A little off-topic, perhaps, but I figured the quantity of participants
here will give me better breadth of replies.

I'm headed to Boston next week on a lightning visit. I'd like to find a
good bakery for *bread*, not pastries. (The French have it right - you
should have separate terms, "boulangerie" and "patisserie" for the 2 types
of establishments. Why does English lump them together?) It's proving
difficult to get any advance information because virtually all reviews,
travel guides, etc focus on patisseries virtually to the exclusion of
bread. So you'll find plenty of recommendations saying such-and-such a
place is excellent, then read and see them raving over cakes or pies or
eclairs or whatever.

When I think "good", too, I'm not thinking so much of a bakery that's a
standout for unusual, unique types of bread or a particularly broad
selection of breads with unusual ingredients. I'm looking for high-quality
basic breads - e.g. plain white French and Italian, straightforward brown
bread, ordinary rye, etc. I highly prefer breads not made in a sour style
(in Seattle sour-style breads are ubiquitous to the point of
monopolisation).

Any recommendations?


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
...
>A little off-topic, perhaps, but I figured the quantity of participants
> here will give me better breadth of replies.
>
> I'm headed to Boston next week on a lightning visit. I'd like to find a
> good bakery for *bread*, not pastries.
snip
> Alex Rast
>
> (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)
Why don't you post this over at alt.bread.recipes. One of the members is a
former baker who, I believe, until recently lived around Boston. They are a
friendly bunch over there and won't mind if you just pop in for a question.
Janet

"Alex Rast" wrote in message
...
>
> I'm headed to Boston next week on a lightning visit. I'd like to
> find a
> good bakery for *bread*, not pastries.
><SNIP>
> Any recommendations?
>

You might want to check out Fornax Bread Company in the Roslindale
section of Boston. It's right in Roslindale square. The address is:

27 Corinth St
Roslindale, MA 02131

I've never been to the bakery, but I've had their bread in a
restaurant. The last time I was in Boston I went to a restaurant and
some amazingly good bread was placed on the table. I asked about the
bread and was told it came for Fornax. The bread was sliced from a
large boule, had a nice tangy sourdough taste, and moist crumb and a
hearty crust. It was some of the best bread I've eaten.

Here's a link to an article about the bakery
http://www.dwellings.com/roslindale/....97fornax.html

I don't know where you'll be spending time in Boston, but Roslindale
is about as far from downtown as you can get and still be in Boston.
It will not be the easiest section of Boston to get to. If you have a
car Washington Street heading south will eventually get you to
Roslindale Square.

I plan on going to Fornax during my next visit.

Good luck,
-Mike

at Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:03:18 GMT in <3ONPf.10976$Tf3.937@dukeread09>,
(Mike Pearce) wrote :

>"Alex Rast" wrote in message
.. .
>>
>> I'm headed to Boston next week on a lightning visit. I'd like to
>> find a
>> good bakery for *bread*, not pastries.
>><SNIP>
>> Any recommendations?
>>
>
>You might want to check out Fornax Bread Company in the Roslindale
>section of Boston. It's right in Roslindale square. The address is:
>
> 27 Corinth St
>Roslindale, MA 02131
>
>I've never been to the bakery, but I've had their bread in a
>restaurant. The last time I was in Boston I went to a restaurant and
>some amazingly good bread was placed on the table. I asked about the
>bread and was told it came for Fornax. The bread was sliced from a
>large boule, had a nice tangy sourdough taste,

Unfortunately, that's not what I'm looking for. From my original post:

"I highly prefer breads not made in a sour style
(in Seattle sour-style breads are ubiquitous to the point of
monopolisation)."

Bummer. It sounds as if sour-style breads are now a fixture nationwide.

I do have to ask, what makes people go so wild over sour breads? I could
understand that a certain proportion of the population would like them, but
everyone? Can you explain why the extreme consensus?




--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

My wife and I like Bova's Bakery in the North End. They bake cookies,
but make very nice bread (and great sandwiches).

"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
...
>A little off-topic, perhaps, but I figured the quantity of participants
> here will give me better breadth of replies.
>
> I'm headed to Boston next week on a lightning visit. I'd like to find a
> good bakery for *bread*, not pastries. (The French have it right - you
> should have separate terms, "boulangerie" and "patisserie" for the 2 types
> of establishments. Why does English lump them together?) It's proving
> difficult to get any advance information because virtually all reviews,
> travel guides, etc focus on patisseries virtually to the exclusion of
> bread. So you'll find plenty of recommendations saying such-and-such a
> place is excellent, then read and see them raving over cakes or pies or
> eclairs or whatever.
>
> When I think "good", too, I'm not thinking so much of a bakery that's a
> standout for unusual, unique types of bread or a particularly broad
> selection of breads with unusual ingredients. I'm looking for high-quality
> basic breads - e.g. plain white French and Italian, straightforward brown
> bread, ordinary rye, etc. I highly prefer breads not made in a sour style
> (in Seattle sour-style breads are ubiquitous to the point of
> monopolisation).
>
> Any recommendations?
>
>
> --
> Alex Rast

I posted your question at the other group and this is the reply.
> Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> "An acquaintance is heading to Boston next week and is interested in good
>> breads, not sourdough and not pastries. Any recommendations?
>> Janet
>
> Buy ahead and carry with. Or find a Panera's.
>
> I'm overstating the case only slightly. There actually are a couple of
> places to get decent (not great) bread in Boston. However, you have to eat
> a restaurant meal--an expensive restaurant meal--in order to get the
> bread.
>
> The best independent bakery I know of in eastern Massachusetts is Nashoba,
> in West Concord, which is about a half-hour outside Boston and definitely
> not good enough to justify the drive (I worked nearby, so it was
> convenient for me).
>
> This has been a sore point for non-native foodies in Massachusetts for a
> long time. I'm not alone in this view. "
Janet

In article >, on Wed, 08 Mar
2006 22:19:43 -0000, Alex Rast wrote:

> I'm headed to Boston next week on a lightning visit. I'd like to find a
> good bakery for *bread*, not pastries.

Not in Boston, but about 30 miles north, is Annarosa's bakery in
Newburyport. Possibly the best bread I've ever had. Be warned - they
sell out early.

You might want to post your query to ne.food, as well as the Boston area
bulletin board at www.chowhound.com.


--
Seth Goodman

Another place where you will lots of answers from the locals:


http://www.phantomgourmet.com/


I love the Phantom Gourmet show.


Lisa

Alex Rast > wrote:
: at Thu, 09 Mar 2006 04:03:18 GMT in <3ONPf.10976$Tf3.937@dukeread09>,
: I do have to ask, what makes people go so wild over sour breads? I could
: understand that a certain proportion of the population would like them, but
: everyone? Can you explain why the extreme consensus?

It's called fashion, and it will pass.
But I will remain among the 'certain proportion'

--thelma
[who also likes Lindt 70% *because* it's dry and bitter]

: Alex Rast
:
: (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

"Louis Cohen" > wrote

> My wife and I like Bova's Bakery in the North End. They bake cookies,
> but make very nice bread (and great sandwiches).

I was wondering if someone would say look in the North End,
being it's the 'Italian section' of town.

nancy

"Alex Rast" < wrote in message
...
> (Mike Pearce) wrote :
>
>>"Alex Rast" wrote in message
>>>
>>> I'm headed to Boston next week on a lightning visit. I'd like to
>>> find a
>>> good bakery for *bread*, not pastries.
>>><SNIP>
>>> Any recommendations?
>>>
>>
>>I've never been to the bakery, but I've had their bread in a
>>restaurant. The last time I was in Boston I went to a restaurant and
>>some amazingly good bread was placed on the table. I asked about the
>>bread and was told it came for Fornax. The bread was sliced from a
>>large boule, had a nice tangy sourdough taste,
>
> Unfortunately, that's not what I'm looking for. From my original
> post:
>
> "I highly prefer breads not made in a sour style
> (in Seattle sour-style breads are ubiquitous to the point of
> monopolisation)."
>

I probably could have better worded my description of the bread. It
was not a San Francisco style sourdough. I consider SF sourdough
overly sour myself. I was trying to get across that it had the taste
of bread made with natural leavening (sourdough). Natuarly leavened
bread does not necessarily have to have a very sour taste.

> Bummer. It sounds as if sour-style breads are now a fixture
> nationwide.
>
> I do have to ask, what makes people go so wild over sour breads? I
> could
> understand that a certain proportion of the population would like
> them, but
> everyone? Can you explain why the extreme consensus?

You've got me. I'm not crazy about them either.

I've eaten lunch many times at the Nashoba Brook Bakery Janet
references in her post. The bread at Nashoba Brook is quite good, but
the bread I tried from Fornax was exceptional.

Thanks,
-Mike

at Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:59:11 GMT in <Q%jQf.11905$Tf3.4076@dukeread09>,
(Mike Pearce) wrote :

>"Alex Rast" < wrote in message
.. .
>> (Mike Pearce) wrote :
>>
>>>"Alex Rast" wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> I'm headed to Boston next week on a lightning visit. I'd like to
>>>> find a
>>>> good bakery for *bread*, not pastries.
>>>><SNIP>
>>>> Any recommendations?
>>>>
>>>I've never been to the bakery, but I've had their bread in a
>>>restaurant. The last time I was in Boston I went to a restaurant and
>>>some amazingly good bread was placed on the table. I asked about the
>>>bread and was told it came for Fornax. The bread was sliced from a
>>>large boule, had a nice tangy sourdough taste,
>>
>> Unfortunately, that's not what I'm looking for. From my original
>> post:
>>
>> "I highly prefer breads not made in a sour style
>> (in Seattle sour-style breads are ubiquitous to the point of
>> monopolisation)."
>>
>I probably could have better worded my description of the bread. It
>was not a San Francisco style sourdough. I consider SF sourdough
>overly sour myself. I was trying to get across that it had the taste
>of bread made with natural leavening (sourdough). Natuarly leavened
>bread does not necessarily have to have a very sour taste.

No, you conveyed the idea perfectly. It was I who wasn't exactly clear.
When I said I don't like a sour style I meant that I don't like *any* style
of, as you put it "bread made with natural leavening". (In other words,
bread wherein no yeast has been added). It's not just that I don't want a
*very* sour taste, I don't want a sour taste *at all*. The critical word
you used was "tangy". A tangy flavour is precisely what I'm not looking
for. Essentially all breads in this manner have at least a certain degree
of sourness.

One of the difficulties I have in conveying what I'm trying to say is the
very ubiquity of the sour style, such that for a great number of people,
"quality" or "good" are synonymous with "sour-style". This is my private
frustration - that so many make this identity so strongly that it's
difficult to get across the idea of a non-sour quality bread.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
...
snip
I was trying to get across that it had the taste
>>of bread made with natural leavening (sourdough). Natuarly leavened
>>bread does not necessarily have to have a very sour taste.
>
> No, you conveyed the idea perfectly. It was I who wasn't exactly clear.
> When I said I don't like a sour style I meant that I don't like *any*
> style
> of, as you put it "bread made with natural leavening". (In other words,
> bread wherein no yeast has been added). It's not just that I don't want a
> *very* sour taste, I don't want a sour taste *at all*. The critical word
> you used was "tangy". A tangy flavour is precisely what I'm not looking
> for. Essentially all breads in this manner have at least a certain degree
> of sourness.
snip
> Alex Rast
>
> (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Unfortunately for you, even those breads made with yeast may have a tang if
the bread is made in an artisanal style. The tang may develop if the bread
is not made in a straight dough style -- that is mix, rise, shape, rise,
bake. Many artisal breads have some stage of the rise retarded to develop
more of the grain flavor and this may also lead to some tang.
Janet

at Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:14:27 GMT in >,
(Janet Bostwick) wrote :

>
>"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
.. .
>snip
> I was trying to get across that it had the taste
>>>of bread made with natural leavening (sourdough). Natuarly leavened
>>>bread does not necessarily have to have a very sour taste.
>>
>> No, you conveyed the idea perfectly. It was I who wasn't exactly
>> clear. When I said I don't like a sour style I meant that I don't like
>> *any* style
>> of, as you put it "bread made with natural leavening". (In other
>> words, bread wherein no yeast has been added). It's not just that I
>> don't want a *very* sour taste, I don't want a sour taste *at all*.
>Unfortunately for you, even those breads made with yeast may have a tang
>if the bread is made in an artisanal style. The tang may develop if the
>bread is not made in a straight dough style -- that is mix, rise, shape,
>rise, bake. Many artisal breads have some stage of the rise retarded to
>develop more of the grain flavor and this may also lead to some tang.
>Janet

It may but doesn't have to. That's an aspect of style. I certainly use
retarded-rise myself all the time, and as you might expect the bread I make
doesn't taste sour at all. Unfortunately the label "artisanal" is entirely
arbitrary and in fact you see large corporate bakeries attaching that label
to some of their lines just as much as smaller ones can.

Updating the actual situation - In Boston I unfortunately didn't end up
being able to visit Clear Flour (the Boston College visit never happened so
I wasn't in the area) but I did manage to get to Bova's (it's conveniently
near downtown. Nice that it's open 24 hours - my visit was as much out of
the practical necessity to get something to eat at 10:30, with restaurants
shutting down as anything. One thing I like right away is that the shop is
unpretentious - all function and no fashion. This looks like a real working
bakery instead of some upscale yuppie affair. It's clear they focus more on
bread than pastries. The pastries looked relatively uninspired (compared
to, say, Essential Baking in Seattle). The breads looked considerably
better. In actual fact they were good but I can't quite say great. A bit
too fluffy for my personal preference. I'd have liked a denser, yeastier
flavour with more taste of the flour as well. Crust texture and crispness
was outstanding. Crumb as I say wasn't to my taste quite dense enough
although it had good gluten development. I would take them anyday, though,
over a sour-style bread. And for a 24-hour joint it can't be beat. At least
it's not your run-of-the-mill bread. Call it a 7 out of 10.

The North End must have a dozen bakeries within a very small area. You can
easily traverse the district in 30 minutes. It'd be fun to try them all.
Unfortunately scanning the phone book I can concur that on the whole
outside this one district the bread scene looks unpromising. I wish I'd had
the time to get to Clear Flour because in a very good sign in their entry
in the yellow pages they called themselves a "bread bakery". Specialists. I
like that.

Coffee, unfortunately, in Boston isn't up to the same standards as Seattle.
I'd have thought that the strong Italian ethnic character of the North End
would have given them some good espresso stores but the ones I tried just
didn't cut it. (I did get a recommendation but unfortunately was unable to
find the place referred to) Oh well. If you can't get good coffee in Boston
the same may be said of Seattle and pizza.


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)