Ok, just so that I have this correct in my mind....

I have my starter in my refrigerator;
Take it out the day before and take, say, 1 cup from it and place in
bowl;
Place original starter back into refrigerator;
Add, say, 1 cup flour and 1 cup warm water to the bowl to get it
active;
Next morning it's bubbly and expanded so I know it's active;
Use, say, 1 cup from this activated starter to for my bread recipe &
bake;
Take original starter from refer, add back the leftover activated
starter from the morning;
Feed this added + original starter and place back into refer.

Sound like a proper procedure?

Thanks for the input to correct as necessary.

Rick in CO

On 5 Dec 2005 10:03:09 -0800, "Rick in CO" >
wrote:

>Feed this added + original starter and place back into refer.

Hi Rick,

Given what you describe, it would make more sense to discard
the starter that you have in the refrigerator and replace it
with the fresh and vigorous starter that you have created.

That said, you might consider doing the following:

When you have some vary active starter, take a spoonful of
it and add flour to it until it won't take any more. It
should have the texture of clay, (or, as was suggested to me
here recently, pasta dough.) Store that lump in the
refrigerator until the next time you bake.


The very stiff dough will last far longer in the
refrigerator than would the starter mixed to typical
consistency.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

And...To add to Kenneths advise, go to Mikes site,
http://www.sourdoughhome.com/downloads.html#threestage

And download the three stage calculator, and use it to bake your bread
with....Works great!

Bud

Thanks much for your responses! Kenneth, when you make this ball of
clay, approximately how large will it be? Also, what's the best way to
reactivate it when you need to bake bread? Just add more warm water
and more flour until it activates?

Thanks again, you are so helpful.

Rick in CO

What you are doing is kind of a blend.

Two basic methods:

Continuous propagation:

All your starter is going through a cycle of one or more refreshments
until it reaches ripeness. From that last stage, a bit is held back for
the next cycle.

Separate mother cultu

You maintain two cycles, one mother culture which is refreshed in a
longer time cycle independent from the production cycle.

A production cycle is started with some material from the mother culture
and then propagated to production volume.

Doing a mother culture feels somewhat safer because there is a backup -
the mother culture. I've done that in the beginning. Now I do continuous
throughout and keep a history of small amounts < 1 oz for maybe 1/2 year
in the fridge.

Samartha


Rick in CO wrote:
> Ok, just so that I have this correct in my mind....
>
> I have my starter in my refrigerator;
> Take it out the day before and take, say, 1 cup from it and place in
> bowl;
> Place original starter back into refrigerator;
> Add, say, 1 cup flour and 1 cup warm water to the bowl to get it
> active;
> Next morning it's bubbly and expanded so I know it's active;
> Use, say, 1 cup from this activated starter to for my bread recipe &
> bake;
> Take original starter from refer, add back the leftover activated
> starter from the morning;
> Feed this added + original starter and place back into refer.
>
> Sound like a proper procedure?
>
> Thanks for the input to correct as necessary.
>
> Rick in CO
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/ma...food.sourdough
>
>

Samartha,
....
> Doing a mother culture feels somewhat safer because there is a backup -
> the mother culture. I've done that in the beginning. Now I do continuous
> throughout and keep a history of small amounts < 1 oz for maybe 1/2 year
Do you mean that you keep one of those "dough balls" made at some point in
time as your backup?

If yes, that would be neat. Cuz I'm drying samples from time-to-time as
backup. And I'm not yet convinced that they rehydrate as an exact copy of
the original. In particular, I'm not sure that the LB's make the transition
all that well...


TIA,
Dusty
....

On 6 Dec 2005 08:44:01 -0800, "Rick in CO" >
wrote:

>Thanks much for your responses! Kenneth, when you make this ball of
>clay, approximately how large will it be? Also, what's the best way to
>reactivate it when you need to bake bread? Just add more warm water
>and more flour until it activates?
>
>Thanks again, you are so helpful.
>
>Rick in CO

Hi Rick,

The size does not matter much... There are billions of
active cells in a piece the size of a pea. I keep a piece
about the size of a walnut and that is really dictated by
the size of the containers I use. I currently keep three
starters, and have them in 2 OZ. screw top Nalgene plastic
jars of the sort sold for chemists (and also now-a-days in
camping stores.)

When I want to use a starter, I pinch off a small piece
(perhaps the size of a marble) with a spoon and put it in a
plastic container. To that, I add a tablespoon of water. I
soften the small lump a bit, then I add the same weight of
flour as I added water. (Be careful about the "warm" water
approach: If the starter gets above about 110F it will be
killed.) I mix it up, and put it aside. In a few hours, I
have a small amount of active starter. I feed that once or
twice more, and I am ready to bake.

Also note that I do NOT remove all of the starter from the
jar. That's because I don't want to risk something happening
to it and losing it altogether. Only when I have an active
batch do I discard the old "lump" and replace it with a new
one.

All the best, and thanks for your kind comments,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Dusty Bleher wrote:
> Samartha,
> ...
>> Doing a mother culture feels somewhat safer because there is a backup -
>> the mother culture. I've done that in the beginning. Now I do continuous
>> throughout and keep a history of small amounts < 1 oz for maybe 1/2 year

> Do you mean that you keep one of those "dough balls" made at some point in
> time as your backup?

No - just something like a tablespoon from the current starter and that
goes into a 1/2 cup ziploc container. That's with 90 % hydration from
the DM3stage. That's the only backup I have right now.

When the number of containers gets too large, I make chaos sourdough
bread from those samples after a refresher.

> If yes, that would be neat. Cuz I'm drying samples from time-to-time as
> backup. And I'm not yet convinced that they rehydrate as an exact copy of
> the original. In particular, I'm not sure that the LB's make the transition
> all that well...

Yeah - it's tough to tell differences especially if they happen slowly
over time. As long as the bread comes out fine, who cares.

Samartha

Hello Samartha and all;

"Samartha Deva" > wrote in
....
>>> Doing a mother culture feels somewhat safer because there is a backup -
>>> the mother culture. I've done that in the beginning. Now I do continuous
>>> throughout and keep a history of small amounts < 1 oz for maybe 1/2 year
>> Do you mean that you keep one of those "dough balls" made at some point
>> in time as your backup?
> No - just something like a tablespoon from the current starter and that
> goes into a 1/2 cup ziploc container. That's with 90 % hydration from the
> DM3stage. That's the only backup I have right now.
Sorry to be so dense, Samartha, but I'm *still* not following you! I
understood your description of continuous propagation vs. mother culture
propagation. It made perfect sense...and taught me yet another nugget of SD
wisdom. Thanks!

But I don't understand why you make a dough-ball out of an ounce or so, and
keep them for, "... maybe 1/2 year in the fridge.". If not for backup, why?

From your otherwise clear description, it would seem to me that they're
alive and viable for at least as long as 1/2 a year (when on ice). Did I
get that right? Which certainly makes me happy, cuz I send dough-balls to
friends and folks that ask me for one. And I was always worried about them
getting there alive and well enough to work. They have (so far as I know),
but I was always worried that they were nearing the end of their lives
before the recipient got them. Learning that they're viable for 1/2 a year
in the fridge is indeed a point that has value...

> When the number of containers gets too large, I make chaos sourdough bread
> from those samples after a refresher.
Now *that* sounds like my kinda baking...(:-o)!

>> If yes, that would be neat. Cuz I'm drying samples from time-to-time as
>> backup. And I'm not yet convinced that they rehydrate as an exact copy
>> of the original. In particular, I'm not sure that the LB's make the
>> transition all that well...
>
> Yeah - it's tough to tell differences especially if they happen slowly
> over time. As long as the bread comes out fine, who cares.
Roger that! Sure, it's true that as long as they come out they're fine.
But I've tasted considerable differences between different batches with
different starters, and I'm trying to keep current working one as "original"
as I can...and that's not to say that that really matters... Like you said,
if it works, who cares!


L8r all,
Dusty
--
>
> Samartha

Dusty Bleher wrote:
[..]
> But I don't understand why you make a dough-ball out of an ounce or so, and
> keep them for, "... maybe 1/2 year in the fridge.". If not for backup, why?

I try to explain it - haven't thought about it in those terms, it just
happens, because...

When I start the DM3, I need a fairly small amount of starter - 4 g to
make 3400 g 40 % rye dough.

When the starter is ready, I take a small amount - around 1 oz and put
it into a 1/2 cup sealable container. I push the starter down on the
bottom, smooth the surface with a spoon and remove all extra starter
which may stick on the walls and dry out. I also round the outer ring of
the starter, where it touches the wall from the inside downwards so
there is no thin layer on the edge to the container wall which may dry
out. My thinking is that small amounts remaining on the inside walls or
jagged edges of the starter where it meets the wall are drying out and
attract molds.

The starter on the bottom is always moist and if I see a dried edge
somewhere, I work it under. If I take something out to make another
batch, I smoothen the surface again.

There is a minimum amount of starter which can be managed well. The
reason is danger of drying out. The approx. 1 oz amount I can manage
conveniently. Smaller would be more difficult.

So, the amount of starter I keep is determined by the storage method and
handling convenience.

The amount needed is much smaller ~ 12 %. The difference left in the
container is what? Leftover starter which can serve as a backup. I
always use the latest starter for the next step.

It's probably my way of thinking - the leftover small starter amounts
are a side effect and can be used as backup. If I make a backup, the
main focus is on making the backup and not a side effect.

>
>>From your otherwise clear description, it would seem to me that they're
> alive and viable for at least as long as 1/2 a year (when on ice). Did I
> get that right?

Yes, I used one of those containers which was 6 month old and it came
back fine. But that's full grain rye fed starter.

> Which certainly makes me happy, cuz I send dough-balls to
> friends and folks that ask me for one.

That's a different story. I think you are not that crazy to sent them
inside a fridge.

> And I was always worried about them
> getting there alive and well enough to work. They have (so far as I know),
> but I was always worried that they were nearing the end of their lives
> before the recipient got them. Learning that they're viable for 1/2 a year
> in the fridge is indeed a point that has value...

If you sent the fridge with it. Are you really doing that? My respect!

When I transport starters, I disguise them as face masks, disperse a
small amount of starter in coarse flour - one never knows with the
custom regulations and sniffing dogs.

[..]
> But I've tasted considerable differences between different batches with
> different starters, and I'm trying to keep current working one as "original"
> as I can...and that's not to say that that really matters... Like you said,
> if it works, who cares!

If you use only one starter, it saves you comparing.

Samartha