Historic (rec.food.historic) Discussing and discovering how food was made and prepared way back when--From ancient times down until (& possibly including or even going slightly beyond) the times when industrial revolution began to change our lives.

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Old 08-02-2004, 04:09 PM
Home, Home On The Mu_n
 
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Default Diet Season is Over

Pastorio, have you sought counsel over your OBSESSIVE TROLLING of a
cardiology newsgroup?

========================================

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:06:47 -0500, Bob wrote:

Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

snip malice, braggadocio and commercial troll

The Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD FAQ
Version 1.01, January, 2004

Introduction
------------
New people arriving in sci.med.cardiology (SMC) are often puzzled and
troubled by the controversy surrounding the poster who posts as Dr.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (Dr. Chung) and want to know what the
controversy is about. This FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) attempts
to provide an answer.

The FAQ is arranged in typical FAQ form, i.e. a series of questions
and answers. For those who donít wish to read the whole FAQ, the
following summary is provided.

Summary
-------
Dr. Chung represents himself to be a licensed physician specializing
in cardiology. In this capacity he responds to medical questions on
SMC. If that were all he did, there would probably be no controversy.

The controversy arises from Dr. Chungís other behaviors on SMC, in
particular:

o He uses SMC to not only proselytize his particular interpretation of
Christianity, but also to disparage and attack anyone with a different
interpretation or different religion.

o He uses SMC to promote his unscientific Two Pound Diet (2PD) and, in
fact, cross posts this information to other groups in order to gain
more exposure.

o When challenged on the above issues, or one of his medical opinions,
he attacks his challengers as "obsessive anti-Christians", "libelers",
"homosexuals", "people who canít understand English", etc.

o When challenged he performs Internet searches on his challengers in
order to "get the dirt" on them and smear their reputations.

o When challenged, he answers with evasions, non sequiturs,
dissembling, rhetorical questions, quotes from the bible, religious
mantras, thinly veiled death threats, ad hominem arguments, and other
such disreputable, unethical, and unprofessional tactics.

o He is insufferably full of himself, claiming to have "the gift of
Truth Discernment" and to be "Humble" while behaving anything but humbly.

o He uses a foil who posts under variations of the name "Mu" to avoid
killfiles. Muís job is to troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a
reaction, to cross post the reaction to SMC so that Dr. Chung can
disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post. Whereas
Dr. Chung has to be somewhat careful what he says and so attacks
primarily through insinuation and innuendo, Muís tactics are blunt and
direct like those of a playground bully.

The above lists only the highlights of Dr. Chungís egregious behavior
on SMC. If anything, it understates it. Everything can be verified in
the Google archives.

The issue then arises: so what? As long as Dr. Chung provides free
medical advice on SMC, who cares what else he does?

Many people provide free medical advice on the internet. How does one
know whether it is good advice or bad advice? If the person giving the
advice is, or represents himself to be, a doctor shouldnít that be
enough? Unfortunately, no.

Medical education alone is not enough to guarantee good advice.
Knowledge must be tempered with judgment, impartiality, integrity,
ethics, and professionalism. If someone consistently demonstrates by
their behavior that they lack these qualities, how much credence
should be given to their medical advice?

People arrive in this group looking for help. For their own
protection, they deserve to know the quality of the person purporting
to dispense that help and not be lulled into a false sense of security
simply because someone displays an MD after their name. It is the
intention of this FAQ to provide people with enough information to
allow them to make an informed decision.

List of Questions Answered
--------------------------
1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD?
2. What is the Charter of SMC?
3. Arenít Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter?
4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... Whatís the Problem With That?
5. But itís Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature.
6. But Iím a Christian Too!
7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants?
8. But Isnít It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free Medical
Advice Out of the Goodness of His Heart?
9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on Usenet?
10. Wonít Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away?
11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who
Challenge Dr. Chung?
12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks?
13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This!
14. What is the Two Pound Diet?
15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"?
16. Who is Mu?
17. What is Muís Role?

1. Who is Dr. Andrew B Chung, MD/PhD?
--------------------------------------
The poster who posts as Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD claims to be a
licensed physician, practicing internal medicine in Atlanta, Georgia,
USA and specializing in cardiology. His signature contains a link to a
website which is consistent with his posts.

It should be noted that anyone can claim to be anyone on Usenet and so
caution is always advised. Indeed there are those who claim that the
poster in question is not Dr. Andrew B. Chung, or is not the Dr.
Andrew B. Chung listed in the Atlanta telephone directory, and/or has
lost his license and/or hospital privileges for misconduct. This FAQ
does not attempt to address those claims one way or the other. The
reader with an interest in these matters can easily find the relevant
discussions archived in Google Groups.

This FAQ deals with the poster who posts as Dr. Chung and restricts
itself to issues demonstrated by those posts. No position is taken on
his "true" identity.

2. What is the Charter of SMC?
----------------------------------
The purpose of this newsgroup is to establish electronic media for
communication between health care providers, scientists and other
individuals with interest in the cardiovascular field. Such
communications will provide quick and efficacious means to exchange
information and knowledge, and offer problems to solutions.

The sci.med.cardiology newsgroup will welcome participants who are
health care providers, trainees, researchers, students or recipients
with interest in the field of cardiovascular problems."

(ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.announc...med.cardiology)

3. Arenít Religious Discussions Covered by the Charter?
--------------------------------------------------------
What do you think?

4. So Dr. Chung is Religious... Whatís the Problem With That?
--------------------------------------------------------------
There is no problem with that. Most of the people who participate in
SMC are probably religious. However no one but Dr. Chung feels
compelled to characterize themselves as the "Humble Servant of God" in
their signatures, continually thank God for the opportunity to
"witness", question others about their religious beliefs, claim the
"Gift of Truth Discernment", etc.

When one person insists on introducing his personal religious
interpretations into the discussions, it naturally generates responses
from others who feel just as strongly that their viewpoints are
correct. The resulting debate easily swirls out of control, especially
given Dr. Chungís intolerant and dismissive attitude towards beliefs
which differ from his. The situation is further exacerbated by Muís
rabble raising from the sidelines.

There are over 160 Usenet groups dedicated to the discussion of
religion. Dr. Chung should take his beliefs to one of these and stick
to cardiology in SMC It is a simple matter of respect for others.

5. But itís Just a Little "Tag Line" in His Signature.
-------------------------------------------------------
No, it is not. He has even gone so far as to "investigate" someone
asking for advice about stents and accuse her of being anti-Christian.

6. But Iím a Christian Too!
----------------------------
Lots of people are Christians. There is a time and a place for
everything. SMC isnít the place to "witness" or recruit. In addition,
lots of other people are Jews, Moslems, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus,
etc. Would SMC be better or worse if they all emulated Dr. Chung in
their proselytizing and recruiting?

Furthermore, if you are a Christian, you should be appalled by Dr.
Chungís pharisaical, cynical, and manipulative use of Christianity. He
is truly a "whitened sepulcher", loudly proclaiming his adherence to
Christian values while overtly lying, carrying on smear campaigns
against others, making false accusations, dissembling, and marketing
his web site under the guise of altruism. He is "bearing false
witness" and true Christians should be concerned.

As an example, when John Ritter recently died unexpectedly, Dr. Chung
rushed to use this unfortunate event to market his web site. He showed
a total lack of Christian compassion for Mr. Ritter and his family,
even when challenged to do so.

As another example, he recently choreographed a smear campaign against
a poster who had criticized him. Dr. Chung found a homosexual author
with the same first name and then insinuated that the poster and
anyone who agreed with him were engaged in a homosexual relationship.
Ask yourself if this the brand of Christianity you identify with.

7. Well, Why Not Just Ignore His Religious Rants?
-------------------------------------------------- Why should one
individual be given carte blanche to violate the rights of everyone
else? Usenet is a community. It is up to the community to sanction its
members. There is nothing "ad hominem" about challenging inappropriate
and antisocial behavior.

8. But Isnít It Wonderful That Dr. Chung Offers This Free Medical
Advice Out of the Goodness of His Heart?
----------------------------------------------------------
First, it is only of value if it is good advice. Medical education
alone is not enough to guarantee good advice. Knowledge must be
tempered with judgment, impartiality, integrity, ethics, and
professionalism. If someone consistently demonstrates by their
behavior that they lack these qualities, how much credence should be
given to their medical advice?

Secondly, despite his protestations to the contrary, Dr. Chung is not
simply motivated by altruism. Every post of Dr. Chung's contains a
link to a website with the following quote:

"If you are looking for a cardiologist and reside in Georgia, please
consider me your best option for a personal heart advocate. Check out
my credentials and my background. Additional information is available
in the protected sections of this web site. Email me at
to me of your interest and I may send you
a temporary username and password to allow a preview. The more
information you email, the more likely my decision to send you a
temporary username and password. If you like what you see and learn
from this website and wish to confer with me about your heart, you or
your doctor should email me privately or call my voicemail at
404-699-2780 to schedule an appointment to see me at my *real*
office." (http://www.heartmdphd.com/office.asp)

Thirdly, Dr. Chung has repeatedly stated that one of his key
motivations for participating is SMC is to "witness" and win converts
to his religious beliefs.

9. How Does a Practicing Physician Find so Much Time to Spend on
Usenet?
------------------------------------------------------------------
An interesting question.

10. Wonít Challenging Dr. Chung Drive People Away?
--------------------------------------------------
Perhaps. But not challenging him will drive others away.

SMC is historically a "low traffic" group. Therefore, when Dr. Chung
misbehaves, he generates an apparently large response. This is
compounded by Dr. Chungís need to "get in the last word" and Muís
provocations. In spite of this, if someone has a question it will
usually be answered.

Dr. Chung is not the only participant who offers advice in SMC He is
not even the only doctor who participates in SMC However, the
controversy he generates and sustains often makes it appear that he is
the "only game in town".

Finally, Dr. Chung himself drives others away including other
physicians who leave in disgust after being verbally assaulted by him,
and other knowledgeable posters who point out where Dr. Chungís
medical opinion might be in error or at least not the only one
generally held. Anyone disagreeing with Dr. Chung on any subject can
expect a series of increasingly vitriolic attacks, including threats
of libel suits.

11. Doesn't the "Fault" for all Those Posts Lay With Those Who
Challenge Dr. Chung?
--------------------------------------------------------------
An interesting perspective: blame the victim. No other poster (with
the exception of Mu, of course) introduces religion or the Two Pound
Diet. How can it be acceptable for Dr. Chung to introduce these
topics, but not acceptable for others to respond?

In any thread, someone must, of necessity "get the last word". Dr.
Chung has amply demonstrated that he will not be outdone in this respect.

12. Why Do I see So Many "Ad Hominem" Attacks?
----------------------------------------------
You are probably referring to an "Ad Hominem" _argument_, which
attempts to disprove an adversary's fact by personal attack on the
adversary. An example would be "You are opposed to the Two Pound Diet
because you are anti-Christian".

When someone misbehaves, for example lies or distorts what someone
else is saying, it is not an "ad hominem attack" to call them on it.
It is a legitimate social sanction.

There are also, unfortunately too often, simple personal attacks and
insults on both sides. While we can all wish it weren't so, it is
simply human nature when an argument becomes heated or the other
person is obviously not arguing in good faith. If you are distressed
by this, see the next question.

13. I'm Sick of Seeing All This!
--------------------------------
There is no reason why you have to see it. Just as you can change the
TV channel if you don't like a show, you can killfile a poster or
thread you don't want to see. See the manual that came with your
Usenet reader for directions on how to do it.

Before you do this, however, you may wish to consider if a truer
picture of the world is not gained by seeing all that goes on - both
the good and the bad.

14. What is the Two Pound Diet?
-------------------------------
The Two pound Diet is a diet which Dr. Chung "invented". Itís only
rule is to restrict yourself to two pounds of food per day. Thatís it.
Doesnít matter if you are a 16 year old girl or an 80 year old man; a
5' 2" woman or a 7' man; a weight lifter or a mattress tester. Two
pounds. Thatís it. No more, less if you want. One size fits all.

Oh, and the food? Whatever you want: two pounds of lettuce, two pounds
of ice cream, two pounds of celery, two pounds of bacon, two pounds of
chocolate, two pounds of peanuts... doesnít matter. Mix and match.
Just keep it under two pounds.

Dr. Chungís claim is that this magical weight of food, this universal
gustatory constant will cause everyone to arrive at and maintain their
ideal weight. His scientific basis for this claim: none. The proof he
offers: none. Studies supporting this claim: none. Nutritional
explanation: none. Metabolic explanation: none.

And this from a doctor who expects people to take him seriously on
other issues.

15. Is Discussion of the Two Pound Diet "On Topic"?
---------------------------------------------------
Dr. Chung says it is because being overweight is a risk factor for
heart problems and therefore discussion of the Two Pound Diet is On
Topic. However criticism of the Two Pound Diet is Off Topic as is
discussion of any other diet.

As with religion, Dr. Chung takes every opportunity to introduce the
Two Pound Diet (2PD) into any other thread. In addition Mu trolls
other newsgroups, particularly the diet groups looking for
opportunities to introduce the 2PD in these groups and then cross post
the resulting discussion back to s.m.c so that Dr. Chung can
disingenuously claim to be "only responding" to a cross post.

Since Dr. Chung and Mu have been laughed off of these other groups and
have been asked repeatedly not to bring up the 2PD in them,
participants of these groups are understandably angered when it
happens yet again and, because of Muís cross-posting, all their anger
spills back into SMC

Another reason for ongoing 2PD discussions is Dr. Chungís habit of
researching anyone who criticizes the 2PD and then cross-posting his
responses back to other groups which the critic has been found to
frequent. He disingenuously claims that he does this as a
"convenience" to the critic, but his true reasons are transparent.
Once again, the cross-post generates a firestorm in SMC

The bottom line is that if the Two Pound Diet is "On Topic" for
anyone, it is "On Topic" for everyone... including it's critics. If it
is "Off Topic", it should not be continually re-introduced by Dr. Chung.

16. Who is Mu?
--------------
Mu is a longtime Usenet Troll who has even merited his own FAQ. He
postures as some kind of personal physical trainer, but who really
knows? He has allied himself with Dr. Chung and serves as the "Bad
Cop" in the Chung - Mu "Good Cop - Bad Cop" routine. He specializes in
the short, nasty one-liner and, because unlike Dr. Chung, he has no
reputation to protect, he can afford to be much more direct and offensive.

Mu parrots an even meaner-spirited version of Dr. Chungís
"Christianity" and does not hesitate to employ anti-Semitism and
homophobia in his attacks.

Naturally, most people would have long ago killfiled Mu, so he changes
his handle on an almost daily basis.

17. What is Muís Role?
----------------------
Muís role is to troll other newsgroups and, when he gets a reaction,
to cross post the reaction to SMC so that Dr. Chung can disingenuously
claim to be "only responding" to a cross post.

Mu is also responsible for pitching softballs to Dr. Chung so he can
hit them out of the park, and for re-introducing religion and the Two
Pound Diet should the discussion flag.

Finally, Muís role is to tirelessly wear down unsuspecting Dr. Chung
critics, deflecting the blows that would otherwise be aimed at Dr.
Chung. He is Dr. Chungís Internet equivalent of the "rope-a-dope".
Insults roll off him like water off a duck as do attempts to reason
with him or even have a civil discussion.

Most people have learned to ignore him and his comment is usually the
last one in any thread sub-tree where it appears.

Comments and/or corrections to this FAQ will be taken under advisement.



http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap960222.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

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