Historic (rec.food.historic) Discussing and discovering how food was made and prepared way back when--From ancient times down until (& possibly including or even going slightly beyond) the times when industrial revolution began to change our lives.

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Old 24-08-2007, 08:13 PM posted to rec.food.historic
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From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fat_Duck:

quote
As of March 2007 there are two menus; A la carte costs £80 per person and
the tasting menu costs £115 per person, excluding wine and an optional 12.5%
service charge.
/quote

Optional service charge? What are the options?

--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com



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Old 04-09-2007, 09:27 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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In article , Steve Wertz
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:13:43 +0300, Opinicus wrote:


Optional service charge? What are the options?


"Optional Service Charge" and "Discretionary Service Charge" are
becoming fairly common in England and some other parts of Europe.
It's my understanding that you either pay it or not. It's
usually added to your bill unless you specifically opt out of it.
The menu must state this.

For some reason 12.5% is standard. My guess is that's its a law
of some sort, and 12.5 is the max.

Looks like those Brits will be Americanized sooner or later ;-)

[Crossposted to rec.food.restaurants]

-sw


This is pretty well right, but I don't think that 'it's a law of some
sort.'. It's simply accepted practice that the work of paying the tip
is taken away. If you don't like the service, you cancel the service
charge. I've done this reasonably often.

12.5% is an average. Sometimes it might be 15, sometimes ten.

Service is a complicated thing in Europe. I've just come from England
(where it's normal, round 10-15% in posh restaurants, but non-existent
in bars) from Italy, where it doesn't really obtain, from Croatia,
where I wasn't in a position to know.

I've never been anywhere else with the very high, virtually compulsory
tips expected in the USA.

Lazarus
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Old 04-09-2007, 09:31 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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PS I've never eaten at the Fat Duck but I think that the notion that
any British restaurant belongs in the first hundred (or thousand) in
the world is as farcical as suggesting that any American one does.

L
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Old 05-09-2007, 04:31 AM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:31:02 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

PS I've never eaten at the Fat Duck but I think that the notion that
any British restaurant belongs in the first hundred (or thousand) in
the world is as farcical as suggesting that any American one does.


Well, since sewer workers seldom make enough money to dine at either the Fat
Duck or the French Laundry, your delusion is secure.

-- Larry
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Old 05-09-2007, 09:25 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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In article , pltrgyst
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:31:02 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

PS I've never eaten at the Fat Duck but I think that the notion that
any British restaurant belongs in the first hundred (or thousand) in
the world is as farcical as suggesting that any American one does.


Well, since sewer workers seldom make enough money to dine at either the Fat
Duck or the French Laundry, your delusion is secure.

-- Larry


I totally agree, Larry. In France or Italy or the middle east working
people can eat excellent food in excellent, cheap restaurants. Not in
the Anglophone world, I'm afraid.

Lazarus


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Old 06-09-2007, 06:09 AM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:25:39 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

In article , pltrgyst
wrote:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 21:31:02 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

PS I've never eaten at the Fat Duck but I think that the notion that
any British restaurant belongs in the first hundred (or thousand) in
the world is as farcical as suggesting that any American one does.


Well, since sewer workers seldom make enough money to dine at either the Fat
Duck or the French Laundry, your delusion is secure.

-- Larry


I totally agree, Larry. In France or Italy or the middle east working
people can eat excellent food in excellent, cheap restaurants. Not in
the Anglophone world, I'm afraid.

Lazarus



Well, not quite. Australia is Anglophone (or so it is believed). Their
working people can eat excellent food in excellent, cheap restaurants.
I've seen it.
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Old 06-09-2007, 11:58 AM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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I totally agree, Larry. In France or Italy or the middle east working
people can eat excellent food in excellent, cheap restaurants. Not in
the Anglophone world, I'm afraid.

Lazarus



Well, not quite. Australia is Anglophone (or so it is believed). Their
working people can eat excellent food in excellent, cheap restaurants.
I've seen it.


Occasionally perhaps, but not generally. I've had some of my most
miserable food experiences there. I remember working for a while in
somewhere (was it Port Lincoln?) which described itself as 'the tuna
capital of the world'. They caught lots of tuna there, sure, but it was
all immediately frozen and exported. There wasn't a single place that
served decently cooked fresh tuna.

This is unthinkable in a Latin country, or an arabic/farsi-speaking
country.

Lazarus
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:19 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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In article , Cape Cod Bob
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:09:07 +1000, wrote:

On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 21:25:39 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:

]
I totally agree, Larry. In France or Italy or the middle east working
people can eat excellent food in excellent, cheap restaurants. Not in
the Anglophone world, I'm afraid.

Lazarus



Nonsense. In the US any area around a college will have excellent and
inexpensive food - often a UN of ethnic choices.

In the hinterlands are many decent, down-to-earth restaurants and
diners serving super local specialties.
------------


I've had a few, but only a few, good, cheap meals made from fresh,
local, seasonal ingredients in the US. In states such as Mississippi
and Texas I've had to travel hundreds of miles to find anywhere that
wasn't serving fast food.

Whereas virtually every small town/large village even in remote regions
from Spain to to the Afghan border will have delicious, freshly made
meals, made with fresh local seasonal ingredients, probably served with
excellent bread freshly made by a local artisinal baker.

I'm not being nationalistic here - my own country's food is wretchedly
bad on the whole.

I think the 'UN of ethnic choices' is significant. Cities in the US &
England are full of 'foreign' restaurants, whereas they're
comparatively unusual in, say, Italy or Turkey, where people
concentrate on using fresh, local seasonal ingredients well.

Lazarus
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Old 06-09-2007, 04:36 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:19:02 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:


.... In states such as Mississippi
and Texas I've had to travel hundreds of miles to find anywhere that
wasn't serving fast food.


Where in Texas were you?

Unless you were entirely remote from civilization (hah!), it's hard to believe
you couldn't find decently made Tex-Mex within a few miles anywhere in Texas.

-- Larry


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Old 06-09-2007, 06:46 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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In article , pltrgyst
wrote:

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 12:19:02 +0100, Lazarus Cooke
wrote:


.... In states such as Mississippi
and Texas I've had to travel hundreds of miles to find anywhere that
wasn't serving fast food.


Where in Texas were you?

Unless you were entirely remote from civilization (hah!), it's hard to believe
you couldn't find decently made Tex-Mex within a few miles anywhere in Texas.

-- Larry


Hi Larry

I was based in Huntsville, where there was one of the best restaurants
I've come across in the entire USA - the Cafe Texan. Did brilliant
local meals at good prices, and was the first port of call every day
for those who were being released from the penitentiary. (It's the
world capital for executions.)

The trouble is... that was it. Everything else in town was abysmally
bad - mostly fast food joints, even though there was a college.
And when you went out and around in texas, it was the same string of
fast-fried frozen foods that we're all used to. For hundreds of miles.

In Clarkesville Mississippi (sorry if I spelt that wrong, but you must
admit it's a tricky one) I tried to find local food, and was told that
the nearest resaurant serving southern food was about ninety miles
away.

It ain't like that in my Algeciras-to-Afghanistan area.

Don't try looking for fast food joints in, say, Basilicata in Italy, or
in the remote islands of Croatia, or in inland Turkey. You'll be stuck,
even in the smallest village, with local, fresh, seasonal food, simply
but beautifully cooked.

I'm slightly concerned that those who disagree with me, from Australia
to America, are proud of their region but don't have that much
experience of eating regularly in remote areas in continents they
weren't born in.

I'm just waiting for a flood of posts from Egyptians, Lebanese,
southern Italians, and French people arguing that their own national
cooking is rubbish and that American, Australian, British and Irish
cuisines are much better.

When that comes I'll reconsider my view.

Lazarus
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:17 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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Lazarus Cooke writes:

In article , pltrgyst
wrote:

....
Where in Texas were you?

Unless you were entirely remote from civilization (hah!), it's hard to believe
you couldn't find decently made Tex-Mex within a few miles anywhere in Texas.

-- Larry


Hi Larry

I was based in Huntsville, where there was one of the best restaurants
I've come across in the entire USA - the Cafe Texan. Did brilliant
local meals at good prices, and was the first port of call every day
for those who were being released from the penitentiary. (It's the
world capital for executions.)


I did a gig in Huntsville a couple of years ago, and my host and his
henchman took us to the Cafe Texan. On his recommendation I had their
chicken-fried steak, which I'd had just once before, 20 years
ago or so, I think in Amarillo--at that time, because Clavin Trillin had been
raving about the dish for so long that I though I should give it a try. I
didn't like it then, and I didn't much like it in Huntsville, though I
am sure it was very good of its kind. The rest of the meal was,
however, memorably good (particularly green beans drenched in butter,
and pecan pie). I can't vouch for the "good prices", since I was
a guest (on the other hand, I know from my gig that my host is tight-
fisted, so I can't believe it was very expensive).

I was told that it's also the "first port of call" for all the
foreign journalists who come to town to cover the executions.
We were the only customers that evening, however.

The trouble is... that was it. Everything else in town was abysmally
bad - mostly fast food joints, even though there was a college.
And when you went out and around in texas, it was the same string of
fast-fried frozen foods that we're all used to. For hundreds of miles.


God knows that's true of the straight strech (which drove the next day) from
Huntsville to Austin. A small dip off the route would have taken us to College
Station, but I see no reason to believe that the Aggies have surround3ed
themselves with good eats.

I'm slightly concerned that those who disagree with me, from Australia
to America, are proud of their region but don't have that much
experience of eating regularly in remote areas in continents they
weren't born in.

I'm just waiting for a flood of posts from Egyptians, Lebanese,
southern Italians, and French people arguing that their own national
cooking is rubbish and that American, Australian, British and Irish
cuisines are much better.

When that comes I'll reconsider my view.


Lee Rudolph
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Old 06-09-2007, 07:35 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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Lee Rudolph a écrit :
Lazarus Cooke writes:

In article , pltrgyst
wrote:

....
I'm just waiting for a flood of posts from Egyptians, Lebanese,
southern Italians, and French people arguing that their own national
cooking is rubbish and that American, Australian, British and Irish
cuisines are much better.

When that comes I'll reconsider my view.


French cuisine ain't no rubbish, but it ain't cheap either. Here in
France we can find Subway, McDonalds, and a lot of kebab, but for fine
fresh local products you got to pay 15-20 $ at least (15% compulsory
service charge included)
--
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Chteau du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France
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Old 06-09-2007, 09:05 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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In article , Christophe
Bachmann wrote:

Lee Rudolph a écrit :

French cuisine ain't no rubbish, but it ain't cheap either. Here in
France we can find Subway, McDonalds, and a lot of kebab, but for fine
fresh local products you got to pay 15-20 $ at least (15% compulsory
service charge included)


salut Lee Rudolph.

I can't help feeling that you're nervously guarding your options (what
i believe, what I can say in public)

Tu (forgive me, but it's the internet) penses qu'on fait meilleur la
cuisine aux etats unis (?)qu' en france?

Et que vraiement quand tu arrives dans une petite villages dans les
montaignes, que tu vas manger mieux dans cette village aux etats unies
que dans une village francaise?

Probably filled with mistakes
but at least I tried.

Lazarus
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Old 06-09-2007, 09:20 PM posted to rec.food.historic,rec.food.restaurants
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In article , Lee Rudolph
wrote:

I did a gig in Huntsville a couple of years ago, and my host and his
henchman took us to the Cafe Texan. On his recommendation I had their
chicken-fried steak, which I'd had just once before, 20 years
ago or so, I think in Amarillo--at that time, because Clavin Trillin had been
raving about the dish for so long that I though I should give it a try. I
didn't like it then, and I didn't much like it in Huntsville, though I
am sure it was very good of its kind. The rest of the meal was,
however, memorably good (particularly green beans drenched in butter,
and pecan pie). I can't vouch for the "good prices", since I was
a guest (on the other hand, I know from my gig that my host is tight-
fisted, so I can't believe it was very expensive).


I was paying, so I know the prices were good. The food wasn't
wonderful, but it was decent, fresh and kind, and that was astonishing
in country where I felt that decent home cooking wasn't appreciated at
all. It seemed like, at least, a beginning.


I was told that it's also the "first port of call" for all the
foreign journalists who come to town to cover the executions.
We were the only customers that evening, however.

Were you not there for the executions? I can't think of any other
reason to go there.

The first evening I arrived there my contact, a clever, thoughtful,
intelligent young wonan, arrived hot and fresh at some awful burger
joint near the highway having just watched someone being turned off.

It turned me off my ( already unappealing) meal.


Lazarus


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