I like the idea of tea because of the philosophy associated with it;
for me, that would be Taoism; but am into green tea because of a
cancer scare I had in '02. Had the bladder operation removing the
cancer and have been clear since, perhaps because of my change of
diet. Doctors mentioned taking Saw Palmetto, but nothing about
drinking green tea.

I looked up newsgroups talking about cancer diets and read about
Chinese green tea. A nurse who noted my intake of vitamins and
supplements commented that, yes green tea is drunk in China, and
Chinese have a low rate of bladder cancer, but they also have a higher
rate of stomach cancer. Doctor advised me to avoid tea with caffeine,
drink herbal instead.

Long story short, I drink daily a couple large mugs of Chinese green
tea, removing 80% of the caffeine with a 30 second blanch. To do
this, I heat to steaming filtered water in a pan, blanch the tea, pour
out the water, and pour in some pure distilled water I have heated to
only about 140 degree f, steeping the leaves at least twice more. So
far, I haven't invested in a tea pot or tried the caffeine-free tea
bags; but I may.

Mostly, I rely on local Asian stores for my supply, but to get Dragon
Well I've had to go on-line and pay the freight for 1lb bulk. After
looking over the 25K-some posts archived at this NG, I deduce that the
following retailers are a good bet: 1) Upton, 2) Culinary Teas, 3)
SpecialTeas.

Regards, bookburn





I

writes:

> [...]
>
> I looked up newsgroups talking about cancer diets and read about
> Chinese green tea. A nurse who noted my intake of vitamins and
> supplements commented that, yes green tea is drunk in China, and
> Chinese have a low rate of bladder cancer, but they also have a
> higher rate of stomach cancer. Doctor advised me to avoid tea with
> caffeine, drink herbal instead.

Did that doctor imply that caffeine was carcinogenic? That would be
new to me.

> Long story short, I drink daily a couple large mugs of Chinese green
> tea, removing 80% of the caffeine with a 30 second blanch.

Assuming you really want to remove most of the caffeine, 30 seconds
won't do it. We've been over this territory countless times in this
newsgroup. Please check the archives; I think you'll be persuaded.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

Lewis Perin > wrote in
news
....
>
> Did that doctor imply that caffeine was carcinogenic? That would be
> new to me.
....

That was unwelcome news to me, too, when a member of my cancer support
group said it too. However, googling provided

<http://www.benbest.com/health/caffeine.html>

"Nonetheless, more recent evidence does show a capacity
for caffeine to worsen the mutagenicity of ionizing
radiation and other carcinogenic agents through interference
with cell cycle control [MUTATION RESEARCH 532:85-102 (2003)]"


<http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/34/10/2720.pdf>,
a paper which did exhaustive tests on golden hamsters,seemed also to
indicate that caffiene made more potent more standard carcinogens.


<http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/8/1379>, 1992,
"Effects of caffeine, nicotine, ethanol and sodium selenite on
pancreatic carcinogenesis in hamsters...",

A Japanese study that showed a stastically significant increase in
cancer in hamsters that were injected with this toxic mix. Caffiene a
cancer "enabler" for the other carciogens...


<http://www.inchem.org/documents/iarc/vol51/04-caffeine.html>, 1991,
that states there there is inadequate evidence for the carcinogenicity
of caffiene (implicitly *by itself*) in both humans and experimental
animals.

-------------------

There are, as Winston Churchill said, three types of lies: lies, damned
lies, and statistics; and all of these studies are statistically based.
Yet I'm not going to alter my tea habits based on the above, and not
just because of tea's anti-cancer phenols, either. Life is just too
short to worry about everything.

Ozzy

[snip]
> There are, as Winston Churchill said, three types of lies: lies, damned
> lies, and statistics;

Actually, I believe this quote was originally attributed to Benjamin
Disraeli.

Dean

"DPM" > wrote...
> [snip]
>> There are, as Winston Churchill said, three types of lies: lies,
>> damned lies, and statistics;
>
> Actually, I believe this quote was originally attributed to Benjamin
> Disraeli.

Fuller story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_d...and_statistics

"Eventually all bon mots will be attributed to Winston Churchill, Mark
Twain or Dorothy Parker"
- George Bernard Shaw.

Matti

On Jan 7, 10:39*pm, Ozzy <please.answer@NG> wrote:
> Lewis Perin > wrote innews >
> ...
>
> > Did that doctor imply that caffeine was carcinogenic? *That would be
> > new to me.
>
> ...
>
> That was unwelcome news to me, too, when a member of my cancer support
> group said it too. *However, googling provided
>
> <http://www.benbest.com/health/caffeine.html>
>
> "Nonetheless, more recent evidence does show a capacity
> *for caffeine to worsen the mutagenicity of ionizing
> *radiation and other carcinogenic agents through interference
> *with cell cycle control [MUTATION RESEARCH 532:85-102 (2003)]"
>
> <http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/34/10/2720.pdf>,
> a paper which did exhaustive tests on golden hamsters,seemed also to
> indicate that caffiene made more potent more standard carcinogens.
>
> <http://carcin.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/8/1379>, 1992,
> "Effects of caffeine, nicotine, ethanol and sodium selenite on
> *pancreatic carcinogenesis in hamsters...",
>
> A Japanese study that showed a stastically significant increase in
> cancer in hamsters that were injected with this toxic mix. *Caffiene a
> cancer "enabler" for the other carciogens...
>
> <http://www.inchem.org/documents/iarc/vol51/04-caffeine.html>, 1991,
> that states there there is inadequate evidence for the carcinogenicity
> of caffiene (implicitly *by itself*) in both humans and experimental
> animals.
>
> * * * * -------------------
>
> There are, as Winston Churchill said, three types of lies: lies, damned
> lies, and statistics; and all of these studies are statistically based. *
> Yet I'm not going to alter my tea habits based on the above, and not
> just because of tea's anti-cancer phenols, either. *Life is just too
> short to worry about everything.
>
> Ozzy

Hold on a minute, guys.
Caffeine in moderation has been shown to inhibit cancer particularly
in the colon and there are now-being-conducted studies questioning the
duration and efficacy of ionizing radiation in some cases.
The antioxidant qualities in green tea (where been over this so many
times (see archives, this group) are unquestionable, at this point and
justified in many, many studies.
Stomach cancer is high in many Asian countries. Japan has a very, very
high rate. In my opinion due to a sky high consumption of sodium (and
possibly, high consumptions of raw fish and the heavy metals therein).
I would think nicotine, ethanol and all that salt would dis-ease
anything in Japan with or without tea.
To be honest, we don't really know about cancer in China because so
much of the medical data is unsubstantiated.
I would assume levels of gastrointestinal disease is climbing, in
general, due to high levels of pesticides, herbicides and additives in
foods and, of course, high levels of saturated fats and sodium.
Tea in sensible amounts is hardly a culprit.
Shen

On Jan 7, 10:00*am, wrote:
> I like the idea of tea because of the philosophy associated with it;
> for me, that would be Taoism; but am into green tea because of a
> cancer scare I had in '02. *Had the bladder operation removing the
> cancer and have been clear since, perhaps because of my change of
> diet. *Doctors mentioned taking Saw Palmetto, but nothing about
> drinking green tea.
>
> I looked up newsgroups talking about cancer diets and read about
> Chinese green tea. *A nurse who noted my intake of vitamins and
> supplements commented that, yes green tea is drunk in China, and
> Chinese have a low rate of bladder cancer, but they also have a higher
> rate of stomach cancer. *Doctor advised me to avoid tea with caffeine,
> drink herbal instead.
>
> Long story short, I drink daily a couple large mugs of Chinese green
> tea, removing 80% of the caffeine with a 30 second blanch. *To do
> this, I heat to steaming filtered water in a pan, blanch the tea, pour
> out the water, and pour in some pure distilled water I have heated to
> only about 140 degree f, steeping the leaves at least twice more. *So
> far, I haven't invested in a tea pot or tried the caffeine-free tea
> bags; but I may.
>
> Mostly, I rely on local Asian stores for my supply, but to get Dragon
> Well I've had to go on-line and pay the freight for 1lb bulk. *After
> looking over the 25K-some posts archived at this NG, I deduce that the
> following retailers are a good bet: 1) Upton, 2) Culinary Teas, 3)
> SpecialTeas.
>
> Regards, bookburn
>
> I *

Please check the archives of this group 30 second blanche - it is
truly debatable.
Shen

stomach cancer in japan was due to high content of sodium & nitrates
(they used them alot for conservation and foods), and also maybe to
infection with H.Pylori.
As Japan started to combat this situation, they ended up detecting in
situ cancer -at a very early stage, and allowed them to treat this,
and so 'lowered' their rates.

Smoking + Alcohol (especially combined) are a very potent and
efficient method of getting esophageal cancer.

nicotine.../ smoking --> risk for other types as well, including
bladder cancer, pancreas.

caffeine i've heard/read conflicting on pancreatic cancer.

fats --> colon cancer, and others.

high temperatures --> esophageal cancer risk.

dont know what kind of foods one eats to get ionizing radiation!!!
inside the body .........

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 08:48:10 -0800 (PST), Shen >
wrote:

>On Jan 7, 10:00*am, wrote:
>> I like the idea of tea because of the philosophy associated with it;
>> for me, that would be Taoism; but am into green tea because of a
>> cancer scare I had in '02. *Had the bladder operation removing the
>> cancer and have been clear since, perhaps because of my change of
>> diet. *Doctors mentioned taking Saw Palmetto, but nothing about
>> drinking green tea.
>>
>> I looked up newsgroups talking about cancer diets and read about
>> Chinese green tea. *A nurse who noted my intake of vitamins and
>> supplements commented that, yes green tea is drunk in China, and
>> Chinese have a low rate of bladder cancer, but they also have a higher
>> rate of stomach cancer. *Doctor advised me to avoid tea with caffeine,
>> drink herbal instead.
>>
>> Long story short, I drink daily a couple large mugs of Chinese green
>> tea, removing 80% of the caffeine with a 30 second blanch. *To do
>> this, I heat to steaming filtered water in a pan, blanch the tea, pour
>> out the water, and pour in some pure distilled water I have heated to
>> only about 140 degree f, steeping the leaves at least twice more. *So
>> far, I haven't invested in a tea pot or tried the caffeine-free tea
>> bags; but I may.
>>
>> Mostly, I rely on local Asian stores for my supply, but to get Dragon
>> Well I've had to go on-line and pay the freight for 1lb bulk. *After
>> looking over the 25K-some posts archived at this NG, I deduce that the
>> following retailers are a good bet: 1) Upton, 2) Culinary Teas, 3)
>> SpecialTeas.
>>
>> Regards, bookburn
>>
>> I *
>
>Please check the archives of this group 30 second blanche - it is
>truly debatable.
>Shen

I spent about two hours looking over some of the threads and did see
others mentioning the same equation for the 30 blanche. I know you
can get organic, decaffeinated green tea, if you justify the expense.
For me, doing the blanche is a good idea because of the pesticides and
other contaminants used by processors. But I'm keeping an open mind.
bb

[snip]
>Stomach cancer is high in many Asian countries. Japan has a very, very
>high rate. In my opinion due to a sky high consumption of sodium (and
>possibly, high consumptions of raw fish and the heavy metals therein).
>I would think nicotine, ethanol and all that salt would dis-ease
>anything in Japan with or without tea.

I read years ago that the high stomach cancer rate in Japan was linked to
their use of talc for polishing rice; apparently talc affects the body much
like asbestos.

Has this been disproven?

Dean

writes:

> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 08:48:10 -0800 (PST), Shen >
> wrote:
> [...]
> I spent about two hours looking over some of the threads and did see
> others mentioning the same equation for the 30 blanche.

Try looking he

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...4edbbcaad2d97f

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On 09 Jan 2008 10:36:43 -0500, Lewis Perin > wrote:

writes:
>
>> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 08:48:10 -0800 (PST), Shen >
>> wrote:
>> [...]
>> I spent about two hours looking over some of the threads and did see
>> others mentioning the same equation for the 30 blanche.
>
>Try looking he
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...4edbbcaad2d97f
>
>/Lew
>---
>Lew Perin /
>http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

I see that 30 seconds for 80% is a lot different than " 5 minutes
(69%), 10 minutes (92%) and 15 minutes (100%)," called a pre-soak.
However, my search of the Internet just now didn't turn up a denial
that the often referenced 30 second blanche is effective, and most of
the retailers seem to refer to it. I'm wondering if the 80% figure
comes from comparing tea and coffee, since post-blanched tea might
reduce caffeine by 80% of what's in coffee.

It does seem that the caffeine in tea is not considered a problem by
health people and may contribute to fat loss and cancer defense.

Actually, I'm finding that I like the at-home blanche not only for
decaffeination, but also as a rinse of farming pesticides and such. I
haven't tried organic tea yet. But I seem to like the taste of
blanched tea better than unblanched. It does get rid of a pungent
grass-smelling result, at least that's my experience with lower-priced
teas, and I do use distilled water that lets flavor come through. bb

writes:

> On 09 Jan 2008 10:36:43 -0500, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> writes:
> >
> >> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 08:48:10 -0800 (PST), Shen >
> >> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> I spent about two hours looking over some of the threads and did see
> >> others mentioning the same equation for the 30 blanche.
> >
> >Try looking he
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f...4edbbcaad2d97f
>
> I see that 30 seconds for 80% is a lot different than " 5 minutes
> (69%), 10 minutes (92%) and 15 minutes (100%)," called a pre-soak.
> However, my search of the Internet just now didn't turn up a denial
> that the often referenced 30 second blanche is effective, and most of
> the retailers seem to refer to it.

You can find lots of misinformation on the Net. And retailers have an
interest in reassuring caffeine-shy customers.

> I'm wondering if the 80% figure comes from comparing tea and coffee,
> since post-blanched tea might reduce caffeine by 80% of what's in
> coffee.

I don't understand how you could read it that way. Besides, the
leaves you use to make a cup of tea, on average, start out with less
than 80% of the caffeine in a cup of coffee.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

"DPM" > wrote in
:

> [snip]
>>Stomach cancer is high in many Asian countries. Japan has a very, very
>>high rate. In my opinion due to a sky high consumption of sodium (and
>>possibly, high consumptions of raw fish and the heavy metals therein).
>>I would think nicotine, ethanol and all that salt would dis-ease
>>anything in Japan with or without tea.
>
> I read years ago that the high stomach cancer rate in Japan was linked
> to their use of talc for polishing rice; apparently talc affects the
> body much like asbestos.
>
> Has this been disproven?

Now I thought that in China, stir-fried food was the culprit in the high
rate of stomach cancer. BTW, I don't think any method of cooking
affects the heavy metals that fish pick up from the polluted oceans,
does it? It's just something that all sea-food eaters (inculding most
fish) have to suffer...

Ozzy

Matti Lamprhey > wrote:
>"DPM" > wrote...
>> [snip]
>>> There are, as Winston Churchill said, three types of lies: lies,
>>> damned lies, and statistics;
>>
>> Actually, I believe this quote was originally attributed to Benjamin
>> Disraeli.
>
>Fuller story:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_d...and_statistics
>
>"Eventually all bon mots will be attributed to Winston Churchill, Mark
>Twain or Dorothy Parker"
>- George Bernard Shaw.

"If, perhaps, I ever am
Compelled to speak an epigram
I never seek to take the credit
We all assume that Oscar said it."
-- Dorothy Parker (really)
(referring to Oscar Wilde)

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."