ebay shop but great teas and prices, good
> > place for Puer)
> > Upton Tea (Maybe if I were into black teas and darjeelings it would be
> > more of a choice, but I'm not really and they never wow me like the
> > places listed above)
>
> > Now, you have to realize my tea tastes dictate where I go for tea. I
> > drink mainly Japanese greens, a few non-green non-flowery oolongs,
> > yellow tea, jasmine green, chamomile, and not much else daily. I
> > occasionally dig into a new area of tea just to experience it but I
> > rarely find one or two that end up staying around.
>
> > I live near Pittsburgh which has essentially no places to go for
> > decent tea in person, so the Internet is one of my only sources except
> > for rare occasions. I do seek out tea when I travel though and it's
> > always great to actually go to really good tea shops.
>
> > - Dominic
>
> Many, many thanks -- this is exactly the type of information I need.
> Interesting difference *in our modes of preference -- I always want to
> explore and get something new, albeit with a trusty base store of
> reliables. I share your love of Japanese teas but, boy, are they
> difficult to find. Ironically, some of the worst buys I made were in
> Tokyo between shabu-shabus; if any types of tea have temperaments, its
> high end Senchas, while blacks are at least placid and stolid.
>
> From all the strands of discussion on this site, it seems to me that
> the weak link in the US tea market is the store and that choosing tea,
> learning about it and developing one's own tastes is the easy part.
> Teavana -- which has maybe three or so decent teas -- succeeds only
> because there's nothing any better around them.

Actually they "succeed" in misinformation and deceit, which is not
success in my book. I've brought up a few times my interest and desire
to open an actual tea shop/cafe and the numbers just never work. It is
almost impossible to honestly run a tea shop in brick and mortar form
in most cities in the U.S. There are a few exceptions and a few cities
that can make it work, but it's essentially a money sink without
giving in to either coffee, some additional revenue source, or deceit.

Japanese teas are a tricky lot and take a lot of patience and
unfortunately money to get right. I buy only a few specific ones a
couple times a year as treats. Gyokuro and two senchas (one fresh
during the initial harvests, and one a month or three later) If the
year seems to be particularly good I'll go back for more of the first
stuff. And I'll keep some matcha around. Otherwise it is just basic
bancha for daily drinking.

Believe me I was at an exploration point too for a long time (still am
to some extent) but there are certain areas I've explored pretty
heavily and know exactly what I like, that cuts back the need for more
than a couple of a certain type. When I range outside of it I rarely
come across something better and ultimately wish I had just stuck to
my standards.

- Dominic

On Oct 7, 9:39*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 5:54*pm, george tasman > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 7, 5:44*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 7, 4:44*pm, george tasman > wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 7, 4:15*pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Oct 7, 1:02*pm, george tasman > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Oct 7, 10:34*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > george tasman > writes:
> > > > > > > > An earlier post asking how many teas you have (I typically have 12 or
> > > > > > > > so) got me thinking about what I don't have. I'm pretty happy with my
> > > > > > > > mix that fits my moods and time of day but I've got a big gap *in
> > > > > > > > oolongs and would appreciate recommendations. Mine are all on the
> > > > > > > > light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the big oolongs -- rich
> > > > > > > > taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with some bite. I've tended
> > > > > > > > recently to stick with Taiwanese.
>
> > > > > > > What Wuyi oolongs have been on the light side?
>
> > > > > > > /Lew
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Lew Perin /
>
> > > > > > Let's see,,,,,
>
> > > > > > Two workhorse, lowish price generics -- Wegman's Wuyi (a good buy but
> > > > > > indistinguishable from a green), Adagio Ensemble -- plus a Sparrow's
> > > > > > Tongue, Zhong Shan and "organic" Water Sprite. I've used the published
> > > > > > figures on oxidization percent in scanning and have looked for heavy
> > > > > > oxidization as a guideline.
>
> > > > > OK, well it seems like the issue may be more with the vendors than the
> > > > > teas themselves. I'm a big Wegmans fan but their teas are highly
> > > > > overpriced and lower quality, they are essentially just loose leaf
> > > > > Republic of Tea. Not a real good measuring stick as far as tea goes.
> > > > > (but their jasmine pearls, ginger peach black, and black raspberry
> > > > > sage black, are all decent for flavored teas)
>
> > > > > Adagio is basically the same story. Overpriced and underperforming.
> > > > > Same with Teavanna except there you get deceptive service and terrible
> > > > > people as a bonus.
>
> > > > > Not trying to be overly critical but none of these would be any of our
> > > > > recommendations around here. You can get much higher quality tea for
> > > > > the same or less money from reputable vendors that will take the time
> > > > > and effort to help and guide you.
>
> > > > > All of those teas you mentioned are actually very good teas, just not
> > > > > from the sources you chose, that's all. Shui Xian (also known as Shui
> > > > > Hsien or "water sprite") can have many forms, try one that is medium
> > > > > roasted and one heavily roasted. Teaspring.com, Houde Asian Art,
> > > > > Imperial Tea court, and possibly Jing Teashop should all have this and
> > > > > you should be able to find one or two in your price range. Same for Wu
> > > > > Yi's or Dan Congs, which are both oolongs and should fit the bill all
> > > > > from those same places. The sparrow or bird's tongue ("que she") can
> > > > > be harder to find and is one of those teas that freshness and quality
> > > > > is the main focus, I don't have a great source for this and just
> > > > > happily stumble upon it every now and then. Upton Tea is another site
> > > > > that will easily beat the prices you were paying and offer better tea
> > > > > but it just isn't quite the quality available from the others I
> > > > > mentioned. It is a great place to get your feet wet and experiment
> > > > > though.
>
> > > > > Hopefully that will help point you in the right direction and get you
> > > > > some solid teas to try.
>
> > > > > - Dominic
>
> > > > Thanks for the comments. I agree with you about Adagio -- I got given
> > > > it as a gift. The Wegman's I buy for the Wuyi and jasmine green only
> > > > because it's the best I can find in a shop.
> > > > The problem is locating a vendor -- there aren't any of quality near
> > > > me. The few within driving distance are clearly buying from some
> > > > wholesaler on the cheap and even where their teas have the names it's
> > > > clear they re not top quality -- I've given up on Dragonwell as being
> > > > anything from dyed paper towel torn up to flaccid if-you-try-hard-you-
> > > > can taste-something-perhaps. (I've had "young" Hyson and Ceylons
> > > > recently that were half the price of specialty vendors and overpriced
> > > > at that.)
>
> > > > The online vendors don't really offer much help. I should probably try
> > > > more of Upton's offers, but I haven't been that impressed. Your sound
> > > > advice of finding one that will be personally helpful is what I'd like
> > > > but haven't found. I tried a good Australian supplier who specialized
> > > > in oolongs and has a great catalog but viewed delivery as not really
> > > > their responsibility -- four months for an incomplete shipment with
> > > > substitutions. Which vendor(s) would you pick as superb specialized
> > > > catalog/good service?
>
> > > Many online vendors actually provide great service and help. It's hard
> > > at first to figure out which do but fire off an email with some of
> > > your questions to a couple and you will quickly find who are helpful.
> > > Others here can probably add a few but my list of my go-tos a
>
> > > Teaspring.com (daniel is very helpful, prices are great, Chinese teas
> > > only)
> > > Stephane Erler (a great guy and extremely knowledgable)
> > > Houde Asian Art (can be pricey at times but always worth it)
> > > Jing Tea Shop (not always a first pick for me just because of the teas
> > > I drink but always excellent)
> > > Hibiki-an/o-cha for Japanese greens (pricey but again mostly worth it)
> > > Imperial tea court (some like them, some don't but generally the
> > > reasoning is not the quality of the leaf itself)
> > > Yunnan Sourcing LLC (an ebay shop but great teas and prices, good
> > > place for Puer)
> > > Upton Tea (Maybe if I were into black teas and darjeelings it would be
> > > more of a choice, but I'm not really and they never wow me like the
> > > places listed above)
>
> > > Now, you have to realize my tea tastes dictate where I go for tea. I
> > > drink mainly Japanese greens, a few non-green non-flowery oolongs,
> > > yellow tea, jasmine green, chamomile, and not much else daily. I
> > > occasionally dig into a new area of tea just to experience it but I
> > > rarely find one or two that end up staying around.
>
> > > I live near Pittsburgh which has essentially no places to go for
> > > decent tea in person, so the Internet is one of my only sources except
> > > for rare occasions. I do seek out tea when I travel though and it's
> > > always great to actually go to really good tea shops.
>
> > > - Dominic
>
> > Many, many thanks -- this is exactly the type of information I need.
> > Interesting difference *in our modes of preference -- I always want to
> > explore and get something new, albeit with a trusty base store of
> > reliables. I share your love of Japanese teas but, boy, are they
> > difficult to find. Ironically, some of the worst buys I made were in
> > Tokyo between shabu-shabus; if any types of tea have temperaments, its
> > high end Senchas, while blacks are at least placid and stolid.
>
> > From all the strands of discussion on this site, it seems to me that
> > the weak link in the US tea market is the store and that choosing tea,
> > learning about it and developing one's own tastes is the easy part.
> > Teavana -- which has maybe three or so decent teas -- succeeds only
> > because there's nothing any better around them.
>
> Actually they "succeed" in misinformation and deceit, which is not
> success in my book. I've brought up a few times my interest and desire
> to open an actual tea shop/cafe and the numbers just never work. It is
> almost impossible to honestly run a tea shop in brick and mortar form
> in most cities in the U.S. There are a few exceptions and a few cities
> that can make it work, but it's essentially a money sink without
> giving in to either coffee, some additional revenue source, or deceit.
>
> Japanese teas are a tricky lot and take a lot of patience and
> unfortunately money to get right. I buy only a few specific ones a
> couple times a year as treats. Gyokuro and two senchas (one fresh
> during the initial harvests, and one a month or three later) If the
> year seems to be particularly good I'll go back for more of the first
> stuff. And I'll keep some matcha around. Otherwise it is just basic
> bancha for daily drinking.
>
> Believe me I was at an exploration point too for a long time (still am
> to some extent) but there are certain areas I've explored pretty
> heavily and know exactly what I like, that cuts back the need for more
> than a couple of a certain type. When I range outside of it I rarely
> come across something better and ultimately wish I had just stuck to
> my standards.
>
> - Dominic

I've noticed that my palate has changed greatly over the past few
years, whereas my taste in wines remains pretty constant. I wonder if
this is typical or just that as I move towards the big seven zero in
age there are biological factors at work. Probably because of my Brit
upbringing, I was very much attracted to black teas and found very few
greens interesting. Now I find that subtle flavor is more satisfying
than big taste. Adams Peak, which I buy when I can afford taking a
second mortage out to finance it is perhaps my favorite of all teas
now. Hence my growing love of great Japanese teas, especially Gyokuro.
Properly brewed, it's a joy but my own efforts are generally a bust of
truly nasty acrid Lucrezia Borgia specials. I plan to take your advice
on trying to make more direct connection with Real People among the
online vendors, since I do see that my buying is very hit and miss.
Alas, I can't see the bricks and mortar players ever making things
work. It's very much like old-style bookstores; they have little
choice but to go the Teavan route -- they can't afford knowledgable
staff and have to go for the high margin known names in pretty cans
and gifs/accessories. I notice a distinct decline in the big gourmet
food stores. Wegman's carries fewer and fewer good teas and more and
more of those damned green teas with florist leftover petals added.
Whole Foods is a lost cause. Ah well, I'll keep looking.

I appreciate and approve the RFDT community insistence on no vendor
huckstering but it really is a help to get careful identification of
the proven best vendors.

On 2009-10-07, george tasman > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 10:34*am, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>> george tasman > writes:

>> > Mine are all on the light side -- jade, wuyi -- and I'm missing the
>> > big oolongs -- rich taste, plenty of fragrance, smooth but with
>> > some bite. I've tended recently to stick with Taiwanese.

>> What Wuyi oolongs have been on the light side?

> Adagio Ensemble -- plus a Sparrow's Tongue, Zhong Shan and "organic"
> Water Sprite. I've used the published figures on oxidization percent
> in scanning and have looked for heavy oxidization as a guideline.

Agree with Lew about trying Wuyi tea from better sources. But just to
clarify a little, oxidation and roasting are two different factors.
Oxidation will turn the tea leaves redder, and will give some
fruitiness, and start to take away the vegetal taste of the greenest
oolongs. Roasting, especially heavy charcoal roasting will impart more
of the "bigness" you're looking for, as well as a caramel-y sweetness,
and some other flavors. It sounds like you are looking for a tea with a
heavy dose of both.

I think there is a slight tendency (as with most oolongs) towards
lighter oxidation and roasting these days. Also, I think certain Wuyi
teas are traditionally processed more or less heavily depending on the
specific variety. There are a ton of different combination of these
factors, so it's just a matter of finding a tea that suits your taste.

You could also try some more traditionally processed Tieguanyin; it's
difficult to find good examples these days; for the most part, the HK
shops are the main places you can get Anxi Tieguanyin with this style of
processing. Mu Zha (in Taiwan) Tieguanyin tends also to have more
traditional processing.

It's really hard to find really stellar examples of any of these teas,
and I can't think of one or two sources that are easy to order from that
I would recommend without any reservations. But here are some Teachat
threads that might be helpful (as far as specific vendor
recommendations).

Wuyi:
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?p=47248
[if you look around, I think you can find some other threads with
specific recommendations too]

TGY:
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10989
http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t=7390

--
Multi-lingual forum for Chinese and Japanese tea and teawa
http://teadrunk.org/

On 2009-10-08, george tasman > wrote:

> I plan to take your advice on trying to make more direct connection
> with Real People among the online vendors, since I do see that my
> buying is very hit and miss.

I do think that the best system is where you can visit a great vendor in
person, and try the tea before buying. But unfortunately, in the US,
there's just not the market for these sorts of teas (yet) to really
support that.

But one nice thing with online vendors is that you can get small samples
and then try brewing the tea yourself with your own teaware, water, etc.
While a skilled brewer might be able to do a better job, it's still a
better situation than a lot of brick and mortar tea shops, and brewing a
tea 2-3 times will give you a better view of it than just trying it
once.

The bad part of buying stuff online is that you'll end up with a lot of
tea you don't like, especially at first. Over time, you'll get a sense
of what certain descriptions mean, which vendors you can trust, which
vendors you share certain preferences with, etc.

And if you're buying from shops which don't let you try the tea at all..
well you might as well buy online.

> Alas, I can't see the bricks and mortar players ever making things
> work. It's very much like old-style bookstores; they have little
> choice but to go the Teavan route -- they can't afford knowledgable
> staff and have to go for the high margin known names in pretty cans
> and gifs/accessories.

It looks like maybe you're in the DC area? I think there are one or two
shops that specialize in Chinese tea in that area.

By the way, it's great that you're not top posting, but TRIM the quoted
material when responding! I have to scroll through pages of irrelevant
quoted material to read your and Lew's exchange.

--
Multi-lingual forum for Chinese and Japanese tea and teawa
http://teadrunk.org/

I dont have any trouble with the Teavana hard sell. I think they are
a net plus by introducing people to tea who arent cruising the city
looking for unknown tea shoppes. Its better than the green tea weight
lost carts on the mall. Im in a guys house recently. He showed me a
$1000 China Postal box he just received from Yunnan Sourcing. We
tasted some puer from previous shipments. I complimented him on his
choice of teaware for the tasting and asked him where he got it.
Teavana.

Jim

On Oct 7, 7:39 pm, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Oct 7, 5:54 pm, george tasman > wrote:

> > From all the strands of discussion on this site, it seems to me that
> > the weak link in the US tea market is the store and that choosing tea,
> > learning about it and developing one's own tastes is the easy part.
> > Teavana -- which has maybe three or so decent teas -- succeeds only
> > because there's nothing any better around them.
>
> Actually they "succeed" in misinformation and deceit, which is not
> success in my book. I've brought up a few times my interest and desire
> to open an actual tea shop/cafe and the numbers just never work. It is
> almost impossible to honestly run a tea shop in brick and mortar form
> in most cities in the U.S. There are a few exceptions and a few cities
> that can make it work, but it's essentially a money sink without
> giving in to either coffee, some additional revenue source, or deceit.
>
> Japanese teas are a tricky lot and take a lot of patience and
> unfortunately money to get right. I buy only a few specific ones a
> couple times a year as treats. Gyokuro and two senchas (one fresh
> during the initial harvests, and one a month or three later) If the
> year seems to be particularly good I'll go back for more of the first
> stuff. And I'll keep some matcha around. Otherwise it is just basic
> bancha for daily drinking.
>
> Believe me I was at an exploration point too for a long time (still am
> to some extent) but there are certain areas I've explored pretty
> heavily and know exactly what I like, that cuts back the need for more
> than a couple of a certain type. When I range outside of it I rarely
> come across something better and ultimately wish I had just stuck to
> my standards.
>
> - Dominic

On Oct 8, 8:51*am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> I dont have any trouble with the Teavana hard sell. *I think they are
> a net plus by introducing people to tea who arent cruising the city
> looking for unknown tea shoppes. *Its better than the green tea weight
> lost carts on the mall. *Im in a guys house recently. *He showed me a
> $1000 China Postal box he just received from Yunnan Sourcing. *We
> tasted some puer from previous shipments. *I complimented him on his
> choice of teaware for the tasting and asked him where he got it.
> Teavana.
>
> Jim

I'm not saying all of their tea and wares are terrible, I'm saying the
entire business model is, their treatment of employees, and the
general ethos of Teavana. I bet there are a couple good teas, I'm sure
there are a few knowledgeable folks, I'm sure one can find a really
good pot... but my point is why. Wouldn't you rather give that same
(often less) money to someone who is doing things right? Who *is*
knowledgeable, who *is* the owner and employee or who treats and hires
skilled folks properly, who stocks all exceptional items and who takes
pride in them.

The community for quality tea in the U.S. is small, why make it harder
for the good guys to win by diluting the relatively small amount of
money flowing through this market to vendors and outlets who don't
deserve it? That ensures only that we will get more Teavanas and
Adagios in the future because they are the only ones who can survive.
I don't want to see that happen, it would be a true shame.

People are free to vote with their dollars however and wherever they
like, some know full well what these places are and still choose to
patronize them, some folks simply do not know that there are better,
more reputable, places out there. I've had family and friends honestly
think that they got a great deal and that this place is the pinnacle
of tea, once they realize they over-payed by 50-100%+ or got garbage
and were outright lied to they are genuinely shocked. That doesn't
help tea or the fostering of tea culture in America at all.

That's all I'm trying to convey.

- Dominic

PS In college I worked at Radioshack. A terrible place that preys on
the same ignorance and uses the same tactics as Teavana. I was
actually skilled and knowledgeable and didn't resort to the standard
crap, I was always in the top sales for the entire district and had
happy loyal customers. I'd get reamed at meetings for not using
scumbag tactics and pushed and penalized, just like many accounts from
Teavana workers, I didn't give in and I don't think anyone should have
to in these circumstances. Luckily for me it was just a temporary job,
but for many it is not.

You cant fault the location, location, location business model. SqFt
isnt cheap and the prices ballpark for what they sell. I dont think
they subtract from a tea shoppe bottom line. People eat at chain
restaurants because it is convenient. The tea shoppes will benefit in
the long run from the spill over like when some get the bug to find
out more or just from the shear foot traffic curiosity. My local
British tea shoppe doesnt know that much about Chinese teas. My local
Chinese tea shoppe doesnt know that much about British teas. What
advice would I get if I choose the wrong place. And neither of them
heard about cambric tea when I encountered it last Christmas. When I
speak of tea shoppes I mean a Brick-N-Mortar. Not some guy filling
online tea orders in a warehouse with the bin covers off because it
isnt his responsibility to put them back on. And Ill make sure the
samples you get in the mail dont match what you order. The tea
industry needs their version of a Starbucks. Not because they are the
best but allow others to fill niche markets.

Jim

On Oct 8, 8:38 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Oct 8, 8:51 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
>
> > I dont have any trouble with the Teavana hard sell.
>
> I'm not saying all of their tea and wares are terrible, I'm saying the
> entire business model is, their treatment of employees, and the
> general ethos of Teavana. I bet there are a couple good teas, I'm sure
> there are a few knowledgeable folks, I'm sure one can find a really
> good pot... but my point is why. Wouldn't you rather give that same
> (often less) money to someone who is doing things right? Who *is*
> knowledgeable, who *is* the owner and employee or who treats and hires
> skilled folks properly, who stocks all exceptional items and who takes
> pride in them.
>
> The community for quality tea in the U.S. is small, why make it harder
> for the good guys to win by diluting the relatively small amount of
> money flowing through this market to vendors and outlets who don't
> deserve it? That ensures only that we will get more Teavanas and
> Adagios in the future because they are the only ones who can survive.
> I don't want to see that happen, it would be a true shame.
>
> People are free to vote with their dollars however and wherever they
> like, some know full well what these places are and still choose to
> patronize them, some folks simply do not know that there are better,
> more reputable, places out there. I've had family and friends honestly
> think that they got a great deal and that this place is the pinnacle
> of tea, once they realize they over-payed by 50-100%+ or got garbage
> and were outright lied to they are genuinely shocked. That doesn't
> help tea or the fostering of tea culture in America at all.
>
> That's all I'm trying to convey.
>
> - Dominic

On Oct 9, 9:19*am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> You cant fault the location, location, location business model. *SqFt
> isnt cheap and the prices ballpark for what they sell. *I dont think
> they subtract from a tea shoppe bottom line. *People eat at chain
> restaurants because it is convenient. *The tea shoppes will benefit in
> the long run from the spill over like when some get the bug to find
> out more or just from the shear foot traffic curiosity. *My local
> British tea shoppe doesnt know that much about Chinese teas. *My local
> Chinese tea shoppe doesnt know that much about British teas. *What
> advice would I get if I choose the wrong place. *And neither of them
> heard about cambric tea when I encountered it last Christmas. *When I
> speak of tea shoppes I mean a Brick-N-Mortar. *Not some guy filling
> online tea orders in a warehouse with the bin covers off because it
> isnt his responsibility to put them back on. *And Ill make sure the
> samples you get in the mail dont match what you order. *The tea
> industry needs their version of a Starbucks. *Not because they are the
> best but allow others to fill niche markets.
>
> Jim

Totally blows my mind, but hey you are welcome to your opinion.

- Dominic

You dont think there are people asking themselves if Teavana can do it
so can I. Previously they looked at failed tea shoppes and said it
isnt worth it.

Jim

On Oct 9, 8:04 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Oct 9, 9:19 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
....Teavana for better or worse...
>
> Totally blows my mind, but hey you are welcome to your opinion.
>
> - Dominic

On Oct 9, 10:56*am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> You dont think there are people asking themselves if Teavana can do it
> so can I. *Previously they looked at failed tea shoppes and said it
> isnt worth it.
>
> Jim
>
> On Oct 9, 8:04 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:> On Oct 9, 9:19 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
>
> ...Teavana for better or worse...
>
>
>
> > Totally blows my mind, but hey you are welcome to your opinion.
>
> > - Dominic

No. It can't be done in 90% of U.S. locations without resorting to the
exact same tactics of Teavana when you actually run the numbers, so
all it does it solidify that the only way to exist is to copy their
model. There are some other ways which would include adding food, or
some other attraction, or succumbing to coffee. These move the focus
away from tea a bit and they also add a considerable expense and
barrier to entry.

When you actually take in numbers (which I've done) they just aren't
large enough to support tea. In one instance near me coffee outsells
tea by 30:1 and the margins are so vastly different that the tea
actually loses money and is only absorbed by the other sales. This is
with middling quality tea which wouldn't be seen as even close to
anyone here's standards. When you factor in good tea it gets grimmer.

I actually think Teavana is a fad and will dwindle away completely or
down to a few performing stores, malls and high rent places aren't
sustainable and their business model ensures that they go under. Half
of their customers will eventually grow in tea and realize that there
are better/different vendors with better pricing, and half will be
happy to stay at their level. They may choose to evolve a bit to
counteract this or they will have to become a Starbucks-like
franchise. I don't see either happening. We shall see.

- Dominic

I want to see a national chain synonymous with the word tea. Ill see
the noname tea shops spring up to provide competition like you see
with the wannabees feasting on Starbucks. 90% of new businesses fail
which has nothing to do with the competition.

Jim

On Oct 9, 9:26 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:
> On Oct 9, 10:56 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
>
> > You dont think there are people asking themselves if Teavana can do it
> > so can I. Previously they looked at failed tea shoppes and said it
> > isnt worth it.
>
> > Jim
>
> > On Oct 9, 8:04 am, "Dominic T." > wrote:> On Oct 9, 9:19 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
>
> > ...Teavana for better or worse...
>
> > > Totally blows my mind, but hey you are welcome to your opinion.
>
> > > - Dominic
>
> No. It can't be done in 90% of U.S. locations without resorting to the
> exact same tactics of Teavana when you actually run the numbers, so
> all it does it solidify that the only way to exist is to copy their
> model.