I have been working on my starter for weeks. I trashed two beginning
starters because I thought they were bad (looking back they were not; I just
had the mixture too wet). Anyway, I grind my own hard white wheat and my
starters are made up of that and water. Nite before last, I mixed a batter
using a regular bread recipe that calls for yeast.

BUT, I used my homemade starter instead of the yeast in the recipe. I did
feed the starter well all day before I mixed the batter. Once mixed, I put
the batter(bread) in the refrigerator immediately and it sat in there for
about 36 hours. I took it out today and let it sit in the warm oven for 5
or 6 hours and low and behold, it doubled in size! I could not believe the
it rose since it had been kept cold and had not been handled like most of
the sourdought recipes that I have found. This is a good thing for me since
I can mix one night and not have to rise the bread until I get time and
don't have to keep 'feeding' the batter every few hours just to get it to
rise.

Finally, I feel encouraged. And I feel like that I am at least reducing the
phytates down to some extent even though the battter is not warm for the
entire bread making process.

John

HI John, I didn't know what phytates were so I looked it up.

"Phytates are phosphorus compounds found primarily in cereal grains,
legumes, and nuts. They bind with minerals such as iron, calcium, and
zinc and interfere with their absorption in the body.
Phytates/phytic acid are the storage form of phosphorus bound to
inositol in the fiber of raw whole grains, legumes, seeds, and nuts.
Although these foods have a high phosphorus content, the phosphates in
phytates are not released through the digestive process. Phytates,
particularly in such raw foods as bran, are a concern because they can
bind a portion of the iron, zinc, and calcium in foods, making the
minerals unavailable for absorption.

Phytic acid occurs in unsprouted grains, seeds, and legumes, and is
particularly rich in the bran. Although these foods have a high
phosphate content, the phosphate in phytates is not released by
digestion. When bread is leavened by yeast, enzymes degrade phytic acid
and phytates pose no problem. Phytic acid is also destroyed during
baking and food processing.

Enzymes, called phytases, destroy phytates during certain food
processes such as: the yeast-raising of dough, the sprouting of seeds,
grains, legumes, the roasting of nuts, presoaking beans, cooking,
fermentation as in tempeh, miso, and natto, combining acidic foods with
zinc-rich foods, etc.

Not everyone believes that phytates are a bad thing. Although phytates
do bind with minerals, they may actually be preventing the formation of
free radicals, thereby keeping the minerals at safe levels in the body.
Phytates also have a role to play in cell growth and can move excess
minerals out of the body. Stephen Holt, MD, a gastroenterologist and
author of The Soy Revolution: The Food of the Next Millennium (M. Evans
and Company, 1998), says phytates shield us from dangerously high
levels of minerals such as iron. Some animal studies have suggested
that phytates stop the growth of cancerous tumors. In Earl Mindell's
Soy Miracle, he writes that phytates can bind with minerals that may
feed tumors.

Phytates are generally found in foods high in fiber. Since fiber-rich
foods protect against colon and breast cancers, it is now thought that
they are the protective agent in the fiber. It appears that, by binding
minerals in the intestines, phytates inhibit the cancer process,
especially when it comes to iron. Iron generates free radicals, and
phytates may be keeping the mineral balance at a safe level within the
body. Phytates act as an antioxidant. Scientists are beginning to
express concern over excess iron in the body for this reason. Excessive
iron is also known to increase the risk of heart disease. Even a small
amount of phytates in food can reduce iron absorption by half, but the
effect is less marked if a meal is supplemented with ascorbic acid,
which can also help the absorption of zinc and calcium.

Phytates are also known to help prevent cancer by enhancing the immune
system. Phytates may increase the activity of natural killer cells
which attack and destroy cancer cells and tumors. By working directly
to control cell growth, phytates may be an ideal protective agent
against a wide range of cancers, carrying excess minerals out of the
body, thereby protecting it from a potential overload. Fiber, along
with its associated phytates, also provides benefits by regulating the
absorption of glucose from starch."

Is there a reason why you're concerned about them?

Take care

Jim

On 5 Nov 2005 05:04:32 -0800, "jimbob" >
wrote:

>HI John, I didn't know what phytates were so I looked it up.
>

>"Phytates are generally found in foods high in fiber. Since fiber-rich
>foods protect against colon and breast cancers, it is now thought that
>they are the protective agent in the fiber."

I do not know how old your article is, but it has been disproved that
fiber protects against/inhibits colon or breast cancer.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/fiber.html
"For years, Americans have been told to consume a high-fiber diet to
lower the risk of colon cancer - mainly on the basis of results from
relatively small studies. Larger and better-designed studies have
failed to show a link between fiber and colon cancer. One of these - a
Harvard study that followed over 80,000 female nurses for 16 years -
found that dietary fiber was not strongly associated with a reduced
risk for either colon cancer or polyps ."

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/co...ract/159/8/732
"This study also confirmed the lack of an overall association between
intake of fiber and fiber types and breast cancer risk observed in
other prospective studies. "

Boron

Is there a reason why you're concerned about them?

I am concerned because of everthing I have read and what I understand about
eating whole grain breads without first soaking the berries or by using
sourdough starter to reduce the phytic acid. I hear many differing opinions
about phytates, but mainly the opinions don't refer to the fact that phyates
are a good thing, but rather how to rid the grains of phytates before
consumption of the bread. I am not a scientist, but I want to eat as
healthy as I can.

I do know that consuming whole grain bread made with bakers yeast with the
entire process of grinding the wheat to 'ready to eat' in just about 3 hours
causes me intestinal problems, but sourdough breads or even breads that have
soaked or allowed to rise for a day or so, are much better tasting and cause
no problems and are much easier to digest. And they taste VERY good on top
of that!

"jimbob" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> HI John, I didn't know what phytates were so I looked it up.
>
> "Phytates are phosphorus compounds found primarily in cereal grains,
> legumes, and nuts. They bind with minerals such as iron, calcium, and
> zinc and interfere with their absorption in the body.
> Phytates/phytic acid are the storage form of phosphorus bound to
> inositol in the fiber of raw whole grains, legumes, seeds, and nuts.
> Although these foods have a high phosphorus content, the phosphates in
> phytates are not released through the digestive process. Phytates,
> particularly in such raw foods as bran, are a concern because they can
> bind a portion of the iron, zinc, and calcium in foods, making the
> minerals unavailable for absorption.
>
> Phytic acid occurs in unsprouted grains, seeds, and legumes, and is
> particularly rich in the bran. Although these foods have a high
> phosphate content, the phosphate in phytates is not released by
> digestion. When bread is leavened by yeast, enzymes degrade phytic acid
> and phytates pose no problem. Phytic acid is also destroyed during
> baking and food processing.
>
> Enzymes, called phytases, destroy phytates during certain food
> processes such as: the yeast-raising of dough, the sprouting of seeds,
> grains, legumes, the roasting of nuts, presoaking beans, cooking,
> fermentation as in tempeh, miso, and natto, combining acidic foods with
> zinc-rich foods, etc.
>
> Not everyone believes that phytates are a bad thing. Although phytates
> do bind with minerals, they may actually be preventing the formation of
> free radicals, thereby keeping the minerals at safe levels in the body.
> Phytates also have a role to play in cell growth and can move excess
> minerals out of the body. Stephen Holt, MD, a gastroenterologist and
> author of The Soy Revolution: The Food of the Next Millennium (M. Evans
> and Company, 1998), says phytates shield us from dangerously high
> levels of minerals such as iron. Some animal studies have suggested
> that phytates stop the growth of cancerous tumors. In Earl Mindell's
> Soy Miracle, he writes that phytates can bind with minerals that may
> feed tumors.
>
> Phytates are generally found in foods high in fiber. Since fiber-rich
> foods protect against colon and breast cancers, it is now thought that
> they are the protective agent in the fiber. It appears that, by binding
> minerals in the intestines, phytates inhibit the cancer process,
> especially when it comes to iron. Iron generates free radicals, and
> phytates may be keeping the mineral balance at a safe level within the
> body. Phytates act as an antioxidant. Scientists are beginning to
> express concern over excess iron in the body for this reason. Excessive
> iron is also known to increase the risk of heart disease. Even a small
> amount of phytates in food can reduce iron absorption by half, but the
> effect is less marked if a meal is supplemented with ascorbic acid,
> which can also help the absorption of zinc and calcium.
>
> Phytates are also known to help prevent cancer by enhancing the immune
> system. Phytates may increase the activity of natural killer cells
> which attack and destroy cancer cells and tumors. By working directly
> to control cell growth, phytates may be an ideal protective agent
> against a wide range of cancers, carrying excess minerals out of the
> body, thereby protecting it from a potential overload. Fiber, along
> with its associated phytates, also provides benefits by regulating the
> absorption of glucose from starch."
>
> Is there a reason why you're concerned about them?
>
> Take care
>
> Jim
>

HI Boron,
This is the link,
http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C212360.html

It says last updated Nov 2005. I read New Scientist every week and have
grown numb to what scientists call fact. It's often one sided and out
of context, or at least the reporting of the results is. For example,
one study on the effects of caffein was carried out by force feeding
pregnant rats the equivalent of 200 cups of coffee per gulp. Hardly any
wonder then that it was found not to be helpful to the pregnancy. lol.
Anyway. I try to just eat a varied, organic as possible diet and try
not to take anything too seriously, most of all the rubbish my mind
spouts. lol.

Take care,

Jim

On 5 Nov 2005 12:24:41 -0800, "jimbob" >
wrote:

>HI Boron,
>This is the link,
>http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C212360.html
>
>It says last updated Nov 2005. I read New Scientist every week and have
>grown numb to what scientists call fact. It's often one sided and out
>of context, or at least the reporting of the results is. For example,
>one study on the effects of caffein was carried out by force feeding
>pregnant rats the equivalent of 200 cups of coffee per gulp. Hardly any
>wonder then that it was found not to be helpful to the pregnancy. lol.
>Anyway. I try to just eat a varied, organic as possible diet and try
>not to take anything too seriously, most of all the rubbish my mind
>spouts. lol.
>
>Take care,
>
>Jim


99% of the chatter online about phytates is from fruitcake web pages.
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

Boron

JP wrote:
> Is there a reason why you're concerned about them?
[...]
> I do know that consuming whole grain bread made with bakers yeast with the
> entire process of grinding the wheat to 'ready to eat' in just about 3 hours
> causes me intestinal problems, but sourdough breads or even breads that have
> soaked or allowed to rise for a day or so, are much better tasting and cause
> no problems and are much easier to digest.

.... it showed that breakdown of phytic acid in yeast doughs stops
practically after 1 1/2 hours (reduction to 20% - 48 %) whereas the
breakdown in sourdough continues and reaches after 8 hours a complete
reduction. (Lonkhuysen and Van Genderen, 1984)

Samartha