First off, I need a new starter. I moved a few years ago but sadly lost
my starter in the process. I got in a hurry and didn't do what I should
have done, which was make my starter into a drier levain so it'd survive
the trip better. So i'm still trying to get another one going. I've
made more than a few but just weren't happy with what I got. Mostly,
just really slow acting and really sharp flavor, if any.

I was told by a friend, who was a baker for years, that she had better
luck in my area( South-East NM) by adding grapes, or and other easy to
ferment fruit, to the first batch. But I have a question and hopefully
it won't sound too foolish.

The way I see it the wild yeast on grapes is probably a diffrent strain
than the one I want to make a good starter. I'm looking to make bread,
not wine. So, would I be better off just buying some rye flour and
trying again or would the grape idea be worth a shot. True, I'll
probably try the grapes just to see what I get but, I would like to end
up with something useable.

Thanks Y'all,
James

"The Bard" > wrote in message =
nk.net...

[ ... ]

> So, would I be better off just buying some rye flour and=20
> trying again or would the grape idea be worth a shot. =20

Why don't you just get a starter that is known to work?

Otherwise, why not try the grapes together with the rye?

--=20
Dick Adams
<firstname> dot <lastname>at bigfoot dot com

Hi James,

Please see my comments below, inline...



On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:33:23 GMT, The Bard >
wrote:

>First off, I need a new starter. I moved a few years ago but sadly lost
>my starter in the process. I got in a hurry and didn't do what I should
>have done, which was make my starter into a drier levain so it'd survive
>the trip better. So i'm still trying to get another one going. I've
>made more than a few but just weren't happy with what I got. Mostly,
>just really slow acting and really sharp flavor, if any.
>
>I was told by a friend, who was a baker for years, that she had better
>luck in my area( South-East NM) by adding grapes, or and other easy to
>ferment fruit, to the first batch. But I have a question and hopefully
>it won't sound too foolish.

Nothing "foolish" so far... <g>

>
>The way I see it the wild yeast on grapes is probably a diffrent strain
>than the one I want to make a good starter. I'm looking to make bread,
>not wine. So, would I be better off just buying some rye flour and
>trying again or would the grape idea be worth a shot. True, I'll
>probably try the grapes just to see what I get but, I would like to end
>up with something useable.
>
>Thanks Y'all,
>James

You intuition is supported by the science. That is, the grape yeasts
seem happier when fed grapes, and the grain yeasts seem happier when
fed grain. Rye flour works fine, and indeed, some find that it is
easier to start with rye. But things should work just fine with
whatever grain you choose to feed the started ultimately.

All the best,
Kenneth

Kenneth wrote:

> easier to start with rye. But things should work just fine with
> whatever grain you choose to feed the started ultimately.

As long as it's whole grain. White starters are a bit hard, I think.

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 12:14:24 -0500, Feuer > wrote:

>> easier to start with rye. But things should work just fine with
>> whatever grain you choose to feed the started ultimately.

>As long as it's whole grain. White starters are a bit hard, I think.

Freshly milled organic whole grain flour.

Mix in 25-50% organic whole grain rye flour. Hydrate to 100% with
distilled water. Close the container. It will activate from the
organisms in the flour alone - you do not need any airborn organisms.

Since I first tried this I have had success every time - we're talking
hours, not days. Yet when I tried it on regular packaged flour, even
King Arthur, I had no definitive success with wheat or rye, alone and
mixed. I couldn't even get those flours to activate when the container
was left open to the atmosphere. Is it possible they were sterlized
somehow to increase shelf life?

The use of freshly milled organic whole wheat was gleened from the
immortal pages of Ed Wood's book, Classic Sourdough. He won't take
sides on the matter of flour-only starters, but he did suggest how it
might be done. It worked for me.

I use wheat flour from the bin at Whole Food Market and rye flour in a
package made by Arrowhead Mills. An employee at WFM said they turn
over the wheat flour every week, so that is as close to freshly milled
as I can get. The rye is just a flavor additive as far as I am
concerned because it would not activate on its own.

Of the several flours I tried to activate, both open and closed
container, only one worked - the freshly milled organic whole wheat
flour from the bin at Whole Foods. I fed it by removing 50% and adding
that 50% back as equal amounts of flour and water, at 22, 7, 7, 6, 6,
6 hour intervals. The first time I fed it, it gushed to the top and
blew the lid off. That was one powerful starter.

I would like to think that it was the organisms in the flour and not
the environment that activated the starter. I have two reasons that
support that claim: 1) I was super cleanly; everything was treated
like a chemistry experiment; 2) I was unable to get several different
flours to activate when I did expose them to the atmosphere and
handled them with far less caution about sanitation.

HTH

[[ This message was both posted and mailed: see
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]

In article et>, The
Bard > wrote:

> So, would I be better off just buying some rye flour and
> trying again

Yes.

You may also wish to look at the URLs below.

<http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/shouldiuseanestablishedsta.html>
<http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html#sources>
<http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/howcanistartastarterfromsc.html>
<http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/howmuchstarterdoineedtokee.html>
<http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/howshouldifeedmystarterfor.html>
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-gro...sourdough/star
ters>
<http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/whatsallthisaboutnaturalle.html>

Cheers

Darrell

--
To reply, substitute .net for .invalid in address, i.e., darrell.usenet2 (at)
telus.net