A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law, in
another town from where he lived.....all the while under the influence of
Halcion (sleeping drug)

He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.

He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this drug
anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric hospital).....its
definitely banned in England.

On Thu 09 Mar 2006 09:52:32p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it maureeng7eh?

> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law, in
> another town from where he lived.....

I think it's safe to assume many would like to. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

maureeng7eh wrote:
> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law, in
> another town from where he lived.....all the while under the
> influence of Halcion (sleeping drug)
>
> He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.
>
> He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this
> drug anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric
> hospital).....its definitely banned in England.

Cite the case law, please. I've taken Ambien and I certainly did remember
doing such mundane things as getting up to use the toilet in the middle of
the night. I'd definately recall having killed someone, so this is a farce
or lawyers tricks. Ambien makes you sleepy, it doesn't turn you into a
psychopathic killer. And you can buy over the counter sleep aids that make
you feel much more "muddled" when you wake up than Ambien does.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> maureeng7eh wrote:
>> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law, in
>> another town from where he lived.....all the while under the
>> influence of Halcion (sleeping drug)
>>
>> He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.
>>
>> He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this
>> drug anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric
>> hospital).....its definitely banned in England.
>
> Cite the case law, please. I've taken Ambien and I certainly did remember
> doing such mundane things as getting up to use the toilet in the middle of
> the night. I'd definately recall having killed someone, so this is a
> farce
> or lawyers tricks. Ambien makes you sleepy, it doesn't turn you into a
> psychopathic killer. And you can buy over the counter sleep aids that
> make
> you feel much more "muddled" when you wake up than Ambien does.

Regina v. Parks

I don't remember that he was on medication but I do remember the case very
well. 1987 -- He was sleepwalking, drove his car about 15 miles to his
in-laws' house and stabbed MIL to death & also stabbed his FIL, woke up
before he got back home and drove himself to the police station. He was
found "not guilty" of both murder and attempted murder a year later. The
case was appealed all the way to the Supreme Court where the verdict of 'not
guilty' was upheld in 1992.

You can read about it here, with a link to the Supreme Court decision.

Gabby

"Gabby" > wrote in message
...

> Regina v. Parks
>
> I don't remember that he was on medication but I do remember the case very
> well. 1987 -- He was sleepwalking, drove his car about 15 miles to his
> in-laws' house and stabbed MIL to death & also stabbed his FIL, woke up
> before he got back home and drove himself to the police station. He was
> found "not guilty" of both murder and attempted murder a year later. The
> case was appealed all the way to the Supreme Court where the verdict of
> 'not guilty' was upheld in 1992.
>
> You can read about it here, with a link to the Supreme Court decision.

OOPS, forgot to give the link

http://www.lakesidepress.com/pulmona...eep-murder.htm

Denny Wheeler wrote:

> So what does an incident involving Halcion have to do with Ambien?
> Apples and cabbage comparison there.

mmmmm...... sauteed red cabbage and apple slices........ :-)

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Denny Wheeler" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:49:25 -0400, "Gabby" >
> wrote:
>
>>Regina v. Parks
>
> So what does an incident involving Halcion have to do with Ambien?
> Apples and cabbage comparison there.

1. The original thread on Ambian had already gone off on a 'side effects of
different sleep aids' tangent. This was just one more.

2. In all I've read I haven't seen any reference to Parks having taken
Halcion. The entire defence was 'sleepwalking', a form of automatism.

Gabby

Gabby, thanks for coming to my defense - sorry if I incorrectly stated the
subject as Halcion instead of Ambient.

I was only making a comparison to a similar 'type' of drug prescribed up
here at one time.....I've taken Halcion so I know exactly what i'm talking
about. No memory whatsoever after about 20 minutes of taking the pill.

mg





"Gabby" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Denny Wheeler" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 06:49:25 -0400, "Gabby" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Regina v. Parks
> >
> > So what does an incident involving Halcion have to do with Ambien?
> > Apples and cabbage comparison there.
>
> 1. The original thread on Ambian had already gone off on a 'side effects
of
> different sleep aids' tangent. This was just one more.
>
> 2. In all I've read I haven't seen any reference to Parks having taken
> Halcion. The entire defence was 'sleepwalking', a form of automatism.
>
> Gabby
>
>

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:57:31 GMT, maureeng7eh wrote:

> Gabby, thanks for coming to my defense - sorry if I incorrectly stated the
> subject as Halcion instead of Ambient.
>
> I was only making a comparison to a similar 'type' of drug prescribed up
> here at one time.....I've taken Halcion so I know exactly what i'm talking
> about. No memory whatsoever after about 20 minutes of taking the pill.


News Flash: Sleeping pills mean.... you should go to sleep! Don't
try to drive a vehicle or engage in lengthy, meaningful conversations
after taking them.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

Gabby wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> maureeng7eh wrote:
>>> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law,
>>> in another town from where he lived.....all the while under the
>>> influence of Halcion (sleeping drug)
>>>
>>> He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.
>>>
>>> He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this
>>> drug anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric
>>> hospital).....its definitely banned in England.
>>
>> Cite the case law, please. I've taken Ambien and I certainly did
>> remember doing such mundane things as getting up to use the toilet
>> in the middle of the night. I'd definately recall having killed
>> someone, so this is a farce
>> or lawyers tricks. Ambien makes you sleepy, it doesn't turn you
>> into a psychopathic killer. And you can buy over the counter sleep
>> aids that make
>> you feel much more "muddled" when you wake up than Ambien does.
>
> Regina v. Parks
>
> I don't remember that he was on medication but I do remember the case
> very well. 1987 -- He was sleepwalking, drove his car about 15 miles
> to his in-laws' house and stabbed MIL to death & also stabbed his
> FIL, woke up before he got back home and drove himself to the police
> station. He was found "not guilty" of both murder and attempted
> murder a year later. The case was appealed all the way to the
> Supreme Court where the verdict of 'not guilty' was upheld in 1992.
>
> You can read about it here, with a link to the Supreme Court decision.
>
> Gabby

Not even sure Ambien was available as a sleep aid in 1987... we're talking
almost 20 years ago. And I have no idea what Ambien has to do with Halcion.

Jill

jmcquown wrote:
> Gabby wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> maureeng7eh wrote:
>>>> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law,
>>>> in another town from where he lived.....all the while under the
>>>> influence of Halcion (sleeping drug)
>>>>
>>>> He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.
>>>>
>>>> He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this
>>>> drug anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric
>>>> hospital).....its definitely banned in England.
>>> Cite the case law, please. I've taken Ambien and I certainly did
>>> remember doing such mundane things as getting up to use the toilet
>>> in the middle of the night. I'd definately recall having killed
>>> someone, so this is a farce
>>> or lawyers tricks. Ambien makes you sleepy, it doesn't turn you
>>> into a psychopathic killer. And you can buy over the counter sleep
>>> aids that make
>>> you feel much more "muddled" when you wake up than Ambien does.
>> Regina v. Parks
>>
>> I don't remember that he was on medication but I do remember the case
>> very well. 1987 -- He was sleepwalking, drove his car about 15 miles
>> to his in-laws' house and stabbed MIL to death & also stabbed his
>> FIL, woke up before he got back home and drove himself to the police
>> station. He was found "not guilty" of both murder and attempted
>> murder a year later. The case was appealed all the way to the
>> Supreme Court where the verdict of 'not guilty' was upheld in 1992.
>>
>> You can read about it here, with a link to the Supreme Court decision.
>>
>> Gabby
>
> Not even sure Ambien was available as a sleep aid in 1987... we're talking
> almost 20 years ago. And I have no idea what Ambien has to do with Halcion.

No, Ambien wasn't available in 1987, but what Ambien has to do with
Halcion is not a big stretch.

Halcion was once the most widely prescribed sleeper, like Ambien is now.
For a long time, the undesirable side effects of Halcion, especially
among the elderly (who received it almost universally in hospitals and
nursing homes) were ignored, like those of Ambien now.

In short, the human tendency to medicate itself into the appearance of
normality is no different now than it was then. The consequences are the
same, too.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> maureeng7eh wrote:
>> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law, in
>> another town from where he lived.....all the while under the
>> influence of Halcion (sleeping drug)
>>
>> He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.
>>
>> He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this
>> drug anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric
>> hospital).....its definitely banned in England.
>
> Cite the case law, please. I've taken Ambien and I certainly did remember
> doing such mundane things as getting up to use the toilet in the middle of
> the night. I'd definately recall having killed someone, so this is a
> farce
> or lawyers tricks. Ambien makes you sleepy, it doesn't turn you into a
> psychopathic killer. And you can buy over the counter sleep aids that
> make
> you feel much more "muddled" when you wake up than Ambien does.
>
> Jill

Of course, everyone has to have the exact same experience as you Jill. When
I stopped working 3rd shift and started working 1st shift I took Ambian to
help me get my sleep on track.
I have absolutely no memory of certain events and started exhibiting bizarre
behavior, i.e., waking up in the middle of the night and start cooking only
to find later that I had done it w/ no memory.
Check out the side effects .. but of course, since you didn't have some of
those side effects they must not exist and it's all the lawyers fault.
Drug co's are being found more and more to not be telling the truth about
the meds they make ...

Knit Chic wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> maureeng7eh wrote:
>>> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law,
>>> in another town from where he lived.....all the while under the
>>> influence of Halcion (sleeping drug)
>>>
>>> He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.
>>>
>>> He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this
>>> drug anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric
>>> hospital).....its definitely banned in England.
>>
>> Cite the case law, please. I've taken Ambien and I certainly did
>> remember doing such mundane things as getting up to use the toilet
>> in the middle of the night. I'd definately recall having killed
>> someone, so this is a farce
>> or lawyers tricks. Ambien makes you sleepy, it doesn't turn you
>> into a psychopathic killer. And you can buy over the counter sleep
>> aids that make
>> you feel much more "muddled" when you wake up than Ambien does.
>>
>> Jill
>
> Of course, everyone has to have the exact same experience as you
> Jill.

I never said such a thing; that is merely your perception. I was relating
my experience with Ambien. I surely do believe I'd remember murdering
people unless perhaps I was trippin' on some LSD or wigged out on crack.

When I stopped working 3rd shift and started working 1st shift
> I took Ambian to help me get my sleep on track.
> I have absolutely no memory of certain events and started exhibiting
> bizarre behavior, i.e., waking up in the middle of the night and
> start cooking only to find later that I had done it w/ no memory.
> Check out the side effects .. but of course, since you didn't have
> some of those side effects they must not exist and it's all the
> lawyers fault.

I didn't say that, either. But then again, I'm not a walking pharmacy with
tons of drugs in my system. I took Ambien for a short time; mostly I use
natural remedies like valerian root or valeriana tea or even chamomile tea.
Also a spritz of lavender on my pillow.

Jill

Sometimes I can drink and party all night. Then there is the rare time when
a glass of wine totally whacks me for a short while. Inevitably someone will
say "How can you be drunk on a glass of wine?" If I had an answer I probably
would have abstained in the first place. Maybe I am on the brink of a flu,
who knows? In the same light, maybe I could take Ambien safely for years
until it blindsides me too and I wake up in the lake.

How can you argue and judge another person's subjective experiences? Other
than a company rep, who the hell WOULD argue in defense of a chemical that
is in scientific dispute over another person's cautionary personal tale? So
a poster didn't murder his/her family, they only got up and cooked bacon and
eggs (a real account from a documentary I saw) without consciousness. The
murderer is not likely to be posting about it here. The cooker is freaked
out over it.

Manufacturers might say a bad effect only happens to one in a thousand.
Well, who do you think is going to post a warning, the 999 who weren't hurt?
It will be the extremely important one whose life may have been in jeopardy.
Talk about a minority POV, how much support are they going to get?

Other than for being OT, I can't figure why so many people are often so down
on the messenger(s) around here. It is obvious that often there is such a
reaction to the subject that it seems like the arguer has barely read the
OP. The weird part is that when they pounce it is usually rife with
extrapolated projection-based judgements like " ...but then I (implied:
unlike you) am not a walking pharmacy...I only take (long list of wholistic
flavored-waters) and a spritz of something that makes me sound politically
correct and all sweet but you not; along with the Ambien I take only when I
sorely need it because I am special." And "Without legal papers to support
it your experience does not matter."

Lefty

Life is for learning




"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Knit Chic wrote:
> > "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> maureeng7eh wrote:
> >>> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law,
> >>> in another town from where he lived.....all the while under the
> >>> influence of Halcion (sleeping drug)
> >>>
> >>> He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.
> >>>
> >>> He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this
> >>> drug anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric
> >>> hospital).....its definitely banned in England.
> >>
> >> Cite the case law, please. I've taken Ambien and I certainly did
> >> remember doing such mundane things as getting up to use the toilet
> >> in the middle of the night. I'd definately recall having killed
> >> someone, so this is a farce
> >> or lawyers tricks. Ambien makes you sleepy, it doesn't turn you
> >> into a psychopathic killer. And you can buy over the counter sleep
> >> aids that make
> >> you feel much more "muddled" when you wake up than Ambien does.
> >>
> >> Jill
> >
> > Of course, everyone has to have the exact same experience as you
> > Jill.
>
> I never said such a thing; that is merely your perception. I was relating
> my experience with Ambien. I surely do believe I'd remember murdering
> people unless perhaps I was trippin' on some LSD or wigged out on crack.
>
> When I stopped working 3rd shift and started working 1st shift
> > I took Ambian to help me get my sleep on track.
> > I have absolutely no memory of certain events and started exhibiting
> > bizarre behavior, i.e., waking up in the middle of the night and
> > start cooking only to find later that I had done it w/ no memory.
> > Check out the side effects .. but of course, since you didn't have
> > some of those side effects they must not exist and it's all the
> > lawyers fault.
>
> I didn't say that, either. But then again, I'm not a walking pharmacy
with
> tons of drugs in my system. I took Ambien for a short time; mostly I use
> natural remedies like valerian root or valeriana tea or even chamomile
tea.
> Also a spritz of lavender on my pillow.
>
> Jill
>
>

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Knit Chic wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> maureeng7eh wrote:
>>>> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law,
>>>> in another town from where he lived.....all the while under the
>>>> influence of Halcion (sleeping drug)
>>>>
>>>> He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.
>>>>
>>>> He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this
>>>> drug anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric
>>>> hospital).....its definitely banned in England.
>>>
>>> Cite the case law, please. I've taken Ambien and I certainly did
>>> remember doing such mundane things as getting up to use the toilet
>>> in the middle of the night. I'd definately recall having killed
>>> someone, so this is a farce
>>> or lawyers tricks. Ambien makes you sleepy, it doesn't turn you
>>> into a psychopathic killer. And you can buy over the counter sleep
>>> aids that make
>>> you feel much more "muddled" when you wake up than Ambien does.
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> Of course, everyone has to have the exact same experience as you
>> Jill.
>
> I never said such a thing; that is merely your perception.

I can no longer bring myself to have a battle of wits with an unarmed
person.
Best of luck to you ... go ahead and perceive that however you wish.

I was relating
> my experience with Ambien. I surely do believe I'd remember murdering
> people unless perhaps I was trippin' on some LSD or wigged out on crack.
>
> When I stopped working 3rd shift and started working 1st shift
>> I took Ambian to help me get my sleep on track.
>> I have absolutely no memory of certain events and started exhibiting
>> bizarre behavior, i.e., waking up in the middle of the night and
>> start cooking only to find later that I had done it w/ no memory.
>> Check out the side effects .. but of course, since you didn't have
>> some of those side effects they must not exist and it's all the
>> lawyers fault.
>
> I didn't say that, either. But then again, I'm not a walking pharmacy
> with
> tons of drugs in my system. I took Ambien for a short time; mostly I use
> natural remedies like valerian root or valeriana tea or even chamomile
> tea.
> Also a spritz of lavender on my pillow.
>
> Jill
>
>

Knit Chic wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Cite the case law, please. I've taken Ambien and I certainly did
>> remember doing such mundane things as getting up to use the toilet
>> in the middle of the night. I'd definately recall having killed
>> someone, so this is a farce or lawyers tricks. Ambien makes you
>> sleepy, it doesn't turn you into a psychopathic killer. And you
>> can buy over the counter sleep aids that make you feel much more
>> "muddled" when you wake up than Ambien does.

One anecdote does not final evidence make. It's just an anecdote.

> Of course, everyone has to have the exact same experience as you
> Jill. When I stopped working 3rd shift and started working 1st shift
> I took Ambian to help me get my sleep on track. I have absolutely no
> memory of certain events and started exhibiting bizarre behavior,
> i.e., waking up in the middle of the night and start cooking only to
> find later that I had done it w/ no memory.

My anecdote: I had exactly the same sort of experience a week ago. My
sleep schedule has been messed up because of deadlines and other things
that kept me moving for long and irregular hours. I took Ambien to try
to get to sleep and straighten out the schedule, and the next day felt
badly hung over. My wife told me things I had said that made no sense
(more than usual, apparently) and done (took cookies up to my office
when I have a self-imposed, no-food-in-the-work-space policy) about
which I had no recollection. She said she helped me undress and I had no
memory of that (and normally, I certainly would have). Didn't remember
getting into bed. And only slept 6 hours anyway.

I won't do that again. Money wasted. Scary time for her.

Pastorio

One time on Usenet, "maureeng7eh" > said:

> A few years ago, a man in eastern Canada killed his mother-in-law, in
> another town from where he lived.....all the while under the influence of
> Halcion (sleeping drug)
>
> He had absolutely no recollection of any of the events that night.
>
> He was found not guilty.......I don't think doctors prescribe this drug
> anymore in Canada (unless patient is in a psychiatric hospital).....its
> definitely banned in England.

Why did you title this thread "Ambien", when you're talking about
Halcion? Halcion (aka Triazolam) is a member of the benzodiazepine
class of drugs, many of which are used as tranquilizers. But Ambien
(zolpidem tartrate), is a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic of the
imidazopyridine class.

Or to put it in food terms, you're discussing apples and oranges -- no
comparison...


--
JJ (Jani) in WA
~ mom, Trollop, novice cook ~

"Jani - RFC" > wrote in message
...
> Why did you title this thread "Ambien", when you're talking about
> Halcion? Halcion (aka Triazolam) is a member of the benzodiazepine
> class of drugs, many of which are used as tranquilizers. But Ambien
> (zolpidem tartrate), is a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic of the
> imidazopyridine class.
>
> Or to put it in food terms, you're discussing apples and oranges -- no
> comparison...

I think the OP was picking up on another thread (OT: Wake up call!) where an
article on Ambian was blamed for an accident and various other sleeping aids
were brought into the discussion mostly in regard to their side effects.
AFA this case goes, I found no reference to Halcion or any other sleep aid.
The guy had a history of profound sleep and sleepwalking, as did other
members of his family.

Gabby