Jason,

at one point, I had a disgustingly thin crust for some time because I
sprayed water on top of the loafs during baking a couple of times, mostly
in the beginning. My reasoning at this point was to allow better rise by
keeping the crust soft. (Don't know if this was right, the thin crust sure
was not worth it.)

Then I figured that the effect of cooling the loafs by spraying was the
cause - I stopped it and went better - thicker crust.

Nowadays, I close the vent holes of the oven with duct tape and keep a
metal bowl with boiling water between the heat coils on the bottom
(electrical oven) during baking.

When the water gets low in the bowl, I replenish with boiling water and let
the oven heat up again; this happens between batches - one comes out, water
in, reheat the oven until max and when it's reached, next batch goes in.

The oven is so full of hot steam that I get almost burnt in the face by
opening the door and the steam comes out. There is a lot of better heat
transfer to the loafs from the steam.

I have been thinking about the external steam generation but currently,
there is no need for it. I get pretty thick crusts especially by increasing
the heat for the last 5 - 10 minutes to max temperature again to get ready
for the next batch.

Your case may be somewhat different because you have a gas oven and can't
close the vent but I think that the burning gas produces some steam as well.

I think you could benefit from using baking stones (if you don't) - 1" clay
tiles - two layers heated up with a small bowl of boiling water in a bottom
corner of your oven and no spraying could do the trick.

For what it's worth.

Samartha


At 08:48 PM 8/15/2004, you wrote:
>I made some sourdough ciabattas last week using Silverton's recipe. (I
>have previously made them regular, instead of sourdough, and i have
>the same problem). The flavor was excellent, but i can't seem to get
>my crust thick. I had a pan of water in the bottom of the oven, as
>well as spritzing ever couple minutes for the first 8-10 mins. The
>crust is very thin. What can i do to increase it?
>
>jason
>_______________________________________________
>Rec.food.sourdough mailing list

>http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/ma...food.sourdough


remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

Thanks Samartha, i do use quarry tiles which i bake directly on, and i
did have a pan of water boiling away in the bottom (after i preheated
for 45 minutes or so at 500 deg.), and i also spritzed. Next time i'll
tyr without spritzing and just having a tray of water. If that doesn't
work i might consider a cheap pressure cooker method ala Kenneth.
I ask again, are we SURE that my problem is from lack of steam? I'd
hate to be futzing with the steam if that isn't the problem.

thanks
jason


> Jason,
>
> at one point, I had a disgustingly thin crust for some time because I
> sprayed water on top of the loafs during baking a couple of times, mostly
> in the beginning. My reasoning at this point was to allow better rise by
> keeping the crust soft. (Don't know if this was right, the thin crust sure
> was not worth it.)
>
> Then I figured that the effect of cooling the loafs by spraying was the
> cause - I stopped it and went better - thicker crust.
>
> Nowadays, I close the vent holes of the oven with duct tape and keep a
> metal bowl with boiling water between the heat coils on the bottom
> (electrical oven) during baking.
>
> When the water gets low in the bowl, I replenish with boiling water and let
> the oven heat up again; this happens between batches - one comes out, water
> in, reheat the oven until max and when it's reached, next batch goes in.
>
> The oven is so full of hot steam that I get almost burnt in the face by
> opening the door and the steam comes out. There is a lot of better heat
> transfer to the loafs from the steam.
>
> I have been thinking about the external steam generation but currently,
> there is no need for it. I get pretty thick crusts especially by increasing
> the heat for the last 5 - 10 minutes to max temperature again to get ready
> for the next batch.
>
> Your case may be somewhat different because you have a gas oven and can't
> close the vent but I think that the burning gas produces some steam as well.
>
> I think you could benefit from using baking stones (if you don't) - 1" clay
> tiles - two layers heated up with a small bowl of boiling water in a bottom
> corner of your oven and no spraying could do the trick.
>
> For what it's worth.
>
> Samartha
>
>

Hi Jason,

At 12:31 PM 8/17/2004, you wrote:

>[..]
>I ask again, are we SURE that my problem is from lack of steam? I'd
>hate to be futzing with the steam if that isn't the problem.

I surely don't know for "SURE" what the full cause of your situation could
be. Only thing I know for sure that in my case, the frequent spraying of
the bread in the oven caused thin crust and not doing it with lots of hot
steam in the oven with higher temperature gives me crusts I want.

In any case, don't futz, if you don't enjoy, that makes bad bread karma and
who wants to eat bread made by unhappy bakers anyway? Who knows, maybe the
real cause of stomach ulcers is from eating bread made by unhappy bakers?

Samartha


remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

"jason molinari" > wrote in message =
om...

> I'd hate to be futzing with the steam if that isn't the problem.

One should witness the steaming process in a wood-fired- or
commercial deck oven. It is not something which is easy to
re-create in a home oven. (Kenneth could help us a lot with
understanding that difference since it would appear that he has
both an ordinary- and a commercial (steamed) oven in his=20
kitchen.)

I could get pretty good steam in our Kenmore gas oven, but
it did not seem worth the inconvenience. Please left-click on
the line(s) below to bring up some evidence for that:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DFBMv8.33991$Rw2.2561012@bgtnsc05-n=
ews.ops.worldnet.att.net

But very fine bread can be made without any "steam" at all, nor=20
preheated stone (nor preheated anything). See, for instance:
http://home.att.net/~dick.adams/EZSDLoaves/index.html

Of course, that is not for the huge holes and the real thick
chewy crusts. That is where the heat and steam of a commercial
or artisanal oven comes in very handy.

--=20
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname> at bigfoot dot com
___________________
Sourdough FAQ guide at=20
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html
=20

"jason molinari" > wrote in message =
om...

> I'd hate to be futzing with the steam if that isn't the problem.

One should witness the steaming process in a wood-fired- or
commercial deck oven. It is not something which is easy to
re-create in a home oven. (Kenneth could help us a lot with
understanding that difference since it would appear that he has
both an ordinary- and a commercial (steamed) oven in his=20
kitchen.)

I could get pretty good steam in our Kenmore gas oven, but
it did not seem worth the inconvenience. Please left-click on
the line(s) below to bring up some evidence for that:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3DFBMv8.33991$Rw2.2561012@bgtnsc05-n=
ews.ops.worldnet.att.net

But very fine bread can be made without any "steam" at all, nor=20
preheated stone (nor preheated anything). See, for instance:
http://home.att.net/~dick.adams/EZSDLoaves/index.html

Of course, that is not for the huge holes and the real thick
chewy crusts. That is where the heat and steam of a commercial
or artisanal oven comes in very handy.

--=20
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname> at bigfoot dot com
___________________
Sourdough FAQ guide at=20
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html
=20

Hi Jason,

At 12:31 PM 8/17/2004, you wrote:

>[..]
>I ask again, are we SURE that my problem is from lack of steam? I'd
>hate to be futzing with the steam if that isn't the problem.

I surely don't know for "SURE" what the full cause of your situation could
be. Only thing I know for sure that in my case, the frequent spraying of
the bread in the oven caused thin crust and not doing it with lots of hot
steam in the oven with higher temperature gives me crusts I want.

In any case, don't futz, if you don't enjoy, that makes bad bread karma and
who wants to eat bread made by unhappy bakers anyway? Who knows, maybe the
real cause of stomach ulcers is from eating bread made by unhappy bakers?

Samartha


remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

Thanks Samartha, i do use quarry tiles which i bake directly on, and i
did have a pan of water boiling away in the bottom (after i preheated
for 45 minutes or so at 500 deg.), and i also spritzed. Next time i'll
tyr without spritzing and just having a tray of water. If that doesn't
work i might consider a cheap pressure cooker method ala Kenneth.
I ask again, are we SURE that my problem is from lack of steam? I'd
hate to be futzing with the steam if that isn't the problem.

thanks
jason


> Jason,
>
> at one point, I had a disgustingly thin crust for some time because I
> sprayed water on top of the loafs during baking a couple of times, mostly
> in the beginning. My reasoning at this point was to allow better rise by
> keeping the crust soft. (Don't know if this was right, the thin crust sure
> was not worth it.)
>
> Then I figured that the effect of cooling the loafs by spraying was the
> cause - I stopped it and went better - thicker crust.
>
> Nowadays, I close the vent holes of the oven with duct tape and keep a
> metal bowl with boiling water between the heat coils on the bottom
> (electrical oven) during baking.
>
> When the water gets low in the bowl, I replenish with boiling water and let
> the oven heat up again; this happens between batches - one comes out, water
> in, reheat the oven until max and when it's reached, next batch goes in.
>
> The oven is so full of hot steam that I get almost burnt in the face by
> opening the door and the steam comes out. There is a lot of better heat
> transfer to the loafs from the steam.
>
> I have been thinking about the external steam generation but currently,
> there is no need for it. I get pretty thick crusts especially by increasing
> the heat for the last 5 - 10 minutes to max temperature again to get ready
> for the next batch.
>
> Your case may be somewhat different because you have a gas oven and can't
> close the vent but I think that the burning gas produces some steam as well.
>
> I think you could benefit from using baking stones (if you don't) - 1" clay
> tiles - two layers heated up with a small bowl of boiling water in a bottom
> corner of your oven and no spraying could do the trick.
>
> For what it's worth.
>
> Samartha
>
>

Thanks Samartha, i do use quarry tiles which i bake directly on, and i
did have a pan of water boiling away in the bottom (after i preheated
for 45 minutes or so at 500 deg.), and i also spritzed. Next time i'll
tyr without spritzing and just having a tray of water. If that doesn't
work i might consider a cheap pressure cooker method ala Kenneth.
I ask again, are we SURE that my problem is from lack of steam? I'd
hate to be futzing with the steam if that isn't the problem.

thanks
jason


> Jason,
>
> at one point, I had a disgustingly thin crust for some time because I
> sprayed water on top of the loafs during baking a couple of times, mostly
> in the beginning. My reasoning at this point was to allow better rise by
> keeping the crust soft. (Don't know if this was right, the thin crust sure
> was not worth it.)
>
> Then I figured that the effect of cooling the loafs by spraying was the
> cause - I stopped it and went better - thicker crust.
>
> Nowadays, I close the vent holes of the oven with duct tape and keep a
> metal bowl with boiling water between the heat coils on the bottom
> (electrical oven) during baking.
>
> When the water gets low in the bowl, I replenish with boiling water and let
> the oven heat up again; this happens between batches - one comes out, water
> in, reheat the oven until max and when it's reached, next batch goes in.
>
> The oven is so full of hot steam that I get almost burnt in the face by
> opening the door and the steam comes out. There is a lot of better heat
> transfer to the loafs from the steam.
>
> I have been thinking about the external steam generation but currently,
> there is no need for it. I get pretty thick crusts especially by increasing
> the heat for the last 5 - 10 minutes to max temperature again to get ready
> for the next batch.
>
> Your case may be somewhat different because you have a gas oven and can't
> close the vent but I think that the burning gas produces some steam as well.
>
> I think you could benefit from using baking stones (if you don't) - 1" clay
> tiles - two layers heated up with a small bowl of boiling water in a bottom
> corner of your oven and no spraying could do the trick.
>
> For what it's worth.
>
> Samartha
>
>