Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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Old 23-05-2005, 05:55 AM
doughwizard
 
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Default Quarry tile question

I recommend against using a baking sheet. Put the bread on a
stone...you will get much better results. I've tried both ways and the
"baking sheet" method is a poor imitation of baking on a stone...

You can get cheap baking stones that are great for bread at target
walmart etc....no need to buy quarry tiles or anything like that.


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Old 23-05-2005, 06:29 AM
Mike Avery
 
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doughwizard wrote:

I recommend against using a baking sheet. Put the bread on a
stone...you will get much better results. I've tried both ways and the
"baking sheet" method is a poor imitation of baking on a stone...

You can get cheap baking stones that are great for bread at target
walmart etc....no need to buy quarry tiles or anything like that.



I half agree with you. If you look at Hammelman's book, you'll see
pictures of bread baked on stones and baked on stones on pans. The pans
interfered with heat flow enough that the bread wasn't as nice. On the
tiles is the way to go, just as you said.

As to cheap baking stones at Target, etc, well, maybe we both need to
check prices.

At a flooring shop, I can get enough tiles to tile both racks in my oven
for less than $5.00. And, since they are individual pieces, if one
piece breaks, they are easy to replace.

A quick check at the target web site showed a pizza baking stone set for
$14.99. This is round, which is less desireable for baking bread, and
will only cover one rack. To poorly cover both racks from Target is
$30.00. To cover them well with quarry tiles is less than $5.00.

Mike


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Old 23-05-2005, 06:39 AM
Dusty Bleher
 
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"doughwizard" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recommend against using a baking sheet. Put the bread on a
stone...you will get much better results. I've tried both ways and the
"baking sheet" method is a poor imitation of baking on a stone...

Nonsense! That's just ONE opinion.

You can get great results on a regular, ordinary baking sheet. You just
have to be a little bit better...(:-o)!

Dusty



You can get cheap baking stones that are great for bread at target
walmart etc....no need to buy quarry tiles or anything like that.



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Old 23-05-2005, 03:35 PM
Dick Adams
 
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Default


"Mike Avery" wrote in message =
news:mailman.7.1116826190.15451.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...

... If you look at Hammelman's book, you'll see pictures=20
of bread baked on stones and baked on stones on pans. The=20
pans interfered with heat flow enough that the bread wasn't as nice.


Although ceramics can be designed for relatively good heat transfer
capability, a thin slab of aluminum is real hard to beat.

If loaves baked on stones/tiles/(whatever) looked better than ones baked =

on aluminum (assuming that is what you are trying to say), it seems that
some other explanation should be sought.

Mostly, as I understand it, the purpose of the "stone" is to hold heat,=20
and transfer it at an optimum rate to the bottom of the doughloaf. (In
fact, the "stone" does nothing for the sides and top of the loaf, and
can shield or scorch the bottom depending on circumstances.)

Book authors (and web-site hosts) have a job filling pages. For that
they tend to promote bread baking to a very complex and ethereal=20
experience, not to mention philosophical, historical, poetical,=20
bibliographical, etc. (Very little scientifical...)

Now, if you are talking about pans, and not sheets (appropriate to the
prior thread discussion), it is certainly true that pan loaves look =
different
than unrestrainedly-baked loaves (sheet- or stone baked).

But, by the time the loaves are eaten, they all look pretty much the=20
same.=20

--
Dicky

P.S. One "m" in Hamel, just two altogether in Hamelman


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Old 23-05-2005, 09:01 PM
Roy
 
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(Very little scientifical...)
Nonsense! That's just ONE opinion.


I agree, but most bread scientist are focused on bread and dough
chemistry and less in the physics of the baking process.
IMO They are not less interested in the mechanics of heat transfer
from the oven floor to the dough. There is nothing spectacular in such;
and it does not matter if it follows vaguely, Hooke's and
,Maxwell,principles of spring and fluid mechanics
But a few scientist have looked at the rheology( the outgrowth of the
fluid physics, the science of the deformation of matter ) and how it
can be applied to the dough but was more focueed on the dough mixing
and fermentation process..
Besides there is nothing new to learn about what has been known by
tradesmen for years.
But in my limited knowledge in dough physics (if that is the right
term)...I can see simply this way.
It is notable that...
Baking bread dough on a stone( or in the ceramic oven floor) results
in rounded bottoms than if baked on metal pans.
You will notice that the bottom surface diameter is less in oven bottom
loaves than on baking sheet versions.
A boule , a baguette and a batard definitely looks better if baked that
way.
It is just when you load the loaves with a peel or a setter to the oven
floor the dough piece absorbs the heat immediately making it expand
vigorously in virtually all directions resulting in rounded symmetrical
profile.
Where as in pans the metal will absorb the heat first which gradually
transfer that to the dough resulting that the dough being a plastic
substance will deform proportionally with the increase in heat
absorption (until the point it sets).Therefore the dough is partly
restricted in its expansion.
The dough viscosity in proximity to the pan surface will tend to
lessen ,attain a liquid state for very short time ( before it
sets)making it flow and flattten at the same time the heat absorbed is
conveyed gradually to other areas of the dough piece.making it expand
as well.
That flattening effect never happens in the oven floor baked loaves.
Therefore the dough piece behaves( slightly) differently on an oven
floor or stone if compared if its on a metal surface.
Besides the metal surface is smoother and permits such kind of short
time fluid flow..
It is also enhanced if the pans are greased.
In other cases if the pans are heavily dusted with cornmeal, semolina
or similar things the particles of cereal in contact with the dough
surface and the metal will tend to inhibit fluid flow to prevent it
slightly from sliding( but not totally,)
But still if you look at the finished dough symmetry its still not
look the same as the oven floor baked loaves.
Roy



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