Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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Old 01-03-2008, 08:00 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

Tea People,

I just watched the "Caffeinated" episode of Unwrapped on the Food
Nework. The master blender (or taster or whatever his title was) at
Lipton said that a 15-20 second steep will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the
caffeine levels of subsequent steeps. ARGH!!!!

Thanks. I just had to vent.

Alan

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Old 01-03-2008, 09:57 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

Alan writes:

I just watched the "Caffeinated" episode of Unwrapped on the Food
Nework. The master blender (or taster or whatever his title was) at
Lipton said that a 15-20 second steep will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the
caffeine levels of subsequent steeps. ARGH!!!!


Do you really think he's ignorant ("should know better")? I suspect
he's just stretching the truth as far as possible without telling a
lie. Maybe I'm just cynical. And I didn't see the show, of course.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:04 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

On Mar 1, 1:57*pm, Lewis Perin wrote:
Alan writes:
I just watched the "Caffeinated" episode of Unwrapped on the Food
Nework. The master blender (or taster or whatever his title was) at
Lipton said that a 15-20 second steep will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the
caffeine levels of subsequent steeps. ARGH!!!!


Do you really think he's ignorant ("should know better")? *I suspect
he's just stretching the truth as far as possible without telling a
lie. *Maybe I'm just cynical. *And I didn't see the show, of course.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /


Why would a man who sells mediocre tea to millions who may or may not
be affected by caffeine lie? And, how much expertise does it take to
be a "Master Blender" for Lipton?
I've just jumped into the cynical pool.
Shen
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:30 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

On Mar 1, 5:04 pm, Shen wrote:
On Mar 1, 1:57 pm, Lewis Perin wrote:

Alan writes:
I just watched the "Caffeinated" episode of Unwrapped on the Food
Nework. The master blender (or taster or whatever his title was) at
Lipton said that a 15-20 second steep will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the
caffeine levels of subsequent steeps. ARGH!!!!


Do you really think he's ignorant ("should know better")? I suspect
he's just stretching the truth as far as possible without telling a
lie. Maybe I'm just cynical. And I didn't see the show, of course.


/Lew
---
Lew Perin /


Why would a man who sells mediocre tea to millions who may or may not
be affected by caffeine lie? And, how much expertise does it take to
be a "Master Blender" for Lipton?
I've just jumped into the cynical pool.
Shen


Heh, I thought the same thing the first time I saw that episode but
then they go into the 20+ (IIRC) teas they blend to keep the flavor
consistent. I'm sure it is actually a fairly skilled job but still
mediocre. I'd guess it would be like being Master Vintner at Arbor
Mist.

- Dominic

P.S. So your saying the 15-20 second steep won't reduce the
caffeine?
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Old 01-03-2008, 10:36 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

On Mar 1, 3:00*pm, Alan wrote:
Tea People,

I just watched the "Caffeinated" episode of Unwrapped on the Food
Nework. The master blender (or taster or whatever his title was) at
Lipton said that a 15-20 second steep will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the
caffeine levels of subsequent steeps. ARGH!!!!

Thanks. I just had to vent.

Alan


So if it reduces caffeine by 15-20% you don't think it's
significant?

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN


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Old 01-03-2008, 11:33 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

where again is the link to the study that says it takes much longer to get
out the caffeine? Couldn't find it from before. thx


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Old 02-03-2008, 01:04 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

On Mar 1, 3:33*pm, "Slippy" wrote:
where again is the link to the study that says it takes much longer to get
out the caffeine? *Couldn't find it from before. *thx


Nigel! Nigel! Where are you, Nigel??
It's the old caffeine sticky mess again...................we need you!
Shen
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Old 02-03-2008, 01:49 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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On Mar 1, 4:33*pm, "Slippy" wrote:
where again is the link to the study that says it takes much longer to get
out the caffeine? *Couldn't find it from before. *thx


I set the wayback machine to skip over the em eye five messages and
found this:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...a7df2abe2ef44#

I don't believe we ever found conclusive results for short steeps
(shorter than five minutes) though.

To answer MarshallN's question: no, I don't consider 15-20%
significant (yes, I saw your smiley). Part of the problem, as I'm sure
WE all know, is that people are looking for a way to decaffeinate
their favorite tea, where "decaffeinate" means "remove almost all
caffeine". Yes, 15-20% may be significant from a science experiment
point of view, but not from the POV of someone who has to avoid
caffeine for health reasons.

While most of us here look down on Lipton, I have to believe that even
a brand that caters to the masses is employing someone who knows
something about tea to do their blending. Keep in mind that the
problem with putting out a consistent product is that it is
consistently mediocre. Think about it: you have to be able to produce
the same product during good years and bad years. It simply cannot be
top quality every time. The bar has to be lowered to be able to jump
over it each year.

Alan
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:12 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

[slippy] where again is the link to the study that says it takes much
longer to get out the caffeine? Couldn't find it from before. thx

[shen] Nigel! Nigel! Where are you, Nigel?? It's the old caffeine
sticky mess again...................we need you!

[corax] at the moment nigel is, i believe, trotting the globe once
again, but his latest summation of the evidence on caffeine levels in
tea -- and common misperceptions about decaffeinating tea -- is
conveniently located [with some new material added as well] for all to
read at CHA DAO. this [permanent] short link will whisk you thither in
a trice:

http://tinyurl.com/2kgwy4

there is already a whole string of comments there, too, which make
interesting reading, and to which readers are invited to contribute.
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Old 02-03-2008, 05:56 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

On Mar 1, 7:49*pm, Alan wrote:
On Mar 1, 4:33*pm, "Slippy" wrote:

where again is the link to the study that says it takes much longer to get
out the caffeine? *Couldn't find it from before. *thx


I set the wayback machine to skip over the em eye five messages and
found this:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...e_thread/threa...

I don't believe we ever found conclusive results for short steeps
(shorter than five minutes) though.

To answer MarshallN's question: no, I don't consider 15-20%
significant (yes, I saw your smiley). Part of the problem, as I'm sure
WE all know, is that people are looking for a way to decaffeinate
their favorite tea, where "decaffeinate" means "remove almost all
caffeine". Yes, 15-20% may be significant from a science experiment
point of view, but not from the POV of someone who has to avoid
caffeine for health reasons.

While most of us here look down on Lipton, I have to believe that even
a brand that caters to the masses is employing someone who knows
something about tea to do their blending. Keep in mind that the
problem with putting out a consistent product is that it is
consistently mediocre. Think about it: you have to be able to produce
the same product during good years and bad years. It simply cannot be
top quality every time. The bar has to be lowered to be able to jump
over it each year.

Alan


One thing I haven't seen addressed: with black tea I use one steeping,
or occasionally two. With green tea I use up to seven steepings. I
think what I do may be typical of a lot of others' practice. If so,
it would seem to be that even if black and green tea start out as
essentially the same in caffeine, the later steepings of green tea
would have less. Toci


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Old 02-03-2008, 06:10 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

One thing I haven't seen addressed: with black tea I use one steeping,
or occasionally two. With green tea I use up to seven steepings. I
think what I do may be typical of a lot of others' practice. If so,
it would seem to be that even if black and green tea start out as
essentially the same in caffeine, the later steepings of green tea
would have less. Toci


Which is of course why you must increase the steep time, each time. I
always thought I lost almost all the caffeine in the first steep. But now,
if those studies are right, it seems that you can get fairly consistent
caffeine on subsequent steepings by increasing the time a minute or so each
time.


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Old 02-03-2008, 06:14 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Which is of course why you must increase the steep time, each time. I
always thought I lost almost all the caffeine in the first steep. But

now,
if those studies are right, it seems that you can get fairly consistent
caffeine on subsequent steepings by increasing the time a minute or so

each
time.


In fact, now that I mention it, I'd love to see an experiment where they
compare the caffeine in 4-5 different cups, all steeped from the same leaves
with the same amt of water. First steep is for (say) 2 minutes, second is
for 3 minutes, third is for 4, etc. I bet you'd get fairly consistent
caffeine in all the pours.


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Old 02-03-2008, 06:23 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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On Mar 1, 3:00*pm, Alan wrote:
Tea People,

I just watched the "Caffeinated" episode of Unwrapped on the Food
Nework. The master blender (or taster or whatever his title was) at
Lipton said that a 15-20 second steep will SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the
caffeine levels of subsequent steeps. ARGH!!!!

Thanks. I just had to vent.

Alan


I think it stands to reason that if you brew tea for 15 seconds that
the caffeine level and overall flavor level will be "significantly"
lower than if you brew for several minutes as Lipton recommends.
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:46 PM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

toci writes:

On Mar 1, 7:49*pm, Alan wrote:
On Mar 1, 4:33*pm, "Slippy" wrote:

where again is the link to the study that says it takes much
longer to get out the caffeine? *Couldn't find it from
before. *thx


I set the wayback machine to skip over the em eye five messages and
found this:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...e_thread/threa...

I don't believe we ever found conclusive results for short steeps
(shorter than five minutes) though.

To answer MarshallN's question: no, I don't consider 15-20%
significant (yes, I saw your smiley). Part of the problem, as I'm sure
WE all know, is that people are looking for a way to decaffeinate
their favorite tea, where "decaffeinate" means "remove almost all
caffeine". Yes, 15-20% may be significant from a science experiment
point of view, but not from the POV of someone who has to avoid
caffeine for health reasons.

While most of us here look down on Lipton, I have to believe that even
a brand that caters to the masses is employing someone who knows
something about tea to do their blending. Keep in mind that the
problem with putting out a consistent product is that it is
consistently mediocre. Think about it: you have to be able to produce
the same product during good years and bad years. It simply cannot be
top quality every time. The bar has to be lowered to be able to jump
over it each year.

Alan


One thing I haven't seen addressed: with black tea I use one steeping,
or occasionally two. With green tea I use up to seven steepings. I
think what I do may be typical of a lot of others' practice. If so,
it would seem to be that even if black and green tea start out as
essentially the same in caffeine, the later steepings of green tea
would have less. Toci


Probably even the earlier steeps of the green would have less
caffeine, if you brew your greens with shorter steeps and lower
temperatures than your blacks. (Most people do.)

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:19 AM posted to rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Caffeine and someone who should know better

Nigel here - newly returned from Rwanda in the pursuit of new
specialty teas - to find we are still debating the Camellia equivalent
of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
Thank you corax for the tinylink to my CHA DAO article which is
(virtually) my last word on the 30 second decaff issue - until I find
funding to do the actual lab work to prove/disprove the claim - all
asistance welcome.

Nigel at Teacraft


On Mar 2, 5:12*pm, corax wrote:
[slippy] where again is the link to the study that says it takes much
longer to get out the caffeine? *Couldn't find it from before. *thx

[shen] Nigel! Nigel! Where are you, Nigel?? It's the old caffeine
sticky mess again...................we need you!

[corax] at the moment nigel is, i believe, trotting the globe once
again, but his latest summation of the evidence on caffeine levels in
tea -- and common misperceptions about decaffeinating tea -- is
conveniently located [with some new material added as well] for all to
read at CHA DAO. this [permanent] short link will whisk you thither in
a trice:

http://tinyurl.com/2kgwy4

there is already a whole string of comments there, too, which make
interesting reading, and to which readers are invited to contribute.




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