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Tea Sunrise 16-09-2007 08:32 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.

Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?

Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.


toci 16-09-2007 08:54 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 2:32 am, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
> Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
> you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
> as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
> be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.
>
> Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?
>
> Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.


Since there're a lot of organic teas to try, I'm switching to organic
tea for the time being for a lot of my teas. You can get organic
Assams, Nilgiris, Ceylons, and whites. Oolongs are more difficult.
Toci


Mydnight 16-09-2007 12:21 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
> Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?
>
> Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.



Drink at your own risk. Organic tea from China does not exist.


Jazzy[_2_] 16-09-2007 01:50 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
i try to drink organic tea but i think even non organic teas are
generally quite safe


Dominic T. 16-09-2007 02:28 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 3:32 am, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
> Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
> you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
> as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
> be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.
>
> Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?
>
> Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.


There is no such thing really as organic tea (my belief in any so-
called organic food is minimal at best anyhow though) Mainly for the
fact that no one can control the ground/soil contents or the rain,
atmosphere, runoff, etc. regardless of what they do. It is a fact of
life today. This whole "organic" business is just that, a business.

I have always said from day 1 that I fully believe any perceived
health benefits in tea are nullified by environmental/handling/
processing issues. I just hope the balance is in favor of the health
side and less on the dark side. But it is always just that, a hope.

I have seen "organic" okra test so high for uranium it was off the
charts. I've seen artesian wells test high for lead, cyanide, and a
host of other nasty things... the bottom line is that with tea it is a
sponge. It soaks up and concentrates, especially into new growth which
are the prized buds and leaves, and that is just how it is. EGCG and
all the rest of the health benefit B.S. is nothing but marketing and
hype. Drink tea because you want to, and you enjoy it, and also
remember to take a break from the stuff every now and then for some
water or other drink to keep things in some sort of balance. I know I
can put away 10-14 cups a day easily, I also know I don't do 10-14
cups of anything else, even water... so I know I'm way out of any sort
of balance there and if there happens to be toxins/chemicals in some
of the tea I'm drinking I'm getting nice steady, prolonged doses which
is just about the worst possible way to do it. I understand it, I
accept it, and I move on with life.

Spending extra for some silly stamp of approval is just that, silly.
If you want "organic" then patronize your local small farms and
growers for as much as possible, it probably won't help one bit in the
end but at least you kept a hard-working family alive instead of some
corporate mill. Speaking of which, my tea bush is growing like crazy
now that it is a bit older... at this rate I'll have to charge about
$10,000/oz. but it is the most "organic" tea ever grown and has never
been subject to anything since it has been in my greenhouse from birth
and hand cared for with no contact with the environment except the
sunlight that comes in and the air that circulates through. I'll be
taking orders for about year 2010, so get them in early... *crickets
chirping*

- Dominic
http://teasphere.wordpress.com


toci 16-09-2007 06:54 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 6:21 am, Mydnight > wrote:
> > Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> > know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?

>
> > Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.

>
> Drink at your own risk. Organic tea from China does not exist.


Upton has a bunch of Chineses organic teas. What is the
"miscommunication?" Toci


Shen[_2_] 16-09-2007 11:28 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 10:54 am, toci > wrote:
> On Sep 16, 6:21 am, Mydnight > wrote:
>
> > > Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> > > know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?

>
> > > Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.

>
> > Drink at your own risk. Organic tea from China does not exist.

>
> Upton has a bunch of Chineses organic teas. What is the
> "miscommunication?" Toci


I think the "miscommunication" can be the standards by which "organic"
is determined. There is a "world" standard, a US standard" and here in
California, very rigid standards.
The criteria have to do with how long the soil has been untainted, the
seeds or actual growing product untainted, the packaging untainted
etc.
And then, there is the inevitable question of actually adhering to
those criteria. Here in California, we have inspections.
Who knows what truly goes on in Chinese "inspections".
Mydnight, do you know exactly what are the criteria for organic
growing in China and if there are qualified inspectors who actually
inspect?
In my mind, you're probably bound to get a hellofalot more poisons in
an FDA inspected American hot dog than you would in a cup of Chinese
tea.
I guess it's all relative, eh?
Shen



SN 17-09-2007 01:12 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 6:32 pm, Refolo > wrote:

> Not, if you grow something organic, you do not put more pesticides in
> the environment.
>
> So, the more organic the best for all.



pesticides are organic and biodegradable



Dominic T. 17-09-2007 01:40 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 6:32 pm, Refolo > wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:28:04 -0000, "Dominic T."
>
> > wrote:
> >atmosphere, runoff, etc. regardless of what they do. It is a fact of
> >life today. This whole "organic" business is just that, a business.

>
> Not, if you grow something organic, you do not put more pesticides in
> the environment.
>
> So, the more organic the best for all.


I understand this, and I'm also not going to come down on anyone who
want to eat only "organic" products... fine by me. But I will say that
it matters not one bit whether *you* use pesticides, if the crop is
planted in the ground, in the open it will be almost indistinguishable
from a "non" organic product when analyzed. No one can control
groundwater, rain, runoff, air quality, etc. as if they were in a
bubble... unless they are in a bubble. I have a lot of family and
friends in the agriculture business and even the ones who grow organic
produce will not try to sugar-coat the reality of the situation. It is
what it is, and as they will even gladly admit, the "organic" labeled
produce sells and sells for a large markup and in many cases it is
absolutely no different than how they have been growing those same
tomatoes, corn, cucumbers in years past. They love this new marketing
and hype, they don't pay a cent to advertise it and they reap all of
the benefits.

To think anything is going to grow in China and not be tainted in some
way or another though is fooling themselves, same goes for right here
in the good ole US of A, no difference. If you have a local family
farm or co-op, like I said, go for it. It's better than a Whole Foods
market or Wal-Mart and you are directly helping local people in your
community, if that "green" product had to take a half way around the
world journey to get to you, you've already offset any carbon/CO2/etc.
that was saved in the production... but you saved there being double
the amount... so I guess that's a plus. Again, just my views, but
having some familiarity with it all, I can safely say that it is a
business and it is a fad and there will always be folks willing to
fill a niche.

- Dominic


[email protected] 17-09-2007 02:34 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 3:32 am, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
> Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
> you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
> as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
> be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.
>
> Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?
>
> Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.


I completely agree with you. I recently read a newspaper article
about a woman who became ill due to drinking green tea which was
contaminated with DDT (she drink the same tea for a couple of years -
a cheap Chinese green tea). While I agree that "going organic" is no
guarantee of avoiding toxins, I do think that going organic can help
to reduce the chance of your tea being contaminated. I recently asked
Upton Tea about how they ensure that their teas are organic - they
told me that they do test most of the organic teas from time to time
to make sure everything is ok. I also read that in 2000 the EU
introduced new standards for tea. The number of restricted chemicals
jumped from 7 to 134. From what I understand, these standards actually
require testing of the end product as opposed to merely making sure no
pesticides are used, etc. According to this China Daily article the
result of the new EU regulations was that in 2001 tea exports from
China to the EU dropped by 37%. (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/
doc/2004-04/13/content_322923.htm) (Sorry, not trying to pick on
Chinese teas.) As a result I have tried ordering some teas from the
EU. Specifically I ordered some teas from Jing Tea in the UK. (http://
jingtea.com/). The only problem is expense.

Another tea shop that actually tests every tea they sell is a German
tea company (Tea Gschwender) which has a shop in Chicago that you can
order from. I just tried something from there as well. They seem to
be slow in stocking new Chinese greens and oolongs. (http://
www.teagschwendner.com/)

I have to admit I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the US and
other organic certifications really mean. I do find the concept of
actually testing the tea easier to understand!

Good luck in you search for toxin-free tea. I'm doing the same.


Gtips 17-09-2007 02:51 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 3:32 am, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
> Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
> you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
> as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
> be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.
>
> Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?
>
> Any input is highly apprec


I don't think there's a need to switch from non-organic to organic tea
(Camellia Sinensis). Pollution in some of the Tea producing countries
has become rampant due to recent economic booms while enviromental
laws,unfortunately, have literally become un-enforceable. Organic teas
are sold at a premium price but do not offer the "purity" you
seek,unless you grow it yourself. Dominics response I believe covers
this subject very clearly .Good Luck


niisonge 17-09-2007 03:34 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
> Organic teas are sold at a premium price but do not offer the "purity" you
> seek,unless you grow it yourself.


That's quite correct. There are organic teas grown and produced in
China. But don't fool yourself. Many places in China are heavily
polluted. And pollution knows no borders. So, say your farm is
organic, there is nothing you can do to prevent chemicals from rain
leaching and accumulating in the soil; or chemicals in dust and
residues blown in by the wind. Even if you grew tea yourself in China,
there is nothing you can do to ensure it's 100% pure. There's only so
much a person can do. In China, "clean and pure" just means,
relatively speaking, as clean and pure as can be, giving the
environmental circumstances of the country. So, farmers try to grow
good tea as far as possible away from human settlement - up in some
tea mountains somewhere. Then, the cheap tea they grow in gardens
around their houses - and that stuff is polluted and contaminated like
heck.




Mydnight 17-09-2007 03:51 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
> Who knows what truly goes on in Chinese "inspections".
> Mydnight, do you know exactly what are the criteria for organic
> growing in China and if there are qualified inspectors who actually
> inspect?
> In my mind, you're probably bound to get a hellofalot more poisons in
> an FDA inspected American hot dog than you would in a cup of Chinese


In China, there are no serious inspections to see such a thing done
and any certification can be bought with the right amount of money or
copied and printed. I had lunch with someone from the 'something
something something something department of agriculture something
something position in Guangdong' (the Chinese love their titles more
than Westerners), and he avoided all conversation on this topic.

The closest thing to organic I've seen so far has been my good
friend's relatives farm where they hand pick any insects out of their
crops and use aphids. They have some excellently fresh veggies.

Tea. Drink at your own risk.


Melinda 17-09-2007 10:11 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Sep 16, 3:32 am, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
>> Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
>> you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
>> as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
>> be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.
>>
>> Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
>> know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?
>>
>> Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.

>
> I completely agree with you. I recently read a newspaper article
> about a woman who became ill due to drinking green tea which was
> contaminated with DDT (she drink the same tea for a couple of years -
> a cheap Chinese green tea). While I agree that "going organic" is no
> guarantee of avoiding toxins, I do think that going organic can help
> to reduce the chance of your tea being contaminated. I recently asked
> Upton Tea about how they ensure that their teas are organic - they
> told me that they do test most of the organic teas from time to time
> to make sure everything is ok. I also read that in 2000 the EU
> introduced new standards for tea. The number of restricted chemicals
> jumped from 7 to 134. From what I understand, these standards actually
> require testing of the end product as opposed to merely making sure no
> pesticides are used, etc. According to this China Daily article the
> result of the new EU regulations was that in 2001 tea exports from
> China to the EU dropped by 37%. (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/
> doc/2004-04/13/content_322923.htm) (Sorry, not trying to pick on
> Chinese teas.) As a result I have tried ordering some teas from the
> EU. Specifically I ordered some teas from Jing Tea in the UK. (http://
> jingtea.com/). The only problem is expense.
>
> Another tea shop that actually tests every tea they sell is a German
> tea company (Tea Gschwender) which has a shop in Chicago that you can
> order from. I just tried something from there as well. They seem to
> be slow in stocking new Chinese greens and oolongs. (http://
> www.teagschwendner.com/)
>
> I have to admit I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the US and
> other organic certifications really mean. I do find the concept of
> actually testing the tea easier to understand!
>
> Good luck in you search for toxin-free tea. I'm doing the same.
>



This brings up something I've been meaning to ask the group...if I wanted to
take a sample of tea from my cupboard and get it analyzed for pesticides
etc., how would I go aobut doing that? I imagine a lab, but what kind, how
would I find one, and would they do such a thing for a member of the general
public?

Melinda



Ankit Lochan 17-09-2007 03:05 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 12:32 pm, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
> Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
> you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
> as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
> be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.
>
> Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?
>
> Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.


Organic Certificates are being sold by these certifying agencies at
diffrent price tags like - if you pay a very high fees - you are
organic within 6 months, if the amount paid is lower - 15 months, if
still lower than 24 months..... the story goes on.. bottomline is if
you have cash you can become organic real quick otherwise dont even
think or imagine getting a certificate... it just wont happen - no
matter how good you are...

Organic Organic and Organic has just turned out to be a marketing
gimmick. a small example - a big group in india buys several gardens
as they switch from one trade to another and in a small time span all
their gardens are certified organic ..... hey a land and a bush that
were on chemicals for over 100 years suddenly becomes organic - 100%
in 6 months or a year - is that possible? the answer friends lies with
us.

I think that we should study the source that we buy from - by that i
mean the manufacturing source and whenever we buy teas from our US
wholeseller or retailer we should ask him to provide us with a
pysiochemical certificate for the teas he is carrying. this
certificate is provided by the lab, they provide details like the
moisture content, the ash content, blah blah and the main part is that
they provide the pesticide analysis (dicofol, ethion, quinolphos,
fenzaquin, glyphospate, melathion, diazinon, fenamiphos, propargite)
these are the common chemicals that the lab tests.. this certificate
only costs 150 USD to 200 USD per tea. this will help the person
market his teas better and he will also be able to make a loyal
clientale for himself...

if the american tea association or any body can make a law that any
person selling tea to US wholesellers, retailers or consumers has to
provide this certificate for the tea he sells - i think our job in
deciding which tea to drink will be easier, it will also make the
manufacturers more conscious.

we have to make things more realistic and stop companies from taking
advantage of this word organic, they are fooling consumers and
charging a very high price for something that is actually not worth
it.

if anyne wants to see a copy of the physiochemical certificate -
please feel free to e-mail me and ask for one.






Mydnight 17-09-2007 06:27 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 17, 10:05 pm, Ankit Lochan > wrote:
> On Sep 16, 12:32 pm, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
>
> > Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
> > you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
> > as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
> > be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.

>
> > Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> > know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?

>
> > Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.

>
> Organic Certificates are being sold by these certifying agencies at
> diffrent price tags like - if you pay a very high fees - you are
> organic within 6 months, if the amount paid is lower - 15 months, if
> still lower than 24 months..... the story goes on.. bottomline is if
> you have cash you can become organic real quick otherwise dont even
> think or imagine getting a certificate... it just wont happen - no
> matter how good you are...


Yep. Just like ISO certs for factories here in China. You pay off
the auditors, you get your ISO9000 or whatever you are going for.


juliantai[_3_] 17-09-2007 10:01 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
Hmm.. what a fascinating discussion you have here.

To me, it really boils down to 2 things: how young is the tea shoots?
Does your tea taste good?

As Dogma pointed out, tea plants accumulate minerals. When drinking
white tea and green tea, the best guarantee is to drink from the
youngest tea shoots - the first 10 days or so in Spring. They usually
make the highest grade. They also contain the least environmental
contaminants.

The best tea garden tends to use little pesticides. They just don't
need it. These tend to be tea gardens situated at high altitude at
sloping lands. The entire region tends to be prosperous tea growers
(in China consisted of small tea gardens), situated away from
factories and road traffics.

Their teas tend to be wholesaled at very high prices and not so
commonly available in the West. I came across a few tea gardens and
they hardly bother about organic labelling - Chinese market doesn't
care that much when it comes to these very sought-after teas.

Organic labelling per se doesn't mean much.

Use of chemicals is not a viable long term strategy for the best tea
gardens. If your tea tastes good, chances are it comes from a fertile
tea garden with the right conditions that make overuse of chemicals
unlikely.

Julian


Mydnight 18-09-2007 08:48 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 18, 5:01 am, juliantai > wrote:
> Hmm.. what a fascinating discussion you have here.
>
> To me, it really boils down to 2 things: how young is the tea shoots?
> Does your tea taste good?


I had a lot of Tie Guan Yin that tasted really good. Unfortunately,
most of those flavors are unnatural additives. The "tea shoot" thing
is mostly about green tea. What about Wulong?

> The best tea garden tends to use little pesticides. They just don't
> need it. These tend to be tea gardens situated at high altitude at
> sloping lands. The entire region tends to be prosperous tea growers
> (in China consisted of small tea gardens), situated away from
> factories and road traffics.


This is the newest marketing idea in the tea trade that I fell for
myself. "It's so high on the mountain, it doesn't need chemicals" or
"the farmers are so poor, that they cannot afford pesticides" or "the
most famous tea producing areas are more concerned about the tea being
clean". It's mostly balderdash.

In China quantity = money, not quality.

> Their teas tend to be wholesaled at very high prices and not so
> commonly available in the West. I came across a few tea gardens and
> they hardly bother about organic labelling - Chinese market doesn't
> care that much when it comes to these very sought-after teas.


These teas are not only "unavailable" in the West; a great percentage
of Chinese never even SEE these teas. They are carted away for the
royality and the uber-rich. The best green teas do come from the
small countryside places. Most famous teas, like Longjing, are
guaranteed to be dirty. See above about quality vs. quantity.

> Use of chemicals is not a viable long term strategy for the best tea
> gardens. If your tea tastes good, chances are it comes from a fertile
> tea garden with the right conditions that make overuse of chemicals
> unlikely.


Most Chinese can't see in the long term and it is part of their
culture. What is acquired today can be taken away tomorrow by the CCP
or anyone else with a little power.

If your tea tastes good, it is likely it has a bunch of flavoring
added. Nai Xiang? Guo (fruit) Xiang? Tell me which plant produces
such flavors naturally.


Scott Dorsey 18-09-2007 02:50 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
In article . com>,
Tea Sunrise > wrote:
>Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
>you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
>as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
>be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.


Chinese farming methods are all over the place, and some of them are
pretty nasty, yes.

>Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
>know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?


If you drink tea from mainland China, it does not matter whether there
is an organic label on it or not; you cannot really have any idea about
pesticide contamination without actual measurement.

If this worries you, drink tea from Taiwan instead.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey 18-09-2007 02:55 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
Mydnight > wrote:
>
>In China, there are no serious inspections to see such a thing done
>and any certification can be bought with the right amount of money or
>copied and printed. I had lunch with someone from the 'something
>something something something department of agriculture something
>something position in Guangdong' (the Chinese love their titles more
>than Westerners), and he avoided all conversation on this topic.


I had a Chinese manufacturer explain to me that their reference standards
were calibrated because they had someone come around every six months and
put stickers on them.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey 18-09-2007 02:58 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
Melinda > wrote:
>
>This brings up something I've been meaning to ask the group...if I wanted to
>take a sample of tea from my cupboard and get it analyzed for pesticides
>etc., how would I go aobut doing that? I imagine a lab, but what kind, how
>would I find one, and would they do such a thing for a member of the general
>public?


Here in Virginia, the agricultural extension service has access to a lab
at Virginia Tech that can do pesticide assays for very low prices.

Your extension service may have something similar.

Some commercial labs include http://www.wcaslab.com and
http://www.emalab.com. I have not used either, though.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

niisonge 18-09-2007 03:37 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
> If this worries you, drink tea from Taiwan instead.

Drink tea from Taiwan instead? It's got to be just as polluted as the
stuff from the Mainland. You can see Taiwan from Xiamen. It's just a
stone's throw away. Same in Fuzhou. Remember, pollution knows no
boundaries. What and drift in on the wind, can go anywhere. Just
because it's from Taiwan doesn't necessarily mean it will be better.


Mydnight 18-09-2007 04:00 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
> Drink tea from Taiwan instead? It's got to be just as polluted as the
> stuff from the Mainland. You can see Taiwan from Xiamen. It's just a
> stone's throw away. Same in Fuzhou. Remember, pollution knows no
> boundaries. What and drift in on the wind, can go anywhere. Just
> because it's from Taiwan doesn't necessarily mean it will be better.


Xiamen is a festering cesspool under a tourist-friendly guise; Fuzhou
is just as filthy. Taiwan has had some friendly dealings with the US
and Western countries for a while and for the most part understands
the concept of quality over quantity. Mainland China, still for the
most part suffering from the Imperial mindset of mine-mine-mine-now-
now-now-before-its-taken-away-from-me, only cares for profit.

I would be willing to bet all the money in my savings account, which
ain't much, folks, that any random sample of tea from Taizhong (where
most wulong is produced in Taiwan), a relatively mountainous, clean
place, would have a better sanitary rating than ANY TEA, INCLUDING THE
HIGHEST GRADE, from Fujian AnXi (where Tieguan, the most famous tea
from Fujian) is produced. I'd also be willing to bet that the Rock
teas from WuYi Mountain would have the same rating of pollution as in
Anxi.


[email protected] 18-09-2007 05:06 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 18, 9:58 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Melinda > wrote:
>
> >This brings up something I've been meaning to ask the group...if I wanted to
> >take a sample of tea from my cupboard and get it analyzed for pesticides
> >etc., how would I go aobut doing that? I imagine a lab, but what kind, how
> >would I find one, and would they do such a thing for a member of the general
> >public?

>
> Here in Virginia, the agricultural extension service has access to a lab
> at Virginia Tech that can do pesticide assays for very low prices.
>
> Your extension service may have something similar.
>
> Some commercial labs includehttp://www.wcaslab.comandhttp://www.emalab.com. I have not used either, though.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Do you have the contact info for having a pesticide assay done at
Virgina Tech? I couldn't find this service on their website.
Thanks.


Alex[_3_] 18-09-2007 05:08 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 18, 10:37 am, niisonge > wrote:
> > If this worries you, drink tea from Taiwan instead.

>
> Drink tea from Taiwan instead? It's got to be just as polluted as the
> stuff from the Mainland. You can see Taiwan from Xiamen. It's just a
> stone's throw away. Same in Fuzhou. Remember, pollution knows no
> boundaries. What and drift in on the wind, can go anywhere. Just
> because it's from Taiwan doesn't necessarily mean it will be better.


You can see Taiwan from Xiamen? Really? I've spent some time in
Xiamen, and I could see Jinmen, which is administered by Taiwan and
produces really good cutlery but no tea. You'd have to have really
good eyes to see Taiwan, because it's about 130 miles away. The
closest point to Taiwan, which I believe is the Gaoshan area near
Fuzhou, is about 80 miles. I know this because once upon a time I had
a crazy English friend who was planning to fly his ultralight to the
Mainland. He never did. Anyway.

In any case, I think we are talking about tea that has had pesticides
directly applied to them, and while I have not looked, I don't think
that would be hard in Taiwan. I guess I am just about 100% with
Mydnight on this point. For one thing, if something says "certified"
in Taiwan, it is much more likely to be true, and for another, I have
had teas from Taiwan (OB and Stephane Erler's guifei cha, for
instance) that were clearly chewed by insects, and I think that means
no pesticides. It is a very polluted country, sure, but in my mind
there is no question that its tea fields, many of them located very
far from any other human habitation, are less polluted than oolong
fields in Fujian.

Another point on which my mind brokes no questioning (Mydnight, this
is for you) is the natural source of the naixiang taste. The jinxuan
varietal of oolong produces this taste naturally. It is attested in
the scientific literature (of which I have read quotes in Chi
Zongxian's books) and the taste lasts through many steeps, which to me
means it is highly unlikely that it comes from something sprinkled or
sprayed on the leaves.

Alex


Scott Dorsey 18-09-2007 06:18 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
niisonge > wrote:
>> If this worries you, drink tea from Taiwan instead.

>
>Drink tea from Taiwan instead? It's got to be just as polluted as the
>stuff from the Mainland. You can see Taiwan from Xiamen. It's just a
>stone's throw away. Same in Fuzhou. Remember, pollution knows no
>boundaries. What and drift in on the wind, can go anywhere. Just
>because it's from Taiwan doesn't necessarily mean it will be better.


Oh, the pollution issues are still there. But the farming practices are
better-regulated at least.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey 18-09-2007 06:23 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
> wrote:
>
>Do you have the contact info for having a pesticide assay done at
>Virgina Tech? I couldn't find this service on their website.
>Thanks.


I just go to the local county extension service agent and hand him
the samples.

But you might be able to do it directly, by talking to these guys:
http://www.biochem.vt.edu/pestlab/
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

SN 18-09-2007 07:59 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
heres a reply from a commercial testing lab:

<---
You are looking at about

$500 for a pesticide screen,
$400 for a metals screen, and
$500 for an organics screen.
Depending on what vitamins you are looking for the cost is from $100
on up for each individual one.
-->

:( well... that sure ruins my plans



Shen[_2_] 18-09-2007 09:54 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 17, 2:11 am, "Melinda" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Sep 16, 3:32 am, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
> >> Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
> >> you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
> >> as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
> >> be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.

>
> >> Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
> >> know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?

>
> >> Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.

>
> > I completely agree with you. I recently read a newspaper article
> > about a woman who became ill due to drinking green tea which was
> > contaminated with DDT (she drink the same tea for a couple of years -
> > a cheap Chinese green tea). While I agree that "going organic" is no
> > guarantee of avoiding toxins, I do think that going organic can help
> > to reduce the chance of your tea being contaminated. I recently asked
> > Upton Tea about how they ensure that their teas are organic - they
> > told me that they do test most of the organic teas from time to time
> > to make sure everything is ok. I also read that in 2000 the EU
> > introduced new standards for tea. The number of restricted chemicals
> > jumped from 7 to 134. From what I understand, these standards actually
> > require testing of the end product as opposed to merely making sure no
> > pesticides are used, etc. According to this China Daily article the
> > result of the new EU regulations was that in 2001 tea exports from
> > China to the EU dropped by 37%. (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/
> > doc/2004-04/13/content_322923.htm) (Sorry, not trying to pick on
> > Chinese teas.) As a result I have tried ordering some teas from the
> > EU. Specifically I ordered some teas from Jing Tea in the UK. (http://
> > jingtea.com/). The only problem is expense.

>
> > Another tea shop that actually tests every tea they sell is a German
> > tea company (Tea Gschwender) which has a shop in Chicago that you can
> > order from. I just tried something from there as well. They seem to
> > be slow in stocking new Chinese greens and oolongs. (http://
> >www.teagschwendner.com/)

>
> > I have to admit I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the US and
> > other organic certifications really mean. I do find the concept of
> > actually testing the tea easier to understand!

>
> > Good luck in you search for toxin-free tea. I'm doing the same.

>
> This brings up something I've been meaning to ask the group...if I wanted to
> take a sample of tea from my cupboard and get it analyzed for pesticides
> etc., how would I go aobut doing that? I imagine a lab, but what kind, how
> would I find one, and would they do such a thing for a member of the general
> public?
>
> Melinda


University of California, Davis - well-known for their agricultural
additive studies.
Not expensive, at all.
Shen


Shen[_2_] 18-09-2007 09:56 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 16, 5:12 pm, SN > wrote:
> On Sep 16, 6:32 pm, Refolo > wrote:
>
> > Not, if you grow something organic, you do not put more pesticides in
> > the environment.

>
> > So, the more organic the best for all.

>
> pesticides are organic and biodegradable


Ridiculous assumption - some pesticides are organic, some not. Some
biodegradable, some not.
Shen


Will Yardley 18-09-2007 11:02 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On 2007-09-16, Dominic T. > wrote:
>
> There is no such thing really as organic tea (my belief in any so-
> called organic food is minimal at best anyhow though) Mainly for the
> fact that no one can control the ground/soil contents or the rain,
> atmosphere, runoff, etc. regardless of what they do. It is a fact of
> life today. This whole "organic" business is just that, a business.


Well the whole word is stupid, since anything containing carbon is
technically "organic". Even "organically grown", which is a little more
precise, doesn't really mean anything.

However, when people are talking about certified organic or organically
grown (or transitional) produce, they are talking about stuff grown
without synthetic pesticides. Most certifications require that a farm
not use chemicals for a certain amount of time (during which they are
transitional, but not 'organic'). So while they can't control the soil
contents, they can control the amount of pesticide residue likely to be
in that soil. The rain... of course that's impossible to control, and
will vary by region and amount of rainfall.

Is organic produce at least partially about marketing? Absolutely. Does
it guarantee that produce will be absolutely free of pesticide residue?
Absolutely not. Is everything "natural" (whatever that means) safe and
everything "synthetic" or "natural" bad? Of course not.

But is that a reason not to try and reduce the presence of chemicals
which have been proven to be harmful from the stuff we put in our
bodies?

What would be really great (to me) would be if someone on this group is
able to test stuff (for harmful chemicals and pesticide residue) for
free or cheap, and is willing to do this for some representative samples
of teas from various regions / merchants / ages / types of farm. I would
be happy to contribute samples of tea towards this project.

I also noticed Warren's post he
http://chadao.blogspot.com/2007/09/l...nd-purity.html
which is kind of an outgrowth of this thread, as well as this post:
http://chadao.blogspot.com/2007/08/a...-polluted.html

It would be interesting to do some tests and see if rinsing tea leaves
before brewing them actually results in a significant decrease in
pesticide residue etc..

w


Nigel 19-09-2007 08:42 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
NO COMMENT

http://www.tiny.cc/HThSE

Nigel at Teacraft




Shen[_2_] 19-09-2007 08:53 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 19, 12:42 am, Nigel > wrote:
> NO COMMENT
>
> http://www.tiny.cc/HThSE
>
> Nigel at Teacraft


Excellent link, Nigel. very interesting.
Has there been follow-up to check the efficacy of this kit?
Shen


Melinda 19-09-2007 09:24 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Melinda > wrote:
>>
>>This brings up something I've been meaning to ask the group...if I wanted
>>to
>>take a sample of tea from my cupboard and get it analyzed for pesticides
>>etc., how would I go aobut doing that? I imagine a lab, but what kind, how
>>would I find one, and would they do such a thing for a member of the
>>general
>>public?

>
> Here in Virginia, the agricultural extension service has access to a lab
> at Virginia Tech that can do pesticide assays for very low prices.
>
> Your extension service may have something similar.
>
> Some commercial labs include http://www.wcaslab.com and
> http://www.emalab.com. I have not used either, though.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Excellent, thanks Scott. I never thought about the Extension Service.

Melinda



Melinda 19-09-2007 09:25 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 

"Shen" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 17, 2:11 am, "Melinda" > wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>>
>> oups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Sep 16, 3:32 am, Tea Sunrise > wrote:
>> >> Since a lot of the tea we drink comes from China and Indonesia, are
>> >> you ever worried that the tea leaves were sprayed with pesticides such
>> >> as DDT or other harmful chemicals? I'd hate to think that I could
>> >> be drinking a cup full of toxins or pesticides along with my EGCG.

>>
>> >> Is the correct move to switch to organic teas? Does anyone really
>> >> know if tea bushes are completely safe for consumption?

>>
>> >> Any input is highly appreciated. thanks.

>>
>> > I completely agree with you. I recently read a newspaper article
>> > about a woman who became ill due to drinking green tea which was
>> > contaminated with DDT (she drink the same tea for a couple of years -
>> > a cheap Chinese green tea). While I agree that "going organic" is no
>> > guarantee of avoiding toxins, I do think that going organic can help
>> > to reduce the chance of your tea being contaminated. I recently asked
>> > Upton Tea about how they ensure that their teas are organic - they
>> > told me that they do test most of the organic teas from time to time
>> > to make sure everything is ok. I also read that in 2000 the EU
>> > introduced new standards for tea. The number of restricted chemicals
>> > jumped from 7 to 134. From what I understand, these standards actually
>> > require testing of the end product as opposed to merely making sure no
>> > pesticides are used, etc. According to this China Daily article the
>> > result of the new EU regulations was that in 2001 tea exports from
>> > China to the EU dropped by 37%. (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/
>> > doc/2004-04/13/content_322923.htm) (Sorry, not trying to pick on
>> > Chinese teas.) As a result I have tried ordering some teas from the
>> > EU. Specifically I ordered some teas from Jing Tea in the UK. (http://
>> > jingtea.com/). The only problem is expense.

>>
>> > Another tea shop that actually tests every tea they sell is a German
>> > tea company (Tea Gschwender) which has a shop in Chicago that you can
>> > order from. I just tried something from there as well. They seem to
>> > be slow in stocking new Chinese greens and oolongs. (http://
>> >www.teagschwendner.com/)

>>
>> > I have to admit I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the US and
>> > other organic certifications really mean. I do find the concept of
>> > actually testing the tea easier to understand!

>>
>> > Good luck in you search for toxin-free tea. I'm doing the same.

>>
>> This brings up something I've been meaning to ask the group...if I wanted
>> to
>> take a sample of tea from my cupboard and get it analyzed for pesticides
>> etc., how would I go aobut doing that? I imagine a lab, but what kind,
>> how
>> would I find one, and would they do such a thing for a member of the
>> general
>> public?
>>
>> Melinda

>
> University of California, Davis - well-known for their agricultural
> additive studies.
> Not expensive, at all.
> Shen
>


Thank-you Shen. If it really isn't expensive this would be a really
interesting experiment for us to try (or me).

Melinda



juliantai[_3_] 19-09-2007 09:27 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
Mynight, thanks for the helpful reply.

> I had a lot of Tie Guan Yin that tasted really good. Unfortunately,
> most of those flavors are unnatural additives. The "tea shoot" thing
> is mostly about green tea. What about Wulong?


The quality of Tieguanyin tends to increase with its durability. A top
Tieguanyin Wang can easily last 9 infusions, and still tastes honeyed,
not astringent and retaining a slight orchid fragrance. An experienced
taster (which I would say apply to many people participating in this
group) should have the confidence to tell the real from the fake.

> These teas are not only "unavailable" in the West; a great percentage
> of Chinese never even SEE these teas. They are carted away for the
> royality and the uber-rich. The best green teas do come from the
> small countryside places. Most famous teas, like Longjing, are
> guaranteed to be dirty. See above about quality vs. quantity.


A famous Chinese tea is not just about a Longjing tea or a Taiping
Houkui tea etc. It has specific meaning referring to exactly where it
is produced, and its grade (usually determined by the timing of the
harvest and the quality of leaves)

The 10 famous teas were coined in the 1950s. At that time, THE
Longjing tea refers to the Xihu Longjing tea, which then consisted of
only the Lion peak mountain (the original Xihu) and the surrounding
Mejiawu (later added).

Today, Longjing tea is produced all over China in 20 provinces.

Similarly, the original TPHK tea were produced in the 3 villages
around Hou Gan.

Today it is produced in the entire Yellow mountain area, plus all the
fakes.

As Mynight rightly pointed out, these truly authentic high grades are
seldom available. A top quality famous tea now sells at US$110 (per 50
grams) at Chinese street prices.

These teas wholesaled at $20+. They are seldom available in the West.
99% of tea vendors are not selling these high grades.

Yes, Longjing tea can be dirty. I have specific concerns with those
teas coming from Meijiawu. Not due to pesticides. But because of road
traffic.

But internet retailing is changing this, making authentic high grades
available at better prices.

For example, Sevencup currently sells their Tribute Longjing tea at
$75. We do it for half the price. These teas go directly to the
Chinese White House and get tested for regularly. So there is no
question about their quality. Imagine, Westerners paying less than
Chinese people. Is there a catch? It is the nature of internet
retailing.

I am sure as time goes by people would discover more high quality but
less famous tea to sell at more affordable price, delivering more
value to your money.

> Most Chinese can't see in the long term and it is part of their
> culture. What is acquired today can be taken away tomorrow by the CCP
> or anyone else with a little power.


Organic farming is a long term strategy. Misuse of chemical and
pesticides kill the yield of the tea garden. It poisons the water
sources and harms the worker health. .There is no conflict here. The
best tea gardens have every incentive to keep their tea as clean as
possible. It is in their best interests.

Authentic tea gardens have been farming teas for hundreds of years.
They existed even before China industrialised. They are not poor, they
tend to be prosperous farmers who command high premiums for their
teas. They know that customers come back to them because their teas
taste different from competitions.

I understand all your concerns about pesticides in tea. I agree with
many of your suggestions, especially tea testing and Taiwanese tea.
But I think there are many GREAT teas around, from China/Taiwan/India
etc, tasting good and highly organic. Call me an optimist, I think
there will be even more of them available in the future.

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com


[email protected] 19-09-2007 10:52 AM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On 18 Sep, 17:02, Will Yardley wrote:
> It would be interesting to do some tests and see if rinsing tea leaves
> before brewing them actually results in a significant decrease in
> pesticide residue etc..


There was a study in the UK recently (read about it in a newspaper
about a month or two ago, sorry don't have any more specific info)
that was testing the benefits of washing your fruit to remove
pesticides. They found that washing removes dirt and that is good. But
any chemicals appear to penetrate the skin of the fruit. They found
that washing did not reduce the amount of chemicals, but peeling did.
The conclusion was that most pesticides end up accumulating in the
skin of fruit.

My assumption from this would be that rinsing tea won't get rid of any
pesticides.

Robby


Mydnight 19-09-2007 01:08 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
> The quality of Tieguanyin tends to increase with its durability. A top
> Tieguanyin Wang can easily last 9 infusions, and still tastes honeyed,
> not astringent and retaining a slight orchid fragrance. An experienced
> taster (which I would say apply to many people participating in this
> group) should have the confidence to tell the real from the fake.


This is also marketing. If a tea does or does not yield a huge amount
of brewings, it can have a lot to do with weather conditions or how
they cooked the tea. Most of the TieGuanYin I have drank, and I've
bought some top grade in the past, did hold up for many brewings,
maybe upwards to 10 or 11, but I think it says little about the
pollution levels or the quality of the tea. The crappy red tea I am
drinking from Yixing can brew 15 times without tasting like an old
sock. The general grade TGY has about 3 or 4 brewings in it before
all of the spray-on flavor washes off.

The main thing about this tea that bothers me is what was told to me
by a local of GanDe county in AnXi. He said something like, "Twenty
years ago, the tea tasted nothing like it does today. Most older
locals here won't even drink it."

Wonder why that is...

> A famous Chinese tea is not just about a Longjing tea or a Taiping
> Houkui tea etc. It has specific meaning referring to exactly where it
> is produced, and its grade (usually determined by the timing of the
> harvest and the quality of leaves)


It's grade depends more highly upon weather conditions and the growing
process. They do pick greens early in the spring, and the first pick,
as with all teas, is always the best. Geography is also important in
a tea's quality.

> The 10 famous teas were coined in the 1950s. At that time, THE
> Longjing tea refers to the Xihu Longjing tea, which then consisted of
> only the Lion peak mountain (the original Xihu) and the surrounding
> Mejiawu (later added).


You mean Shi Feng. There are slight differences between Xihu and
ShiFeng.

> Today, Longjing tea is produced all over China in 20 provinces.


Yes, indeed. Most people drink Longjing that comes from Sichuan and
they don't even realize it. Vendors early as 10 years ago began to
investigate other options in buying raw stock leaves for their
factories because of the insane prices that the farmers in Hangzhou
offer. You ever seen a Chinese farmer with a car and a 3-storey
house? Go to XiHu village.

> Similarly, the original TPHK tea were produced in the 3 villages
> around Hou Gan.
>
> Today it is produced in the entire Yellow mountain area, plus all the
> fakes.


I think I drank some of this tea that was produced in Hubei once.


> As Mynight rightly pointed out, these truly authentic high grades are
> seldom available. A top quality famous tea now sells at US$110 (per 50
> grams) at Chinese street prices.


Uh, either you were cheated or you are in a different China than I
am. I paid more than 100 bucks a few times for 500g of the tea that
you mention from trusted, personal friends and sources. Such a high
price for 50g could only be found in TianFu (TenRen) or similar chains
where everything is insanely overpriced anyway.

> But internet retailing is changing this, making authentic high grades
> available at better prices.


To be honest, I have never been impressed by teas that I tried from
the net. I would usually go to hang out with a basic understanding of
tea that paid top dollar for their stuff. I've had teas in
cornershops here that were better...

> For example, Sevencup currently sells their Tribute Longjing tea at
> $75. We do it for half the price. These teas go directly to the
> Chinese White House and get tested for regularly. So there is no
> question about their quality. Imagine, Westerners paying less than
> Chinese people. Is there a catch? It is the nature of internet
> retailing.


Tribute Longjing means what exactly? Westerners paying less than
Chinese people...you must be joking. This only happens here if you
ask someone to go buy the tea for you or if your best friend is in
tea. I hope you can develop better marketing in the future.

> I am sure as time goes by people would discover more high quality but
> less famous tea to sell at more affordable price, delivering more
> value to your money.


In our dreams...

> Organic farming is a long term strategy. Misuse of chemical and
> pesticides kill the yield of the tea garden. It poisons the water
> sources and harms the worker health. .There is no conflict here. The
> best tea gardens have every incentive to keep their tea as clean as
> possible. It is in their best interests.


Misuse of chemical and pesticides increases yield, thus allowing more
tea to be produced. I think most tea gardens have figured out how to
keep a balance by now, don't you?

> I understand all your concerns about pesticides in tea. I agree with
> many of your suggestions, especially tea testing and Taiwanese tea.
> But I think there are many GREAT teas around, from China/Taiwan/India
> etc, tasting good and highly organic. Call me an optimist, I think
> there will be even more of them available in the future.


I repeat what I said befo THERE IS NO ORGANIC TEA IN CHINA.

That's all. I am not a pessimist, only a realist.


Dominic T. 19-09-2007 02:33 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 19, 3:53 am, Shen > wrote:
> On Sep 19, 12:42 am, Nigel > wrote:
>
> > NO COMMENT

>
> >http://www.tiny.cc/HThSE

>
> > Nigel at Teacraft

>
> Excellent link, Nigel. very interesting.
> Has there been follow-up to check the efficacy of this kit?
> Shen


Or even just what exactly it tests for. I hunted around for a short
while and came up empty, I'll have to look into it further later. I
never thought about it, but I may speak with someone at my university
to see if they have the equipment or interest in doing some research.
I will certainly talk to some people at my Alma Mater (Penn State)
since they are a huge agriculture and research school.

I never would have thought about the accessibility to testing
resources if it weren't for this thread.

- Dominic


Ankit Lochan 19-09-2007 05:13 PM

worried about pesticides in tea?
 
On Sep 18, 11:59 pm, SN > wrote:
> heres a reply from a commercial testing lab:
>
> <---
> You are looking at about
>
> $500 for a pesticide screen,
> $400 for a metals screen, and
> $500 for an organics screen.
> Depending on what vitamins you are looking for the cost is from $100
> on up for each individual one.
> -->
>
> :( well... that sure ruins my plans


easier option - send the samples to me - i will have them tested at
1/10th the price, i guess.



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