I have experimented with trying to get good sourdough. Commentary and
correction of terminolgy will be appreciated. I hope I do not ramble too
much. In order to compare results, I have only attempted bread with Gold
Medal Bread flour.

1. Feeding and storage.

The La Brea Bakery book suggests very frequent feeding. That is not really
practical for me because I only bake a bread every two or three days.

I use all of the starter when I bake a bread. I take the starter out of the
refigerator and warm it in the microwave oven without cooking it. What
remains sticking to my plastic container is used to generate new starter. I
add a cup of warm water to my starter container and a cup of bread flour and
stir a bit. I let it sit out for about 12 hours overnight, I put it into the
refrigerator while the microflora is still eating the flour. This practice,
I believe, helps the dough (Is that called sponge?) rise more rapidly. In
the morning, the bread is already partly risen.

2. Preparing the dough.

Using the procedure above, I sprinkle about 1 TBS of sugar onto the starter
to aid the rise. I also sprinkle about 1/2 tsp salt in. I have found by
experiment that I need to add about 2-1/3 cups of bread flour to get decent
dough. I also throw in other seeds and cracked wheat. Some vegetable oil
helps lubricate the kneading action.

I do notice that the dough ball starts out being rather stiff and powdery.
As the kneading continues, I get a decent dough ball spinning on the blade.
What I do not understand is why further kneading can make the dough much to
sticky. That is, it seems like I have too little water at the start and too
much at the end. Any suggestions to help will be appreciated. As a practical
solution, I just stop the kneading before that portion of the cycle is
complete.

I take the dough and place it into a ceramic bread pan moistened with spray
oil. Then I play the part of a crazed killer and stab the dough randomly at
least 50 times with a fork. This prevents a gas dome from building up in the
dough during an extended rise. It also gives a pleasing surface texture. I
guess this is the equivalent of slashing.

3. Completion of the rise and baking.

Typically, the bread has not risen enough overnight. It is fairly cool in
the house this time of the year. As the weather warms up, this may change. I
warm up the oven to about 105°F and place the dough in it. I turn the oven
light. Unfortunately, my Profile GE range has not made it easy to let bread
be risen. After an hour or so, the bread appears to be ready for baking. I
do so. The results have been excellent.


I think that refreshing the starter the way I do makes it much more vigorous
that using a couple of tablespoons each time I bake a loaf. Moreover, by not
letting all the flour get consumed before placing th starter back into the
refrigerator means that yeast fermentation does not have to star at a low
level and then build up. Moreover, each batch of starter is much like the
next one.

Bill

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 05:41:11 GMT, Repeating Rifle
> wrote:

>I use all of the starter when I bake a bread. I take the starter out of the
>refigerator and warm it in the microwave oven without cooking it.

Hi Bill,

I don't know what you mean by the above... Do you turn the
nuke on?

Thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Repeating Rifle" > wrote in message=20
...

> ... I play the part of a crazed killer and stab the dough randomly at
> least 50 times with a fork ... The results have been excellent ...

With each post, some new little tidbit of information takes its place
among the archived wisdom.

Actually, I have been thinking lately that the answers given here are
somewhat iffy and equivocal. I wonder if there is some easier way.

For instance, has anyone come up with a sourdough spread which
converts any bread upon which it is spread to sourdough?

I liked the idea presented in another thread that there is some stuff
you can get from Germany (Bio Vollkornroggen-Sauerteig) that you
just add, as a powder, to your dough, in order to get a sourdough loaf.
But it seems to be meeting some opposition. I guess some people are
just resistant to new ideas.

(KAFlours, I think, has something like that, but it does not appear to=20
do Vollkornroggen.)

--
DickA

Dick Adams wrote:
>
> For instance, has anyone come up with a sourdough spread which
> converts any bread upon which it is spread to sourdough?
>
I recently made an onion/jalepeno/basalmic vinegar marmalade that
has such a flavor that it doesn't matter what kind of bread that
you use. If you wanted to call it sourdough, nobody could call
you wrong. It was quite good when I used it in *small* dabs to
perk up a cheese pizza.

You had to ask.

Regards,

Charles
--
Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

I would love the recipe for that. You may email me private.


--
Ron Anderson
A1 Sewing Machine
PO Box 60
Sand Lake, NY 12153
518-469-5133
http://www.a1sewingmachine.com
"Charles Perry" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Dick Adams wrote:
>>
>> For instance, has anyone come up with a sourdough spread which
>> converts any bread upon which it is spread to sourdough?
>>
> I recently made an onion/jalepeno/basalmic vinegar marmalade that
> has such a flavor that it doesn't matter what kind of bread that
> you use. If you wanted to call it sourdough, nobody could call
> you wrong. It was quite good when I used it in *small* dabs to
> perk up a cheese pizza.
>
> You had to ask.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles
> --
> Charles Perry
> Reply to:
>
> ** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

Dick,.... yes there is such 'additive or whatever you call it that when
you add to the dough in small amount you can make a sourdough out if
it. Le Saffre in France( the manufacturer of Saf yeast is one known
supplier of such item. But in order to use it properly you willl have
to add bakers yeast in order that the dough will rise properly.
The same thing also will be expected with similar products made in
Germany.
I am certain that such material will be subject to criticism and
opposition from this group.<g>.
Roy

in article , Kenneth at
wrote on 3/11/05 3:49 AM:

> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 05:41:11 GMT, Repeating Rifle
> > wrote:
>
>> I use all of the starter when I bake a bread. I take the starter out of the
>> refigerator and warm it in the microwave oven without cooking it.
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> I don't know what you mean by the above... Do you turn the
> nuke on?

I have about 1-1/2 cup of cold starter. I stir it up and run it in the
microwave oven for about 30 seconds.

Bill

Repeating Rifle wrote:

>
> I have about 1-1/2 cup of cold starter. I stir it up and run it in the
> microwave oven for about 30 seconds.
>
Tsss - how cruel!

Ever put a mouse in the microwave and watched what happens?

Imagine how all those LB's feel if you do that?

This ng is definitely going downhill lately.

Samartha

Roy wrote:
> Dick,.... yes there is such 'additive or whatever you call it that when
> you add to the dough in small amount you can make a sourdough out if
> it. Le Saffre in France( the manufacturer of Saf yeast is one known
> supplier of such item. But in order to use it properly you willl have
> to add bakers yeast in order that the dough will rise properly.
> The same thing also will be expected with similar products made in
> Germany.
> I am certain that such material will be subject to criticism and
> opposition from this group.<g>.

Not really - I fully encourage you to put souring agents in your bread
as you see fit and call it sourdough. If you don't notice any
difference, you can always blame it on the unmanageability of sourdough.

But that's only me - other's may be deeply offended by your words and -
you know how dangerous it can be these days.

But who knows, maybe that's not even necessary in USA to have any
souring in the product. Looks to me that even the association to another
product with sourdough and similar shape is sufficient and will probably
hold up in US courts if anyone with enough cash cared to follow through.

There is this "harry's Premium Snacks ALL NATURAL SOURDOUGH PRETZELS"
(capitalization from label)

Ingredients: Unbleached wheat flour, expeller pressed corn oil and/or
lecithin, malt, salt, honey, yeast and sodium bicarbonate.

I am kind of at a loss here - where is the sourdough if not in
association or fantasy or is sourdough now spelled sodium bicarbonate?


Samartha


PS.: Schuenemann Treu talks about "additions" but mentions that they are
no match for the good old 3-Stage.

And yes, we all need chemicals to keep up the quota of every 2. man and
3. woman getting cancer in their lifetime nowadays.

Samartha Deva wrote:

> Repeating Rifle wrote:
>
>>
>> I have about 1-1/2 cup of cold starter. I stir it up and run it in the
>> microwave oven for about 30 seconds.
>>
> Tsss - how cruel!
>
> Ever put a mouse in the microwave and watched what happens?
>
> Imagine how all those LB's feel if you do that?
>
> This ng is definitely going downhill lately.
>
> Samartha
Too many people writing and not enough people reading.

Joe Umstead

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:06:09 -0700, Samartha Deva
> wrote:

>Repeating Rifle wrote:
>
>>
>> I have about 1-1/2 cup of cold starter. I stir it up and run it in the
>> microwave oven for about 30 seconds.
>>
>Tsss - how cruel!
>
>Ever put a mouse in the microwave and watched what happens?
>
>Imagine how all those LB's feel if you do that?
For once, I will have to disagree with you , Samartha. I use
the microwave in winter to heat my freshly mixed dough. Always on
defrost, always for 30 seconds or so, just enough to heat the dough
10-15 c (to get up to around 30c)
The little bugs don't seem to notice at all, and it halves
rising times.
Just try it and see.
[]'s
Am
>
>This ng is definitely going downhill lately.
>
>Samartha
>

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:58:11 -0300, amateur <amateur@home>
wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 17:06:09 -0700, Samartha Deva
> wrote:
>
>>Repeating Rifle wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I have about 1-1/2 cup of cold starter. I stir it up and run it in the
>>> microwave oven for about 30 seconds.
>>>
>>Tsss - how cruel!
>>
>>Ever put a mouse in the microwave and watched what happens?
>>
>>Imagine how all those LB's feel if you do that?
> For once, I will have to disagree with you , Samartha. I use
>the microwave in winter to heat my freshly mixed dough. Always on
>defrost, always for 30 seconds or so, just enough to heat the dough
>10-15 c (to get up to around 30c)
> The little bugs don't seem to notice at all, and it halves
>rising times.
> Just try it and see.
> []'s
> Am
>>
>>This ng is definitely going downhill lately.
>>
>>Samartha
>>

Howdy,

Why do you want to want to heat your freshly mixed dough? I
ask because generally the cooler dough will ferment more
slowly producing better tastes.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

=20
"Kenneth" > wrote in message =
...

> [ ... ] (Thread history deleted)

> Why do you want to want to heat your freshly mixed dough? I
> ask because generally the cooler dough will ferment more
> slowly producing better tastes.

Howdy, Kenneth,

Why do you think that cooler, slower fermentation will produce
better tastes?

--
DickA

P.S. Why do you think you need to requote the whole thread history
with each post?

>And yes, we all need chemicals to keep up the quota of every 2. man
and
>3. woman getting cancer in their lifetime nowadays.

Nope...... they does not contain any chemicals at all; but made by the
natural fermentaton and concentrated by a patented freeze drying
process maintaining the viability of all existing sourdough organisms.
They can be used to make bread (also) without added yeast but you have
to disperse the powder in 30-35 degree water then add the other dough
ingredients , ferment for 24 hours, divide, mold ,proof and bake and
the bread comes out tasting like 100% naturally fermented 3 stage
sourdough..
Roy

BTW thati is 30-35 degree C.
Roy

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 09:19:25 -0500, Kenneth
> wrote:
.....CUT....
>> I use
>>the microwave in winter to heat my freshly mixed dough. Always on
>>defrost, always for 30 seconds or so, just enough to heat the dough
>>10-15 c (to get up to around 30c)
>> The little bugs don't seem to notice at all, and it halves
>>rising times.
>> Just try it and see.
>> []'s
>> Am

>Howdy,
>
>Why do you want to want to heat your freshly mixed dough? I
>ask because generally the cooler dough will ferment more
>slowly producing better tastes.
>
>All the best,
Sometimes long rises do not coincide with my work schedule. (I
works shifts in emergency).
I am just pointing out that microwave heat, moderately
applied, does not kill the bugs at all, it fact, it speeds them on.
[]'s

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 20:35:38 -0300, amateur <amateur@home>
wrote:

> Sometimes long rises do not coincide with my work schedule. (I
>works shifts in emergency).
> I am just pointing out that microwave heat, moderately
>applied, does not kill the bugs at all, it fact, it speeds them on.
> []'s

Howdy,

That makes sense. I agree completely.

Thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."