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Kenneth poilane - recipe
Can anyone please advise of the correct recipe. I beleive I have
corretly followed the one given below: Day 1, 9:30pm 474g Water + 120g starter + 236g coarse whole wheat, ferment at 69F. Day 2, 7:30am add 65g coarse rye, 254g KA AP flour, 170g whole spelt flour, 20g salt. Knead fully, then refrigerate 24 hours. Then, form boule, ferment at 69F for 5 hours. Slash, then bake at 490F for 35 minutes, the first 15 minutes with steam... However my experience is that the mix from day1 is far too wet to knead and an additional 200g of flour is required. I admit to having a somewhat wet starter but given the proprtions this canot fully explain the problem I experience. The day1 mix could virtually be piped through an icing bag - bit of a exageration but sure you know what I mean it extrudes betwen ones fingers! Having said that the final result is good. So why ....? Jak |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 20:19:32 GMT, jakalad > wrote:
>Can anyone please advise of the correct recipe. I beleive I have >corretly followed the one given below: > >Day 1, 9:30pm 474g Water + 120g starter + 236g coarse whole wheat, >ferment at 69F. > >Day 2, 7:30am add 65g coarse rye, 254g KA AP flour, 170g whole spelt >flour, 20g salt. > >Knead fully, then refrigerate 24 hours. Then, form boule, ferment at >69F for 5 hours. > >Slash, then bake at 490F for 35 minutes, the first 15 minutes with >steam... > >However my experience is that the mix from day1 is far too wet to knead >and an additional 200g of flour is required. I admit to having a >somewhat wet starter but given the proprtions this canot fully explain >the problem I experience. The day1 mix could virtually be piped through >an icing bag - bit of a exageration but sure you know what I mean it >extrudes betwen ones fingers! > >Having said that the final result is good. So why ....? > >Jak Howdy, The hitch is he "However my experience is that the mix from day1 is far too wet to knead..." There is no need to knead at that point, just stir with a spoon to moisten the wheat, then let the very moist mix ferment. HTH, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On 4/20/04 3:19 PM, "jakalad" > wrote:
> Can anyone please advise of the correct recipe. I beleive I have > corretly followed the one given below: > > Day 1, 9:30pm 474g Water + 120g starter + 236g coarse whole wheat, > ferment at 69F. > > Day 2, 7:30am add 65g coarse rye, 254g KA AP flour, 170g whole spelt > flour, 20g salt. > > Knead fully, then refrigerate 24 hours. Then, form boule, ferment at > 69F for 5 hours. > > Slash, then bake at 490F for 35 minutes, the first 15 minutes with > steam... > > However my experience is that the mix from day1 is far too wet to knead > and an additional 200g of flour is required. I admit to having a > somewhat wet starter but given the proprtions this canot fully explain > the problem I experience. The day1 mix could virtually be piped through > an icing bag - bit of a exageration but sure you know what I mean it > extrudes betwen ones fingers! > > Having said that the final result is good. So why ....? > > Jak Jak, What you have above is the same formula that I use. It was developed/posted some time ago by Kenneth. Flavor is excellent. The build on day one is called a "sponge". Consistency is similar to heavy cream. It's wet to facilitate fermentation. The sponge stage increases the numbers of leavening organisms available for the finished dough (day 2) to use. The flours added on day two give the dough the density for traditional kneading. Will > _______________________________________________ > rec.food.sourdough mailing list > > http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
williamwaller > wrote in message news:<mailman.22.1082495327.229.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com>...
> On 4/20/04 3:19 PM, "jakalad" > wrote: > > > Can anyone please advise of the correct recipe. I beleive I have > > corretly followed the one given below: > > > > Day 1, 9:30pm 474g Water + 120g starter + 236g coarse whole wheat, > > ferment at 69F. > > > > Day 2, 7:30am add 65g coarse rye, 254g KA AP flour, 170g whole spelt > > flour, 20g salt. > > > > Knead fully, then refrigerate 24 hours. Then, form boule, ferment at > > 69F for 5 hours. > > > > Slash, then bake at 490F for 35 minutes, the first 15 minutes with > > steam... > > > > However my experience is that the mix from day1 is far too wet to knead > > and an additional 200g of flour is required. I admit to having a > > somewhat wet starter but given the proprtions this canot fully explain > > the problem I experience. The day1 mix could virtually be piped through > > an icing bag - bit of a exageration but sure you know what I mean it > > extrudes betwen ones fingers! > > > > Having said that the final result is good. So why ....? > > > > Jak > > Jak, > > What you have above is the same formula that I use. It was developed/posted > some time ago by Kenneth. Flavor is excellent. The build on day one is > called a "sponge". Consistency is similar to heavy cream. It's wet to > facilitate fermentation. The sponge stage increases the numbers of leavening > organisms available for the finished dough (day 2) to use. The flours added > on day two give the dough the density for traditional kneading. > > Will > > Will, In step one, are you fermenting from 9:30 on day one through 7:30 day two? And would it be the same technique that is used for the loafes presented at http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gfb9/B...lerbread2.html ? > > _______________________________________________ > > rec.food.sourdough mailing list > > > > http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
> > > Day 1, 9:30pm 474g Water + 120g starter + 236g coarse whole wheat,
> > > ferment at 69F. > > > > > > Day 2, 7:30am add 65g coarse rye, 254g KA AP flour, 170g whole spelt > > > flour, 20g salt. > > > > > > Knead fully, then refrigerate 24 hours. Then, form boule, ferment at > > > 69F for 5 hours. > > > > > > Slash, then bake at 490F for 35 minutes, the first 15 minutes with > > > steam... Will, Silly me, I forgot to ask you this question. You say "Knead fully, then refrigerate 24 hours. Then, form boule, ferment at 69F for 5 hours...." Do you mean to say that on day two you only raise once, not twice? |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On 4/21/04 5:43 AM, "Nabuco" > wrote:
>>>> Day 1, 9:30pm 474g Water + 120g starter + 236g coarse whole wheat, >>>> ferment at 69F. >>>> >>>> Day 2, 7:30am add 65g coarse rye, 254g KA AP flour, 170g whole spelt >>>> flour, 20g salt. >>>> >>>> Knead fully, then refrigerate 24 hours. Then, form boule, ferment at >>>> 69F for 5 hours. >>>> >>>> Slash, then bake at 490F for 35 minutes, the first 15 minutes with >>>> steam... > > > Will, > > Silly me, I forgot to ask you this question. You say "Knead fully, > then refrigerate 24 hours. Then, form boule, ferment at 69F for 5 > hours...." > Do you mean to say that on day two you only raise once, not twice? Jak, You have questioned two issues: the sponge and the number of rises. Starting fermentation with a very wet slurry of flour and water (sponge) allows us to maintain smaller quantities of starter. We then amplify the starter culture quickly in this wet "pre-dough" environment. The number of rises allowed is simply method of measuring/evaluating fermentation. I use one rise before baking, but then I always allow the kneaded dough to age at 45 to 50 degrees F. for a day BEFORE that one rise. It does rise to some extent during that aging cycle. More importantly,the fermentation effects I'm looking for during each of the three stages: sponge, age, and rise are different. In the sponge stage I'm looking to increase the leavening power of my culture by increasing its' population. In the age stage, I'm looking to enhance the enzymatic side of the starch to sugar conversion cycle. In the warmer, proof (rise) stage, I'm looking to increase the loft of the dough by trapping fermentation gasses in the crumb structure. Each stage develops and conditions the dough in a different way. If you have the time, I'd take a look at two books: "The Bread Builders" by Wing and Scott and "The Baker's Apprentice" (or "Crust and Crumb") by Peter Reinhart. There's a lot of good material, well presented, that will illuminate your baking efforts. Will > _______________________________________________ > rec.food.sourdough mailing list > > http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
"williamwaller" > wrote in message = news:mailman.25.1082555169.229.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com... > [ ... ] (it all comes back by clicking on the news ID above) > In the sponge stage I'm looking to increase the leavening power of my > culture by increasing its population. Sounds good. > In the age stage, I'm looking to enhance the enzymatic side of the = starch to > sugar conversion cycle. What is the evidence, aside from opinions, that cold storage = differentially promotes conversion of starch to sugar? > In the warmer, proof (rise) stage, I'm looking to increase the loft of = the > dough by trapping fermentation gasses in the crumb structure. Will seems to be saying that enzymatic hydrolysis of starches is favored by lower temperatures, or perhaps he understands that it is not = temperature dependent, whereas fermentation has a more normal temperature = dependence, i.e. faster warmer. Those conjectures should be verifiable. For instance Googling on=20 <hydrolysis temperature starch OR polysaccharides> got ~22,800 hits. I did not study them all, but this one: http://www.cjche.ca/journal/issues/feb98/10-9802.html said that " most granules were hydrolyzed slowly according to the Michaelis-Menten = model and the best fit parameters were found to depend on enzyme type,=20 pH and temperature." which is more or less what one who is acquainted with enzymatic processes would expect.=20 But a major fact here, amenable to common-sense logical analysis, is=20 that bread can rise quite well without being subjected to cold = pretreatment. Not only that, it, in my opinion, rises better. There are other = effects, however, which maybe important to some. One of those might be that loaves to be risen/baked free-form may hold together better if subjected to some cold storage, and have modified rheological properties in some other respects as well. Googling <dough rheology temperature> brings=20 up quite a bit of stuff. There is a privileged PDF file early in the = list there=20 which can be read as an HTML page. There is a possibility that dough which has been done wrong in one way = or another can recover in cold storage. Another factor which may be implicated here is that there are certain persons who have very little to do, and would like to fill there days = and nights with real exciting projects, like waiting for dough to rise in = the fridge. Of course, when it comes to Will, he does make very good-looking bread, so it is clear that he is doing something right. There is the question: = Is what he thinks he is doing right what he, in fact, is doing right. Not to be discriminative, I frequently as the same question of myself. Now when = it comes to certain others, it is clear that they know when they are doing=20 right because they have read that it is the right thing that they are = doing, or because it is what their mother told them to do. --=20 Dick Adams <firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
I am not questioning the different stages, ndeed I find it most beneficial
to make bread in this manner as it suits my lifestyle. My query centres on the consistency of the dough which, unfortunately in my case. proves too wet to knead, I inevtiably end up adding a further 200 grams of flour to get a manageable mix, As I explained I am more than happy with the end result and thank Ken for the recipe but I am intrigued to know what I am doing wrong. Jak |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On 4/21/04 10:38 AM, "Dick Adams" > wrote:
> > "williamwaller" > wrote in message > news:mailman.25.1082555169.229.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com... > >> [ ... ] (it all comes back by clicking on the news ID above) > >> In the sponge stage I'm looking to increase the leavening power of my >> culture by increasing its population. > > Sounds good. > >> In the age stage, I'm looking to enhance the enzymatic side of the starch to >> sugar conversion cycle. > > What is the evidence, aside from opinions, that cold storage differentially > promotes conversion of starch to sugar? > >> In the warmer, proof (rise) stage, I'm looking to increase the loft of the >> dough by trapping fermentation gasses in the crumb structure. > > Will seems to be saying that enzymatic hydrolysis of starches is favored > by lower temperatures, or perhaps he understands that it is not temperature > dependent, whereas fermentation has a more normal temperature dependence, > i.e. faster warmer. > > Those conjectures should be verifiable. For instance Googling on > <hydrolysis temperature starch OR polysaccharides> got ~22,800 hits. > I did not study them all, but this one: > http://www.cjche.ca/journal/issues/feb98/10-9802.html said that > " most granules were hydrolyzed slowly according to the Michaelis-Menten > model and the best fit parameters were found to depend on enzyme type, > pH and temperature." which is more or less what one who is acquainted > with enzymatic processes would expect. > > But a major fact here, amenable to common-sense logical analysis, is > that bread can rise quite well without being subjected to cold pretreatment. > Not only that, it, in my opinion, rises better. There are other effects, > however, which maybe important to some. One of those might be that > loaves to be risen/baked free-form may hold together better if subjected > to some cold storage, and have modified rheological properties in some > other respects as well. Googling <dough rheology temperature> brings > up quite a bit of stuff. There is a privileged PDF file early in the list > there > which can be read as an HTML page. > > There is a possibility that dough which has been done wrong in one way or > another can recover in cold storage. > > Another factor which may be implicated here is that there are certain > persons who have very little to do, and would like to fill there days and > nights with real exciting projects, like waiting for dough to rise in the > fridge. > > Of course, when it comes to Will, he does make very good-looking bread, > so it is clear that he is doing something right. There is the question: Is > what > he thinks he is doing right what he, in fact, is doing right. Not to be > discriminative, I frequently as the same question of myself. Now when it > comes to certain others, it is clear that they know when they are doing > right because they have read that it is the right thing that they are doing, > or because it is what their mother told them to do. Dick, Enjoyed your comments. Let me talk about the cold stage, and I hope other posters wlll share their experience here... For starters, I am not a food chemist like say, Roy Basin. I can follow the direction of those discussions but that's not where my bread passion lies. I think, I am, in fact, doing something right employing cold storage because THE BREAD TASTES BETTER. It is subjective, to be sure, but that's what pleasure is. If I Google long enough and hard enough, I can probably find some page that quotes Euripides (or Suzuki) on the nature of subjective perception. The cold aging technique was something I lucked into about 15 years ago when I was still making (ugh!!!) regular yeast breads. I was never comfortable adding sugar and oil to the doughs despite James Beard's comforting advice. So I had started aging the doughs by using pitiful amounts of yeast to extend the fermentation cycle. Multiple rises worked better. Slower, cooler rises even more so. I carried the practice right into the naturally leavened world. I was completely clueless about enzymes, starch conversions and the whole French pre-industrial-craft-bread tradition. In fact, it wasn't until I read Peter Reinhart's "Pain Ancienne" technique (which isn't even a sourdough bread!) that a more complete picture formed. I'd been making bread for years. Aging carefully. Following my taste. Following the beauty of the crust. My head quite literally in the sand. I agree with you. Cold aging doesn't improve the rise or the spring or the current holy grail: big holes. It does improve the taste, fundamentally and powerfully. And it does improve the color and texture of the crust, dramatically. Do we not accept the SAME paradigm for wine, cheese, olives, meat... Of course we do. And not because some brand marketing specialist promoted it. I will take exception to one thing you said about time. I always found it considerably easier to work the three day/short-discrete-task fermentation cycle into my corporate life (I was one of those MBA marketing hypesters) than having to block out time for a more compressed mix/proof/bake cycle. Will |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On 4/21/04 12:42 PM, "jakalad" > wrote:
> I am not questioning the different stages, ndeed I find it most beneficial > to make bread in this manner as it suits my lifestyle. My query centres on > the consistency of the dough which, unfortunately in my case. proves too > wet to knead, I inevtiably end up adding a further 200 grams of flour to > get a manageable mix, > > As I explained I am more than happy with the end result and thank Ken for > the recipe but I am intrigued to know what I am doing wrong. > > Jak O.K. Which stage is too wet to knead? Day 1 has no kneading. Is the final dough too wet? Meaning after you've added the rye, the spelt, and the all purpose flour... And the salt. Will > _______________________________________________ > rec.food.sourdough mailing list > > http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
"Dick Adams" > wrote in message ... snip There is a possibility that dough which has been done wrong in one way or another can recover in cold storage. snipDick Adams <firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com This is the first time I have heard anyone here venture this thought. What is your basis for this conjecture? My instinct tells me this is wrong. But, in addition, I have never been able to put a less-than-robust loaf in the refrigerator and awake the next morning to a healed and transformed dough. Even further, it is my experience and opinion that if you have mistreated a dough in the beginning process, the best you can do is to find an agreeable workaround. You cannot restore the dough to what it should have been. The crust, color of crumb, texture of the crumb, something, is altered. Sometimes this works to our benefit and we discover a new way of doing things. Janet |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:17:56 -0500, williamwaller
> wrote: >On 4/21/04 12:42 PM, "jakalad" > wrote: > >> I am not questioning the different stages, ndeed I find it most beneficial >> to make bread in this manner as it suits my lifestyle. My query centres on >> the consistency of the dough which, unfortunately in my case. proves too >> wet to knead, I inevtiably end up adding a further 200 grams of flour to >> get a manageable mix, >> >> As I explained I am more than happy with the end result and thank Ken for >> the recipe but I am intrigued to know what I am doing wrong. >> >> Jak > > >O.K. Which stage is too wet to knead? Day 1 has no kneading. Is the final >dough too wet? Meaning after you've added the rye, the spelt, and the all >purpose flour... And the salt. > >Will > >> _______________________________________________ >> rec.food.sourdough mailing list >> >> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough Hi Will & Jak, Indeed, the finished dough is rather sticky. I knead it by machine (a 20 qt. Hobart). By hand, it might be tough, but... If so, just mix it enough to be sure that there is no dry flour, ferment it, and bake. It will taste great. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On 4/21/04 4:19 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:17:56 -0500, williamwaller > > wrote: > >> On 4/21/04 12:42 PM, "jakalad" > wrote: >> >>> I am not questioning the different stages, ndeed I find it most beneficial >>> to make bread in this manner as it suits my lifestyle. My query centres on >>> the consistency of the dough which, unfortunately in my case. proves too >>> wet to knead, I inevtiably end up adding a further 200 grams of flour to >>> get a manageable mix, >>> >>> As I explained I am more than happy with the end result and thank Ken for >>> the recipe but I am intrigued to know what I am doing wrong. >>> >>> Jak >> >> >> O.K. Which stage is too wet to knead? Day 1 has no kneading. Is the final >> dough too wet? Meaning after you've added the rye, the spelt, and the all >> purpose flour... And the salt. >> >> Will >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rec.food.sourdough mailing list >>> >>> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough > > Hi Will & Jak, > > Indeed, the finished dough is rather sticky. I knead it by machine (a > 20 qt. Hobart). By hand, it might be tough, but... > > If so, just mix it enough to be sure that there is no dry flour, > ferment it, and bake. It will taste great. > > All the best, Kenneth, I always wanted one of those beasts... Will |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 16:33:49 -0500, williamwaller
> wrote: >On 4/21/04 4:19 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote: > >> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:17:56 -0500, williamwaller >> > wrote: >> >>> On 4/21/04 12:42 PM, "jakalad" > wrote: >>> >>>> I am not questioning the different stages, ndeed I find it most beneficial >>>> to make bread in this manner as it suits my lifestyle. My query centres on >>>> the consistency of the dough which, unfortunately in my case. proves too >>>> wet to knead, I inevtiably end up adding a further 200 grams of flour to >>>> get a manageable mix, >>>> >>>> As I explained I am more than happy with the end result and thank Ken for >>>> the recipe but I am intrigued to know what I am doing wrong. >>>> >>>> Jak >>> >>> >>> O.K. Which stage is too wet to knead? Day 1 has no kneading. Is the final >>> dough too wet? Meaning after you've added the rye, the spelt, and the all >>> purpose flour... And the salt. >>> >>> Will >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> rec.food.sourdough mailing list >>>> >>>> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough >> >> Hi Will & Jak, >> >> Indeed, the finished dough is rather sticky. I knead it by machine (a >> 20 qt. Hobart). By hand, it might be tough, but... >> >> If so, just mix it enough to be sure that there is no dry flour, >> ferment it, and bake. It will taste great. >> >> All the best, > > >Kenneth, > >I always wanted one of those beasts... > >Will > > Hey Will, Who you callin' a "beast"...? Oh, maybe it's the Hobart. <g> I got the thing about 10 years ago and love it every day. When I first bought it, I wondered if it would be too large for my purposes, but as it turned out, it is just great. I have both the 20 qt. and 12 qt. bowl and tools. If you are tempted, I would tell you to go for it... All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
"Kenneth" > wrote in message ... snip > I got the thing about 10 years ago and love it every day. When I first > bought it, I wondered if it would be too large for my purposes, but as > it turned out, it is just great. I have both the 20 qt. and 12 qt. > bowl and tools. snip > Kenneth How small a batch of dough can you do with the 12 qt? How serviceable is it for smaller things? Can you do a batch of cookies? Or are you limited to doing larger batches of dough? My husband likes the idea of the 12 qt., but I am wondering about the practicality. Janet |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 17:18:31 -0600, "Janet Bostwick"
> wrote: > >"Kenneth" > wrote in message .. . >snip >> I got the thing about 10 years ago and love it every day. When I first >> bought it, I wondered if it would be too large for my purposes, but as >> it turned out, it is just great. I have both the 20 qt. and 12 qt. >> bowl and tools. >snip >> Kenneth >How small a batch of dough can you do with the 12 qt? How serviceable is it >for smaller things? Can you do a batch of cookies? Or are you limited to >doing larger batches of dough? >My husband likes the idea of the 12 qt., but I am wondering about the >practicality. >Janet > Hi Janet, In the 12 quart bowl I can knead a ball of bread dough that is about 500g (about a pound and a quarter) with no trouble. With regret, I can offer no information about cookies. I eat 'em, but I don't bake 'em... All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
"Kenneth" > wrote in message ... snip > Hi Janet, > > In the 12 quart bowl I can knead a ball of bread dough that is about > 500g (about a pound and a quarter) with no trouble. snip > All the best, > > -- > Kenneth Thanks. That gives enough information. Janet |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
Janet Bostwick wrote: > > > How small a batch of dough can you do with the 12 qt? How serviceable is it > for smaller things? Can you do a batch of cookies? Or are you limited to > doing larger batches of dough? Janet, If Kenneth's mixer is the same as the ones I recall from my days in the food business, the 12 quart bowl uses an adapter plate to fit in the arms of a 20 quart mixer. The stands were about 2 feet square, at least 20 inches. It did a fine job on small batches of mashed potatoes. There would certainly be enough power for cookies. I never used the small flat beater, but the 12 quart whip mixed small quantities without problems. Regards, Charles -- Charles Perry Reply to: ** A balanced diet is a cookie in each hand ** |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 03:16:49 GMT, Charles Perry >
wrote: > There would certainly be >enough power for cookies. Hi Charles, I believe that Janet's concern was the "other way around." She wanted to know if a small batch of cookies would sit in the bottom untouched by the beater... All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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Kenneth poilane - recipe
"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message = ... > > "Dick Adams" > wrote in message > > ... > > There is a possibility that dough which has been done wrong in one = way or > > another can recover in cold storage. > This is the first time I have heard anyone here venture this thought. = What > is your basis for this conjecture? My instinct tells me this is = wrong. > [ ... ] (Snippity do dah!) Well, for instance, see = http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/SF01/MakeSF01-3.html Another thing -- consider dough which has been underkneaded and = "retarded". that is, stored cool for a while. See Ed Bechtel's demonstration that = cooling dough for just 6 hours almost entirely wipes out the differences between kneaded dough on the one hand, and minimally kneaded dough on the other. That's at http://mysite.verizon.net/res7gfb9/Bread/Kneading.html Bread making is a process with many mutually-related variables. Time and = temperature are among the most influential, but there are dozens of = others which creep into our best-designed experiments. And, as proved above, interpretations of experimental results can vary significantly. : ) (And, of course, those deviant results could also be attributed to = contamination with whole grain flour, or impetuous kitchen faeries.) --- DickA |
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