Mexican Cooking (alt.food.mexican-cooking) A newsgroup created for the discussion and sharing of mexican food and recipes.

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Default Let's start checking for plaigiarism

I've done a few cut and pasts from a few of the recent posts and have found
many phrases and lists to be copies from other recipes posted in other
forums and sites on the internet. It may behoove us to check our own
contributions against this malady before risking being accused of copying,
without giving credit, others who actually developed the recipes.

If we give credit to those who actually developed the recipes it is not
considered plagiarism.

One recent recipe posted in this newsgroup is almost word for word from my
Mother's recipes published at the San Francisco YWCA when she was teaching
Mexican cooking. And it is clearly copyrighted.

Wayne


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Default Let's start checking for plaigiarism


"Wayne Lundberg" > wrote in message
...
> I've done a few cut and pasts from a few of the recent posts and have
> found
> many phrases and lists to be copies from other recipes posted in other
> forums and sites on the internet. It may behoove us to check our own
> contributions against this malady before risking being accused of copying,
> without giving credit, others who actually developed the recipes.
>
> If we give credit to those who actually developed the recipes it is not
> considered plagiarism.
>
> One recent recipe posted in this newsgroup is almost word for word from my
> Mother's recipes published at the San Francisco YWCA when she was teaching
> Mexican cooking. And it is clearly copyrighted.
>
> Wayne


Wayne, clearly you can do better than this, I but do notice you do not
reference anything, just cast wild ass dispersions. However your intent at
damage control is clearly noted.

I have to laugh here, Your buddy attempts a similar tactic and states a
"Lawyer" told him a job is a constitutional right deserving of "due process"
.. That was a good one and clearly not true. Now you are claiming your
momma had Recipe copyright. How funny this is. From what ? Century old
Mexican recipes?

Do me a favor, go make an appointment with a lawyer of your choice picked
from the yellow pages, pay your 250$ min. an hour to discuss it with this
lawyer or perhaps you should chose to get a free consultation with an
Ambulance chaser that advertises on the Early Morning TV, who consult with
you once and tell you he will do all that you want( his secretary will be
checking your credit rating and Mortgage out first) and then will run you
up to $1000 before he will again talk to you. Both however will tell you
that they will pursue a case to the best of there ability ( and your ability
to continue to pay) . Course 10000$ later you will then learn that Recipes
are not copyrightable, just the funny little cutesy stories that someone
write that introduce or surround them.

So Oh My! You a betting man? Now If it was not true, and you do not believe
me, well lets see the recipes your Momma used? Show us!

Do tell though the material she used to teach her classes and write her
recipes were taken from whom? Would they would be perceived as stolen
copyrighted material from those that she took them from. Do you not see
the picture painted here? You are supposed to be a college educated senior
citizen, Don't be claiming fowl about nothing you know nothing about. You
got the wrong tree to bark up

Wayne: Scene 27, take 15; Pan on Wayne when the reality of what was just
said sinks in.

Don't try to continue to smart this dumb thing up, OK.



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Default Let's start checking for plaigiarism

Wayne Lundberg wrote:

>
> One recent recipe posted in this newsgroup is almost word for word from my
> Mother's recipes published at the San Francisco YWCA when she was teaching
> Mexican cooking. And it is clearly copyrighted.
>
> Wayne
>
>



That recipe may have gone through a dozen people between your mother and
the newsgroup. How can you possibly decide who to blame for the plagiarism?

gloria p
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Default Let's start checking for plaigiarism


Puester wrote:

> That recipe may have gone through a dozen people between your mother and
> the newsgroup. How can you possibly decide who to blame for the plagiarism?


Technically, he may be right. Many of these recipes have been in the
public domain for 500 years, but they were translated into Spanish from
the original Nahuatl, lost for 400 years and then translated into
English by more recent writers of copyrighted cookbooks.

If all readers of this NG would go out and acquire a few good
copyrighted cookbooks, they could avoid the endless trolling and flame
wars of Usenet and they would actually learn some of the basics of
Mexican cooking without encountering self-important people who enjoy
trying to dominate strangers on the internet.

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Default Let's start checking for plaigiarism


The Galloping Gourmand wrote:

> If all readers of this NG would go out and acquire a few good
> copyrighted cookbooks, they could avoid the endless trolling and flame
> wars of Usenet and they would actually learn some of the basics of
> Mexican cooking without encountering self-important people who enjoy
> trying to dominate strangers on the internet.


It just makes good sense to attribute recipes from acknowledged authors
in a newsgroup where one is likely to get flamed ruthlessly for
"non-authentic" recipes. I have posted a recipe or two from Patricia
Quintana. Mentioning her name kept people from calling me an idiot (in
those cases) for posting a stupid recipe. Most respect her as a
Mexican chef. In my opinion, it's as important to know where a good
recipe is as it is to be able to cook it.

Jack



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Jack Tyler wrote:

> It just makes good sense to attribute recipes from acknowledged authors
> in a newsgroup where one is likely to get flamed ruthlessly for
> "non-authentic" recipes.


I shall ignore the thorns of "authenticity", and concentrate on
*authority*.

What do *reasonable* people expect, that Usenet users would have a PhD
in culinary arts, before they offer a recipe for discussion?

If the authority with a PhD has invested so much of his life in
acquiring an advanced degree, why would he post the information for
free. He could publish it in a book and get paid for it.

I frequently translate recipes from the local Spanish language
newspaper and post them for discussion if they seem interesting in any
way.

I google for previous postings of that recipe on this group before
submitting it. I look for examples of exact quotes in Spanish or
English on the web.

Chances are, if the recipe has been copied over and over, I will find
the exact same phraseology at several URL's.

I've translated recipes that were translated from Spanish to English
and back to Spanish again, and the editor of the cooking section never
bothered to attribute the recipe.

Sometimes I figured out later that it came from a cookbook by Elisabeth
Ortiz and was horribly garbled along the way.

Oh, well. I wasn't trying to *sell* Ortiz' work as may own.

The recipe Ortiz wrote down may have started out in the public domain
and it's fifth-hand material by the time I post it.

Many times, nobody ever comments on the recipe I posted, nobody ever
answers any question I may ask. My message is a lonely orphan.

Other times, I've gotten flamed for small inaccuracies. People will
write nasty things that they would never say to my face, and then turn
around and tell me that their idea of Mexican cooking is Malibu-Mex
Vegan.

Then we have users who act like the recipes they post were handed down
from Gawd Almighty, they take any comments as challenges to their
self-styled "authority".

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"The Galloping Gourmand" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Jack Tyler wrote:
>
> > It just makes good sense to attribute recipes from acknowledged authors
> > in a newsgroup where one is likely to get flamed ruthlessly for

---snip for brevity---

Great post. Sound thinking and on-target. Thanks for your feedback.

Wayne


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Default Let's start checking for plaigiarism


"Jack Tyler" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> The Galloping Gourmand pontificating:
>
>> If all readers of this NG would go out and acquire a few good
>> copyrighted cookbooks, they could avoid the endless trolling and flame
>> wars of Usenet and they would actually learn some of the basics of
>> Mexican cooking without encountering self-important people who enjoy
>> trying to dominate strangers on the internet.

>
> It just makes good sense to attribute recipes from acknowledged authors
> in a newsgroup where one is likely to get flamed ruthlessly for
> "non-authentic" recipes. I have posted a recipe or two from Patricia
> Quintana. Mentioning her name kept people from calling me an idiot (in
> those cases) for posting a stupid recipe. Most respect her as a
> Mexican chef. In my opinion, it's as important to know where a good
> recipe is as it is to be able to cook it.
>
> Jack


Absolutely Jack. From a food writer's, a journalist's or even a cook's
perspective, it is not only good sense, it is always been considered correct
to reference the source of a recipe, if known.

I believe, also like you do, that using knowledgeable persons like Quintana,
Ortiz, Kennedy, Bayless, the Jamisons, dissuades all but the most obnoxious
from using cherry picked "facts" or attempting to use the "Appeal to
Ignorance" approach which Segan refutes with his quote that the "absence of
evidence is not evidence of absence" ; i.e. I lived in or I traveled to
_____ for ____ years and I never saw___. {fill in the blanks}. Another of
my beliefs is to have a somewhat rudimentary knowledge of your source's
authenticity or credentials,( hence my initial discussion with you .

The link below contains some of the elements of copyright, ethics and
plagiarism that I have found to be true. As well I use the "rule of thumb"
that three major components or changes are required to be made to make a
recipe "yours". In my personal book I have say the Heirloom recipe and then
my version. If I have a reasonable belief that a recipe is public domain
and contains nothing unique, exciting or revolutionary , I will not usually
not bother to hunt down a recipe source. There are many authors and/or
publishers that overuse or misrepresent the copyright symbol as a blanket
scare tactic, which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010300316.html



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