loaf drying out while proofing
 

On 19 Jul 2004 15:41:02 -0700, (Phil) wrote:

>Does anyone know how to prevent a boule from drying out whilst
>proofing in a cloth lined banneton? I recently purchased a banneton
>from Trader Joes, a cloth lined basket type thing (it was cheap...only
>$8). When I tried proofing some loaves in it this weekend, the bottom
>of the dough (the part in contact with the banneton cloth) dried out.
>Not really dry, more like the it became leathery. It rose, but when it
>was baked the skin turned out kind of like cracked porcelain, with
>tiny fissures everywhere.
>
>I'm thinking of wrapping the bottom of the banneton in saran wrap, but
>have also read the archives here and heard that this problem arises
>because of too much flour on the banneton cloth itself.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Phil Reed
>email: yuk7yuk7 at yahoo.com

Hey Phil,

Your banneton is doing just what it should do...

It is supposed to (slightly) dry out the dough that is in contact with
the fabric producing the "leathery" texture that you describe. That
leathery skin allows the baker to slash the (otherwise) more moist and
tender dough producing a pleasing result in the surface of the
finished loaf.

The crackling of the surface is not related to the extent to which the
dough dried out. I believe that it may be a function of the baking
temperature and the length of the bake. That cracked surface is, by
the way, considered very desirable for certain types of breads.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

Phil wrote:
>
> Does anyone know how to prevent a boule from drying out whilst
>
> tiny fissures everywhere.
>

Well the cheapest way is to take a plastic bag from the grocery
store and put the baksket in the bag and seal the top with a
twist tie.

Enjoy your crackly crust. People will now be writing you saying
that they did what you did and their crust did not get that cool
look.

Regards,

Charles

Charles Perry
Reply to:

** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand **

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On 21 Jul 2004 01:01:26 -0700, (Phil) wrote:

>> It is supposed to (slightly) dry out the dough that is in contact with
>> the fabric producing the "leathery" texture that you describe. That
>> leathery skin allows the baker to slash the (otherwise) more moist and
>> tender dough producing a pleasing result in the surface of the
>> finished loaf.
>
>But, since the dough that is in contact with the "bottom" of the
>banneton becomes the top of the loaf, can't the dryness inhibit oven
>spring? I know oven spring isn't the holy grail of sourdough baking,
>but I feel like I should be getting *some*, what with a 500 degree
>oven, a baking stone, and (what I think to be) proper proofing.
>
>Phil Reed


Hi Phil,

No, I don't believe that the very slight drying of that part of the
loaf in contact with the fabric inhibits oven spring at all.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:16:48 -0400, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On 21 Jul 2004 01:01:26 -0700, (Phil) wrote:
>
>>> It is supposed to (slightly) dry out the dough that is in contact with
>>> the fabric producing the "leathery" texture that you describe. That
>>> leathery skin allows the baker to slash the (otherwise) more moist and
>>> tender dough producing a pleasing result in the surface of the
>>> finished loaf.
>>
>>But, since the dough that is in contact with the "bottom" of the
>>banneton becomes the top of the loaf, can't the dryness inhibit oven
>>spring? I know oven spring isn't the holy grail of sourdough baking,
>>but I feel like I should be getting *some*, what with a 500 degree
>>oven, a baking stone, and (what I think to be) proper proofing.
>>
>>Phil Reed

>
>Hi Phil,
>
>No, I don't believe that the very slight drying of that part of the
>loaf in contact with the fabric inhibits oven spring at all.
>
>All the best,

Hello again,

I neglected to add:

If the dough is drying to the point that spring is constrained, the
loaf will burst (often looking as if it had "exploded") on baking.

Is that the problem you are having?

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:16:48 -0400, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On 21 Jul 2004 01:01:26 -0700, (Phil) wrote:
>
>>> It is supposed to (slightly) dry out the dough that is in contact with
>>> the fabric producing the "leathery" texture that you describe. That
>>> leathery skin allows the baker to slash the (otherwise) more moist and
>>> tender dough producing a pleasing result in the surface of the
>>> finished loaf.
>>
>>But, since the dough that is in contact with the "bottom" of the
>>banneton becomes the top of the loaf, can't the dryness inhibit oven
>>spring? I know oven spring isn't the holy grail of sourdough baking,
>>but I feel like I should be getting *some*, what with a 500 degree
>>oven, a baking stone, and (what I think to be) proper proofing.
>>
>>Phil Reed

>
>Hi Phil,
>
>No, I don't believe that the very slight drying of that part of the
>loaf in contact with the fabric inhibits oven spring at all.
>
>All the best,

Hello again,

I neglected to add:

If the dough is drying to the point that spring is constrained, the
loaf will burst (often looking as if it had "exploded") on baking.

Is that the problem you are having?

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

From what I understand, the phenomenon of "oven spring" consists of 3
components (listed in no particular order):

1) The expulsion of dissolved CO2 out of solution
2) The expansion of CO2 pockets
3) The increase in yeast activity

- Steve Brandt

"Phil" > wrote in message
om...
> I haven't read much about oven spring, and why it happens. But it
> seems to me (with my limited chemistry and physics backgroung) that
> the co2 "bubbles" in the crust made during proofing simply expand
> because co2 will "expand" (is that the right word?) when heated. I
> have a hard time believing that oven spring is caused by some last
> minute co2 producing reaction from the yeast because to the heat of
> the oven.

loaf drying out while proofing
 

From what I understand, the phenomenon of "oven spring" consists of 3
components (listed in no particular order):

1) The expulsion of dissolved CO2 out of solution
2) The expansion of CO2 pockets
3) The increase in yeast activity

- Steve Brandt

"Phil" > wrote in message
om...
> I haven't read much about oven spring, and why it happens. But it
> seems to me (with my limited chemistry and physics backgroung) that
> the co2 "bubbles" in the crust made during proofing simply expand
> because co2 will "expand" (is that the right word?) when heated. I
> have a hard time believing that oven spring is caused by some last
> minute co2 producing reaction from the yeast because to the heat of
> the oven.

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On 7/21/04 1:16 PM, "Phil" > wrote:

> Kenneth > wrote
>> I neglected to add:
>>
>> If the dough is drying to the point that spring is constrained, the
>> loaf will burst (often looking as if it had "exploded") on baking.
>>
>> Is that the problem you are having?
>
> No, not really. It's just that I'm not getting much oven spring. The
> loaf pretty much stays the same size as when I put it in the oven at
> the beginning of the bake. It's not a big deal, the crumb is decent
> and the bread tastes good, but...I feel like i'm doing something
> wrong. Possibly proofing too long?

<snip>

Could be you're proofing too long...

An old rule and well established rule of thumb for proofing is the finger
poke. If the dough resists a gentle prod, give it more time. If the poke
leaves an indentation you're ready to bake.

But dough temperature is also a big factor... Given the same state of
"proofness" a warmer dough will spring more. Perhaps your correction is
simply ensuring your "basket rise" (not your overall fermentation!!!) should
be warmer.

Also, when you place the doughs into the baskets have you been careful to
"round" appropriately? Rounding is the final shaping of the boule so there
is surface tension on the side that goes "down" in the basket. Rounding also
is best when there is as little degassing as possible.

Why not bake off some slightly under proofed loaves to get a feel for the
parameters? You won't maximize flavor or crust aesthetics but you will
begin a feel for where you want to be in the fermentation continuum.

Will

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On 21 Jul 2004 11:16:01 -0700, (Phil) wrote:

>Kenneth > wrote
>> I neglected to add:
>>
>> If the dough is drying to the point that spring is constrained, the
>> loaf will burst (often looking as if it had "exploded") on baking.
>>
>> Is that the problem you are having?
>
>No, not really. It's just that I'm not getting much oven spring. The
>loaf pretty much stays the same size as when I put it in the oven at
>the beginning of the bake. It's not a big deal, the crumb is decent
>and the bread tastes good, but...I feel like i'm doing something
>wrong. Possibly proofing too long?
>
>I haven't read much about oven spring, and why it happens. But it
>seems to me (with my limited chemistry and physics backgroung) that
>the co2 "bubbles" in the crust made during proofing simply expand
>because co2 will "expand" (is that the right word?) when heated. I
>have a hard time believing that oven spring is caused by some last
>minute co2 producing reaction from the yeast because to the heat of
>the oven. If this is true, it doesn't follow that I'm not getting oven
>spring. The crumb is not dense either; I don't have huge holes, but
>like I said, I have decent crumb.
>
>Thanks for the input,
>
>Phil Reed


Hi Phil,

Other than the visual interest (that is, watching it happen through a
window in the oven door) there is no virtue whatever to oven spring.
In fact, in many baking traditions it is understood to indicate that
(from the perspective of maximizing flavor) the dough had been
under-proofed.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On 21 Jul 2004 11:16:01 -0700, (Phil) wrote:

>Kenneth > wrote
>> I neglected to add:
>>
>> If the dough is drying to the point that spring is constrained, the
>> loaf will burst (often looking as if it had "exploded") on baking.
>>
>> Is that the problem you are having?
>
>No, not really. It's just that I'm not getting much oven spring. The
>loaf pretty much stays the same size as when I put it in the oven at
>the beginning of the bake. It's not a big deal, the crumb is decent
>and the bread tastes good, but...I feel like i'm doing something
>wrong. Possibly proofing too long?
>
>I haven't read much about oven spring, and why it happens. But it
>seems to me (with my limited chemistry and physics backgroung) that
>the co2 "bubbles" in the crust made during proofing simply expand
>because co2 will "expand" (is that the right word?) when heated. I
>have a hard time believing that oven spring is caused by some last
>minute co2 producing reaction from the yeast because to the heat of
>the oven. If this is true, it doesn't follow that I'm not getting oven
>spring. The crumb is not dense either; I don't have huge holes, but
>like I said, I have decent crumb.
>
>Thanks for the input,
>
>Phil Reed


Hi Phil,

Other than the visual interest (that is, watching it happen through a
window in the oven door) there is no virtue whatever to oven spring.
In fact, in many baking traditions it is understood to indicate that
(from the perspective of maximizing flavor) the dough had been
under-proofed.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On 7/21/04 4:34 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:

> On 21 Jul 2004 11:16:01 -0700, (Phil) wrote:
>
> Hi Phil,
>
> Other than the visual interest (that is, watching it happen through a
> window in the oven door) there is no virtue whatever to oven spring.
> In fact, in many baking traditions it is understood to indicate that
> (from the perspective of maximizing flavor) the dough had been
> under-proofed.
>
> All the best,

Kenneth,

It's not clear to me why we should relegate oven spring to the category of
"no virtue whatever". For example, getting some additional "push" in a loaf
adds visual interest to the scoring.

I suspect a loaf proofed to the theoretical maximum cannot have the optimum
crumb structure. Meaning the holes will be less generous, the loaf will vent
moisture less efficiently, which in turn might not support a deeper roasting
of the interior structure, gelatinization of the starches and so forth.
Reinhart, in Bread Baker's Apprentice, has an interesting discussion on page
101.

I'm suggesting maximum fermentation may not ultimately equate to optimum
flavor since it intersects with baking variables that also affect flavor.

Or... Some oven spring may be desirable to facilitate flavor.

Will

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On 7/21/04 4:34 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:

> On 21 Jul 2004 11:16:01 -0700, (Phil) wrote:
>
> Hi Phil,
>
> Other than the visual interest (that is, watching it happen through a
> window in the oven door) there is no virtue whatever to oven spring.
> In fact, in many baking traditions it is understood to indicate that
> (from the perspective of maximizing flavor) the dough had been
> under-proofed.
>
> All the best,

Kenneth,

It's not clear to me why we should relegate oven spring to the category of
"no virtue whatever". For example, getting some additional "push" in a loaf
adds visual interest to the scoring.

I suspect a loaf proofed to the theoretical maximum cannot have the optimum
crumb structure. Meaning the holes will be less generous, the loaf will vent
moisture less efficiently, which in turn might not support a deeper roasting
of the interior structure, gelatinization of the starches and so forth.
Reinhart, in Bread Baker's Apprentice, has an interesting discussion on page
101.

I'm suggesting maximum fermentation may not ultimately equate to optimum
flavor since it intersects with baking variables that also affect flavor.

Or... Some oven spring may be desirable to facilitate flavor.

Will

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:06:32 -0500, williamwaller
> wrote:

>On 7/21/04 4:34 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:
>
>> On 21 Jul 2004 11:16:01 -0700, (Phil) wrote:
>>
>> Hi Phil,
>>
>> Other than the visual interest (that is, watching it happen through a
>> window in the oven door) there is no virtue whatever to oven spring.
>> In fact, in many baking traditions it is understood to indicate that
>> (from the perspective of maximizing flavor) the dough had been
>> under-proofed.
>>
>> All the best,
>
>Kenneth,
>
>It's not clear to me why we should relegate oven spring to the category of
>"no virtue whatever". For example, getting some additional "push" in a loaf
>adds visual interest to the scoring.
>
>I suspect a loaf proofed to the theoretical maximum cannot have the optimum
>crumb structure. Meaning the holes will be less generous, the loaf will vent
>moisture less efficiently, which in turn might not support a deeper roasting
>of the interior structure, gelatinization of the starches and so forth.
>Reinhart, in Bread Baker's Apprentice, has an interesting discussion on page
>101.
>
>I'm suggesting maximum fermentation may not ultimately equate to optimum
>flavor since it intersects with baking variables that also affect flavor.
>
>Or... Some oven spring may be desirable to facilitate flavor.
>
>Will
>

Hi Will,

I agree with everything you wrote.

My overstated comments were in reaction to the many folks who seem to
strive to achieve ever more spring...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 18:06:32 -0500, williamwaller
> wrote:

>On 7/21/04 4:34 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:
>
>> On 21 Jul 2004 11:16:01 -0700, (Phil) wrote:
>>
>> Hi Phil,
>>
>> Other than the visual interest (that is, watching it happen through a
>> window in the oven door) there is no virtue whatever to oven spring.
>> In fact, in many baking traditions it is understood to indicate that
>> (from the perspective of maximizing flavor) the dough had been
>> under-proofed.
>>
>> All the best,
>
>Kenneth,
>
>It's not clear to me why we should relegate oven spring to the category of
>"no virtue whatever". For example, getting some additional "push" in a loaf
>adds visual interest to the scoring.
>
>I suspect a loaf proofed to the theoretical maximum cannot have the optimum
>crumb structure. Meaning the holes will be less generous, the loaf will vent
>moisture less efficiently, which in turn might not support a deeper roasting
>of the interior structure, gelatinization of the starches and so forth.
>Reinhart, in Bread Baker's Apprentice, has an interesting discussion on page
>101.
>
>I'm suggesting maximum fermentation may not ultimately equate to optimum
>flavor since it intersects with baking variables that also affect flavor.
>
>Or... Some oven spring may be desirable to facilitate flavor.
>
>Will
>

Hi Will,

I agree with everything you wrote.

My overstated comments were in reaction to the many folks who seem to
strive to achieve ever more spring...

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

A well-thought out and reasoned response,Will. I might also add that the
grigne (pardon my French, Dick Adams) produced by the appropriate amount of
oven spring in a properly slashed loaf provides a particularly efficient
pathway for venting of moisture, leading to "deeper roasting of the interior
structure, gelatinization of the starches...", as you mentioned.

Proper oven spring for artisan breads is not just something for the baker's
viewing pleasure.

- Steve Brandt

"williamwaller" > wrote in message
news:mailman.3.1090451198.252.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...
> It's not clear to me why we should relegate oven spring to the category of
> "no virtue whatever". For example, getting some additional "push" in a
loaf
> adds visual interest to the scoring.
>
> I suspect a loaf proofed to the theoretical maximum cannot have the
optimum
> crumb structure. Meaning the holes will be less generous, the loaf will
vent
> moisture less efficiently, which in turn might not support a deeper
roasting
> of the interior structure, gelatinization of the starches and so forth.
> Reinhart, in Bread Baker's Apprentice, has an interesting discussion on
page
> 101.
>
> I'm suggesting maximum fermentation may not ultimately equate to optimum
> flavor since it intersects with baking variables that also affect flavor.
>
> Or... Some oven spring may be desirable to facilitate flavor.

loaf drying out while proofing
 

A well-thought out and reasoned response,Will. I might also add that the
grigne (pardon my French, Dick Adams) produced by the appropriate amount of
oven spring in a properly slashed loaf provides a particularly efficient
pathway for venting of moisture, leading to "deeper roasting of the interior
structure, gelatinization of the starches...", as you mentioned.

Proper oven spring for artisan breads is not just something for the baker's
viewing pleasure.

- Steve Brandt

"williamwaller" > wrote in message
news:mailman.3.1090451198.252.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...
> It's not clear to me why we should relegate oven spring to the category of
> "no virtue whatever". For example, getting some additional "push" in a
loaf
> adds visual interest to the scoring.
>
> I suspect a loaf proofed to the theoretical maximum cannot have the
optimum
> crumb structure. Meaning the holes will be less generous, the loaf will
vent
> moisture less efficiently, which in turn might not support a deeper
roasting
> of the interior structure, gelatinization of the starches and so forth.
> Reinhart, in Bread Baker's Apprentice, has an interesting discussion on
page
> 101.
>
> I'm suggesting maximum fermentation may not ultimately equate to optimum
> flavor since it intersects with baking variables that also affect flavor.
>
> Or... Some oven spring may be desirable to facilitate flavor.

loaf drying out while proofing
 

Kenneth, between your overstated layer calculation and your statement
regarding the uselessness of oven spring, you are beginning to erode your
credibility with your hyperbole. You may want to be more thoughtful in your
responses.

- Steve Brandt


"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...

> My overstated comments were in reaction to the many folks who seem to
> strive to achieve ever more spring...

loaf drying out while proofing
 

Kenneth, between your overstated layer calculation and your statement
regarding the uselessness of oven spring, you are beginning to erode your
credibility with your hyperbole. You may want to be more thoughtful in your
responses.

- Steve Brandt


"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...

> My overstated comments were in reaction to the many folks who seem to
> strive to achieve ever more spring...

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:02:45 GMT, "Steve B" >
wrote:

>Kenneth, between your overstated layer calculation and your statement
>regarding the uselessness of oven spring, you are beginning to erode your
>credibility with your hyperbole. You may want to be more thoughtful in your
>responses.
>
>- Steve Brandt

Hi Steve,

Regarding the latter, I have just said that my comment was overstated.
If that acceptance of responsibility is insufficient for your needs, I
will flagellate myself privately later this evening.

Regarding for former:

I wrote "If we do the folding, say, five times, we would have (if I
calculate correctly) 37,733,772,363,874 such layers <g>."

If you did not understand that to be a joke, well, I will try to find
a way to accept that your assessment of my credibility has been
eroded.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 00:02:45 GMT, "Steve B" >
wrote:

>Kenneth, between your overstated layer calculation and your statement
>regarding the uselessness of oven spring, you are beginning to erode your
>credibility with your hyperbole. You may want to be more thoughtful in your
>responses.
>
>- Steve Brandt

Hi Steve,

Regarding the latter, I have just said that my comment was overstated.
If that acceptance of responsibility is insufficient for your needs, I
will flagellate myself privately later this evening.

Regarding for former:

I wrote "If we do the folding, say, five times, we would have (if I
calculate correctly) 37,733,772,363,874 such layers <g>."

If you did not understand that to be a joke, well, I will try to find
a way to accept that your assessment of my credibility has been
eroded.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

"Phil" wrote in message
om...

> Kenneth > wrote

> > If the dough is drying to the point that spring is constrained, the
> > loaf will burst (often looking as if it had "exploded") on baking.
> >
> > Is that the problem you are having?
>
> No, not really. It's just that I'm not getting much oven spring. The
> loaf pretty much stays the same size as when I put it in the oven at
> the beginning of the bake. It's not a big deal, the crumb is decent
> and the bread tastes good, but...I feel like i'm doing something
> wrong. Possibly proofing too long?
>

To me proofing too long, at least for free form loaves, is if I can't get it
into the oven without deflating the loaf.

I don't know that I've ever baked a loaf with absolutely no oven spring, but
a lot of oven spring is not my goal. I like to see my loaves have a mostly
flat bottom with a little bit of upturn at the sides. I've posted a couple
of pictures at the yahoo bread group in the Mike folder to show what I'm
talking about. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bread_Pictures/

The first picture shows the loaf dead on from the side and you can see that
I'm trying to describe when I say "a little bit of upturn". The second
picture shows the top of the loaf and how the slashing looked. From the
pictures I hope you can see that there was a bit of spring, but not an awful
lot.

If I hadn't let that loaf rise as much as I had prior to baking there would
have been an much more pronounced upturn at the side of the loaf with less
flat along the bottom. If I had let it go much longer there would have been
a flat bottom all the way to the edge with a sharp transition from the
bottom to the sides. In other words, I wouldn't have been able to get it
into the oven without deflating it too much.

I wish I had some pictures of my other examples, but I tend not to take
pictures of bread with which I'm not happy. I'm baking again tomorrow, maybe
I'll get lucky and screw up.

I don't think you should worry too much about the oven spring if you are
happy with the final product.

As far as the drying is concerned. I have a large plastic Rubbermaid storage
box. I just place my bread on the counter to rise and place the box over the
loaves. The loaves don't dry out. Before I pulled that box out of a friends
trash I used to let my bread rise inside of a large plastic bag, that works
well too.

-Mike

loaf drying out while proofing
 

"Phil" wrote in message
om...

> Kenneth > wrote

> > If the dough is drying to the point that spring is constrained, the
> > loaf will burst (often looking as if it had "exploded") on baking.
> >
> > Is that the problem you are having?
>
> No, not really. It's just that I'm not getting much oven spring. The
> loaf pretty much stays the same size as when I put it in the oven at
> the beginning of the bake. It's not a big deal, the crumb is decent
> and the bread tastes good, but...I feel like i'm doing something
> wrong. Possibly proofing too long?
>

To me proofing too long, at least for free form loaves, is if I can't get it
into the oven without deflating the loaf.

I don't know that I've ever baked a loaf with absolutely no oven spring, but
a lot of oven spring is not my goal. I like to see my loaves have a mostly
flat bottom with a little bit of upturn at the sides. I've posted a couple
of pictures at the yahoo bread group in the Mike folder to show what I'm
talking about. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bread_Pictures/

The first picture shows the loaf dead on from the side and you can see that
I'm trying to describe when I say "a little bit of upturn". The second
picture shows the top of the loaf and how the slashing looked. From the
pictures I hope you can see that there was a bit of spring, but not an awful
lot.

If I hadn't let that loaf rise as much as I had prior to baking there would
have been an much more pronounced upturn at the side of the loaf with less
flat along the bottom. If I had let it go much longer there would have been
a flat bottom all the way to the edge with a sharp transition from the
bottom to the sides. In other words, I wouldn't have been able to get it
into the oven without deflating it too much.

I wish I had some pictures of my other examples, but I tend not to take
pictures of bread with which I'm not happy. I'm baking again tomorrow, maybe
I'll get lucky and screw up.

I don't think you should worry too much about the oven spring if you are
happy with the final product.

As far as the drying is concerned. I have a large plastic Rubbermaid storage
box. I just place my bread on the counter to rise and place the box over the
loaves. The loaves don't dry out. Before I pulled that box out of a friends
trash I used to let my bread rise inside of a large plastic bag, that works
well too.

-Mike

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:25:54 -0500, "Mike Pearce"
> wrote:

>"Phil" wrote in message
. com...
>
>> Kenneth > wrote
>
>> > If the dough is drying to the point that spring is constrained, the
>> > loaf will burst (often looking as if it had "exploded") on baking.
>> >
>> > Is that the problem you are having?
>>
>> No, not really. It's just that I'm not getting much oven spring. The
>> loaf pretty much stays the same size as when I put it in the oven at
>> the beginning of the bake. It's not a big deal, the crumb is decent
>> and the bread tastes good, but...I feel like i'm doing something
>> wrong. Possibly proofing too long?
>>
>
>To me proofing too long, at least for free form loaves, is if I can't get it
>into the oven without deflating the loaf.
>
>I don't know that I've ever baked a loaf with absolutely no oven spring, but
>a lot of oven spring is not my goal. I like to see my loaves have a mostly
>flat bottom with a little bit of upturn at the sides. I've posted a couple
>of pictures at the yahoo bread group in the Mike folder to show what I'm
>talking about. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bread_Pictures/
>
>The first picture shows the loaf dead on from the side and you can see that
>I'm trying to describe when I say "a little bit of upturn". The second
>picture shows the top of the loaf and how the slashing looked. From the
>pictures I hope you can see that there was a bit of spring, but not an awful
>lot.
>
>If I hadn't let that loaf rise as much as I had prior to baking there would
>have been an much more pronounced upturn at the side of the loaf with less
>flat along the bottom. If I had let it go much longer there would have been
>a flat bottom all the way to the edge with a sharp transition from the
>bottom to the sides. In other words, I wouldn't have been able to get it
>into the oven without deflating it too much.
>
>I wish I had some pictures of my other examples, but I tend not to take
>pictures of bread with which I'm not happy. I'm baking again tomorrow, maybe
>I'll get lucky and screw up.
>
>I don't think you should worry too much about the oven spring if you are
>happy with the final product.
>
>As far as the drying is concerned. I have a large plastic Rubbermaid storage
>box. I just place my bread on the counter to rise and place the box over the
>loaves. The loaves don't dry out. Before I pulled that box out of a friends
>trash I used to let my bread rise inside of a large plastic bag, that works
>well too.
>
>-Mike
>

Hi Mike,

You said:

>I don't know that I've ever baked a loaf with absolutely no oven spring, but
>a lot of oven spring is not my goal. I like to see my loaves have a mostly
>flat bottom with a little bit of upturn at the sides.

and that is a much better description than I had offered a while ago.
I said something like "If the loaves are pulling away from the baking
surface as if they were trying to become the shape of a sphere they
were far underproofed..." but your description captures that issue of
shape in a way that is more easily understood.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

loaf drying out while proofing
 

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:25:54 -0500, "Mike Pearce"
> wrote:

>"Phil" wrote in message
. com...
>
>> Kenneth > wrote
>
>> > If the dough is drying to the point that spring is constrained, the
>> > loaf will burst (often looking as if it had "exploded") on baking.
>> >
>> > Is that the problem you are having?
>>
>> No, not really. It's just that I'm not getting much oven spring. The
>> loaf pretty much stays the same size as when I put it in the oven at
>> the beginning of the bake. It's not a big deal, the crumb is decent
>> and the bread tastes good, but...I feel like i'm doing something
>> wrong. Possibly proofing too long?
>>
>
>To me proofing too long, at least for free form loaves, is if I can't get it
>into the oven without deflating the loaf.
>
>I don't know that I've ever baked a loaf with absolutely no oven spring, but
>a lot of oven spring is not my goal. I like to see my loaves have a mostly
>flat bottom with a little bit of upturn at the sides. I've posted a couple
>of pictures at the yahoo bread group in the Mike folder to show what I'm
>talking about. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bread_Pictures/
>
>The first picture shows the loaf dead on from the side and you can see that
>I'm trying to describe when I say "a little bit of upturn". The second
>picture shows the top of the loaf and how the slashing looked. From the
>pictures I hope you can see that there was a bit of spring, but not an awful
>lot.
>
>If I hadn't let that loaf rise as much as I had prior to baking there would
>have been an much more pronounced upturn at the side of the loaf with less
>flat along the bottom. If I had let it go much longer there would have been
>a flat bottom all the way to the edge with a sharp transition from the
>bottom to the sides. In other words, I wouldn't have been able to get it
>into the oven without deflating it too much.
>
>I wish I had some pictures of my other examples, but I tend not to take
>pictures of bread with which I'm not happy. I'm baking again tomorrow, maybe
>I'll get lucky and screw up.
>
>I don't think you should worry too much about the oven spring if you are
>happy with the final product.
>
>As far as the drying is concerned. I have a large plastic Rubbermaid storage
>box. I just place my bread on the counter to rise and place the box over the
>loaves. The loaves don't dry out. Before I pulled that box out of a friends
>trash I used to let my bread rise inside of a large plastic bag, that works
>well too.
>
>-Mike
>

Hi Mike,

You said:

>I don't know that I've ever baked a loaf with absolutely no oven spring, but
>a lot of oven spring is not my goal. I like to see my loaves have a mostly
>flat bottom with a little bit of upturn at the sides.

and that is a much better description than I had offered a while ago.
I said something like "If the loaves are pulling away from the baking
surface as if they were trying to become the shape of a sphere they
were far underproofed..." but your description captures that issue of
shape in a way that is more easily understood.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."