Howdy,

For those of you who have tried my Poilne technique (and others who
might...)

I just did two of the loaves but did the entire second fermentation at
45F. In the last phase before the bake, the rise took about 15 hours.

The breads were even better. The crust more fully caramelized, more
spring in the oven, and a more complex taste.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

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"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
snip>
> I just did two of the loaves but did the entire second fermentation at
> 45F. In the last phase before the bake, the rise took about 15 hours.
snip
> Kenneth
Was the final long rise en couche? If so, how did you prevent excessive
drying-out of the dough surface in contact with the cloth?
Graham

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 06:27:53 GMT, "graham" > wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
.. .
>snip>
>> I just did two of the loaves but did the entire second fermentation at
>> 45F. In the last phase before the bake, the rise took about 15 hours.
>snip
>> Kenneth
>Was the final long rise en couche? If so, how did you prevent excessive
>drying-out of the dough surface in contact with the cloth?
>Graham
>

Hi Graham,

The final rise was in bannetons, so, yes, there was the possibility of
the (ultimately) upper part of the loaves drying out.

I did nothing about that possibility as this was the first time that I
tried this process with this particular loaf.

The results of the drying were beneficial:

There was a tougher "skin" on the top of the loaves visible when I
inverted them. The slash was much better as a result. When the loaves
baked the pattern on the top was deeper, and "rougher" looking.

In the past, when I have done other loaves in a similar way, I have
sometimes put the full bannetons in sealed plastic bags to prevent the
over-drying problem.

HTH,

--
Kenneth

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"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
....
> The final rise was in bannetons, so, yes, there was the possibility of
> the (ultimately) upper part of the loaves drying out.
....
> The results of the drying were beneficial:
>
> There was a tougher "skin" on the top of the loaves visible when I
> inverted them. The slash was much better as a result. When the loaves
> baked the pattern on the top was deeper, and "rougher" looking.
>
> In the past, when I have done other loaves in a similar way, I have
> sometimes put the full bannetons in sealed plastic bags to prevent the
> over-drying problem.
....
Kenneth, FWIW; I've been making a slightly modified version of your Poilne
for some time now. I've been letting them rise in my "wine cellar" at 50F.
The results have been outstanding! I guess I should have reported back to
the group...but I was loath to interrupt the minutia wars with actual
results...(:-)!

After reading so much about them here, I finally broke down, put my towels &
colander back on the shelf, and purchased several bannetons. The first ones
I bought were from Cost Plus, made in China, and pretty chintzy. The basket
was some sort of reed, and the cloth was...well, fuzzy and woven from street
sweepings would best describe it. At $4.95, the price seemed right...but in
the wrong way. The results were pretty good however, and convinced me that
this was the way to fly.

So last week I sprang for a couple of those Austrian made coiled wood
jobbies, ~$40 bux at a snooty kitchen supply store. They have NO cloth
liner. But the instructions said to just dust 'em with flour...which I did.
I've only made a few loaves so far, but they've been easy to use and no
problems.

Like Kenneth, I let the first ones "just go," w/o a moisture barrier, as I'd
never used that kind and the (very) brief instruction sheet that came with
them said nothing about that. They did fine! I found the slightly dried
out surface easier to handle and coup. I have another batch of dough that
will be ready for final rise in a few hours. I was going to do that one
with a barrier...to see what the difference would be.

I'll let you all know what happens...


Dusty
--
Remove STORE to reply

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 06:33:48 -0700, "Dusty"
> wrote:

>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
.. .
>...
>> The final rise was in bannetons, so, yes, there was the possibility of
>> the (ultimately) upper part of the loaves drying out.
>...
>> The results of the drying were beneficial:
>>
>> There was a tougher "skin" on the top of the loaves visible when I
>> inverted them. The slash was much better as a result. When the loaves
>> baked the pattern on the top was deeper, and "rougher" looking.
>>
>> In the past, when I have done other loaves in a similar way, I have
>> sometimes put the full bannetons in sealed plastic bags to prevent the
>> over-drying problem.
>...
>Kenneth, FWIW; I've been making a slightly modified version of your Poilne
>for some time now. I've been letting them rise in my "wine cellar" at 50F.
>The results have been outstanding! I guess I should have reported back to
>the group...but I was loath to interrupt the minutia wars with actual
>results...(:-)!
>
>After reading so much about them here, I finally broke down, put my towels &
>colander back on the shelf, and purchased several bannetons. The first ones
>I bought were from Cost Plus, made in China, and pretty chintzy. The basket
>was some sort of reed, and the cloth was...well, fuzzy and woven from street
>sweepings would best describe it. At $4.95, the price seemed right...but in
>the wrong way. The results were pretty good however, and convinced me that
>this was the way to fly.
>
>So last week I sprang for a couple of those Austrian made coiled wood
>jobbies, ~$40 bux at a snooty kitchen supply store. They have NO cloth
>liner. But the instructions said to just dust 'em with flour...which I did.
>I've only made a few loaves so far, but they've been easy to use and no
>problems.
>
>Like Kenneth, I let the first ones "just go," w/o a moisture barrier, as I'd
>never used that kind and the (very) brief instruction sheet that came with
>them said nothing about that. They did fine! I found the slightly dried
>out surface easier to handle and coup. I have another batch of dough that
>will be ready for final rise in a few hours. I was going to do that one
>with a barrier...to see what the difference would be.
>
>I'll let you all know what happens...
>
>
>Dusty

Hi Dusty,

I am pleased that you have been baking the Poilne breads...

You might consider the possibility of getting a piece of linen from an
art supply house. When put in any sort of basket, it really does the
job (without any street sweepings <g>)

Thanks again for your post,

--
Kenneth

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Hello Kenneth & all;
....
> I am pleased that you have been baking the Poilne breads...
Thank you. But it is *I* that was pleased that you posted that recipe. I
blended it with a bit of the good juu-juu from Samartha's website, and made
it fit into my schedual and needs...and have been baking outstanding bread
ever since...

>
> You might consider the possibility of getting a piece of linen from an
> art supply house. When put in any sort of basket, it really does the
> job (without any street sweepings <g>)
Yes. I had indeed considered doing that. It was just that before I did
that, I thought I'd see how using them as the instructions said (a rare
thing for me...(:-)!) would do. Besides, I was eager to get away from my
typical round loaves.

While I like 'em that way (round), they're harder to cut & store. If I cut
'em in half, and then slice cross-wise, they're a manageable size, but have
so much exposed surface that they dry out too quickly. The baskets I got
make narrower rectangular loaves (w/rounded ends). This is easier to carry
in the RV. Which is at the nexus of my goals...simplicity, excellent bread,
*and* portability...

Thanks again for a great recipe...

Dusty
--
Remove STORE to reply
....

"Kenneth" > in message =
said
to someone:

> I am pleased that you have been baking the Poil=E2ne breads...

Really, now? Hey, nobody but the Poil=E2ne bakeries are baking
the Poil=E2ne breads. Maybe someone bakes a reasonable=20
facsimile of a Poil=E2ne loaf. It would seem to require a bit
of arrogance to name one's loaves, or technique, Poil=E2ne.

On cold rising: assuming it is efficacious*, one possibility is that
a longer time for carbon dioxide to escape the doughloaf is provided,
thus that the doughloaf sours (and takes flavor) more before the
rise completes.

Manual deflation might accomplish the same thing (but might be
more hazardous).

Well, I see there is a break in the weather, and that it is an hour
later than I thought. I guess I will take a quick Lance-Armstrong=20
bicycle ride. When I get home, maybe I'll write a Carly-Simon=20
song.

--=20
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com =20
____________
* In my hands, it is not, except that the physical property of the dough
is changed, namely it becomes more like silly-putty.

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 06:27:53 GMT, "graham" > wrote:
>
> >
>"dickensian" snip:-)

> The results of the drying were beneficial:
>
> There was a tougher "skin" on the top of the loaves visible when I
> inverted them. The slash was much better as a result. When the loaves
> baked the pattern on the top was deeper, and "rougher" looking.
>
I've found that the tougher skin has been a bit more difficult to slash and
one often gets "ears" on the edge of the slashes.

> In the past, when I have done other loaves in a similar way, I have
> sometimes put the full bannetons in sealed plastic bags to prevent the
> over-drying problem.
>
I've sprayed the cloth of my cheap bannetons (cloth-lined baskets from IKEA)
with olive oil followed by a liberal dusting of rice flour to impede the
drying out and excessive skin formation. I also put the bannetons in a
plastic bag. However, I expect that a long cool rise would negate these
procedures.

Cheers
Graham

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:12:54 GMT, "graham" > wrote:

>I've found that the tougher skin has been a bit more difficult to slash and
>one often gets "ears" on the edge of the slashes.
>
>> In the past, when I have done other loaves in a similar way, I have
>> sometimes put the full bannetons in sealed plastic bags to prevent the
>> over-drying problem.
>>
>I've sprayed the cloth of my cheap bannetons (cloth-lined baskets from IKEA)
>with olive oil followed by a liberal dusting of rice flour to impede the
>drying out and excessive skin formation. I also put the bannetons in a
>plastic bag. However, I expect that a long cool rise would negate these
>procedures.
>
>Cheers
>Graham

Hi Graham,

Two thoughts:

The long rise in a sealed plastic bag invites mold (on the fabric.)
Also, I would be cautious using oils etc. on the fabric because at
some point, the oil might go rancid.

For years, I just floured the bannetons with AP flour, but then, at
some point, I switched to rice flour. The stuff is like Teflon!

All the best,

--
Kenneth

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