I have made a total of 2 loaves of sourdough bread now, my third being
last night. I made a stupid mistake though. I won't go into the whole
fermentation process I, except to say that it was normal (like the
over loaf I did a few days ago) and the bread rose very well on the
first rise. Well, after that I punched the dough down and formed pan
loaves. I put the dough in the pans, and put them in the fridge to
bake this morning. I covered the pans with saran wrap, with a couple
of holes in the top (to keep the outside from drying). Well, as it is
only my second loaf (and the first time I've risen a naturally
leavened bread in the fridge) you can guess what happened. I woke up
this morning, and the dough had risen so much it was stuck to the
saran wrap. I pulled it off, and the loaf just totally deflated.
Bummer. But, I still baked it and the taste (and crumb) were
great...tangy with a medium-holed crumb structure. It just didn't rise
much at all, and was only about the height of the top of the pan, kind
of like a quick bread. But, like I said it still tasted great.

My question to you all is: Is it really necessary for me to cover the
loaves if they are rising in the refridgerator? I don't want the top
of the dough to dry out, but I also don't want to have the saran wrap
incident happen again. Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Phil Reed
email: prex at afes dot com

I'm with you, Phil. I didn't like the sticking either. There are two
solutions: coat the saran with oil, or don't cover. I chose to do the
later...and haven't looked back since...

Best regards,
Dusty Bleher
San Jose, Ca.

--
Remove STORE to reply
"Phil" > wrote in message
m...
> I have made a total of 2 loaves of sourdough bread now, my third being
> last night. I made a stupid mistake though. I won't go into the whole
> fermentation process I, except to say that it was normal (like the
> over loaf I did a few days ago) and the bread rose very well on the
> first rise. Well, after that I punched the dough down and formed pan
> loaves. I put the dough in the pans, and put them in the fridge to
> bake this morning. I covered the pans with saran wrap, with a couple
> of holes in the top (to keep the outside from drying). Well, as it is
> only my second loaf (and the first time I've risen a naturally
> leavened bread in the fridge) you can guess what happened. I woke up
> this morning, and the dough had risen so much it was stuck to the
> saran wrap. I pulled it off, and the loaf just totally deflated.
> Bummer. But, I still baked it and the taste (and crumb) were
> great...tangy with a medium-holed crumb structure. It just didn't rise
> much at all, and was only about the height of the top of the pan, kind
> of like a quick bread. But, like I said it still tasted great.
>
> My question to you all is: Is it really necessary for me to cover the
> loaves if they are rising in the refridgerator? I don't want the top
> of the dough to dry out, but I also don't want to have the saran wrap
> incident happen again. Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Phil Reed
> email: prex at afes dot com

"Dusty" > wrote in message =
...

> There are two solutions: coat the saran with oil, or don't cover.

There is yet another: Don't put the dough in the fridge! Then you'll
have some flexibility in covering. See, for instance:
http://home.att.net/~dick.adams/EZSDLoaves/

Or a big enough, humid enough, proofing box, as in the recent/current(?)
thread on proofing boxes?

Or maybe a bigger refrigerator, to contain a proofing box?

Or a refrigerator dedicated as a proofing box, as previously explained
to you by Kenneth:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...r8h581otlctqt=
@4ax.com
or make your own refrigerated proofing box with Peltier cooling as
discussed in the same thread.

Or buy your bread at the store, if that seems easier.

: )

---
DickA

Phil wrote:
<< Any suggestions? >>

Ed responds. Those two words will unleash a wrath of responses you were not
prepared to deal with - ha ha. Kind of like asking the waiter "what wine do
you suggest" (that cost me about $100).

I found a very old web page. I still sometimes use a spare camping ice chest if
I want to chill the loaves.

http://members.aol.com/skideezie/myhomepage/index.html

The site is entitled sourdough photos and smells. I think there was an
argument on whether or not one could smell acids. I was unable to upload the
smells however.

Ed Bechtel

At 10:42 PM 7/1/2004, you wrote:
>I'm with you, Phil. I didn't like the sticking either. There are two
>solutions: coat the saran with oil, or don't cover. I chose to do the
>later...and haven't looked back since...

Because you live apparently in an area where air humidity is relatively
high. There are dryer climates where you can't do that without problems.

There is a couple of other points for (Phil):

- use less dough

- choose a bigger container for the fridge rise

- punch it down and let it rise again after it's out of the fridge

- flour the loaf

- develop the dough (gluten) better so it does not rip so easily

(the last two seem to do the trick for me)

Samartha

>Any suggestions?

When I age dough in the fridge I usually do the following:

Put the dough on parchment on a cookie sheet and place the cookie sheet in a
plastic trash bag which I inflate a bit and then tie off. This keeps the
environment around the dough moist and keeps the plastic away from the dough
so it doesn't touch. This has always worked well for me.

You can place the dough on parchment for shaped loaves or in a bread pan if
you choose. Either can go on a cookie sheet (no sides). You can then lift
the bread pans off the sheet or slide the shaped loaves onto your stone, if
you use one.

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message >...
> "Dusty" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > There are two solutions: coat the saran with oil, or don't cover.
>
> There is yet another: Don't put the dough in the fridge! Then you'll
> have some flexibility in covering.

Normally I wouldn't have put the dough in the fridge to rise. It was a
(bungled) attempt at retarding the loaves so that I could bake them
the next morning. I never expected them to rise as quickly (or as
high) as they did. If I rose the loaf in a warmer location, I would
have had to wake up at something like 2 am to bake the bread. Very
little (even bread) can get me out of bed at 2 in the a.m.

Phil Reed
email: prex at afes dot com

"Phil" > wrote in message =
m...

> Normally I wouldn't have put the dough in the fridge to rise. It was a
> (bungled) attempt at retarding the loaves so that I could bake them
> the next morning. I never expected them to rise as quickly (or as
> high) as they did. If I rose the loaf in a warmer location, I would
> have had to wake up at something like 2 am to bake the bread. ...=20

I do not think the dough, by the time it reaches fridge temperature, is
rising ver fast. Problem is that it takes a while to cool down.

One practical solution is to rearrange your schedule so that the dough =
is
rising during the day or evening when somebody can see what it is doing. =
=20
At summertime temperatures dough can rise quite well in five hours, even
four if the culture is well activated. See my (wintertime) timings at
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/di...structions.doc
(In the summertime, that bread is baked in the early evening if the=20
procedure is started at midnight.)

Of course, you will not see the blistery crust that was mentioned by Ed:
http://members.aol.com/skideezie/myhomepage/index.html
That seems to be a unique feature of "retardation", perhaps the only =
one.

--=20
Dick Adams
(Sourdough minimalist)
<firstname> dot <lastname> at bigfoot dot com
___________________
Sourdough FAQ guide at=20
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html
=20

On 7/2/04 1:56 PM, "Dick Adams" > wrote:

<snip>

>
> Of course, you will not see the blistery crust that was mentioned by Ed:
> http://members.aol.com/skideezie/myhomepage/index.html
> That seems to be a unique feature of "retardation", perhaps the only one.

Dick,

I like the little bubbles as much as the next baker, but even my children
can tell the difference between aged dough and straight up "proof and bake".
Care to guess which is preferred 100% of the time?

Will

"williamwaller" > wrote in message =
news:mailman.4.1088797822.232.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...

> I like the little bubbles as much as the next baker, but even my =
children
> can tell the difference between aged dough and straight up "proof and =
bake".
> Care to guess which is preferred 100% of the time?

They like what you like. What kid is going to tell his father that he =
is wasting
his time with an unnecessarily elaborate and lengthy routine?

Who does "proof and bake"? Not me! One can get a lot of dough aging
at room temperature, and warmer. It just happens faster, that's all. =
And, I'll
wager, better rises.

Compare http://members.aol.com/skideezie/images/sf5b.jpg (cold rise) =
with
http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...e%5F3-9-04.jpg (warm =
rise).

--=20
Dick Adams
(Sourdough minimalist)
<firstname> dot <lastname> at bigfoot dot com
___________________
Sourdough FAQ guide at=20
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html

On 7/2/04 8:04 PM, "Dick Adams" > wrote:

>
> "williamwaller" > wrote in message
> news:mailman.4.1088797822.232.rec.food.sourdough@m ail.otherwhen.com...
>
>> I like the little bubbles as much as the next baker, but even my children
>> can tell the difference between aged dough and straight up "proof and bake".
>> Care to guess which is preferred 100% of the time?
>
> They like what you like. What kid is going to tell his father that he is
> wasting
> his time with an unnecessarily elaborate and lengthy routine?

A couple of teenagers who think everything you do is stupid (or worse) will
tell you whatever they want to. There is a wonderful, but admittedly
difficult, period where they are brutally honest.

As for "elaborate". I just put the dough bucket in the cellar or
refrigerator and let the levain work. When I was a salary man (before the
Bush tax cuts made me wealthy ;-) ) deferring the gratification was what I
thought I was supposed to do.
>
> Who does "proof and bake"? Not me! One can get a lot of dough aging
> at room temperature, and warmer. It just happens faster, that's all. And,
> I'll
> wager, better rises.

Well, after dough prep there's retard, proof and bake or... proof and bake.
That's the proverbial fork in the road. Rises happen either way.

>
> Compare http://members.aol.com/skideezie/images/sf5b.jpg (cold rise) with
> http://www.prettycolors.com/bread%5F...e%5F3-9-04.jpg (warm rise).

"Dave Bazell" > wrote
>
> Put the dough on parchment on a cookie sheet and place the cookie sheet in a
> plastic trash bag which I inflate a bit and then tie off. This keeps the
> environment around the dough moist and keeps the plastic away from the dough
> so it doesn't touch.

This was my plan for the next loaf (whether refriderated to rise or
not). I didn't think of using a trash bag, for my pan loaves I thought
just a big ziplock would suffice. Nevertheless, it's what I'm going to
try next.

My other loaves were put in a somewhat humid location to rise for my
first 2 loaves, and I had no problems. But, it was too warm a
spot...it would have risen too quickly (and I was trying to hold it
over for 7-8 hrs.

Thanks,

Phil Reed
email: prex at afes dot com

ojunk (Ed Bechtel) wrote
> I found a very old web page. I still sometimes use a spare camping ice chest if
> I want to chill the loaves.
>
> http://members.aol.com/skideezie/myhomepage/index.html
>
> Ed Bechtel

Why use the cooler? I would think the lower temp of the fridge would
allow you to retard them for longer without subsequent degradation of
gluten? It'd be a lot less hassle too...

Which leads me to believe there must be a reason for the 53 degree
thing with the cooler?

Phil Reed
email: prex at afes dot com