I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

toci > writes:

> I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
> water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
> and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

Your generosity is appreciated, but in fairness to yourself, don't
assume your taste will never change.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Aug 3, 3:02 pm, toci > wrote:
> I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
> water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
> and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

I'm not a lover of whites or Darjeelings myself, but I have come
across a number that are undeniably excellent. I think the separation
between bad and good is much greater in these teas, and there is very
little (to no) middle ground for mediocre ones. They also vary more
wildly than a lot of other teas year to year in flavor, so a favorite
this year can be a dog next.

I have one or two whites I go to when I want one, and I tend to favor
the muscatel-ish Darjeelings. They have their own nuances and brewing
characteristics, I'll admit I don't like them enough to spend tons of
time and effort on the subject to be an expert... but I do listen to
the Darjeeling speak on here and occasionally hit a winner. I've never
met a "white tea person", who favors them predominantly or specializes
in just them... they are kind of a curiosity and change of pace, but
not much more for me.

- Dominic

/I hated and swore off Kudingcha (I even talked it down on here) but
guess what I have been craving and drinking as of late? Yep. Those
bitter nails have been in my gaiwan for the past week almost
exclusively.

Hey Toci
Just curios what type of foods do you eat, reason I ask is that the
white teas and darjeelings bode well with light food like say fish
where as the heavy stuff like say keemun goes good with your meats
etc . Maybe that s why they are very uninteresting to to the
pallette ?

Maurice

toci wrote:
> I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> that mean- tastes like water.

Have you tried the newly available oolong-style Darjeelings? If they
aren't strong enough, it's a short step to poteen or asphalt.

-DM

On Aug 3, 12:02 pm, toci > wrote:
> I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
> water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
> and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

Until recently, I would have agreed with you. Whites, particularly,
have always seemed a little insipid to me.
However, during a recent green tea tasting at Imperial Tea Court, I
had the privilege of savouring some "Everyday White". This white,
unlike one-note others, is thick with flavour: sweet, slightly floral,
but robust and toasty. It was sun-dried and, perhaps, that contributed
to the taste complexity. I don't know.
A pretty inexpensive tea, as well -$5.60 an oz.
Occasionally, I'll find a white tea in Oakland Chinatown that I enjoy
and usually freshness can play a very big part in that selection.
There seems to be nothing more dreary than a stale white tea.
Recently, I've had some Darjeelings from Lochan in India that are
superior - rich, full of muscatel, tawny and fruity. The vendor that
Phyll recommended, The Simple Leaf, has some really splendid
Darjeeling-types and Oolongs,too. The "Honeybee" is exceptional.
None of these teas, in the slightest, resemble water.
A suggestion: take a break from the teas you've considered "dainty"
and try some other vendors. I can guarantee that you'll not find
"Everyday White" from ITC ethereal, light or
dainty....................
Shen

On Aug 3, 4:24 pm, DogMa > wrote:
> toci wrote:
> > I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> > Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> > that mean- tastes like water.
>
> Have you tried the newly available oolong-style Darjeelings? If they
> aren't strong enough, it's a short step to poteen or asphalt.
>
> -DM

DogMa, can you recommend a source for those?

Alex

Shen > writes:

> [...] during a recent green tea tasting at Imperial Tea Court, I
> had the privilege of savouring some "Everyday White". This white,
> unlike one-note others, is thick with flavour: sweet, slightly floral,
> but robust and toasty. It was sun-dried and, perhaps, that contributed
> to the taste complexity.

If it isn't (partially) sun-dried, it shouldn't be called white tea.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Aug 3, 9:02 pm, toci > wrote:
> I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> that mean- tastes like water.

I don´t know which DJs you´ve tried, but not too few of them, not only
those Oolongs DogMa mentioned, play in quite a different league. And
yes, they´re not easy to tame, can be pretty finicky to say the least
but too me that´s part of the fun. After ??? knows how many different
DJs I´ve tried over the years every single pot I brew remains a
challenge, it never gets boring. No other teas I know of react so
picky when it comes to brewing parameters and water qualities.
Just keep in mind that around 75% of all teas sold as Darjeelings have
been grown somewhere else.

PS: I second lochantea.com as a source for high-class DJs. These guys
know tea - inside and out.
Don´t give up 5 min. before the miracle happens.

Karsten [Eastfrisian blend in tazza]

On Aug 3, 2:15 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> Shen > writes:
> > [...] during a recent green tea tasting at Imperial Tea Court, I
> > had the privilege of savouring some "Everyday White". This white,
> > unlike one-note others, is thick with flavour: sweet, slightly floral,
> > but robust and toasty. It was sun-dried and, perhaps, that contributed
> > to the taste complexity.
>
> If it isn't (partially) sun-dried, it shouldn't be called white tea.
>
> /Lew
> ---
> Lew Perin /

Lew,
I believe this is totally sun-dried.
Shen

On Aug 3, 3:59 pm, Shen > wrote:
> On Aug 3, 2:15 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
>
> > Shen > writes:
> > > [...] during a recent green tea tasting at Imperial Tea Court, I
> > > had the privilege of savouring some "Everyday White". This white,
> > > unlike one-note others, is thick with flavour: sweet, slightly floral,
> > > but robust and toasty. It was sun-dried and, perhaps, that contributed
> > > to the taste complexity.
>
> > If it isn't (partially) sun-dried, it shouldn't be called white tea.
>
> > /Lew
> > ---
> > Lew Perin /
>
> Lew,
> I believe this is totally sun-dried.
> Shen

PS - From what I understand, most whites today are roasted dry.
Shen

On Aug 3, 3:01 pm, wrote:
> On Aug 3, 9:02 pm, toci > wrote:
>
> > I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> > Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> > that mean- tastes like water.
>
> I don´t know which DJs you´ve tried, but not too few of them, not only
> those Oolongs DogMa mentioned, play in quite a different league. And
> yes, they´re not easy to tame, can be pretty finicky to say the least
> but too me that´s part of the fun. After ??? knows how many different
> DJs I´ve tried over the years every single pot I brew remains a
> challenge, it never gets boring. No other teas I know of react so
> picky when it comes to brewing parameters and water qualities.
> Just keep in mind that around 75% of all teas sold as Darjeelings have
> been grown somewhere else.
>
> PS: I second lochantea.com as a source for high-class DJs. These guys
> know tea - inside and out.
> Don´t give up 5 min. before the miracle happens.
>
> Karsten [Eastfrisian blend in tazza]

Karsten,
I'm sipping Lochan's Okayti Wonder right now! A wonder it is, too!
The Lochan Darjeelings Oolongs are also exquisite, though, without the
lingering depth of other teas.
I agree. Before negating the briallance of some Darjeelings, try some
from Lochan. The Lochan family take personal pride in their teas,
deservedly so.
BTW, I also enjoy Okayti wonder chilled.
Shen

On Aug 3, 1:20 pm, magicleaf > wrote:
> Hey Toci
> Just curios what type of foods do you eat, reason I ask is that the
> white teas and darjeelings bode well with light food like say fish
> where as the heavy stuff like say keemun goes good with your meats
> etc . Maybe that s why they are very uninteresting to to the
> pallette ?
>
> Maurice

Slightly Off-topic
Maurice,
I REALLY appreciate your mentioning food pairings with tea. We are
planning a dinner party (pot-luck) soon in which guests will be asked
to pair a tea, as well as a wine, with different courses. Should be
fun!
I agree about the white tea. I recently prepared a sole entree with a
white tea and caper sauce.
Shen

On Aug 4, 1:09 am, Shen > wrote:
>
> Karsten,
> I'm sipping Lochan's Okayti Wonder right now! A wonder it is, too!
> The Lochan Darjeelings Oolongs are also exquisite, though, without the
> lingering depth of other teas.
> I agree. Before negating the briallance of some Darjeelings, try some
> from Lochan. The Lochan family take personal pride in their teas,
> deservedly so.
> BTW, I also enjoy Okayti wonder chilled.
> Shen

Shen,
it´s already too late for another pot of tea over here, but I´m
looking forward to a exquisite pot of some of my remaining Gopaldhara
Red Thunder tomorrow. Aahh ...
PS: I forgot to mention the pot. No other pot I owned brings out the
nuances of my beloved 2nd flush and autumn DJs like that tiny but
heavy, dented 8oz silver pot I carry around wherever I go. My DJ
Oolongs though end up in a 3.oz Yixing or gaiwan.
PS: I never tried them chilled, just cold.

Enjoy your wonder !

Karsten [sacktime]

I also don't really like Darjeeling right now. I haven't really played
much with whites. I tried a few DJs, first and second flush, and they
were okay, but didn't thrill me.

But I feel compelled to celebrate two other comments made above, which
are (1) the great thing about tea is that there is enough variety out
there so as to fit your every mood. There are often times when I buy a
tea I don't like initially, only to crave it later . . . from seeing
what is above, this must be a common occurrence. It can drive me
crazy, such as when I crave one tea, only to buy a whole bunch and
realize a week later that I am actually craving something completely
different; (2) brewing parameters really can affect tea a lot. I guess
this is obvious, but anecdotedly I recently bought an aged oolong from
Hou De and didn't really like it at all when I tried to brew it gong
fu style. It tasted kind of musty and somehow incomplete. I was
lamenting the purchase. Yet one day on a whim I put a lesser amount in
my gaiwan and brewed it as a relatively lighter brew, which totally
changed the experience and brought out a lot of things I actually
liked about the tea.

I guess my lesson has been to never swear off one particular tea--but
rather to just say that it is not my current favorite.

Charles

On Aug 3, 5:51 pm, cha bing > wrote:
> I also don't really like Darjeeling right now. I haven't really played
> much with whites. I tried a few DJs, first and second flush, and they
> were okay, but didn't thrill me.
>
> But I feel compelled to celebrate two other comments made above, which
> are (1) the great thing about tea is that there is enough variety out
> there so as to fit your every mood. There are often times when I buy a
> tea I don't like initially, only to crave it later . . . from seeing
> what is above, this must be a common occurrence. It can drive me
> crazy, such as when I crave one tea, only to buy a whole bunch and
> realize a week later that I am actually craving something completely
> different; (2) brewing parameters really can affect tea a lot. I guess
> this is obvious, but anecdotedly I recently bought an aged oolong from
> Hou De and didn't really like it at all when I tried to brew it gong
> fu style. It tasted kind of musty and somehow incomplete. I was
> lamenting the purchase. Yet one day on a whim I put a lesser amount in
> my gaiwan and brewed it as a relatively lighter brew, which totally
> changed the experience and brought out a lot of things I actually
> liked about the tea.
>
> I guess my lesson has been to never swear off one particular tea--but
> rather to just say that it is not my current favorite.
>
> Charles

Well said, Cha bing!
Shen

Hey, just to add a few comments on white tea he

1. I have been trying to source a white tea in China, and to my
surprise, the bulk price is not expensive at all, and not at all
compared to the like of authentic xihu longjing tea or houkeng taiping
houkui tea or dong ting biluochun tea.

2. The price quoted by Sheng is inflated, as he rightly commented on.
It is possible to source the highest grade (organically produced,
first round of spring harvest (ming qian) at much lower price from
Fujian.

3. There are two kinds of Chinese white tea. One is from Fuding, which
is indoor dried. The other is from Zhenhe, which is sun dried. I have
not tried both, but Chinese experts have never preferred one to
another. They have their own individual characteristics, at the
moment, I am open to both.

I think it is more important to get the tea garden and cropping dates.
Tea selection is always the single most important determinant of
quality.

Jing, for example, has always insisted that Zhenhe as superior, as it
was a tribute tea. It is misleadng, as White tea plant was first
invented in Fuding, and later successful cultivated in Zhenhe.

Zhenhe did have a tribute tea much earlier, but it was a steamed tea,
not a white tea.

4. The most lovely thing about the white tea I tried was the grape
favor, and the fact that it is always sweet no matter how you brew it.
But compared to the finer green tea I have, it lacks the aftertaste,
lacked the "cooked" favor, and far too cooling for me.

But still nice to have in the summer

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

Ephemeral is a term I use to descibe white tea taste. I wouldn't use
that to describe any DJ I've tasted. White teas can take a beating so
use boiling water, clog a pot, sit back and wait. Go to Chinatown and
buy some cheap Fujian SowMee. Be sure to have a snake handy. The
Yunnan Silver and Purple buds are very tasty and cheap by the 1/2 kilo
from Chinese sources.

Jim

toci wrote:
> I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
> water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
> and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

Shen > writes:

> On Aug 3, 3:59 pm, Shen > wrote:
> > On Aug 3, 2:15 pm, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> > [...]
> > > If it isn't (partially) sun-dried, it shouldn't be called white tea.
> >
> > Lew, I believe this is totally sun-dried.
> > Shen
>
> PS - From what I understand, most whites today are roasted dry.

I don't mean to be schoolmarmish, but my understanding is that a tea
that's dried completely with added heat, with no input from the sun,
is green. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm currently
enjoying a *green* Fuding Silver Needle tea - but sun-drying gives tea
a different "personality". For one thing, it's inevitably somewhat
oxidized, as green tea shouldn't be.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

> that to describe any DJ I've tasted. White teas can take a beating so
> use boiling water, clog a pot, sit back and wait. Go to Chinatown and
> buy some cheap Fujian SowMee. Be sure to have a snake handy. The
> Yunnan Silver and Purple buds are very tasty and cheap by the 1/2 kilo
> from Chinese sources.

Hey Jim

I heartily agree with you, although I may need to further research the
brewing temperature just to be sure.

Most people recommend brewing white tea the same way as the more
delicate green tea at 70 to 80 degree celcius and steeping for 1 to 3
minutes.

But they forgot that the Da Bai tea plant produces very fat tea bud,
and it may take higher temperature and longer brewing time to extract
it.

Just had another 3 cups just now .. hmmm... not bad at all Probably
my last cup until my next order.

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

On Aug 4, 10:19 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> Ephemeral is a term I use to descibe white tea taste. I wouldn't use
> that to describe any DJ I've tasted. White teas can take a beating so
> use boiling water, clog a pot, sit back and wait. Go to Chinatown and
> buy some cheap Fujian SowMee. Be sure to have a snake handy. The
> Yunnan Silver and Purple buds are very tasty and cheap by the 1/2 kilo
> from Chinese sources.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> toci wrote:
> > I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> > Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> > that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
> > water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
> > and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Snake? Toci

> I don't mean to be schoolmarmish, but my understanding is that a tea
> that's dried completely with added heat, with no input from the sun,
> is green. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm currently
> enjoying a *green* Fuding Silver Needle tea - but sun-drying gives tea
> a different "personality". For one thing, it's inevitably somewhat
> oxidized, as green tea shouldn't be.


Lewis

If you don't mind me asking, what colour is the tea liquor of your
"green" Fuding Bai Hao tea?

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

juliantai > writes:

> > I don't mean to be schoolmarmish, but my understanding is that a tea
> > that's dried completely with added heat, with no input from the sun,
> > is green. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm currently
> > enjoying a *green* Fuding Silver Needle tea - but sun-drying gives tea
> > a different "personality". For one thing, it's inevitably somewhat
> > oxidized, as green tea shouldn't be.
>
>
> Lewis
>
> If you don't mind me asking, what colour is the tea liquor of your
> "green" Fuding Bai Hao tea?

Not at all. It's the palest shade of green. And, while these terms
seem to have some elasticity, it's billed as Yin Zhen, not Bai Hao.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Aug 4, 9:30 pm, juliantai > wrote:
> > I don't mean to be schoolmarmish, but my understanding is that a tea
> > that's dried completely with added heat, with no input from the sun,
> > is green. Not that there's anything wrong with that - I'm currently
> > enjoying a *green* Fuding Silver Needle tea - but sun-drying gives tea
> > a different "personality". For one thing, it's inevitably somewhat
> > oxidized, as green tea shouldn't be.
>

This is my last post for the week, I will go crazy if I look at the
PC anymore.
This online thing is getting too addictive. I think I have to go back
to reading a book
and baby-sitting.



As far as I am aware, white goes through two processes:

1. withering, which take on average 2 days
2. drying

Where the drying can be baking or sun-drying.

The important bit is the withering. The key is to encourage the
chemical reactions to take place, without causing the tea polyphenol
to oxidise. In this long process, moisture is reduced to mere 20%.

Ambient temperature, moisture, air-flow, how the leaves are spread out
need to be carefully regulated.

2 days are pretty long time, so this withering process is considered
"heavy", and causes the tea to oxidise slightly, regardless of what
happens afterwards (baking or sun drying).

In another note, no manufacturer can ever guarantee that their tea is
completely sun-dried, because if day 3 happens to be cloudy or rainy,
they have to use baking. The tea can't wait.

There is another variety of white tea called "new white tea", which is
more oxidised, produces a tea liquor that is orangy in colour and
tastes more like green tea but without the fragrance.

It comes from Fuding, so I was just wondering if this is the "green
white tea" Lewis was referring too.

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

Alex wrote:
>> Have you tried the newly available oolong-style Darjeelings? If they
>> aren't strong enough, it's a short step to poteen or asphalt.
>
> DogMa, can you recommend a source for those?
> Alex

I've had some stunners from a new mail-order source,

tea AT finesttippy.com

who buys small lots of limited offerings. No web site yet, AFAIK.
Disclosu I got some free samples, and liked all of them. (More at
RFDT posts of 3/1 and 3/5/07.) I'm told that a couple of other US
vendors have access to specialty Darjeelings of this caliber, but
haven't tested them yet.

As a broader statement, on which matter others here have commented:
until about 50 years ago, Darjeelings were offered with greater
fermentation. Since my youth, they've gone as green as a standard TGY.
Personally, I don't think that the DJ aroma/taste profile works at all
at low fermentation; too astringent and fragrant with not enough body.
Now that oolong-style DJs are back, I'm a frequent drinker, either naked
or with a little milk - seems to work just fine either way, to my
surprise. Planning to try icing some now that hot weather is here.

-DM

On Aug 5, 5:39 am, juliantai > wrote:
> On Aug 4, 9:30 pm, juliantai > wrote:
>

> As far as I am aware, white goes through two processes:
>
> 1. withering, which take on average 2 days
> 2. drying
>
> Where the drying can be baking or sun-drying.
>
The drying is mostly done through low temperature baking. Sun-drying
will take too long for the tea and encourage cell oxidation. Oxidation
does not occur in the processing of green tea, but for white tea, a
low percentage of oxidation usually takes place - the new 'white tea'
you mentioned has higher oxidation level, possibly to mimic the flavor
of aged white tea, but it is not quite close. I think both 'new white
tea' and 'green silver needle' are the lazy man's alternative to white
tea, since the processing of white tea is very time consuming, making
a green tea or making it with higher oxidation level are a much
simpler process without having to supervise the processing too
closely, but still, each tea has its fans and followers.

Withering takes place in both outdoor and indoor. The withering has
to move between these two areas as soon as either place is deem
unfavorable - the sun getting too hot, the leaves unable to reduce
moisture indoor within desired time, etc.

Danny

On Aug 4, 3:02 am, toci > wrote:
> I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
> water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
> and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

I never like white teas but darjeelings are fine to me. I drink them
with milk and sugar. I seldom drink them without them. I would
definately try lochan teas from the review above.

juliantai > writes:

> [...Lew: white tea must be at least partially sun-dried...]
> [...]
>
> As far as I am aware, white goes through two processes:
>
> 1. withering, which take on average 2 days
> 2. drying
>
> Where the drying can be baking or sun-drying.

But sun-drying can't remove enough moisture to yield stable finished
tea, can it? Tea isn't grown and manufactured it deserts, after all.

> The important bit is the withering. The key is to encourage the
> chemical reactions to take place, without causing the tea polyphenol
> to oxidise. In this long process, moisture is reduced to mere 20%.

Agreed, but what kind of withering are you speaking of? You're saying
it takes place indoors, right?

I think I was wrong to say white tea *must* be sun-dried, but it's
easy to find reputable sources on the Web that assert that the *best*
white tea is sun-dried:

http://jingtea.com/tea-knowledge/tea...and-production

so that withering would be done in the sun.

Julian, you've actually seen this wither-then-dry manufacture done in
Fujian, haven't you? I certainly don't want to put myself in the
position of denying what you've seen with your own eyes!

> Ambient temperature, moisture, air-flow, how the leaves are spread out
> need to be carefully regulated.
>
> 2 days are pretty long time, so this withering process is considered
> "heavy", and causes the tea to oxidise slightly, regardless of what
> happens afterwards (baking or sun drying).
>
> In another note, no manufacturer can ever guarantee that their tea is
> completely sun-dried, because if day 3 happens to be cloudy or rainy,
> they have to use baking. The tea can't wait.

But if the sun exposure were done on the *first* day, a manufacturer
could pluck leaves and buds destined for white tea only on sunny days,
right? Perhaps the Fuding green Silver Needle I have was plucked on a
cloudy or rainy day. Not to mention Fuding and Zhenghe red teas...

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

> But sun-drying can't remove enough moisture to yield stable finished
> tea, can it? Tea isn't grown and manufactured it deserts, after all.

Withering takes the moisture down to 20%. Using the Zhenhe style,
white tea is left in hot sun to dry all the way (6% and below).

But if day 3 is a cloudy/rainy day it is a different story.

> Agreed, but what kind of withering are you speaking of? You're saying
> it takes place indoors, right?

As Danny hinted, there are 3 types of withering: natural, heated
indoor, and combination.

Natural withering can take place indoor or outdoor. If it is exposed
to sun, weak sun is used.

The Fuding white tea used all three. Zhenghe tend to use sun drying,
subject to weather.

> Julian, you've actually seen this wither-then-dry manufacture done in
> Fujian, haven't you? I certainly don't want to put myself in the
> position of denying what you've seen with your own eyes!

Lewis, I am open to challenge, and learning like everyone else. Tea
making is such a complex subject that unless you are a pro (not
myself, maybe only Nigel and other tea garden owners), you can never
be sure of what actually happen.

> But if the sun exposure were done on the *first* day, a manufacturer
> could pluck leaves and buds destined for white tea only on sunny days,
> right? Perhaps the Fuding green Silver Needle I have was plucked on a
> cloudy or rainy day. Not to mention Fuding and Zhenghe red teas...

The harvesting tends to take place on a sunny day, as any teas plucked
during a rainy day will be bad. It just won't have the right chemical
composition.

What distinguish the Zhenghe style is that the final drying uses sun,
rather than the oven. Fuding tea can uses sun for withering too, but
they never use the sun for drying.

The Zhenghe style may take shortcut in this way, akin to what you
suggested.

Pick the tea on a sunny day, sun dry in the morning for 3 hours, then
leave indoor to wither naturally. Finally oven-bake indoor. If done
this way, I can't see much difference between the Fuding and Zhenghe
style.

Julian
http://www.amazing-green-tea.com

On Aug 4, 12:02 am, toci > wrote:
> I've finally come to the conclusion that both the white teas and
> Darjeelings are not for me. Ethereal, dainty, light, are all words
> that mean- tastes like water. Not that there's anything wrong with
> water, but why mix expensive leaves in it? For those who can taste
> and rhapsidize over them, you now have more. Toci

hello toci,

good day to you - i hope you had a wonderful weekend! i am ankit from
india - just returned from a trip to bhutan and the first thing that i
have landed myself into is this really intresting discussions on
darjeeling white teas - i love to talk to people on the subject of
"Darjeeling"

i do not know which white teas of darjeeling you have tried or drunk -
i have a small request to make - please log on to www.teasetc.com and
try the thurbo white tea - if your opinion doesnt change about
darjeeling whites i would love to send you some whites from my
personal collection of rare teas - free of any charge.

i personally believe that a lot of people for the sake of making money
are misutilising the name darjeeling and it could be to the extent as
mentioned by one of our friends on this usenet group that the tea you
were supplied was not a real darjeeling produce - i do not gurantee
that - just one of the options.

the darjeeling silver needles are light liquoring and muscatel tasting
teas that leave a very sweet aftertaste while the bai mu dans are
compared stronger and the oolongs are more on the white tea side but
surely they have more strenghth than the whites.

i am not trying to change your views -- my motive is only to actually
try to get you to taste the right darjeeling teas before coming to a
final conclusion that darjeeling white teas are not your type.

regarding the darjeelings - if we are talking of blacks - you need to
go to www.teasource.com and try his goomtee and jungpana second flush
2007 black teas - your views are sure to change - i can gurantee it
(gold help me - Amen)

looking forward to your reply soon!


regards
ankit
www.doketea.com

hello friends - some of you may disagree and not like the way i have
projected this - my motive is not to hurt anyone - just sharing some
thoughts :

The Champagne of Tea

Darjeeling is the champagne of Indian tea. On the world market,
without the name Darjeeling, Indian tea would be like French wine
without the prestige of champagne. This wine of wines forms only 3
percent of the total production in France but its prestige-value is
incalculable.

Other countries like Italy, Germany, Portugal and Spain produce just
as good wine as France does. In fact, certain varieties like Morselle
and Riesling from Germany and Chianti from Italy are far better than
their French comparables. And yet, France experiences a unique pride
and enjoys an unusual prestige in the realm of wine. In fact, in the
mind of the average person, especially outside Europe, good wine is
synonymous with French wine.

As with champagne and wine, so with Darjeeling and tea, the mention of
the finest tea anywhere in the world immediately brings to the mind
the sound of the word Darjeeling. The district produces only about ten
million kilograms of tea which is about 1 percent of the total Indian
production. Yet, it is reported that ten times as much tea is sold as
Darjeeling tea both overseas as well as in India. Instances have been
detected when a tea packet purported to have been packed in another
country claimed to contain pure Darjeelings. Such is the charisma of
the word Darjeeling and the temptation to exploit it to realize either
a premium price or a larger sale.

regards
ankit lochan

hello!

i am a bit confused on what is the issue going on about sun drying.

a clarification - in darjeeling - we never sun dry our white teas.

regards
ankit

On Aug 6, 2:39 am, Ankit Lochan > wrote:
>
> i have a small request to make - please log on towww.teasetc.com and
> try the thurbo white tea -

Hi--

I have always loved reading your posts! Thank you!

Teasetc has two white darjeelings on their site right now. One is
"Darjeeling White," and the notes say it is from Poobong Estate. The
other is "Darjeeling First Flush White Tea," and the notes don't say
where it comes from. Is this second one the Thurbo you were
recommending?

Many thanks,

james-henry

It's probably what you use if you dump a clogged teapot of SowMee down
the sink. SowMee looks like the fall leaves that have dried out in
the sun from my Maple tree.

Jim

toci wrote:
> On Aug 4, 10:19 am, Space Cowboy > wrote:
> > Go to Chinatown and
> > buy some cheap Fujian SowMee. Be sure to have a snake handy
> > Jim
>
> Snake? Toci

On Aug 5, 11:43 pm, Ankit Lochan > wrote:
> hello friends - some of you may disagree and not like the way i have
> projected this - my motive is not to hurt anyone - just sharing some
> thoughts :
>
> The Champagne of Tea
>
> Darjeeling is the champagne of Indian tea. On the world market,
> without the name Darjeeling, Indian tea would be like French wine
> without the prestige of champagne. This wine of wines forms only 3
> percent of the total production in France but its prestige-value is
> incalculable.
>
> Other countries like Italy, Germany, Portugal and Spain produce just
> as good wine as France does. In fact, certain varieties like Morselle
> and Riesling from Germany and Chianti from Italy are far better than
> their French comparables. And yet, France experiences a unique pride
> and enjoys an unusual prestige in the realm of wine. In fact, in the
> mind of the average person, especially outside Europe, good wine is
> synonymous with French wine.
>
> As with champagne and wine, so with Darjeeling and tea, the mention of
> the finest tea anywhere in the world immediately brings to the mind
> the sound of the word Darjeeling. The district produces only about ten
> million kilograms of tea which is about 1 percent of the total Indian
> production. Yet, it is reported that ten times as much tea is sold as
> Darjeeling tea both overseas as well as in India. Instances have been
> detected when a tea packet purported to have been packed in another
> country claimed to contain pure Darjeelings. Such is the charisma of
> the word Darjeeling and the temptation to exploit it to realize either
> a premium price or a larger sale.
>
> regards
> ankit lochan

Ankit,
So good to hear from you! If anyone should have the scoop on fine
Darjeelings, it would be Lochan family member!
I suppose I started this "sun-drying" thing in a previous posting: the
white tea I enjoyed so much from Imperial Tea Court, "Everyday White",
is fully sundried. Mr. Roy Fong, proprietor, said this was a rare
thing nowadays because most whites are partially roasted. I garnered
this information from him directly since I was participating in a
Spring 2007 Green Tea Tasting which he offered. It's on his web-site,
as well.
Thanks so much for piping in here to share information about the
complexities of good Darjeelings.
Shen

juliantai > writes:

> [...]
> Lewis, I am open to challenge, and learning like everyone else.

Julian, this could be the RFDT motto. I hate it when I allow myself
to use an authoritative tone of voice here.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On 2007-08-06, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> juliantai > writes:
>> Lewis, I am open to challenge, and learning like everyone else.
>
> Julian, this could be the RFDT motto. I hate it when I allow myself
> to use an authoritative tone of voice here.

Definitely!

N., ducking

Natarajan Krishnaswami > writes:

> On 2007-08-06, Lewis Perin > wrote:
> > juliantai > writes:
> >> Lewis, I am open to challenge, and learning like everyone else.
> >
> > Julian, this could be the RFDT motto. I hate it when I allow myself
> > to use an authoritative tone of voice here.
>
> Definitely!
>
> N., ducking

But not fast enough: you're under arrest for excessive certitude.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
recently updated: bai cha

hi james,

thank you for the kind words!

http://www.teasetc.com/details.asp?prodid=0312

The darjeeling first flush is the one i was refering to - please go
ahead and try that. it hails from the thurbo tea estate.

Something on the Thurbo tea estate for you as Beth has not mentioned
where the tea hails from.

"Thurbo Tea garden, owned and operated by Goodricke Group Limited, is
right in the heart of Mirik. In the hills of Mirik the clouds hang so
low, you can literally reach up and touch them! The lush green hills
and the beautiful earthy smell is only accentuated with the shafts of
sunlight piercing the clouds to create a surreal atmosphere. The
weather is cool during most parts of the year with drizzling rain,
allowing the bushes to grow slowly and produce the muscatel flavor."


regards
ankit lochan
www.xanga.com/lochantea

On Aug 6, 5:48 pm, Shen > wrote:
> On Aug 5, 11:43 pm, Ankit Lochan > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > hello friends - some of you may disagree and not like the way i have
> > projected this - my motive is not to hurt anyone - just sharing some
> > thoughts :
>
> > The Champagne of Tea
>
> > Darjeeling is the champagne of Indian tea. On the world market,
> > without the name Darjeeling, Indian tea would be like French wine
> > without the prestige of champagne. This wine of wines forms only 3
> > percent of the total production in France but its prestige-value is
> > incalculable.
>
> > Other countries like Italy, Germany, Portugal and Spain produce just
> > as good wine as France does. In fact, certain varieties like Morselle
> > and Riesling from Germany and Chianti from Italy are far better than
> > their French comparables. And yet, France experiences a unique pride
> > and enjoys an unusual prestige in the realm of wine. In fact, in the
> > mind of the average person, especially outside Europe, good wine is
> > synonymous with French wine.
>
> > As with champagne and wine, so with Darjeeling and tea, the mention of
> > the finest tea anywhere in the world immediately brings to the mind
> > the sound of the word Darjeeling. The district produces only about ten
> > million kilograms of tea which is about 1 percent of the total Indian
> > production. Yet, it is reported that ten times as much tea is sold as
> > Darjeeling tea both overseas as well as in India. Instances have been
> > detected when a tea packet purported to have been packed in another
> > country claimed to contain pure Darjeelings. Such is the charisma of
> > the word Darjeeling and the temptation to exploit it to realize either
> > a premium price or a larger sale.
>
> > regards
> > ankit lochan
>
> Ankit,
> So good to hear from you! If anyone should have the scoop on fine
> Darjeelings, it would be Lochan family member!
> I suppose I started this "sun-drying" thing in a previous posting: the
> white tea I enjoyed so much from Imperial Tea Court, "Everyday White",
> is fully sundried. Mr. Roy Fong, proprietor, said this was a rare
> thing nowadays because most whites are partially roasted. I garnered
> this information from him directly since I was participating in a
> Spring 2007 Green Tea Tasting which he offered. It's on his web-site,
> as well.
> Thanks so much for piping in here to share information about the
> complexities of good Darjeelings.
> Shen- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

hi shen,

you really make me feel on top the world - thank you very much for all
the appreciation - highly grateful to you.

i have tasted some sun dried white tea but i believe that it tends to
taste a bit harsh if it is sundried and i personally prefer more
delicate white teas which are indoor dried.

regards
ankit