Any one had any toughest experience in brewing tea?

I would have to say Bi Luo Chun green tea. I tasted the same tea in
the store brew with the seller and it tasted really good, with mild
nutty flavor and lingering sweet undertones. Back at home i tried
brewing it various methods here and there I couldn't get the best out
of it. Sometimes it taste really stale, i tried with more leaves,
shorter brewing time, hotter water, etc but I still couldn't get like
how it should taste at the store. This is one particular incident with
BLC green tea. Other version of BLCs i had bought did not have this
issue.

I heard that preparing gong fu cha is really a skill!
Other kind of tough to brew tea is wu yi rock tea especially some Da
Hong Pao.

Jazzy > writes:

> Any one had any toughest experience in brewing tea?
>
> I would have to say Bi Luo Chun green tea. I tasted the same tea in
> the store brew with the seller and it tasted really good, with mild
> nutty flavor and lingering sweet undertones. Back at home i tried
> brewing it various methods here and there I couldn't get the best
> out of it.

Are you *sure* it's the same tea the shop brewed for you?

> Sometimes it taste really stale, i tried with more leaves, shorter
> brewing time, hotter water, etc but I still couldn't get like how it
> should taste at the store.

Have you tried it with cooler water? With BLC, I often find 140F, or
even cooler, is best.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
recently updated: Huang Shan

On Aug 23, 4:54 pm, Jazzy > wrote:
> Any one had any toughest experience in brewing tea?

Maxing out Darjeelings ist the greatest challenge life has ever thrown
at me though perceptional factors might play a bigger role than I´m
willing to admit.

Karsten

On Aug 23, 11:29 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Jazzy > writes:
> > Any one had any toughest experience in brewing tea?
>
> > I would have to say Bi Luo Chun green tea. I tasted the same tea in
> > the store brew with the seller and it tasted really good, with mild
> > nutty flavor and lingering sweet undertones. Back at home i tried
> > brewing it various methods here and there I couldn't get the best
> > out of it.
>
> Are you *sure* it's the same tea the shop brewed for you?
>
> > Sometimes it taste really stale, i tried with more leaves, shorter
> > brewing time, hotter water, etc but I still couldn't get like how it
> > should taste at the store.
>
> Have you tried it with cooler water? With BLC, I often find 140F, or
> even cooler, is best.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /
> recently updated: Huang Shan

Hey Lew,

Yes it was indeed the same tea from the shop. it's really tough
sometimes i could get a great cup out of it. sometimes it just doesn't
i remembered this tea very well because it was the toughest tea i ever
brewed!

> > Jazzy > writes:
> > > Any one had any toughest experience in brewing tea?
>
> > > I would have to say Bi Luo Chun green tea. I tasted the same tea in
> > > the store brew with the seller and it tasted really good, with mild
> > > nutty flavor and lingering sweet undertones. Back at home i tried
> > > brewing it various methods here and there I couldn't get the best
> > > out of it.
>

Jazzy!

It is the same experience here! That bloody BLC!

I had one from a Dongting West Mountain tea garden. I can't get it to
brew properly.

I paid seriously top top bucks for it.

It has all the signs of an authentic tea.strong fruity aroma that you
will never find anywhere else, very tiny leaves that is so distinctive
of BLC and durability.

But can't brew it right.

I will try again. At different concentration and temperature. Will let
you know.

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

with the BLC i only got to an awesome flavor 1 time,
needed some tea on the go, so i put some leaf in a .5L bottle room
temp water
when i came back (hour/hours?) the fruity/apricot flavor surprised me,
it was so tasty!
but i havent been able to replicate the exact experience.

looks like BLC is really a tough tea to brew!

On Aug 24, 11:09 am, Jazzy > wrote:
> looks like BLC is really a tough tea to brew!

I'm struggling with Dan Cong.

Phyll

Jazzy > writes:

> looks like BLC is really a tough tea to brew!

I've been meaning to mention that I've had an interesting ride with
the BLC I bought in Vancouver from Spring Cottage in late July.
Wanting to use it while it kept some freshness, I've been brewing it
most mornings. As I expected, the full, blooming, melony glory lasted
only the first week. But as the leaves lost freshness, something
unexpected and, to my taste, delightful crept in, starting with the
second steep: a kind of cooling spice note, somewhere in the realm of
cardamom, for want of a really close comparison.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Aug 25, 2:36 am, Phyll > wrote:
> On Aug 24, 11:09 am, Jazzy > wrote:
>
> > looks like BLC is really a tough tea to brew!
>
> I'm struggling with Dan Cong.
>
> Phyll

Phyll,

Dan Cong? Why? How do you ussually brew it? I would use water around
slightly before boiling degree, I admit that it can get nasty with dan
cong, certain breed can go bitter if overbrewed as well as depending
on your brewing techniques you might get more infusions or lesser
infusions.

> Any one had any toughest experience in brewing tea?

>> I would have to say Bi Luo Chun green tea. I tasted the same tea in the
>> store brew with the seller and it tasted really good, with mild nutty
>> flavor and lingering sweet undertones. Back at home i tried brewing it
>> various methods here and there I couldn't get the best out of it.

> Are you *sure* it's the same tea the shop brewed for you?

[Michael]
Lew, it could be the water. Bi Lo Chun is delicate enough to be quite water sensitive in my experience and might account for the difference. It *is* a tricky tea, again in my opinion.

>> Sometimes it taste really stale, i tried with more leaves, shorter
>> brewing time, hotter water, etc but I still couldn't get like how it
>> should taste at the store.

> Have you tried it with cooler water? With BLC, I often find 140F, or even
> cooler, is best.

[Michael]
Truer words, never spoken. Also, BLC is delicate to the point of losing so much of its loveliness so very quickly, I think. Perhaps it did get stale.

snip

> I'm struggling with Dan Cong.
> Phyll

It goes bitter when pushed too far, right? But, for me bitter is not bad. Anyway, I fill my gaiwan or gungfu pot chockablock with Dan Song and then, using water just off the boil, I do instantaneous steeps for the first several and then add seconds slowly from then on. It works for me. BLC I've ruined, DC seldom.

DC is a good example in my opinion of tea which provides, as Lew mentioned in another context, different pleasures brewed in different ways. Although I never bring the water temperature down, I do increase and decrease the amount of leaf and the length of steep occasionally to vary the taste and style: Generally, pushed harder, I get more bitterness and more finish. But, pushed like that, there can be a harshness up front.

Just my random thoughts.

Michael

On Aug 23, 10:54 pm, Jazzy > wrote:
> Any one had any toughest experience in brewing tea?
>
> I would have to say Bi Luo Chun green tea. I tasted the same tea in
> the store brew with the seller and it tasted really good, with mild
> nutty flavor and lingering sweet undertones. Back at home i tried
> brewing it various methods here and there I couldn't get the best out
> of it. Sometimes it taste really stale, i tried with more leaves,
> shorter brewing time, hotter water, etc but I still couldn't get like
> how it should taste at the store. This is one particular incident with
> BLC green tea. Other version of BLCs i had bought did not have this
> issue.
>
> I heard that preparing gong fu cha is really a skill!
> Other kind of tough to brew tea is wu yi rock tea especially some Da
> Hong Pao.

I'm with Lew on this one. If you use water that's too hot, it will
sear the leaves and any flavor out of the tea resulting in some oddly
flavored water. Also be careful about what kind of water you use.
Try to use some kind of mineral water.

Michael Plant > writes:

> > Any one had any toughest experience in brewing tea?
>
> >> I would have to say Bi Luo Chun green tea. I tasted the same tea in the
> >> store brew with the seller and it tasted really good, with mild nutty
> >> flavor and lingering sweet undertones. Back at home i tried brewing it
> >> various methods here and there I couldn't get the best out of it.
>
> > Are you *sure* it's the same tea the shop brewed for you?
>
> [Michael]
> Lew, it could be the water. Bi Lo Chun is delicate enough to be
> quite water sensitive in my experience and might account for the
> difference. It *is* a tricky tea, again in my opinion.

Ah, the water. I find myself daunted by thinking about The influence
of different waters on brewing various teas. There are too many
variables already in trying to get a good cup out of the leaves! And
with my very limited experience comparing waters, I'm not at all sure
that this is an issue only for delicate teas.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Aug 26, 4:41 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> And with my very limited experience comparing waters, I'm not at all sure
> that this is an issue only for delicate teas.
>
> /Lew

Actually that´s the main historic reason for Eastfriesian blends to
contain such high amounts of Assam, usually > 90%. No other tea that
made it over here back in the old days benefitted so much from the
extremely soft, slightly acidic water they have here. From my
experience an average Assam can handle quite a broad span of water
hardness resulting in some interesting changes of flavour and colour
of the brew. However, most Frieseans seem to like their tea water
soft, so some folks took to collecting rain water while other folks I
know over here don´t travel without some canisters of local water in
their cars.
On the other hand I have to use bottled water [Volvic] or add some
minerals for my Darjeelings, using water straight from the tap results
in a flat and downright boring brew.

BTW: having been born and raised in a city with miserably hard water
that is totally unsuitable for any sort of tea [but somehow great for
coffee] this leaves me speculating on what effects a worldwide
improvement in the quality of tap water would have on the popularity
of tea.

Karsten [some Highgrown Sri Lanka leaves in tazza]

writes:

> On Aug 26, 4:41 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> > And with my very limited experience comparing waters, I'm not at all sure
> > that this is an issue only for delicate teas.
>
> Actually that´s the main historic reason for Eastfriesian blends to
> contain such high amounts of Assam, usually > 90%. No other tea that
> made it over here back in the old days benefitted so much from the
> extremely soft, slightly acidic water they have here. From my
> experience an average Assam can handle quite a broad span of water
> hardness resulting in some interesting changes of flavour and colour
> of the brew. However, most Frieseans seem to like their tea water
> soft, so some folks took to collecting rain water while other folks I
> know over here don´t travel without some canisters of local water in
> their cars.

But rainwater would have essentially no minerals at all. So there is
a tea, after all, suited to demineralized or distilled water? Amazing.

> On the other hand I have to use bottled water [Volvic] or add some
> minerals for my Darjeelings, using water straight from the tap results
> in a flat and downright boring brew.

Could you please expand on this fascinating hint? I've often thought
it should be cheap and environmentally responsible to try to emulate
good mineral waters by adding the right salts to tap water.

> BTW: having been born and raised in a city with miserably hard water
> that is totally unsuitable for any sort of tea [but somehow great for
> coffee] this leaves me speculating on what effects a worldwide
> improvement in the quality of tap water would have on the popularity
> of tea.

Maybe it isn't that simple. What would be an improvement in water for
one tea might harm another tea.

> Karsten [some Highgrown Sri Lanka leaves in tazza]

It's a Biluochun morning here.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Aug 27, 4:05 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> writes:
> But rainwater would have essentially no minerals at all. So there is
> a tea, after all, suited to demineralized or distilled water? Amazing.

During my years in Eastfrisia I´ve enjoyed some cups of Eastfrisian
blends that had been prepared that way and I really liked the way
those teas tasted. But then I have to mention that eastfrisian blends
are almost never drunk straight but with a rock of sugar and a
carefully applied layer of thick cream.


> > On the other hand I have to use bottled water [Volvic] or add some
> > minerals for my Darjeelings, using water straight from the tap results
> > in a flat and downright boring brew.
>
> Could you please expand on this fascinating hint? I've often thought
> it should be cheap and environmentally responsible to try to emulate
> good mineral waters by adding the right salts to tap water.

I remember another water/minerals related discussion on rfdt where
DogMa threw in some fascinating facts on adding minerals [gives me
something to google for tonight].
Anyway I tried all kinds of minerals from my stash [homeopathic,
Schindele, "Dr.Schüßler Salze", Basica, ...] with all kinds of
results. Talking about Darjeelings the best additive I´ve found so far
- inspired by talks with my tea guru is .... Darjeeling soil, namely a
pinch of "holy" earth from Arya Tea Estates, Happy Valley, North
Tukvar and others [sue me folks, .... smell another income source
A. ?]
I just throw it on top of the leaves before I add the water, a little
more than 0,5g/l.
Again it could be all 100% subjective, like the driving force behind
my never ending quest for the "optimum" brewing parameters, but
somehow more nuances appear to make it through, not necessarily those
of the earth but those I remember from having drunk that specific tea
up there where it comes from.
YMMV.

> > BTW: having been born and raised in a city with miserably hard water
> > that is totally unsuitable for any sort of tea [but somehow great for
> > coffee] this leaves me speculating on what effects a worldwide
> > improvement in the quality of tap water would have on the popularity
> > of tea.
>
> Maybe it isn't that simple. What would be an improvement in water for
> one tea might harm another tea.

Certainly so, but having traveled a little bit I found the water from
quite a few places - no matter if cold from the tap or boiled entirely
undrinkeable or in our case unsuitable for the preparation of any tea
I know of.

Karsten [just back from a delicious afternoon tea session with my
eastfriesian neighbor, a "Buenting" lady]

Lewis Perin wrote:
> I've often thought
> it should be cheap and environmentally responsible to try to emulate
> good mineral waters by adding the right salts to tap water.

Yeah - be a heck of a lot more convenient than schlepping water home
from the market. I've tried a few saltoid addenda, including sea salt,
garden lime, crushed dolomite and alum, but none worked very well. When
the need seems to arise, I just add a small splash of bottled mineral
water - full strength is far too much.

A critical option is brew vs. spike: add minerals to the brewing water,
or to the brewed infusion off the leaf. They both work, and I usually
can't tell the difference. (Of course, I can't tell tea from coffee
without a look at the label, but that's another story.) This casts some
doubt on the extraction-variables case - though whether or not ions
matter much in brewing (as distinct from effects on the tongue, or in
binding solutes in various ways), I remain convinced that extraction is
indeed affected strongly by small changes in pH.

-DM

On 2007-09-04, DogMa > wrote:
> Lewis Perin wrote:

>> I've often thought it should be cheap and environmentally responsible
>> to try to emulate good mineral waters by adding the right salts to
>> tap water.

> Yeah - be a heck of a lot more convenient than schlepping water home
> from the market. I've tried a few saltoid addenda, including sea salt,
> garden lime, crushed dolomite and alum, but none worked very well.

Danica has some stuff that's designed for re-mineralizing filtered or
distilled water... it seems to work Ok. You just put a few drops in the
water before heating it.

w

DogMa > wrote:
>Lewis Perin wrote:
>> I've often thought
>> it should be cheap and environmentally responsible to try to emulate
>> good mineral waters by adding the right salts to tap water.
>
>Yeah - be a heck of a lot more convenient than schlepping water home
>from the market. I've tried a few saltoid addenda, including sea salt,
>garden lime, crushed dolomite and alum, but none worked very well. When
>the need seems to arise, I just add a small splash of bottled mineral
>water - full strength is far too much.

Ask a local homebrew shop for "Burton's Water Salts." This is a mineral
mix that is intended to duplicate the mineral water composition at a
particular site in the UK. When added to distilled water it gives you
a nice soft mineral water.

>A critical option is brew vs. spike: add minerals to the brewing water,
>or to the brewed infusion off the leaf. They both work, and I usually
>can't tell the difference. (Of course, I can't tell tea from coffee
>without a look at the label, but that's another story.) This casts some
>doubt on the extraction-variables case - though whether or not ions
>matter much in brewing (as distinct from effects on the tongue, or in
>binding solutes in various ways), I remain convinced that extraction is
>indeed affected strongly by small changes in pH.

This makes sense, but I suspect it's more than just pH too.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Jazzy]
Dan Cong? Why? How do you ussually brew it? I would use water around
slightly before boiling degree, I admit that it can get nasty with
dan
cong, certain breed can go bitter if overbrewed as well as depending
on your brewing techniques you might get more infusions or lesser
infusions.

[Michael Plant]
> It goes bitter when pushed too far, right? But, for me bitter is not bad. Anyway, I fill my gaiwan or gungfu pot chockablock with Dan Song and then, using water just off the boil, I do instantaneous steeps for the first several and then add seconds slowly from then on. It works for me. BLC I've ruined, DC seldom.

> DC is a good example in my opinion of tea which provides, as Lew mentioned in another context, different pleasures brewed in different ways. Although I never bring the water temperature down, I do increase and decrease the amount of leaf and the length of steep occasionally to vary the taste and style: Generally, pushed harder, I get more bitterness and more finish. But, pushed like that, there can be a harshness up front.
>
> Michael

Sorry for the late reply, Jazzy and Michael. It's hard to get a
consistent and intended result, and I'm still trying different brewing
parameters that involve leaf : water ratio and steeping time. Yes, it
gets bitter easily when pushed (not) too far, or gets too astringent
with some types. It is an oolong that I find very sensitive to
temperature, time and quantity of leaves used. To complicate matter,
there are many roasting level of the tea, and each type is somewhat a
different animal, requiring its own learning curve to get it "right".

What I "usually" do (I have not settled with any adopted MO) with the
high fire DC is to fill 1/4 of my gaiwan or Yixing with leaves and use
just-boiled water. No direct hot water contact with the leaves (I
slowly pour the hot water onto the lid of my Yixing pot -- the lid
opens halfway and slants, so water slides down into the pot -- OR onto
the sides of my gaiwan in circular movement). Short infusions
starting with about 5 - 7 secs. Lid of vessel is opened right after
pouring to prevent the leaves from getting over-cooked.

I use much less leaves with the greener Dan Cong, as it can become
pretty nasty very quickly, but quite lovely when controlled properly.

Does anyone recommend brewing DC with lower temp? Toki of The
Mandarin Tea blog does cold brewing with his Dan Cong (here is a guy
who knows his Dan Cong and where to get great stuff from).

Michael, I've never done that technique before with DC (chockablock --
water just off the boil -- instantaneous steeps for the first several
and then add seconds slowly), although that's what I do with Wuyi
Yancha (my "chockablock" maxes out at 3/4 of the vessel, though --
more than that is too toxic for me).

Comments and advise are appreciated. Thanks.

Phyll
http://phyllsheng.blogspot.com